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2021 Draft thread. Evan Mobley here we come! :)

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Re: 2021 Draft thread. Evan Mobley here we come! :) 

Post#1381 » by doclinkin » Mon Apr 26, 2021 3:06 pm

wall_glizzy wrote:Haven't been super involved in here so far, but did want to mention this guy Kessler Edwards from Pepperdine - liked him for last year's draft, but he returned for another year. He's old (by draft standards), and I have no idea how his hideous jumper has hit as consistently as it has through his college carreer, but it seems likely that he could be had in the mid-to-late second, which I think would be great value (especially for us, given our massive 3-and-D needs).

https://www.nbadraft.net/players/kessler-edwards/





So much arc on that shot. Ends up looking pretty. He may struggle a little extending the distance, but if he can that is a shot that will hit at the NBA level. Interesting player.
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Re: 2021 Draft thread. Evan Mobley here we come! :) 

Post#1382 » by Ruzious » Mon Apr 26, 2021 3:25 pm

NatP4 wrote:I can easily picture Giddey as a 15-7-7 guy on 45/38/75 shooting with above average defense from day 1 in the NBA. All the spacing and pace will only make him better.

It's hard for me to picture either way how his defense will hold up - as he's such an unusual instinctive player going against lesser competition now. Hopefully, he and LaMelo Ball will have a long competitive rivalry - coming from the same league and having many similarities.
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Re: 2021 Draft thread. Evan Mobley here we come! :) 

Post#1383 » by Kanyewest » Mon Apr 26, 2021 5:02 pm

Obligatory Villanova plug for Jeremiah Robinson Earl (15.7 ppg, 8.5 rpg, and 2.2 APG with a 56 TS% and a WS/48 of 0.187). Granted, I haven't seen him that high in mocks- mostly in the 2nd round. But he did sign with an agent early on in the process - and I have a feeling that some team did guarantee him a spot late in the first round given that he's a sophomore

JRE pros
- can defend multiple positions well- from the perimeter to the post
- very good post game, takes advantages of mismatches in the post, and makes good passes that often lead to secondary assists
- he did play point guard in high school and makes good passes
- High basketball IQ- all also has the highest GPA on the team

Cons
- Still needs to work on his 3 point range- regressed from 32% to 28%.
- His stats aren't super impressive although Villanova also had less talent than in recent years especially due to a couple injuries in their point guard position - certainly would have more assists on a better shooting team. The team also had to deal with Covid

Why JRE
- Villanova didn't have it's starting point guard in Colin Gillepsie - and even then they put up a better fight than Gonzaga did against Baylor with JRE as the best player and a depleted backcourt.
- Villanova also didn't have as many good outside shooters to help JRE excel
- Other true sophomores to leave early from Villanova include Kyle Lowry and Sadiq Bey (Donte Divencenzo as well but he was a red shirt freshmen)- like those players- I think JRE was due for a breakout season if he decided to stay at Villanova.

BTW- his agency represents
- Steph Curry, Giannis, Donte Divincenzo, and Satoransky. And in the WNBA, Elena Delle Donne
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Re: 2021 Draft thread. Evan Mobley here we come! :) 

Post#1384 » by NatP4 » Mon Apr 26, 2021 6:54 pm

I also think JRE is underrated.
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Re: 2021 Draft thread. Evan Mobley here we come! :) 

Post#1385 » by SUPERBALLMAN » Tue Apr 27, 2021 11:50 pm

nate33 wrote:The more I look at Moses Moody, the more I like him for this team. He is 6'-6" with a reported 7'-0" wingspan and has an ideal 3&D skillset. He also rebounds pretty well for his size and gets to the free throw line. He compares pretty well to Devin Vassell, only he is a freshman, not a sophomore. I think the team really needs a wiry 3&D type of guy who can defend 2's and 3's and take some of that responsibility off of Beal.



I wouldn't be surprised at all if we take Moody.

"of course I study Brad Beal’s game"

6-6 w/ 7-0 wing, 19 yrs old & exactly the skill set to match what this team wants from the 3 spot.


