Shams: Wall wants to be traded

[prime1time]

I can't defend Wall's 3 point shooting, which is obviously deficient, but I have no idea what he's done to improve.

But what's wrong with Bradley Beal? He was an elite 3 pt shooter, but the last 2 years he's dropped to 35.1 and 35.3%, which is below the league average of 36%. It's Beal's 3 point shooting we rely on, so it's more critical to find a solution for Beal's decline. Maybe it's just too much playing time. In any case, he's out there too much which has hurt his defense, and may be affecting his 3's.

One of the main reasons for BB's lowered 3pt % was the absence of John Wall. Few NBA players are better at creating open 3pt opportunities for teammates than Wall and Beal was often the beneficiary.

It's also true that Beal's heavy minutes and the double teams he faced game in and game out were factors. Wall's presence should help there as well.

More off the dribble 3's instad of uncontested set 3's. I'm fine with it.

People that follow sports are obsessed with a player's demise. They look for any drop in production or efficiency as the early pronouncement of the end. Let's be honest. Not only a Beal's struggles with his 3-point percentage not bad they are actually good, if not great because it means he's getting out of his comfort zone and expanding his game. A Beal that takes deep 3's off the dribble like Steph or Trae Young is far more valuable than who Bradley Beal was at the beginning of the career. The first Bradley Beal only spaced the floor when the ball wasn't in his hands. This Bradley Beal is trying to get to a point where spaces the floor with the ball in his hands. Forcing defenses to react to his pick and rolls aggressively. If the guy guarding the pick man has to stay even a split second longer to stop Beal from rising up for a deep 3, that now either generates a switch, an open diving roll man or an open spot-up 3-point shot. This is an aspect of the team the Wizards haven't had for years. Over the last 3 years, Harden has shot only 36% from 3. But he takes 12 threes a game! This is what Beal is trying to accomplish. And it also shows us why obsessing about percentages can create a distorted reality.

[pcbothwel]

BTW.. One team that I think we'll keep an eye on Wall...Clippers
He loves LA, they need a PG, and they arent afraid to spend a ton of money.
At the deadline, they'll have Morris (14.8M), Ibaka (9.3M), Pat Bev (13.3M), Lou Will (8M) as potential pieces for a Wall trade.

If he looks like he is back, but the tension/awkward play style is still there for him and Beal... I could see LAC making a move using Morris and Pat.

[Ruzious]

BTW.. One team that I think we'll keep an eye on Wall...Clippers
He loves LA, they need a PG, and they arent afraid to spend a ton of money.
At the deadline, they'll have Morris (14.8M), Ibaka (9.3M), Pat Bev (13.3M), Lou Will (8M) as potential pieces for a Wall trade.

If he looks like he is back, but the tension/awkward play style is still there for him and Beal... I could see LAC making a move using Morris and Pat.

That 4 year deal for Morris was the most... aggressive, shall we say, contract of this offseason. They did let Harrell go - and to the evil Lakers. Getting Ibaka was the better move, because you need that interior D in the playoffs.

[doclinkin]

BTW.. One team that I think we'll keep an eye on Wall...Clippers
He loves LA, they need a PG, and they arent afraid to spend a ton of money.
At the deadline, they'll have Morris (14.8M), Ibaka (9.3M), Pat Bev (13.3M), Lou Will (8M) as potential pieces for a Wall trade.

If he looks like he is back, but the tension/awkward play style is still there for him and Beal... I could see LAC making a move using Morris and Pat.

That 4 year deal for Morris was the most... aggressive, shall we say, contract of this offseason. They did let Harrell go - and to the evil Lakers. Getting Ibaka was the better move, because you need that interior D in the playoffs.

Also better chemistry since Ibaka is a good friend of Kawhi, and Trez is possibly one of the vocal malcontents who had issue with the newcomers changing the mix.

[Dark Faze]

The problem is if you don't bring back some semblance of a star with a Wall trade--chances are you'll never acquire one, which is why the Westbrook idea at least makes some sense despite scares regarding the fit. There's at least some outside chance that somehow someway Westbrook and Beal actually coexist. If it's just Beal and some mediocre roleplayers, I don't see how that's enough for him to extend.

