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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL

Posted: Fri Apr 2, 2021 4:32 pm
by NatP4
pcbothwel wrote:
NatP4 wrote:If NOP jumps into the top 3 of the lottery, what else would we need them to add to a Beal trade outside of top 3 pick+multiple high 2nds+filler?


Ehhh. They've won 4 of 6 and think they end up 11/12th.
The only team in the top 10 that has the balls to make a move for Beal with their pick is Toronto and Orlando. But Orlando just sold off Vuc & Gordon, so that may have passed.


Indiana could also land a top pick. Every time I run tankathon, I get one of Indiana, NOP, Toronto, or Chicago in the top 4.

And if GS lands that 4th pick, it’s an option for Beal, espcially if Suggs is there at 4.

Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL

Posted: Fri Apr 2, 2021 4:51 pm
by Ruzious
NatP4 wrote:
Ruzious wrote:
NatP4 wrote:If NOP jumps into the top 3 of the lottery, what else would we need them to add to a Beal trade outside of top 3 pick+multiple high 2nds+filler?

NAW. He's coming off a 31 point game - starting to show what the future could hold for him. NAW plus a top 3 pick would be a good start.


That would be a great pickup. NAW is a really good defender along with that developing offensive game.

NAW, Hayes, Bledsoe, Top 3 pick, 35&36th overall for Beal?

We would still have to tank through the last couple years of the Westbrook and Bledsoe contracts, but that could allow us to convey the least valuable asset(s) possible to Houston from the Wall deal.

Yeah, that Bledsoe filler makes the trade work in the trade checker. And they made it clear they want to trade Bledsoe. I remember Bledsoe when he was Wall's backup at KY. He can still play some.

Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL

Posted: Fri Apr 2, 2021 9:07 pm
by gambitx777
It makes me absolutly sick to think of taking one top 3 pick for beal.

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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL

Posted: Fri Apr 2, 2021 9:35 pm
by Ruzious
gambitx777 wrote:It makes me absolutly sick to think of taking one top 3 pick for beal.

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Did anyone suggest doing that?

Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL

Posted: Fri Apr 2, 2021 10:56 pm
by verbal8
If the Wizards get some help in the lotto, I think they absolutely have to make a big deal. Either move the pick for some young win now help with Beal or deal Beal and rebuild hopefully with a couple of lotto picks.

Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL

Posted: Sat Apr 3, 2021 1:12 am
by gambitx777
Yes. Many people have mentioned trading beal for a top 3 pick with no mention of other picks included.
Ruzious wrote:
gambitx777 wrote:It makes me absolutly sick to think of taking one top 3 pick for beal.

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Did anyone suggest doing that?


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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL

Posted: Sat Apr 3, 2021 1:25 am
by long suffrin' boulez fan
gambitx777 wrote:It makes me absolutly sick to think of taking one top 3 pick for beal.

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Hmm, let’s compare:

Russ
Beal Matthews
Deni
Rui Bertans Hutch
Mobley Bryant Gafford

To

Russ Bledsoe 2nd
Suggs Matthews 2nd
NAW Bertans Deni
Mobley Rui Hutch
Hays Bryant Gafford

I think I like door #2 better. Who knows, maybe they even throw in a future #1

It’s pretty hard to assemble anything really great with Russ as the center of gravity, however.

Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL

Posted: Sat Apr 3, 2021 3:18 am
by gambitx777
In not saying don't trade beal. I'm saying I'm not trading him for only one pick that's top 3. I don't really care where the pick land because ours are going to be high with out beal. I want more options. So I've I'm talking NO who has so many picks I want ball sign and trade, hayes and NAW plus 2-5 picks plus some seconds likw I'm going all in.
long suffrin' boulez fan wrote:
gambitx777 wrote:It makes me absolutly sick to think of taking one top 3 pick for beal.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app


Hmm, let’s compare:

Russ
Beal Matthews
Deni
Rui Bertans Hutch
Mobley Bryant Gafford

To

Russ Bledsoe 2nd
Suggs Matthews 2nd
NAW Bertans Deni
Mobley Rui Hutch
Hays Bryant Gafford

I think I like door #2 better. Who knows, maybe they even throw in a future #1

It’s pretty hard to assemble anything really great with Russ as the center of gravity, however.


Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app

Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL

Posted: Sat Apr 3, 2021 4:16 am
by Illuminaire
gambitx777 wrote:In not saying don't trade beal. I'm saying I'm not trading him for only one pick that's top 3. I don't really care where the pick land because ours are going to be high with out beal. I want more options. So I've I'm talking NO who has so many picks I want ball sign and trade, hayes and NAW plus 2-5 picks plus some seconds likw I'm going all in.
long suffrin' boulez fan wrote:
gambitx777 wrote:It makes me absolutly sick to think of taking one top 3 pick for beal.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app


Hmm, let’s compare:

Russ
Beal Matthews
Deni
Rui Bertans Hutch
Mobley Bryant Gafford

To

Russ Bledsoe 2nd
Suggs Matthews 2nd
NAW Bertans Deni
Mobley Rui Hutch
Hays Bryant Gafford

I think I like door #2 better. Who knows, maybe they even throw in a future #1

It’s pretty hard to assemble anything really great with Russ as the center of gravity, however.


Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app


NO would absolutely do NAW+Hayes+Bledsoe+2021 first (assuming it's top4) for Beal.

You could probably get one more #1 out of them too, because none of that touches their core and leaves enough powder in the cupboard to finish the team. It might not be another premium pick, but a mid-first? Sure.

EDIT: On reflection, NO would definitely do more picks. Either two "premium" firsts, or the top-4 2021 and a bucket of lesser picks. I think they'd want to keep a little draft capital in the cupboard. Though if you weren't taking NAW, who the team is pretty high on, you could get more.

Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL

Posted: Sat Apr 3, 2021 4:55 am
by gambitx777
Tha be fine with me but just one top 4 and a couple of ok young ayers I'm not doing that.

If it's a good solid pick and a few tossed in I'm good with that like a couple of the lakers/bucks picks down the line I'm chill with that.
Illuminaire wrote:
gambitx777 wrote:In not saying don't trade beal. I'm saying I'm not trading him for only one pick that's top 3. I don't really care where the pick land because ours are going to be high with out beal. I want more options. So I've I'm talking NO who has so many picks I want ball sign and trade, hayes and NAW plus 2-5 picks plus some seconds likw I'm going all in.
long suffrin' boulez fan wrote:
Hmm, let’s compare:

Russ
Beal Matthews
Deni
Rui Bertans Hutch
Mobley Bryant Gafford

To

Russ Bledsoe 2nd
Suggs Matthews 2nd
NAW Bertans Deni
Mobley Rui Hutch
Hays Bryant Gafford

I think I like door #2 better. Who knows, maybe they even throw in a future #1

It’s pretty hard to assemble anything really great with Russ as the center of gravity, however.


Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app


NO would absolutely do NAW+Hayes+Bledsoe+2021 first (assuming it's top4) for Beal.

You could probably get one more #1 out of them too, because none of that touches their core and leaves enough powder in the cupboard to finish the team. It might not be another premium pick, but a mid-first? Sure.

EDIT: On reflection, NO would definitely do more picks. Either two "premium" firsts, or the top-4 2021 and a bucket of lesser picks. I think they'd want to keep a little draft capital in the cupboard. Though if you weren't taking NAW, who the team is pretty high on, you could get more.


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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL

Posted: Sat Apr 3, 2021 5:22 am
by Dat2U
gambitx777 wrote:Yes. Many people have mentioned trading beal for a top 3 pick with no mention of other picks included.
Ruzious wrote:
gambitx777 wrote:It makes me absolutly sick to think of taking one top 3 pick for beal.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app

Did anyone suggest doing that?


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Cool story bro. A top 3 pick as the core piece, yes. Along with other stuff, of course! It all depends who lands it tho. Just like the Minny pick would come with Wiseman and other stuff, any other package for Beal would have some secondary and tertiary options as well. No one is suggesting a Beal for a single pick swap which would be impossible anyways.

What I'm against is trading for a hodge podge of future late picks, meaningless pick swaps, and b-level assets. Basically what Houston got for Harden. Usually the team giving up the best player loses he deal so as GM you should do your best to close that talent gap as much as possible, don't settle for scraps and you don't build contenders for other teams - like your trying to do with the Pels roster (something Wizards should take to heart based on past experiences).

Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL

Posted: Sat Apr 3, 2021 5:58 am
by gambitx777
There are a few key points here I wanna go over.
Yes there were people who mentioned one top 3 pick being the only pick in the offer. That imo would be a terrible deal, no matter what else you get for beal.