NBA DRAFT ROOM:

Draft Notes
Moody is an elite level three point shooter who is one of the best overall shooters in his class. He’s got an effortless release and is deadly accurate from downtown.

He’s young for his class but can hold his own against much older competition thanks to his great size for position and that sweet shooting stroke. He’s got broad shoulders and a solid frame which will carry more weight as he grows.

He’s much more than just a catch and shoot player. Moody plays a complete game, challenging on defense, holding his own as a rebounder and making plays in transition. He’s got a nice feel for scoring in the lane and a smooth mid range game.

Moody is developing the ability to be a primary ball handler and get his own shot and he’s a very willing passer who understands team concepts and doesn’t let the ball stick in his hands. His dribble drive game is not yet a strength but shows promise.

Comparisons
Allan Houston
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Re: 2021 Draft thread. Evan Mobley here we come! :) 

Post#1386 » by NatP4 » Wed Apr 28, 2021 6:17 pm

Nothing complete about Moody’s game. The guy is just about as one dimensional as any player in the entire write up. Moody is an off ball shooter. He doesn’t create for himself, he’s not an impact defender. He doesn’t have any elite feel for the game or competitive nature.

He’s highly touted because he can shoot 3s and has good measureables. That’s about it. Those traits might make him a solid NBA role player though.
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Re: 2021 Draft thread. Evan Mobley here we come! :) 

Post#1387 » by pcbothwel » Wed Apr 28, 2021 7:29 pm

NatP4 wrote:Nothing complete about Moody’s game. The guy is just about as one dimensional as any player in the entire write up. Moody is an off ball shooter. He doesn’t create for himself, he’s not an impact defender. He doesn’t have any elite feel for the game or competitive nature.

He’s highly touted because he can shoot 3s and has good measureables. That’s about it. Those traits might make him a solid NBA role player though.


Could not agree more. Im baffled by folks who think he is a lotto player. He's not quick or explosive (Laterally and vertically). Poor handle. Trouble finishing through contact/at the rim. Average spatial awareness and below average body control.
Reminds of Robert Woodard in some ways.

He'll play 10-12 years in the NBA, but I cant see him as a starter on a playoff team.
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Re: 2021 Draft thread. Evan Mobley here we come! :) 

Post#1388 » by Ruzious » Wed Apr 28, 2021 8:11 pm

SUPERBALLMAN wrote:
nate33 wrote:The more I look at Moses Moody, the more I like him for this team. He is 6'-6" with a reported 7'-0" wingspan and has an ideal 3&D skillset. He also rebounds pretty well for his size and gets to the free throw line. He compares pretty well to Devin Vassell, only he is a freshman, not a sophomore. I think the team really needs a wiry 3&D type of guy who can defend 2's and 3's and take some of that responsibility off of Beal.



I wouldn't be surprised at all if we take Moody.

"of course I study Brad Beal’s game"

6-6 w/ 7-0 wing, 19 yrs old & exactly the skill set to match what this team wants from the 3 spot.


NBA DRAFT ROOM:

Draft Notes
Moody is an elite level three point shooter who is one of the best overall shooters in his class. He’s got an effortless release and is deadly accurate from downtown.

He’s young for his class but can hold his own against much older competition thanks to his great size for position and that sweet shooting stroke. He’s got broad shoulders and a solid frame which will carry more weight as he grows.

He’s much more than just a catch and shoot player. Moody plays a complete game, challenging on defense, holding his own as a rebounder and making plays in transition. He’s got a nice feel for scoring in the lane and a smooth mid range game.

Moody is developing the ability to be a primary ball handler and get his own shot and he’s a very willing passer who understands team concepts and doesn’t let the ball stick in his hands. His dribble drive game is not yet a strength but shows promise.

Comparisons
Allan Houston

Odd scouting report in that it went on about him not being a 1 dimensional player, and yet the comparison was to Allan Houston - who was the classic 1 dimensional shooter of his era.
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Re: 2021 Draft thread. Evan Mobley here we come! :) 

Post#1389 » by nate33 » Wed Apr 28, 2021 8:37 pm

Ruzious wrote:
SUPERBALLMAN wrote:
nate33 wrote:The more I look at Moses Moody, the more I like him for this team. He is 6'-6" with a reported 7'-0" wingspan and has an ideal 3&D skillset. He also rebounds pretty well for his size and gets to the free throw line. He compares pretty well to Devin Vassell, only he is a freshman, not a sophomore. I think the team really needs a wiry 3&D type of guy who can defend 2's and 3's and take some of that responsibility off of Beal.



