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Shams: Wall wants to be traded

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Re: Shams: Wall wants to be traded 

Post#81 » by Shoe » Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:21 pm

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Re: Shams: Wall wants to be traded 

Post#82 » by JWizmentality » Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:29 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
TGW wrote:LOL ok John. Good luck with that boss.


This is about the best thing I’ve heard in a while.

Washington never won anything with Wall. A trade needs to happen.


We haven't won anything with anybody. :-?
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Re: Shams: Wall wants to be traded 

Post#83 » by nate33 » Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:02 pm

NatP4 wrote:Attach some mediocre assets and move on. Wall+Wagner+Robinson+Couple 2nds or something like that. Lets not go into the season with this dragging on.

It’s good for both sides. We need to turn the page and embrace the everybody eats culture with Beal as the leader of the team, and we pay Wall the respect of not making him stay in an awkward toxic situation, let him go jack up contested 17 footers and watch his new team play 4 on 5 defensively.

Sure. But who is taking the other side of that trade?
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Re: Shams: Wall wants to be traded 

Post#84 » by nate33 » Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:28 pm

I'd like to know the full story. Why exactly does Wall want to be traded? Is it just because there were trade talks with Houston about Westbrook? Is it because Sheppard and the team seemed mildly concerned when Wall flashed those gang signs?

These seem like fairly trivial issues to me. Sure, Wall may be somewhat unhappy, but it's not like most players are entirely happy in their situation, unless they're winning championships. Does Wall think a trade to Houston will make him happy? How happy was Chris Paul there? How happy was Westbrook?

It just doesn't seem like anything that has happened should be irreconcilable. I'd definitely wait before doing anything rash. Get out there and play some games and see what happens.
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Re: Shams: Wall wants to be traded 

Post#85 » by nate33 » Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:33 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
prime1time wrote:Just bite the bullet and move him for Westbrook. Playing hardball is silly.


I agree, 100%. Westbrook is the superior player. Should be a no-brainer.


Moving him for Westbrook was never an option. A straight up trade seems to be what the Wizards will willing to do, but then Houston started talking about the Wizards throwing in their lotto pick and other stuff.

Eff that. I'm not giving up value to turn Wall into Westbrook.

At this point Westbrook isn't a winning player. If your team is good, he takes too many shots away from better players and makes the team worse. If your team is bad and developing, Westbrook is a floor raiser who can get you to 40 wins, but in doing so, he'll take the ball away from other young players who need to develop while keeping you out of the top of the draft.

Basically, nobody wants Westbrook right now, except perhaps a team like NY who just needs to generate fan interest.

I'd trade Wall straight up for Westbrook I guess, just to get out of this uncomfortable situation. But I think even that trade hurts us. I think Wall is a much better fit for a team in this stage of development.
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Re: Shams: Wall wants to be traded 

Post#86 » by Ruzious » Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:40 pm

At least build up his value before trading him - and see if this is something he can change his mind about. Right now, we obviously could NOT trade him even up for Westbrook - we'd have to give up at least another significant asset... even with Westbrook being 2 years older, showing signs of deterioration, and being even more dependent on athleticism than Wall is. If this is really Beal's team, it's hard to see Westbrook coming here as something that fits in that plan. And they'd be putting Beal in the middle of this problem, because presumably they'd want to get his approval before making a move like that. Really, the Wiz organization needs a fixer to handle this situation. I doubt they have one.
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Re: Shams: Wall wants to be traded 

Post#87 » by prime1time » Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:44 pm

nate33 wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
prime1time wrote:Just bite the bullet and move him for Westbrook. Playing hardball is silly.


I agree, 100%. Westbrook is the superior player. Should be a no-brainer.


Moving him for Westbrook was never an option. A straight up trade seems to be what the Wizards will willing to do, but then Houston started talking about the Wizards throwing in their lotto pick and other stuff.

Eff that. I'm not giving up value to turn Wall into Westbrook.

At this point Westbrook isn't a winning player. If your team is good, he takes too many shots away from better players and makes the team worse. If your team is bad and developing, Westbrook is a floor raiser who can get you to 40 wins, but in doing so, he'll take the ball away from other young players who need to develop while keeping you out of the top of the draft.

Basically, nobody wants Westbrook right now, except perhaps a team like NY who just needs to generate fan interest.

