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Ive seen enough--Shep has to go

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payitforward
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Re: Ive seen enough--Shep has to go 

Post#61 » by payitforward » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:26 am

doclinkin wrote:
payitforward wrote:Overall, what I see is lack of any overall intention. They took what they thought was the BPA at #9 -- no problem, might have gotten lucky, might not work out. I can't see passing on him. Then they traded down from 37 to 53 for not much in return & for no obvious reason. We need a 3d string PG, so they picked one at #53 (luckily he was there).

I don't get it. & that in a nutshell is my problem with Tommy -- I can't figure out what his intentions are, what his strategy is, what he's trying to accomplish.

Can you?

Murmurs were Xavier Tillman and Cassius WInston are both represented by Beal's agent. I think they were hoping for XT, when he didn't fall they were fine taking whatever deal was on the table to pick up a future asset while still picking a hard working good guy who might otherwise have gone undrafted, as a gesture of good faith to Beal's agent.

As they say, "hope" is not a strategy." So, "hoping" Tillman would "fall" doesn't get it done, period. There was a path to getting him. Worse yet, if you think Winston would have gone undrafted, then why did they trade away the #37 pick? In order to acquire a R2 pick in 4 years? Trade up. Or maybe take a young prospect at the 2 (Ramsay?).

To put it another way: I'd a whole lot rather have Paul Reed coming in than Anthony Gill. Or Yoeli Childs. Reed went #58. Were we waiting for him to "fall" out of the draft? Would it have been hard to acquire a pick to use on him? Given how many changed hands that night?

As I say, what I would have liked to see was a FO with an actual plan. Not instead of getting lucky with Deni, but in addition to it.
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Re: Ive seen enough--Shep has to go 

Post#62 » by closg00 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:29 am

payitforward wrote:I can't keep a steady opinion of Tommy Sheppard for more than 5 minutes! So I understand every single post in this thread -- pro & con alike!

Signing Lopez is about as bad a move as one could imagine. At least it's only for one year.
Failing to sign Nerlens Noel was just awful.
Signing Neto is a solid decision.
Drafting Deni was great -- the best pick at that spot.
Trading #37 for #53 & an OKC R2 pick in 2024 was... ridiculous, insane, pointless.
Picking Winston with that #53 was a) lucky (that he was there) & b) an excellent decision
Signing Anthony Gill was... meh.
Signing Yoeli Childs was terrific.

So, there you are: 3 days work with more complicated stuff than I can follow!


This ^ is a fair take PIF
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Re: Ive seen enough--Shep has to go 

Post#63 » by Kanyewest » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:32 am

payitforward wrote:I can't keep a steady opinion of Tommy Sheppard for more than 5 minutes! So I understand every single post in this thread -- pro & con alike!

Signing Lopez is about as bad a move as one could imagine. At least it's only for one year.

Failing to sign Nerlens Noel was just awful.
Signing Neto is a solid decision.
Drafting Deni was great -- the best pick at that spot.
Trading #37 for #53 & an OKC R2 pick in 2024 was... ridiculous, insane, pointless.
Picking Winston with that #53 was a) lucky (that he was there) & b) an excellent decision
Signing Anthony Gill was... meh.
Signing Yoeli Childs was terrific.

So, there you are: 3 days work with more complicated stuff than I can follow!


Yeah- I have to admit I was upset about the signing as well calling it an overpay. I was having a discussion with one of my friends who thought it was a good signing and was arguing "what other centers were out there, the Wizards needed a backup center". I mentioned centers like Noel and he said they wouldn't choose to come Washington for the MLE. Well, Noel went to the Knicks for 5 million.
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Re: Ive seen enough--Shep has to go 

Post#64 » by DCZards » Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:01 am

prime1time wrote:Never got why people threaten to stop being fans. No one forces you. If you want to leave, you should leave. I was a Wizard fan before J Wall, I'll be a Wiz fan after J Wall and I'll be a Wizard fan when the Wiz and J Wall make-up and put this after him.

:nod:
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Re: Ive seen enough--Shep has to go 

Post#65 » by TGW » Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:16 am

Maybe if John changes his name to Juan Vällé, Shepherd might value him more.
Some random troll wrote:Not to sound negative, but this team is owned by an arrogant cheapskate, managed by a moron and coached by an idiot. Recipe for disaster.
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Re: Ive seen enough--Shep has to go 

Post#66 » by Ruzious » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:27 pm

Anyone old enough to remember John Nash's fatal blow to his GMship of the Bullets - when he said to Juwan Howard's agent - David "The Bird of Prey" Falk - that he would have picked Jason Kidd ahead of Howard if he was available? It was true - but so unnecessary to say - ruined the relationship with Howard via Falk who basically then forced the Bullets hand into giving Howard a franchise-limiting contract that they tried to get rid of for years. That's what comes to mind when hearing Tommy's completely true but so unnecessary to say comment about the team being built around Beal. Yes, it's childish of Wall to react the way he has, but Shepard's job requires him to be tactful in this situation - that's a minimum standard - MINIUMUM... just to be an adequate GM. If he didn't understand that, he's not adequate for the job. Like I said before - he's a boob.
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Re: Ive seen enough--Shep has to go 

Post#67 » by Ruzious » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:35 pm

doclinkin wrote:
Meliorus wrote:With Wall and Beal saying they don’t want to play with each other, it could become a him or me situation where Sheppard has to trade Wall to appease Beal.