I wouldn't be surprised at all if we take Moody.

"of course I study Brad Beal’s game"

6-6 w/ 7-0 wing, 19 yrs old & exactly the skill set to match what this team wants from the 3 spot.


NBA DRAFT ROOM:

Draft Notes
Moody is an elite level three point shooter who is one of the best overall shooters in his class. He’s got an effortless release and is deadly accurate from downtown.

He’s young for his class but can hold his own against much older competition thanks to his great size for position and that sweet shooting stroke. He’s got broad shoulders and a solid frame which will carry more weight as he grows.

He’s much more than just a catch and shoot player. Moody plays a complete game, challenging on defense, holding his own as a rebounder and making plays in transition. He’s got a nice feel for scoring in the lane and a smooth mid range game.

Moody is developing the ability to be a primary ball handler and get his own shot and he’s a very willing passer who understands team concepts and doesn’t let the ball stick in his hands. His dribble drive game is not yet a strength but shows promise.

Comparisons
Allan Houston

Odd scouting report in that it went on about him not being a 1 dimensional player, and yet the comparison was to Allan Houston - who was the classic 1 dimensional shooter of his era.

Yeah, I didn't agree with that scouting report either. He seems like a 3&D guy at first who might be able to run a little secondary pick-and-roll. Whether he develops to be anything more than that will depend on his work ethic. I think he is a high floor guy because he could probably fill a role right away. There's nothing about his game that makes one believe he has star potential, other than his athleticism and length.
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Re: 2021 Draft thread. Evan Mobley here we come! :) 

Post#1390 » by SUPERBALLMAN » Thu Apr 29, 2021 2:26 am

NatP4 wrote:Nothing complete about Moody’s game. The guy is just about as one dimensional as any player in the entire write up. Moody is an off ball shooter. He doesn’t create for himself, he’s not an impact defender. He doesn’t have any elite feel for the game or competitive nature.

He’s highly touted because he can shoot 3s and has good measureables. That’s about it. Those traits might make him a solid NBA role player though.



That's fine because watching Deni, and Bonga, and basically every SF this team has had since Ariza, that is what they want from that position. Stand in the corner and if someone passes it to you shoot the 3. Whether or not it fits the player's skill or strengths of not is irrelevant, so they might as well get someone who can actually fit that mold.

And this is being thrown out as a mid 1st possibility I'd think if they fall out of the top 10...
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Re: 2021 Draft thread. Evan Mobley here we come! :) 

Post#1391 » by Frichuela » Thu Apr 29, 2021 2:31 am

If we end up making it to the playoffs and picking 15th I would be keen on selecting Jared Butler. Smart player and great 3 point shooter, something this team needs! He would be a great third guard behind Russ and Beal.
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Re: 2021 Draft thread. Evan Mobley here we come! :) 

Post#1392 » by SUPERBALLMAN » Thu Apr 29, 2021 2:39 am

Frichuela wrote:If we end up making it to the playoffs and picking 15th I would be keen on selecting Jared Butler. Smart player and great 3 point shooter, something this team needs! He would be a great third guard behind Russ and Beal.



Agree, would love Butler! Moody isn't high on my list, I was saying I wouldn't be surprised if they draft him, not that I especially want them too.
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Re: 2021 Draft thread. Evan Mobley here we come! :) 

Post#1393 » by SUPERBALLMAN » Thu Apr 29, 2021 2:48 am

My mid 1st guys 10-16 range are Mitchell, Butler, Jones, Garuba, Sharpe, Jackson, Wagner... not necessarily in that order.
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Re: 2021 Draft thread. Evan Mobley here we come! :) 

Post#1394 » by DCasey91 » Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:53 am

Aussie guy checking in, I hope you guys draft Giddey.
He might be there at your pick (or might not if the scouts rate him high).
He would fit in so well as a Backup PG/ Linker type for you guys.