I'd trade Wall straight up for Westbrook I guess, just to get out of this uncomfortable situation. But I think even that trade hurts us. I think Wall is a much better fit for a team in this stage of development.

If nobody wants Westbrook then no one wants Wall. Keeping Wall could destabilize everything we are trying to do. It's not a question of whether he's a better fit. The man demanded a trade.
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Re: Shams: Wall wants to be traded 

Post#88 » by nate33 » Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:56 pm

prime1time wrote:
nate33 wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
I agree, 100%. Westbrook is the superior player. Should be a no-brainer.


Moving him for Westbrook was never an option. A straight up trade seems to be what the Wizards will willing to do, but then Houston started talking about the Wizards throwing in their lotto pick and other stuff.

Eff that. I'm not giving up value to turn Wall into Westbrook.

At this point Westbrook isn't a winning player. If your team is good, he takes too many shots away from better players and makes the team worse. If your team is bad and developing, Westbrook is a floor raiser who can get you to 40 wins, but in doing so, he'll take the ball away from other young players who need to develop while keeping you out of the top of the draft.

Basically, nobody wants Westbrook right now, except perhaps a team like NY who just needs to generate fan interest.

I'd trade Wall straight up for Westbrook I guess, just to get out of this uncomfortable situation. But I think even that trade hurts us. I think Wall is a much better fit for a team in this stage of development.

If nobody wants Westbrook then no one wants Wall. Keeping Wall could destabilize everything we are trying to do. It's not a question of whether he's a better fit. The man demanded a trade.


You just made my point. Nobody wants Wall. Therefore we aren't trading him. I don't care if he demanded a trade.

We can't have this conversation in a vacuum. You have to consider what a John Wall trade would actually look like. Would you trade Wall plus our 2021 pick in a deep draft just for Westbrook (who has an identical contract)? Would you trade Wall and two future firsts for Griffin?

We shouldn't give away future lotto picks just to dump him. If he's that much of a cancer, then bench him. That's still better than sacrificing even more value to unload him.
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Re: Shams: Wall wants to be traded 

Post#89 » by NatP4 » Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:00 pm

For all his flaws, Westbrook is still one of the best players in the NBA. You’re trading dead cap space and a toxic situation for one of the top players in the league. My worry is that they want Thomas Bryant and that is why we signed Lopez. I’m not sure that I would do Wall+Bryant for Westbrook. Bryant is one of the most underrated players in the NBA and a core piece.
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Re: Shams: Wall wants to be traded 

Post#90 » by prime1time » Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:11 pm

nate33 wrote:
prime1time wrote:
nate33 wrote:
Moving him for Westbrook was never an option. A straight up trade seems to be what the Wizards will willing to do, but then Houston started talking about the Wizards throwing in their lotto pick and other stuff.

Eff that. I'm not giving up value to turn Wall into Westbrook.

At this point Westbrook isn't a winning player. If your team is good, he takes too many shots away from better players and makes the team worse. If your team is bad and developing, Westbrook is a floor raiser who can get you to 40 wins, but in doing so, he'll take the ball away from other young players who need to develop while keeping you out of the top of the draft.

Basically, nobody wants Westbrook right now, except perhaps a team like NY who just needs to generate fan interest.

I'd trade Wall straight up for Westbrook I guess, just to get out of this uncomfortable situation. But I think even that trade hurts us. I think Wall is a much better fit for a team in this stage of development.

If nobody wants Westbrook then no one wants Wall. Keeping Wall could destabilize everything we are trying to do. It's not a question of whether he's a better fit. The man demanded a trade.


You just made my point. Nobody wants Wall. Therefore we aren't trading him. I don't care if he demanded a trade.

We can't have this conversation in a vacuum. You have to consider what a John Wall trade would actually look like. Would you trade Wall plus our 2021 pick in a deep draft just for Westbrook (who has an identical contract)? Would you trade Wall and two future firsts for Griffin?

We shouldn't give away future lotto picks just to dump him. If he's that much of a cancer, then bench him. That's still better than sacrificing even more value to unload him.