As I've stated before our picks are going to be low for years to come. I would rather take the hodge podge. You hope it's gonna be a corner piece but was anthony bennett? Was Greg oden? Was otto? The answer is I would trade beal for any of those guys and that can happen. I want assets you can bitch and moan about this picks being low but if you do your home work you can get more milage out of those assets than one pick. Bea is loyal he wants to be here trading a top guy with that character that should get you more than on ticket at maybe getting back the guy you traded away. I'd rather have those tickets. Also like with no their pick might be a lot pick this year that pick the la pick that's gonna be 2022 and maybe 3 of the extra picks that are down the road. I run with that.

Also I hate pick swaps too, it's silly and stupid but second rounders I'll take all day long and twice on Sunday.

You think a top pick will be a corner piece but they aren't always. You don't know how good these kids are gonna be no more than I do but there are plenty of busts in the top 3 as there just as there are in any other spots.

NAW hayes and maybe a ball S&T is not worse than wiggins and wiseman imo even if you take ball out it's not far off.
So no I want more picks for brad

You bring up huston
That was a completely miss managed mess, to the point where you cant even compare.
They botched that so bad on the oladipo part they could have had allen and lavert and flipped them both for good value you at the deadline.

.
Dat2U wrote:
gambitx777 wrote:Yes. Many people have mentioned trading beal for a top 3 pick with no mention of other picks included.
Ruzious wrote:Did anyone suggest doing that?


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Cool story bro. A top 3 pick as the core piece, yes. Along with other stuff, of course! It all depends who lands it tho. Just like the Minny pick would come with Wiseman and other stuff, any other package for Beal would have some secondary and tertiary options as well. No one is suggesting a Beal for a single pick swap which would be impossible anyways.

What I'm against is trading for a hodge podge of future late picks, meaningless pick swaps, and b-level assets. Basically what Houston got for Harden. Usually the team giving up the best player loses he deal so as GM you should do your best to close that talent gap as much as possible, don't settle for scraps and you don't build contenders for other teams - like your trying to do with the Pels roster (something Wizards should take to heart based on past experiences).


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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL

Posted: Sat Apr 3, 2021 10:31 am
by Ruzious
If NO gets a top 3 pick, I think the trade should focus on Beal for that pick, NAW and Kira Lewis. Now, if we can get some additional picks in there, that's great, but the focus of the trade should be the top 3 pick and 2 exciting young players like NAW and Lewis. Bledsoe is filler that makes the trade legal.

Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL

Posted: Sat Apr 3, 2021 11:01 am
by gambitx777
With out beating my he against the wall here. I would push towards a Lonzo ball sign and trade and not anything to do with bledsoe.
Ruzious wrote:If NO gets a top 3 pick, I think the trade should focus on Beal for that pick, NAW and Kira Lewis. Now, if we can get some additional picks in there, that's great, but the focus of the trade should be the top 3 pick and 2 exciting young players like NAW and Lewis. Bledsoe is filler that makes the trade legal.


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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL

Posted: Sat Apr 3, 2021 11:05 am
by Ruzious
gambitx777 wrote:With out beating my he against the wall here. I would push towards a Lonzo ball sign and trade and not anything to do with bledsoe.
Ruzious wrote:If NO gets a top 3 pick, I think the trade should focus on Beal for that pick, NAW and Kira Lewis. Now, if we can get some additional picks in there, that's great, but the focus of the trade should be the top 3 pick and 2 exciting young players like NAW and Lewis. Bledsoe is filler that makes the trade legal.


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That's fine that you push for it, but ya gotta give the other team a reason to make the trade. I'd like to get Zion, while we're at it.

Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL

Posted: Sat Apr 3, 2021 11:42 am
by 9 and 20
Pelicans do have some young players that make them an appealing trade partner if we're trading Beal. Bledsoe and Westbrook in the same backcourt would be a sight to behold, though. A monument made of bricks, the brickcourt.

Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL

Posted: Sat Apr 3, 2021 12:13 pm
by gambitx777
I mean they were litterally shopping him this trade dead line and almost moved him per reports. They would be silly to let him walk for nothing and this would be a good place to dump him if you can get him to agree to a deal.
Ruzious wrote:
gambitx777 wrote:With out beating my he against the wall here. I would push towards a Lonzo ball sign and trade and not anything to do with bledsoe.
Ruzious wrote:If NO gets a top 3 pick, I think the trade should focus on Beal for that pick, NAW and Kira Lewis. Now, if we can get some additional picks in there, that's great, but the focus of the trade should be the top 3 pick and 2 exciting young players like NAW and Lewis. Bledsoe is filler that makes the trade legal.