Skill for skill he’s a less athletic/Less scoring version of Lamelo. Lamelo will be the better defender but Giddey has more composure age for age. Watching both back to back years the resemblance is uncanny. Lamelo took longer to adjust but showed higher level flashes (had bigger games but also poorer games, shot selection was iffy sometimes).

It’s like his distant chilled out cousin is my comp lol. He just isn’t rushed at all

(Better then Balmaro/Less flashy Bodiroga).
Defense/Shooting needs work but Rebounding/Facilitating/Passing/Advanced guard skill for 6”8” is all there and then some can’t teach that.

Like Cades “guard” skills gets brought up too much his shooting is far superior. Giddey is just way more advanced as a guard.

If your worried about his defensive issues he’ll be okay on SF’s. It’s the guard skills at that height that makes him enticing.

I’d love for him to start exactly what the Hornets did with Ball and run second units or 1st units when Westbrook has a rest. He’ll feed Beal/Hachi/The Big’s all day.

I mean I always liked watching Sato play for you guys.

Iv’e found from my country we tend to do well if they are actual highly skilled basketball players vs really good athletes.

They stick around for a long while

Ben is very skilled in some areas but is an elite as heck athlete. Besides a healthy Bogut pre draft, he’s been our most skillful player at that age. He’s a natural
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Re: 2021 Draft thread. Evan Mobley here we come! :) 

Post#1395 » by doclinkin » Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:42 am

DCasey91 wrote:Aussie guy checking in, I hope you guys draft Giddey.
He might be there at your pick (or might not if the scouts rate him high).
He would fit in so well as a Backup PG/ Linker type for you guys.

Skill for skill he’s a less athletic/Less scoring version of Lamelo. Lamelo will be the better defender but Giddey has more composure age for age. Watching both back to back years the resemblance is uncanny. Lamelo took longer to adjust but showed higher level flashes (had bigger games but also poorer games, shot selection was iffy sometimes).

It’s like his distant chilled out cousin is my comp lol. He just isn’t rushed at all

(Better then Balmaro/Less flashy Bodiroga).
Defense/Shooting needs work but Rebounding/Facilitating/Passing/Advanced guard skill for 6”8” is all there and then some can’t teach that.

Like Cades “guard” skills gets brought up too much his shooting is far superior. Giddey is just way more advanced as a guard.

If your worried about his defensive issues he’ll be okay on SF’s. It’s the guard skills at that height that makes him enticing.

I’d love for him to start exactly what the Hornets did with Ball and run second units or 1st units when Westbrook has a rest. He’ll feed Beal/Hachi/The Big’s all day.

I mean I always liked watching Sato play for you guys.

Iv’e found from my country we tend to do well if they are actual highly skilled basketball players vs really good athletes.

They stick around for a long while

Ben is very skilled in some areas but is an elite as heck athlete. Besides a healthy Bogut pre draft, he’s been our most skillful player at that age. He’s a natural


Thanks for the scouting report. I like his vision and handle, they are NBA level, my chief concerns are his defense and strength. Can he stay in front of small quick guards, and will he get bodied by the superior athletes he would have to bang with in the power wing players. I do see a comparison as a better Satoransky, who had similar problems here. I agree his utility will be maximized as a captain of the 2nd team while he figures out what he can do at an NBA level. Until he has an outside shot he would be mis-used when on the court with Russ, but he likely would be best pure talent available if we didn't jump into the top 4 and he were still on the board at our pick.
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Re: 2021 Draft thread. Evan Mobley here we come! :) 

Post#1396 » by DCasey91 » Thu Apr 29, 2021 11:20 am

doclinkin wrote:
DCasey91 wrote:Aussie guy checking in, I hope you guys draft Giddey.
He might be there at your pick (or might not if the scouts rate him high).
He would fit in so well as a Backup PG/ Linker type for you guys.

Skill for skill he’s a less athletic/Less scoring version of Lamelo. Lamelo will be the better defender but Giddey has more composure age for age. Watching both back to back years the resemblance is uncanny. Lamelo took longer to adjust but showed higher level flashes (had bigger games but also poorer games, shot selection was iffy sometimes).