[pcbothwel]

BTW.. One team that I think we'll keep an eye on Wall...Clippers
He loves LA, they need a PG, and they arent afraid to spend a ton of money.
At the deadline, they'll have Morris (14.8M), Ibaka (9.3M), Pat Bev (13.3M), Lou Will (8M) as potential pieces for a Wall trade.

If he looks like he is back, but the tension/awkward play style is still there for him and Beal... I could see LAC making a move using Morris and Pat.

That 4 year deal for Morris was the most... aggressive, shall we say, contract of this offseason. They did let Harrell go - and to the evil Lakers. Getting Ibaka was the better move, because you need that interior D in the playoffs.

Also better chemistry since Ibaka is a good friend of Kawhi, and Trez is possibly one of the vocal malcontents who had issue with the newcomers changing the mix.

Agreed... I think they would LOVE a Wall - Kennard - PG13 - Kawhi - Zubac lineup with Lou Will & Ibaka as the bench pieces...

But I really think thats a fall back plan. That Morris contract is awful even if Pat Bev would provide some grit.

I also think LAL gets in the mix with KCP and Schroder... but who knows

[nate33]

BTW.. One team that I think we'll keep an eye on Wall...Clippers
He loves LA, they need a PG, and they arent afraid to spend a ton of money.
At the deadline, they'll have Morris (14.8M), Ibaka (9.3M), Pat Bev (13.3M), Lou Will (8M) as potential pieces for a Wall trade.

If he looks like he is back, but the tension/awkward play style is still there for him and Beal... I could see LAC making a move using Morris and Pat.

Good idea!

Salarywise, it looks like it would have to include Lou Williams too. So the core of the deal would be Beverley + Williams + Morris for Wall. There's room there for us to throw in 1 or 2 vet minimum contracts to make the roster numbers work out. So figure Nato + Gill, which gives them cheap replacements for Williams and Morris.

What would be nicer still is if Morris could be flipped to a 3rd party for a smaller, shorter contract - like to Houston for Trevor Ariza (1 year $12.8M). In that scenario, we would effectively be dumping Wall for the expiring contracts of Williams and Ariza, and we'd be stuck with Patrick Beverley for one more year at $14.3M. He would at least be a culture changer and perhaps a useful trade chip down the line.

Obviously, such a deal would only be made if Beal agreed in principle (or if Beal was hinting that he is leaving no matter what). Perhaps Beal could be convinced when he is told that the deal would leave the team with a payroll of just $89M next summer. That's not quite enough for a max contract, but enough to throw $20-25M at someone.

[nate33]

The problem is if you don't bring back some semblance of a star with a Wall trade--chances are you'll never acquire one, which is why the Westbrook idea at least makes some sense despite scares regarding the fit. There's at least some outside chance that somehow someway Westbrook and Beal actually coexist. If it's just Beal and some mediocre roleplayers, I don't see how that's enough for him to extend.

It all depends on whether or not Beal is a realist. The team just doesn't have the talent base to make one big move for a star and compete for a championship. Any reckless attempt to do so prematurely is likely to put us in worse position down the road when perhaps we might have been poised for a run. I think Beal is smart enough to understand that.

So we can either trade Wall for Westbrook, and win 45 games instead of 42 and then watch chemistry implode while Westbrook hogs the ball, declines with age, and nobody else develops. Or we can trade Wall for salary relief, win 37 games instead of 42, but be in position to win more games in 2022 and 2023 as Avdija, Hachimura, Brown and Bryant develop, and we can utilize the cap room to add one or two more good players.

[pcbothwel]

The problem is if you don't bring back some semblance of a star with a Wall trade--chances are you'll never acquire one, which is why the Westbrook idea at least makes some sense despite scares regarding the fit. There's at least some outside chance that somehow someway Westbrook and Beal actually coexist. If it's just Beal and some mediocre roleplayers, I don't see how that's enough for him to extend.