Wrong, he needs to go. Because keeping sabotages the culture we are trying to create. The only other option is to tell him to stay home. But this is not realistic. You're not going to tell him to stay home for 2 years. I don't care about what we get back. I don't care for Blake Griffin, so I'm more so focused on dumping him for the minimum cost and moving on. Everything I've read says that the issue is even deeper than Wall wanting to be traded. It pretty much sounds like a Brad or Wall situation.
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Let me put it another way. It's Wall or it's Brad. Because keeping a disgruntled Wall will sabotage the season. So if you want to keep Wall and the assets it would take to move him, then you move Brad and go into a rebuild. Otherwise, you try to minimize the damage and move on.
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Re: Shams: Wall wants to be traded 

Post#91 » by WallToWall » Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:17 pm

As a 31 y.o. with some bad injuries, he is not a player you build a franchise around anymore. Hard truth. Wall has a couple more years left in the tank. Another hard truth. Look, the team paid him $$ to rehab and sit on the bench in street clothes. If he wants to turn his back on that, then that's on him. I'm a big fan of Wall, but he is in the wrong here. Demanding a trade, because he is no longer "the man", is not going to help him. This is an ego thing. Although I've proposed a couple trades, I don't support trading him for very negative value on a team building up. He can be the new Mahinmi - sit him at the end of the bench till his contract runs out. Frankly, that may be what he wants!
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Re: Shams: Wall wants to be traded 

Post#92 » by nate33 » Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:20 pm

prime1time wrote:Wrong, he needs to go. Because keeping sabotages the culture we are trying to create. The only other option is to tell him to stay home. But this is not realistic. You're not going to tell him to stay home for 2 years. I don't care about what we get back. I don't care for Blake Griffin, so I'm more so focused on dumping him for the minimum cost and moving on. Everything I've read says that the issue is even deeper than Wall wanting to be traded. It pretty much sounds like a Brad or Wall situation.


Okay. So you'd trade Wall plus three future 1sts for Nicolas Batum? Because that's the kind of trade it would take to "dump" him. Now, if he plays for a few months and shows that he's 95% of the old John Wall, then the price to dump him drops considerably. That's why we can't make a trade now.
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Re: Shams: Wall wants to be traded 

Post#93 » by Ruzious » Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:20 pm

Interesting - I see that's the narrative that Aldridge is pushing awfully hard right now, but had Aldridge ever said this before? And why can't things get resolved?

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Re: Shams: Wall wants to be traded 

Post#94 » by nate33 » Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:23 pm

prime1time wrote:Let me put it another way. It's Wall or it's Brad. Because keeping a disgruntled Wall will sabotage the season. So if you want to keep Wall and the assets it would take to move him, then you move Brad and go into a rebuild. Otherwise, you try to minimize the damage and move on.

Do you think Brad would be happy when you told him that we just traded away three future 1sts just to dump a contract?

Hey Brad: "The team you have (sans Wall) is the team you're going to have for the remainder of your career. We've got no future assets to get better."
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Re: Shams: Wall wants to be traded 

Post#95 » by Wizardspride » Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:27 pm

Ruzious wrote:Interesting - I see that's the narrative that Aldridge is pushing awfully hard right now, but had Aldridge ever said this before?

I've never heard Aldridge say this.

Not sure if he knows this for a fact or if it's just speculation/belief.
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Re: Shams: Wall wants to be traded 

Post#96 » by Ruzious » Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:29 pm

Wizardspride wrote:
Ruzious wrote:Interesting - I see that's the narrative that Aldridge is pushing awfully hard right now, but had Aldridge ever said this before?

I've never heard Aldridge say this.

Not sure if he knows this for a fact or if it's just speculation/belief.

It bugs me that he's saying it's so obvious and yet doesn't really explain why. That's not like Aldridge.
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Re: Shams: Wall wants to be traded 

Post#97 » by prime1time » Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:30 pm

nate33 wrote:
prime1time wrote:Let me put it another way. It's Wall or it's Brad. Because keeping a disgruntled Wall will sabotage the season. So if you want to keep Wall and the assets it would take to move him, then you move Brad and go into a rebuild. Otherwise, you try to minimize the damage and move on.

Do you think Brad would be happy when you told him that we just traded away three future 1sts just to dump a contract?

Hey Brad: "The team you have (sans Wall) is the team you're going to have for the remainder of your career. We've got no future assets to get better."