They haven't said that. They have said the opposite all along. David Aldrige even in his tweet says that they openly say the opposite, that they want to play together, but that he himself believes differently because Wall is unhappy at the front office's lack of commitment to that plan, in both his attempt to trade him and them openly stating they are building around Beal and it is his team. He feels, rightfully, unwanted. He wants to go somewhere that wants him. Why not.

If anyone can find any quotes from both Beal and Wall indicating they can't play with the other - before Shepard saying this is Beal's team, please post them.
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Re: Ive seen enough--Shep has to go 

Post#68 » by Dark Faze » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:35 pm

It only takes one off-season like this to immediately see the wolf in sheep's clothing, which is exactly what Tommy is. We all wanted to think differently--he was and is forced to play by different rules than Ernie was--but the same general thought process is almost 1:1 Ernie Grunfeld: An overconfidence in their overseas scouting, free agent signings that seem to have not taken in analytics whatsoever, a failure to address glaringly obvious needs in order to focus on areas otherwise sufficient, etc.
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Re: Ive seen enough--Shep has to go 

Post#69 » by dckingsfan » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:07 pm

I am with PIF on this one - too much good to go with the bad and no "horrible" moves to figure Tommy out... yet.

The Wall situation and signing Lopez are very troubling.
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Re: Ive seen enough--Shep has to go 

Post#70 » by DCZards » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:30 pm

I’m going to judge Tommy on the young pieces that he’s added to the Zards roster since becoming GM…and not on stopgap players like Lopez and Neto. (Yes, I too would have preferred Noel to Lopez.)

I’m most interested in the development of Bonga, Rui and Mathews from last year’s class, and Deni, Winston and Childs from this year’s group. (From all accounts, the Zards got what is essentially another second round pick in Childs. I wanted to draft Paul Reed at 53 but Childs may end up being as good or better than Reed. We’ll see.)

Those 6 newcomers, along with Bryant and Brown, represent a nice young core that I’m looking forward to rooting for and, hopefully, watching them improve. How these youngins' turn out 3-4 years from now will be the real verdict on the moves that TS has made since taking over last year...at least that's how I see it.
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Re: Ive seen enough--Shep has to go 

Post#71 » by doclinkin » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:45 pm

DCZards wrote:I’m going to judge Tommy on the young pieces that he’s added to the Zards roster since becoming GM…and not on stopgap players like Lopez and Neto. (Yes, I too would have preferred Noel to Lopez.)

I’m most interested in the development of Bonga, Rui and Mathews from last year’s class, and Deni, Winston and Childs from this year’s group. (From all accounts, the Zards got what is essentially another second round pick in Childs. I wanted to draft Paul Reed at 53 but Childs may end up being as good or better than Reed. We’ll see.)

Those 6 newcomers, along with Bryant and Brown, represent a nice young core that I’m looking forward to rooting for and, hopefully, watching them improve. How these youngins' turn out 3-4 years from now will be the real verdict on the moves that TS has made since taking over last year...at least that's how I see it.


I'll judge him on the young pieces AND how he finesses the Wall situation. Being a GM is partly about player relations, and their agents, especially when it comes to your spotlight players who carry the heaviest burden.
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Re: Ive seen enough--Shep has to go 

Post#72 » by gesa2 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:56 pm

doclinkin wrote:
DCZards wrote:I’m going to judge Tommy on the young pieces that he’s added to the Zards roster since becoming GM…and not on stopgap players like Lopez and Neto. (Yes, I too would have preferred Noel to Lopez.)

I’m most interested in the development of Bonga, Rui and Mathews from last year’s class, and Deni, Winston and Childs from this year’s group. (From all accounts, the Zards got what is essentially another second round pick in Childs. I wanted to draft Paul Reed at 53 but Childs may end up being as good or better than Reed. We’ll see.)

Those 6 newcomers, along with Bryant and Brown, represent a nice young core that I’m looking forward to rooting for and, hopefully, watching them improve. How these youngins' turn out 3-4 years from now will be the real verdict on the moves that TS has made since taking over last year...at least that's how I see it.


I'll judge him on the young pieces AND how he finesses the Wall situation. Being a GM is partly about player relations, and their agents, especially when it comes to your spotlight players who carry the heaviest burden.

The relationship game is Tommy’s most talked about strength, it will be interesting to follow how he handles this
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Re: Ive seen enough--Shep has to go 

Post#73 » by DCZards » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:58 pm

doclinkin wrote:
I'll judge him on the young pieces AND how he finesses the Wall situation. Being a GM is partly about player relations, and their agents, especially when it comes to your spotlight players who carry the heaviest burden.

Agree.

I expect TS to, hopefully, work things out with Wall...at least to the point where Wallstar starts the season in a Zards uni.

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