2021 Draft thread. Woo! 15th pick here we come! Hoo. Ray.

[Dat2U]

Suggs has a gear he doesn't really have to use at Gonzaga but you can see it whenever he needs to go to it. He's got some Tyrese Haliburton in his game, cerebral and will make the right play but he asserts his will at the biggest moments and the elite athleticism to do so. He is definitely a winner. A guy I'd like running my team. A worthy #1.

Juzang looked like a lottery pick to me. I gotta know what has him only ranked 60th by draft express.

[Illuminaire]

I suspect Juzang's low draft projection is because all he does is score. And he doesn't always hit the shots he did tonight - he's 43% from the field over the season.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

Curious.... any thoughts on Timme ?

I don't know if he has a role in the modern NBA. He's a poor shooter who scores via a post-up game and excellent footwork. He's not a plus rebounder for his size. He's not a rim protector and there's little chance he could cover NBA guards if he had to switch.

It's too bad, because he's really good at what he does. Where do you think he could fit on an NBA team?

Yeah... I love watching him, he looks like he stepped through a time portal from the 70's, that moustache, his build & body shape, and the way he plays. He looks like some dude playing at the Y. But man he is so effective and so good at the college level. I'm guessing he's probably going to be a star player in Europe or Australia, and have a long career overseas.

[queridiculo]

Give me Cade or give me death, I'm firmly in the Mobley will bust camp.

[NatP4]

Wiz would probably struggle to beat Gonzaga with Beal out.

If they had Petrusev still, they would annihilate the wizards. Right now, Suggs would be the 2nd best player on the wizards.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I suspect Juzang's low draft projection is because all he does is score. And he doesn't always hit the shots he did tonight - he's 43% from the field over the season.

The reason I opened this thread this Easter Sunday. You guys are already discussing this dude.

Juzang, Mayer, and another dude, Sasser

Watch on YouTube

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Suggs has a gear he doesn't really have to use at Gonzaga but you can see it whenever he needs to go to it. He's got some Tyrese Haliburton in his game, cerebral and will make the right play but he asserts his will at the biggest moments and the elite athleticism to do so. He is definitely a winner. A guy I'd like running my team. A worthy #1.

Juzang looked like a lottery pick to me. I gotta know what has him only ranked 60th by draft express.

Suggs is better than Jason Kidd ... eventually, if he stays healthy. (Butchered verb tense, intentional)

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Give me Cade or give me death, I'm firmly in the Mobley will bust camp.

50/50

Cade could bust (Nah!) and Mobley (?)

The question mark starts with Q.

Q, what in the hell? queridiculo, I think there's L.T. which for math peeps means less than or <

I would say <2% chance Mobley busts. Greg Oden stuff would have to happen IMO for Evan Mobley to bust. I'm 98% confident he's not a bust, barring criminal, illicit drug use, or some other FREAKISH thing. Evan is JUST LIKE SUGGS, deferring how great he is.

No, he's going to be REAL GOOD. Possibly, ALL TIME GREAT GOOD.


https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/evan-mobley-1.html
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/james-wiseman-1.html
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/anthony-davis-5.html
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/chris-bosh-1.html
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/karl-anthony-towns-1.html

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/isaiah-mobley-1.html
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/naz-reid-1.html

Will revisit this when I have more time; but, for now I'm looking at stats from Evan, Wiseman (2019. only 3 NCAA games), AD (2012), Bosh (2002/3), and Karl-Anthony Towns (2015). I include the last two sort of for control and a baseline reference Isaiah Mobley (2020/2021) and Naz Reid (2019)

queridiculo, they're both STUDS. Neither will be a bust.

OPINION: Evan is a TREMENDOUS TALENT and probably, if not Suggs, is THE BEST player in this draft. Cade might average 33ppg with good passing as well. He's a cannot miss talent as well. Be ecstatic with any of the three. Cade would fit VERY NICELY on this Wizards team, too.

[NatP4]

How about Baylor just dominating a really good Houston team? Jared Butler was outstanding. Just controlled the game, elite shooting, great defense. 17-5-4 on 11 shots

And Joel freaking Ayayi. I will forsure rant about the greatness of Suggs later, but Ayayi was the reason Gonzaga won that game. 22 points on 12 shots, great defense, made all the little plays. Such a good player.

Both of these guys will go late 1st early 2nd, both will be really good NBA players.

[NatP4]

If you watched college basketball all year long, you know that Baylor and Gonzaga have been on a collision course. It’s going to be a game for the ages. Two of the best backcourts of all time.

Gonzaga has the better roster, but Macio Teague (Baylor) is the X factor.

[NatP4]

Suggs has a gear he doesn't really have to use at Gonzaga but you can see it whenever he needs to go to it. He's got some Tyrese Haliburton in his game, cerebral and will make the right play but he asserts his will at the biggest moments and the elite athleticism to do so. He is definitely a winner. A guy I'd like running my team. A worthy #1.