It’s like his distant chilled out cousin is my comp lol. He just isn’t rushed at all

(Better then Balmaro/Less flashy Bodiroga).
Defense/Shooting needs work but Rebounding/Facilitating/Passing/Advanced guard skill for 6”8” is all there and then some can’t teach that.

Like Cades “guard” skills gets brought up too much his shooting is far superior. Giddey is just way more advanced as a guard.

If your worried about his defensive issues he’ll be okay on SF’s. It’s the guard skills at that height that makes him enticing.

I’d love for him to start exactly what the Hornets did with Ball and run second units or 1st units when Westbrook has a rest. He’ll feed Beal/Hachi/The Big’s all day.

I mean I always liked watching Sato play for you guys.

Iv’e found from my country we tend to do well if they are actual highly skilled basketball players vs really good athletes.

They stick around for a long while

Ben is very skilled in some areas but is an elite as heck athlete. Besides a healthy Bogut pre draft, he’s been our most skillful player at that age. He’s a natural


Thanks for the scouting report. I like his vision and handle, they are NBA level, my chief concerns are his defense and strength. Can he stay in front of small quick guards, and will he get bodied by the superior athletes he would have to bang with in the power wing players. I do see a comparison as a better Satoransky, who had similar problems here. I agree his utility will be maximized as a captain of the 2nd team while he figures out what he can do at an NBA level. Until he has an outside shot he would be mis-used when on the court with Russ, but he likely would be best pure talent available if we didn't jump into the top 4 and he were still on the board at our pick.


I wouldn’t be too concerned on the strength/defense part you can hide him pretty easily off the ball. Youngsters gain strength/weight naturally over time. He’s a bit more manipulative than Sato. His handle can get lackadaisical but that’s just a focus thing/young. Stuffs the stat sheet and gets others involved a lot. Playing in a professional setting as the primary ballhandler from day dot bodes really well, it just up scales their improvement/exp so much. When you watch him 99% of the time he knows exactly what he’s doing. It’s much more then others ranked around him, it’s really impressive/advanced for his age.

Is your pick just outside/borderline ten? If Giddey is there his upside has real value imo.
The facilitating/Rebounding/Playmaking/creation for others will transfer pretty seamlessly.
If his shot comes along (its fine needs reps/legs under him which as you said is a strength thing, half the time you don’t notice anything just a regular good looking shot).

More Euro style nowadays
Bolmaro (Giddy is better age for age) was pick 23, Top 5 is solidified, anywhere from 9-15 is a great choice imo.
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Re: 2021 Draft thread. Evan Mobley here we come! :) 

Post#1397 » by doclinkin » Thu Apr 29, 2021 12:33 pm

DCasey91 wrote:
I wouldn’t be too concerned on the strength/defense part you can hide him pretty easily off the ball. Youngsters gain strength/weight naturally over time. He’s a bit more manipulative than Sato. His handle can get lackadaisical but that’s just a focus thing/young. Stuffs the stat sheet and gets others involved a lot. Playing in a professional setting as the primary ballhandler from day dot bodes really well, it just up scales their improvement/exp so much. When you watch him 99% of the time he knows exactly what he’s doing. It’s much more then others ranked around him, it’s really impressive/advanced for his age.

Is your pick just outside/borderline ten? If Giddey is there his upside has real value imo.
The facilitating/Rebounding/Playmaking/creation for others will transfer pretty seamlessly.
If his shot comes along (its fine needs reps/legs under him which as you said is a strength thing, half the time you don’t notice anything just a regular good looking shot).

More Euro style nowadays
Bolmaro (Giddy is better age for age) was pick 23, Top 5 is solidified, anywhere from 9-15 is a great choice imo.


Yeah in the NBA is it not so easy to hide a player anymore. You can hide a wing if you have truly solid backline help. But there are too many power wings and playmaking forwards that you really can't start a defensive liability. Or more than one who can't shoot.

Here for instance we hide one of the best 3 pt shooters in the league in Bertans because he has athletic and defensive shortcomings. He doesn't have the strength or lateral speed to stay in front of wing players, so all teams need to do is screen and set picks until they force a switch with him on the perimeter.