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That's fine that you push for it, but ya gotta give the other team a reason to make the trade. I'd like to get Zion, while we're at it.


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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL

Posted: Sat Apr 3, 2021 12:37 pm
by Ruzious
gambitx777 wrote:I mean they were litterally shopping him this trade dead line and almost moved him per reports. They would be silly to let him walk for nothing and this would be a good place to dump him if you can get him to agree to a deal.
Ruzious wrote:
gambitx777 wrote:With out beating my he against the wall here. I would push towards a Lonzo ball sign and trade and not anything to do with bledsoe.

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That's fine that you push for it, but ya gotta give the other team a reason to make the trade. I'd like to get Zion, while we're at it.


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But now that he'll be a free agent, he'd probably have to agree to this sign and trade, and why would he - considering he's a West Coast guy, and Washington already is committed to Westbrook at PG? Not to mention there were reports than NO changed their mind and wanted to keep him because he was playing so well. Bledsoe was the one they were really trying hard to dump. Also not to mention - I wouldn't want to commit to what it would take to sign Ball - he's gonna get a big contract - and probably 4 or 5 years at at least $20 mil per year. Bledsoe's got just 2 years left, and most of that last year is not guaranteed.

Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL

Posted: Sat Apr 3, 2021 1:00 pm
by nate33
Illuminaire wrote:NO would absolutely do NAW+Hayes+Bledsoe+2021 first (assuming it's top4) for Beal.

You could probably get one more #1 out of them too, because none of that touches their core and leaves enough powder in the cupboard to finish the team. It might not be another premium pick, but a mid-first? Sure.

EDIT: On reflection, NO would definitely do more picks. Either two "premium" firsts, or the top-4 2021 and a bucket of lesser picks. I think they'd want to keep a little draft capital in the cupboard. Though if you weren't taking NAW, who the team is pretty high on, you could get more.

One thing interesting about New Orleans is that the Stepien Rule is not a factor because of the picks they have coming their way from the JRue trade. They could conceivably trade their 2021, 2022, 2023 and 2024 picks and still have a first round pick every other year.

New Orleans, if they land a top 4 pick, would definitely be the best trade partner for Beal. He is a perfect fit on their roster, and they have the assets (assuming they land a top 4 pick), filler, and luxtax flexibility to make a deal work with ease.

A deal starting with their 2021 top 4 pick, NAW and Bledsoe is a good foundation. From there, it's just a matter of how many extra assets the Wizards can extract from New Orleans. I'm not a big fan of Hayes, but he'd probably have to be included to make salaries match. (New Orleans has the cap room to do the deal without him, but then they'd have to renounce all of their cap exceptions which would make it difficult to fill out their roster.) I'd go hard for a 2022 pick and hopefully one more after that.

Does anybody know if they could agree to a deal in principle around draft day (using Bledsoe Hayes and Iwundu as "filler") and then alter the deal after the free agency period where they could use a resigned Josh Hart as the filler to replace Hayes and Iwundu?

Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL

Posted: Sat Apr 3, 2021 1:07 pm
by nate33
Dat2U wrote:Cool story bro. A top 3 pick as the core piece, yes. Along with other stuff, of course! It all depends who lands it tho. Just like the Minny pick would come with Wiseman and other stuff, any other package for Beal would have some secondary and tertiary options as well. No one is suggesting a Beal for a single pick swap which would be impossible anyways.

What I'm against is trading for a hodge podge of future late picks, meaningless pick swaps, and b-level assets. Basically what Houston got for Harden. Usually the team giving up the best player loses he deal so as GM you should do your best to close that talent gap as much as possible, don't settle for scraps and you don't build contenders for other teams - like your trying to do with the Pels roster (something Wizards should take to heart based on past experiences).

I agree with all of this. However, I'm not so sure Houston did so poorly on that Harden trade. That hodgepodge of picks includes the Brooklyn 1st round picks from 2024 and 2026, plus pick swaps in 2025 and 2027. In 2026, Durant will be 38 and surely out of the league. Kyrie will be 34 and likely will have flaked out by then, and Harden will be 37 if he is still even on the roster after Durant and Kyrie had departed. In the meantime, they will have added no young players, getting by with just ring chasing vets and minimum salary guys as depth.

Those late picks are likely to be in the lottery. They're far in the future, but the value is there. Houston is going to have a couple of years in the wilderness, but after tanking for a couple of years in 2022-24, they should build up a young core which will then be infused with a bunch more talent in the 2nd half of the decade.