Juzang looked like a lottery pick to me. I gotta know what has him only ranked 60th by draft express.

Couldn’t have said it better myself. My favorite part about Suggs is that he’s a true freshman that has become the leader of a team full of upperclassmen, that have had a TON of previous success. Mark Few has complete and total trust in him.

He literally could’ve been playing quarterback at Notre Dame instead. He’s a special athlete and leader.

For awhile I thought he was just a really really good role player that would have a massively positive effect on winning, but after the last month, I fully believe that he’s a franchise level talent that has another prime Derrick Rose-like gear.

[nate33]

Give me Cade or give me death, I'm firmly in the Mobley will bust camp.

I think both Suggs and Cade will be effective, and they will be effective almost immediately, certainly by their second season.

I'm torn on Mobley. I love his agility and his economy of motion, but I really do worry about his lack of strength, girth, and rebounding. There is some small bust potential there, but I think it's unlikely. That said, I do think he will take a while before he becomes an effective NBA player. He might not provide much for his first 2-3 seasons unless his perimeter shooting turns out to be really good.

On the other hand, there is a real possibility that he pans out to be one of the rare big men that you trust on both ends of the floor late in games and in the playoffs. There's only about 5 of those guys in the league and if you have one, you are in real good shape.

[NatP4]

Mobley has no bust potential. He has the pogo stick leaping/finishing ability that we haven’t seen since Anthony Davis, and the ability to guard every position effectively and protect the rim at an elite level. Add in passing+shooting ability and you have the prototype for big men in today’s NBA.

The only questions about his game are whether or not he will simply be a sufficient rebounder or an elite one? And whether or not he has the alpha mentality like a Jalen Suggs?

His floor is an even better Myles Turner. Ceiling is higher than anyone in the draft or the past 5-10 drafts before this.

[Illuminaire]

Agreed with Nat. And as I noted a few pages back, Mobley grew quickly between high school and college. He's still settling into his body. Of course he lacks strength and some fine control!

He also only took up basketball as a serious sport 4-5 years ago. That does mean a longer development curve - I think Nate is correct on the time table - but it also means that what we see now is just the surface.

[FAH1223]

Yeah, I don't see the bust in Mobley. I think he'll actually be effective as a rookie because he can shoot and he can play defense. How effective is the answer because of his body still needing to fill out.

He definitely will be better in 3-4 years and a cornerstone of a franchise and a perennial All-Star.

I don't mind being patient with him. Wizards brass may not be because of Beal but I wouldn't give a damn.

[doclinkin]

Give me Cade or give me death, I'm firmly in the Mobley will bust camp.

I think both Suggs and Cade will be effective, and they will be effective almost immediately, certainly by their second season.

I'm torn on Mobley. I love his agility and his economy of motion, but I really do worry about his lack of strength, girth, and rebounding. There is some small bust potential there, but I think it's unlikely. That said, I do think he will take a while before he becomes an effective NBA player. He might not provide much for his first 2-3 seasons unless his perimeter shooting turns out to be really good.

On the other hand, there is a real possibility that he pans out to be one of the rare big men that you trust on both ends of the floor late in games and in the playoffs. There's only about 5 of those guys in the league and if you have one, you are in real good shape.

Zero chance he busts (with the usual health proviso). He's too smart, and is learning swiftly. Notice how late in the season the team discovered his passing ability, he had games of 7 assists against Arizona State, then 5 ast and 6 ast against Kansas and Oregon in the NCAA tourney. He sees the court so well. In the NBA he will have finishers to pass to, and outside gunners to keep teams honest instead of packing the paint. Even in the NCAA though with triple teams etc, he has NBA calibre footwork already, by instinct. He has a high center of gravity due to his legs being so long, but unlike many lanky looking players he uses the length of his legs to carve space. He takes Giannis width steps with unorthodox angles to step closer to his comfort range. And for all that you may think he is slim up top, he has powerful quads, using his legs for leverage to step between and through defenders to make space by stepping into their footwork

Check out his tournament. (Notable footwork at 5:10)

Watch on YouTube

The only issue here is that he may be best suited in the NBA as a KG/Tim Duncan power forward, best paired with a brute rebounder/finisher underneath. But his face-up game, passing out of the high post, driving around Bigs who follow him to the outside, playing the spaces between players and the timing game-- all mean that we can pair him with whatever utility big we can pick up.