If in the NBL you already have to hide Giddey off the ball, if his heads-up offensive play does not quite translate to defensive positional awareness enough to make up for his slight frame and lack of laterality, AND he lacks a ranged shot, well, yeah, for a while anyway he will be starved of the live-ball minutes that he needs for his game to develop. But there is no doubt he has rare vision. The rest is dependent on his work ethic and character. Does he fight hard when faced with adversity, is he a gym rat, does he have a competitive rage to improve and impose his will, will he develop on his own on the offseason, is he likely to work harder when knocked back or does he sulk. Can he hit the weight room and add functional strength.

In the NBA continual adjustments and improvements, in game and in the offseason, are where you find stardom, and where Giddey can develop into more than a, hmm, say Shaun Livingston? I'm trying to think of a tall slim playmaker, without reliable range or a true position on defense.

At his best a healthy Shaun Livingston was a nice player. Found a way to stick in the league despite no outside shot. Nice passing, smart, killer handle and ball skills, enough ups to dunk it when not in traffic. Still he bounced around due to slight frame (injury risk) and no outside shot. His determination to overcome a devastating injury, his desire and will to compete were what kept him in the league despite setbacks. If Giddey has that level of focus and hunger and desire, then yeah he can become a nice player. His shortfalls are fixable. He needs strength and a jumper to be a good fit at SF on any team. Or he needs defensive improvement, to work on his stance, laterality and core strength, so that he is not a liability on switches. If he can't guard guards then he is not a playmaking lead guard, he is a bench playing anomaly. It does seem to me that he has the ability to improve here, he will just need to put in the work. Best thing about young players though is that they do improve. And he has a jumpstart on most players with his vision and understanding of timing. Usually that translates to defense eventually.
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Re: 2021 Draft thread. Evan Mobley here we come! :) 

Post#1398 » by Dat2U » Thu Apr 29, 2021 1:12 pm

pcbothwel wrote:
NatP4 wrote:Nothing complete about Moody’s game. The guy is just about as one dimensional as any player in the entire write up. Moody is an off ball shooter. He doesn’t create for himself, he’s not an impact defender. He doesn’t have any elite feel for the game or competitive nature.

He’s highly touted because he can shoot 3s and has good measureables. That’s about it. Those traits might make him a solid NBA role player though.


Could not agree more. Im baffled by folks who think he is a lotto player. He's not quick or explosive (Laterally and vertically). Poor handle. Trouble finishing through contact/at the rim. Average spatial awareness and below average body control.
Reminds of Robert Woodard in some ways.

He'll play 10-12 years in the NBA, but I cant see him as a starter on a playoff team.


Jarvis Hayes. Jumper not quite as pretty though.
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Re: 2021 Draft thread. Evan Mobley here we come! :) 

Post#1399 » by doclinkin » Thu Apr 29, 2021 1:17 pm

Dat2U wrote:
pcbothwel wrote:
NatP4 wrote:Nothing complete about Moody’s game. The guy is just about as one dimensional as any player in the entire write up. Moody is an off ball shooter. He doesn’t create for himself, he’s not an impact defender. He doesn’t have any elite feel for the game or competitive nature.

He’s highly touted because he can shoot 3s and has good measureables. That’s about it. Those traits might make him a solid NBA role player though.


Could not agree more. Im baffled by folks who think he is a lotto player. He's not quick or explosive (Laterally and vertically). Poor handle. Trouble finishing through contact/at the rim. Average spatial awareness and below average body control.
Reminds of Robert Woodard in some ways.

He'll play 10-12 years in the NBA, but I cant see him as a starter on a playoff team.


Jarvis Hayes. Jumper not quite as pretty though.


Arvis Hayes had the prettiest looking jumper that ever missed a basket. It made me wonder if he needed his eyes checked or something. Contact lenses. Lasik. I dunno.
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Re: 2021 Draft thread. Evan Mobley here we come! :) 

Post#1400 » by NatP4 » Sat May 1, 2021 2:24 pm

Giddey with another triple double today. 15-11-13 on 9 shots. His best game of the season.

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