It all depends on whether or not Beal is a realist. The team just doesn't have the talent base to make one big move for a star and compete for a championship. Any reckless attempt to do so prematurely is likely to put us in worse position down the road when perhaps we might have been poised for a run. I think Beal is smart enough to understand that.

So we can either trade Wall for Westbrook, and win 45 games instead of 42 and then watch chemistry implode while Westbrook hogs the ball, declines with age, and nobody else develops. Or we can trade Wall for salary relief, win 37 games instead of 42, but be in position to win more games in 2022 and 2023 as Avdija, Hachimura, Brown and Bryant develop, and we can utilize the cap room to add one or two more good players.

I want to be careful. Im not saying our young guys are Bam, Mitchell, Jaylen Brown, etc.... but our young guys are, objectively, VERY intriguing when you consider their age, production, skill set, and IQ/work ethic.

Bryant appears to be well on his way to Embiid, Prime Boogie, Vucevic, etc. quality offensive Center (We can dispute this, but given his current age, production, and motor/work ethic it would be unthinkable for him to not be a top 5-7 Center offensively).
I think his sheer size and motor will allow him to be an average defender in time, which means only 1 of Brown, Rui, or Deni need to break through to be being a high end starter/borderline AS to completely change the outlook for us.

That sounds like a huge lift and I wouldn't call it "Likely", but certainly feasible and believe there is a path to get an Otto-caliber player out of one of them.

[NatP4]

As much as I’d rather win games and enjoy watching the wizards, I’d love for Wall to come back and throw out some empty 30-15 games on 38% shooting and jump back into all the “Hes back” highlight videos. Couple months in, we trick some team into rolling the dice and going for the marketing value.

If Shepard can keep the toxicity levels down and move get Wall to play up out of the negative trade value range, and move him without giving up assets, that would be brilliant.

It would be one thing if we drafted a 19 year old PG or someone like Haliburton or had any young promising PG on the roster getting blocked from PT, but Neto and Smith and Winston are all just backup role player types.

Biggest downside is the fact that Bonga, Brown, and Avdija can all make plays with the ball and we know Brooks will be the idiot that he is and just let Wall and Beal deflate the ball and tell everyone else to stand in the corner and watch.

[nate33]

As much as I’d rather win games and enjoy watching the wizards, I’d love for Wall to come back and throw out some empty 30-15 games on 38% shooting and jump back into all the “Hes back” highlight videos. Couple months in, we trick some team into rolling the dice and going for the marketing value.

If Shepard can keep the toxicity levels down and move get Wall to play up out of the negative trade value range, and move him without giving up assets, that would be brilliant.

It would be one thing if we drafted a 19 year old PG or someone like Haliburton or had any young promising PG on the roster getting blocked from PT, but Neto and Smith and Winston are all just backup role player types.

Biggest downside is the fact that Bonga, Brown, and Avdija can all make plays with the ball and we know Brooks will be the idiot that he is and just let Wall and Beal deflate the ball and tell everyone else to stand in the corner and watch.

Yeah, the lack of a developing PG prospect is disappointing. And unfortunately, even if we did manage to dump Wall, I don't see any good, youngish PG's available in free agency either. If Wall is moved, I think I'd just play Brown at PG and hope that the combination of Brown, Beal, Bonga and Avdija sharing the playmaking duties in a distributed attack makes up for not having a pure PG. San Antonio has been doing it for years.

[Dark Faze]

I think all the little side comments and the gang sign stuff are all fairly minor in John's mind. The thing that probably kills/killed him was the Wiz looking to move him before he could even get a chance to show whether he's back or not. He probably wanted to play last year--and probably *should* have played. He was further injured through playing through injuries for the team, and hasn't been able to defend his current contract.

Long story short--the trade speculation was probably mostly nothing but due diligence on Tommy's part, and John overreacted.

The main question in my mind is what is Brad's perception about it? He's been sending subliminals through tweets, so he feels like one party pulled a clown move, but it's hard to say who he's siding with. Hopefully he's siding with John about the perceived slight of the organization engaging in talks to move him, otherwise I don't see how their relationship could really be mended.