First it was two 1st's now it's 3 1st's. The reality is you have no clue what's on the market. But the writing is on the wall no? If we can't trade Wall and still keep Brad, then the Brad Wall era is over and we need to rebuild. Sometimes you are constrained by reality. Keeping Wall and have him adjust to not dominating the ball was always a pipe dream. I can't think of one player in history who had such a dramatic change. But yes the challenge facing Sheppard is great and one way or another it will likely be a defining moment for the organization.
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Re: Shams: Wall wants to be traded 

Post#98 » by dlts20 » Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:30 pm

nate33 wrote:I'd like to know the full story. Why exactly does Wall want to be traded? Is it just because there were trade talks with Houston about Westbrook? Is it because Sheppard and the team seemed mildly concerned when Wall flashed those gang signs?

These seem like fairly trivial issues to me. Sure, Wall may be somewhat unhappy, but it's not like most players are entirely happy in their situation, unless they're winning championships. Does Wall think a trade to Houston will make him happy? How happy was Chris Paul there? How happy was Westbrook?

It just doesn't seem like anything that has happened should be irreconcilable. I'd definitely wait before doing anything rash. Get out there and play some games and see what happens.

Trivial is people who can't relate to Wall judging him on some gang signs after all he's done in the community. That wasn't something to crucify the guy for.

Then people are comparing how he handles trade rumors compared to Beal when it's night and day. Beal handles them better because they are always positive rumors where he is seen as a star being brought in somewhere to win a championship and the Wiz won't get equal value in return.

Walls trades are in a negative light where we are trying to dump him by any means for a guy who has been a malcontent everywhere. This is after you have publicly been saying nothing but great things about Wall. I just think that he feels backstabbed and like a slap in the face.

There is nothing worse than performing for someone who you don't think wanted you. It's like it hurts you to suceeed. I think Wall felt full go and ready to dominate and now you changed his whole mindset. He hates the organization now and does not trust them. Hard to get someones best that way and it sucks because he's been all in this whole time. Now he's tuned out and probably only Beal can bring him back around
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Re: Shams: Wall wants to be traded 

Post#99 » by NatP4 » Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:31 pm

nate33 wrote:
prime1time wrote:Let me put it another way. It's Wall or it's Brad. Because keeping a disgruntled Wall will sabotage the season. So if you want to keep Wall and the assets it would take to move him, then you move Brad and go into a rebuild. Otherwise, you try to minimize the damage and move on.

Do you think Brad would be happy when you told him that we just traded away three future 1sts just to dump a contract?

Hey Brad: "The team you have (sans Wall) is the team you're going to have for the remainder of your career. We've got no future assets to get better."



It’s not going to take three 1st round picks to move Wall. They could simply move him for equally bad contracts and it’s a good move. It’s a culture related issue. It has to happen.
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Re: Shams: Wall wants to be traded 

Post#100 » by prime1time » Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:33 pm

dlts20 wrote:
nate33 wrote:I'd like to know the full story. Why exactly does Wall want to be traded? Is it just because there were trade talks with Houston about Westbrook? Is it because Sheppard and the team seemed mildly concerned when Wall flashed those gang signs?

These seem like fairly trivial issues to me. Sure, Wall may be somewhat unhappy, but it's not like most players are entirely happy in their situation, unless they're winning championships. Does Wall think a trade to Houston will make him happy? How happy was Chris Paul there? How happy was Westbrook?

It just doesn't seem like anything that has happened should be irreconcilable. I'd definitely wait before doing anything rash. Get out there and play some games and see what happens.

Trivial is people who can't relate to Wall judging him on some gang signs after all he's done in the community. That wasn't something to crucify the guy for.

Then people are comparing how he handles trade rumors compared to Beal when it's night and day. Beal handles them better because they are always positive rumors where he is seen as a star being brought in somewhere to win a championship and the Wiz won't get equal value in return.

Walls trades are in a negative light where we are trying to dump him by any means for a guy who has been a malcontent everywhere. This is after you have publicly been saying nothing but great things about Wall. I just think that he feels backstabbed and like a slap in the face

That's all well and true but the reality is that the league has left Wall behind. I said that 4 years ago, I said it 3 years ago and I'm going to say it again now. We should have traded Wall a long time ago. I understand his frustration but the deeper issue is that ball-dominant lead guard that can't shoot well don't win in the playoffs. It is that simple.

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