HIs defense though is the one thing that you cannot teach. He has the thing you wish every player would have, but it seems especially rare in Bigs: he reads the floor well, has superior timing, makes the smart play. If James Wiseman had Mobley's smarts he would be a HOF candidate. Instead he is more of a danger to bust, despite perfect physical form for the position, due to slow processing and an inability to make proper use of his physical gifts. Usually defensive players struggle to adjust in the NBA not due to being bodied and outmuscled, yeah Embiid et al will push a guy like Mobley around to test him, but more because they reach and hack and goaltend and don't get the benefit of calls as a rookie. Maybe this makes Mobley tentative, but so far it seems like he has been adjusting swiftly and learning on the fly. He already defends with verticality and many of his steals are from reading the action not from reaching. Occasionally the box score credits him for steals on balls that are basically blocks where he retains possession. That and blocking or tap-rebounding to your teammate to start the transition break are two of the hardest skills for a Big. These he does by instinct. And since he plays as "Evan Mobility" on the outside, you can even pair him with a traditional big. Picture Mobley and Gafford on court together. Shotblockers on-ball and weakside both. On offense, an impossible to stop big-to-big lob option.

Yes we don't have the right staff and coaching here to nurture him. He would do best with smart players all around him who also anticipate the action well. But he has one of the rarest talents in the game: a sense of timing. We commonly discover BBIQ is the thing that elevates a player and sustains them throughout their career. Otherwise Luka Doncic would be another scrub. JaVale McGee would be a first ballot HOFer. Adjustments within a game, over the course of a season, and in the offseason, are where you build perennial all-stars.

I love a smart savvy guard, a tough leader. A 6'3" assassin. excellent. If that's who we draft, I'm good. And obviously if we draft a calm tough savvy 6'8" alpha scoring floor general who shows up big in late game late clock situations. Then Yes. I'm happy with Cade too. No question. He's one of the exact players we have needed. An assertive SF who actually wants the ball in his hands, plays defense, and can hit an outside shot. Awesome.

But picking a smart Big Man who plays both ends? One who is not lost in the Pick and Roll but actually drops to stay with a guard to stifle penetration. That's hard for me to pass up. The combo of smarts, athletic size and coordination are really tough to find. If you can select a Big who reads the floor well, yeah I'm taking him.

Same way I know whomever ends up with Neemias Queta is getting a steal. Again, with the usual health proviso. If we don't jump to the top 4, and get bumped to 7-9 or whatever, as usual I want to trade back, take a package that includes future picks, and land a guy like Queta who may be undervalued right now.

[NatP4]

Man, feel like I should have to pay a monthly fee for these Doc posts. Great stuff

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

How about Baylor just dominating a really good Houston team? Jared Butler was outstanding. Just controlled the game, elite shooting, great defense. 17-5-4 on 11 shots

And Joel freaking Ayayi. I will forsure rant about the greatness of Suggs later, but Ayayi was the reason Gonzaga won that game. 22 points on 12 shots, great defense, made all the little plays. Such a good player.

Both of these guys will go late 1st early 2nd, both will be really good NBA players.

I'm going from memory, (just turned 60) so here goes: Two really good players on the same NCAA team happens.

Jordan played with Kenny Smith, Sam Perkins, and earlier with James Worthy.
Rasheed Wallace and Jerry Stackhouse were on the same team and in the same draft.
UNLV had Larry Johnson, Greg Anthony, Stacey Augmon, and I'm forgetting another.
Villanova had Kyle Lowry and I'm getting unsure but I think Randy Foye on the same team.
Washington had Brandon Roy and another great player.
Mookie Blaylock IIRC also had great teammate on the same team.

Jared Butler is really great. He's going to be at the very least a solid, George Hill kind of NBA player IMO.

Davion Mitchell, however, APPEARS TO ME AT THIS TIME to be better. I find it hard to fathom but he's more disruptive and he can get his own shot.

Kind of reminds me of Romelo Trimble not making the NBA yet, while Yogi Ferrell has played several NBA seasons; despite Melo Trimble being the man in the B1G NCAA play. Trey Butler has figured out a role after early struggles. Seth Curry took a minute but he's an NBA player.

I THINK Davion Mitchell and Jared Butler will both be drafted NLT 20th in this draft. Their Final Four cache will earn them $$ and earlier draft selections.

I like their teammate Mayer. Teague can play as well. Their small ball C reminds me of Admiral Schofield, but he's not as offense-oriented.

[NatP4]

tomorrow night will be one of the best scouting opportunities of the year. Mitchell&Butler&Teague vs Suggs&Ayayi&Kispert. It really doesn’t get much better. You can compare the better perimeter defense from Suggs vs Mitchell. The off ball shot making ability of Ayayi vs Butler.

NBA talent gets you this deep in March, we should probably re-examine that UCLA team.

[doclinkin]

Davion Mitchell, however, APPEARS TO ME AT THIS TIME to be better. I find it hard to fathom but he's more disruptive and he can get his own shot.

Yeah, I like Davion Mitchell. He'd be a trade back target for me if we slipped or missed the top slots. If I could get him and Queta and a future pick, I'd feel great about this team. Queta reads to me like a 7' Draymond Green.

Would the Knicks want the #4-9 pick for their 15 and 21 and future considerations?

Watch on YouTube

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