[payitforward]

BTW.. One team that I think we'll keep an eye on Wall...Clippers
He loves LA, they need a PG, and they arent afraid to spend a ton of money.
At the deadline, they'll have Morris (14.8M), Ibaka (9.3M), Pat Bev (13.3M), Lou Will (8M) as potential pieces for a Wall trade.

If he looks like he is back, but the tension/awkward play style is still there for him and Beal... I could see LAC making a move using Morris and Pat.

Good idea!

Salarywise, it looks like it would have to include Lou Williams too. So the core of the deal would be Beverley + Williams + Morris for Wall. There's room there for us to throw in 1 or 2 vet minimum contracts to make the roster numbers work out. So figure Nato + Gill, which gives them cheap replacements for Williams and Morris.

What would be nicer still is if Morris could be flipped to a 3rd party for a smaller, shorter contract - like to Houston for Trevor Ariza (1 year $12.8M). In that scenario, we would effectively be dumping Wall for the expiring contracts of Williams and Ariza, and we'd be stuck with Patrick Beverley for one more year at $14.3M. He would at least be a culture changer and perhaps a useful trade chip down the line.

Obviously, such a deal would only be made if Beal agreed in principle (or if Beal was hinting that he is leaving no matter what). Perhaps Beal could be convinced when he is told that the deal would leave the team with a payroll of just $89M next summer. That's not quite enough for a max contract, but enough to throw $20-25M at someone.

The variant in which Morris is flipped would be appealing. If we have to pay the guy $64m over the next 4 seasons, however, I think I'd find it really difficult to agree to that. He is no better than his brother.

Definitely saves $$ of course. I wish I also thought it would help us do what we really need to do -- keep on rebuilding from the bottom up!

[nate33]

The main question in my mind is what is Brad's perception about it? He's been sending subliminals through tweets, so he feels like one party pulled a clown move, but it's hard to say who he's siding with. Hopefully he's siding with John about the perceived slight of the organization engaging in talks to move him, otherwise I don't see how their relationship could really be mended.

Hopefully, he is siding with the organization.

I'm much more worried about Beal's relationship with the Wizards than I am his relationship with Wall. The worst case scenario is that Beal leaves because he doesn't like the way the Wizards handled the Wall situation.

If Beal doesn't get along with Wall, that doesn't really bother me much. They're both smart enough to play well together and complement each other's skills on the court even if they don't like to hang out much off the court.

[nate33]

The variant in which Morris is flipped would be appealing. If we have to pay the guy $64m over the next 4 seasons, however, I think I'd find it really difficult to agree to that. He is no better than his brother.

I agree. I wouldn't make the deal if we were saddled with Morris' contract.

He IS better than his brother though. At least Marcus has a motor and generally tries hard on defense most of the time. There's a reason why multiple teams were looking to trade a 1st round pick for Marcus at the Trade Deadline while Markieff was signed off of waivers.

If Morris continues to play this season like he has the past 2 seasons, I think he could be flipped for a shorter contract. If not Ariza, then maybe Patty Mills, or James Johnson, or Kelly Olynyk.

[Dark Faze]

The main question in my mind is what is Brad's perception about it? He's been sending subliminals through tweets, so he feels like one party pulled a clown move, but it's hard to say who he's siding with. Hopefully he's siding with John about the perceived slight of the organization engaging in talks to move him, otherwise I don't see how their relationship could really be mended.

Hopefully, he is siding with the organization.

I'm much more worried about Beal's relationship with the Wizards than I am his relationship with Wall. The worst case scenario is that Beal leaves because he doesn't like the way the Wizards handled the Wall situation.

If Beal doesn't get along with Wall, that doesn't really bother me much. They're both smart enough to play well together and complement each other's skills on the court even if they don't like to hang out much off the court.

My thought is if John is good with Brad, then this incident with Tommy is mostly nothing, and we're back to business as usual of the future really being up to everyone's improvement and John getting back to where he was.

If it's the alternative, Brad has to be comfortable committing to an environment working with a guy who's relationship with him is degrading on top of the basketball stuff.

I guess I just feel its an easier ask for him to stick with the organization with option 1 than option 2, but I can see your viewpoint as well.

[nate33]

The main question in my mind is what is Brad's perception about it? He's been sending subliminals through tweets, so he feels like one party pulled a clown move, but it's hard to say who he's siding with. Hopefully he's siding with John about the perceived slight of the organization engaging in talks to move him, otherwise I don't see how their relationship could really be mended.

Hopefully, he is siding with the organization.

I'm much more worried about Beal's relationship with the Wizards than I am his relationship with Wall. The worst case scenario is that Beal leaves because he doesn't like the way the Wizards handled the Wall situation.

If Beal doesn't get along with Wall, that doesn't really bother me much. They're both smart enough to play well together and complement each other's skills on the court even if they don't like to hang out much off the court.

My thought is if John is good with Brad, then this incident with Tommy is mostly nothing, and we're back to business as usual of the future really being up to everyone's improvement and John getting back to where he was.

If it's the alternative, Brad has to be comfortable committing to an environment working with a guy who's relationship with him is degrading on top of the basketball stuff.

I guess I just feel its an easier ask for him to stick with the organization with option 1 than option 2, but I can see your viewpoint as well.

Yeah, I don't think we really disagree much in principle. We both want Beal to stay.

How we get to that outcome doesn't matter. I don't really care if Wall stays or goes - whichever scenario encourages Beal to stay works for me.

[WizarDynasty]

The main question in my mind is what is Brad's perception about it? He's been sending subliminals through tweets, so he feels like one party pulled a clown move, but it's hard to say who he's siding with. Hopefully he's siding with John about the perceived slight of the organization engaging in talks to move him, otherwise I don't see how their relationship could really be mended.

Hopefully, he is siding with the organization.

I'm much more worried about Beal's relationship with the Wizards than I am his relationship with Wall. The worst case scenario is that Beal leaves because he doesn't like the way the Wizards handled the Wall situation.

If Beal doesn't get along with Wall, that doesn't really bother me much. They're both smart enough to play well together and complement each other's skills on the court even if they don't like to hang out much off the court.

My thought is if John is good with Brad, then this incident with Tommy is mostly nothing, and we're back to business as usual of the future really being up to everyone's improvement and John getting back to where he was.

If it's the alternative, Brad has to be comfortable committing to an environment working with a guy who's relationship with him is degrading on top of the basketball stuff.

I guess I just feel its an easier ask for him to stick with the organization with option 1 than option 2, but I can see your viewpoint as well.

Yeah both of them appreciate one another. Wall gets worn out driving to basket every play and landing on the floor. Landing on the floor 20 times a game gets tired. And Beal i am sure gets tired of getting doubled teamed after being guarded tightly on the three point line. They both can rest and put that rest on the defensive end. Without defense, their offense means nothing, but they have learned that without each other, they have to expend all of their energy on offense and that leaves nothing for them on the defensive end during crunch time.

[doclinkin]

Yeah both of them appreciate one another. Wall gets worn out driving to basket every play and landing on the floor. Landing on the floor 20 times a game gets tired. And Beal i am sure gets tired of getting doubled teamed after being guarded tightly on the three point line. They both can rest and put that rest on the defensive end. Without defense, their offense means nothing, but they have learned that without each other, they have to expend all of their energy on offense and that leaves nothing for them on the defensive end during crunch time.

Finally a post about basketball and not about arch and kneebend. HOF

[DCZards]

Wall staying healthy and playing well upon his return is key to keeping Beal around and happy. From what I've seen and read, Wall's return--and he and Beal teaming up to form a formidable backcourt--is the primary thing that has given BB hope for any short-term success for the Zards as far as Ws & Ls are concerned.

If Wall is traded for unproven young players or draft picks (or if he doesn't play well when he returns), it will only expedite Beal's desire to go somewhere where he can win sooner rather than later.