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Official Trade Thread -- Part XL

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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL 

Post#1381 » by Illuminaire » Sat Apr 3, 2021 10:37 pm

payitforward wrote:I'm sure I'm in the minority on this, but I don't have a lot of interest in Brandon Ingram. He's already played 5 years in the league, & so far, in @10,000 minutes on an NBA floor, he has not been all that good.

In his last two seasons, he's become a good scorer -- above average usage & above average TS%. Other than that, he's been just about average overall in every other statistical category.

Don't get me wrong -- that describes a good player! But... it doesn't describe a player I want to give $131m over the next 4 years. Not a chance.

I doubt there's a deal to be made here, but if so it would start with their high pick, Josh Hart, Jaxson Hayes, Kira Lewis, & multiple other picks (including the return of our R2 pick this year). I'd be interested in NA-W, but that's taking a flyer.


All totally fair. The argument for Ingram is that he has steadily improved in many areas since joining the league. There is the obvious - 3pt % and FT %, which are leaps above how he started as a rookie. Then there's his rebounding, which actually improved quite a bit (check by 100 posssesions) until this year, where he regressed to his rookie numbers. Not sure if that's because of Adams or what.

Assists? Improved. Turnover percentage? Gets as little better every year even as usage goes up.

But as you noted, those are all offensive stats. He needs to rebound more and play defensive with more urgency if he wants to be a franchise cornerstone.

So anyone trading for BI is basically getting an NBA2k player with an 85 overall rating, but A+ potential and insane measurables. You're just hoping he keeps that rate of improvement for a few more years and truly steps into the realm of the elite.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL 

Post#1382 » by gambitx777 » Sat Apr 3, 2021 10:46 pm

I'm just worried about his health issues. Like that scares me with him.
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payitforward wrote:I'm sure I'm in the minority on this, but I don't have a lot of interest in Brandon Ingram. He's already played 5 years in the league, & so far, in @10,000 minutes on an NBA floor, he has not been all that good.

In his last two seasons, he's become a good scorer -- above average usage & above average TS%. Other than that, he's been just about average overall in every other statistical category.

Don't get me wrong -- that describes a good player! But... it doesn't describe a player I want to give $131m over the next 4 years. Not a chance.

I doubt there's a deal to be made here, but if so it would start with their high pick, Josh Hart, Jaxson Hayes, Kira Lewis, & multiple other picks (including the return of our R2 pick this year). I'd be interested in NA-W, but that's taking a flyer.


All totally fair. The argument for Ingram is that he has steadily improved in many areas since joining the league. There is the obvious - 3pt % and FT %, which are leaps above how he started as a rookie. Then there's his rebounding, which actually improved quite a bit (check by 100 posssesions) until this year, where he regressed to his rookie numbers. Not sure if that's because of Adams or what.

Assists? Improved. Turnover percentage? Gets as little better every year even as usage goes up.

But as you noted, those are all offensive stats. He needs to rebound more and play defensive with more urgency if he wants to be a franchise cornerstone.

So anyone trading for BI is basically getting an NBA2k player with an 85 overall rating, but A+ potential and insane measurables. You're just hoping he keeps that rate of improvement for a few more years and truly steps into the realm of the elite.


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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL 

Post#1383 » by Illuminaire » Sat Apr 3, 2021 10:54 pm

I have to admit I don't have much of a handle on that. He's been on teams that don't *want* to win for most of his career. That's meant he's been sat for relatively minor injuries much more often than would be expected.

I can't say if that's because he's actually fragile, or if circumstances played a larger role. It's a fair concern.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL 

Post#1384 » by payitforward » Sat Apr 3, 2021 11:51 pm

Illuminaire wrote:
payitforward wrote:I'm sure I'm in the minority on this, but I don't have a lot of interest in Brandon Ingram. He's already played 5 years in the league, & so far, in @10,000 minutes on an NBA floor, he has not been all that good.

In his last two seasons, he's become a good scorer -- above average usage & above average TS%. Other than that, he's been just about average overall in every other statistical category.

Don't get me wrong -- that describes a good player! But... it doesn't describe a player I want to give $131m over the next 4 years. Not a chance.

I doubt there's a deal to be made here, but if so it would start with their high pick, Josh Hart, Jaxson Hayes, Kira Lewis, & multiple other picks (including the return of our R2 pick this year). I'd be interested in NA-W, but that's taking a flyer.

All totally fair. The argument for Ingram is that he has steadily improved in many areas since joining the league. There is the obvious - 3pt % and FT %, which are leaps above how he started as a rookie. Then there's his rebounding, which actually improved quite a bit (check by 100 posssesions) until this year, where he regressed to his rookie numbers. Not sure if that's because of Adams or what.

Assists? Improved. Turnover percentage? Gets as little better every year even as usage goes up.

But as you noted, those are all offensive stats. He needs to rebound more and play defensive with more urgency if he wants to be a franchise cornerstone.

So anyone trading for BI is basically getting an NBA2k player with an 85 overall rating, but A+ potential and insane measurables. You're just hoping he keeps that rate of improvement for a few more years and truly steps into the realm of the elite.

The scoring improvements are unquestionably a big positive -- even impressive. But, even there, has he gotten himself into "star scorer" territory? I don't know.... Very good tho.

When I think about trading for him, however, the big problem I see is the relationship between the number of question marks about him & his contract. Right now, he isn't producing overall at anywhere near the level that would justify what he's paid & the many guaranteed years. There are just too many ways for that to fail to work out; it's a risk I would never take.

To put it slightly differently: any team would love to trade a problem for a solution. More often you trade a problem for a problem or a solution for a solution. What you want to be sure never to do is trade a solution for a problem.

There is too much risk of doing that with Ingram. He could become a stud, sure. But there's a good chance he's never very different from what he is right now, & there's some meaningful chance he loses value over time through injuries or a big head (complacency).

I cannot imagine targeting Brandon Ingram, & above all I could never make him a significant piece of a trade that sends out Bradley Beal.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL 

Post#1385 » by Illuminaire » Sun Apr 4, 2021 12:42 am

We're on the same page. I'm a little higher on BI, but he's not the right fit for a trade to a team already trying to develop several talented but flawed wings. I think the Wiz are better off going for a pick package, filler, and NAW.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL 

Post#1386 » by payitforward » Sun Apr 4, 2021 2:27 am

Illuminaire wrote:We're on the same page. I'm a little higher on BI, but he's not the right fit for a trade to a team already trying to develop several talented but flawed wings. I think the Wiz are better off going for a pick package, filler, and NAW.

Maybe -- but it's really not that I'm not "high" on Ingram -- he is clearly a very very gifted kid. It's just too risky -- too big a roll of the dice -- for a franchise like the Wizards that has very little to work with in rebuilding itself.

In fairness, I'm not even sure it can be said that we are "rebuilding." It might be fairer to say that we are just plain in a nosedive. We're quite likely to get worse for a few years. We look like we're heading for one of those stretches like '08-09 -- '11-12 where we had 88 wins over a 4 year stretch. We're 6-14 in our last 20 games.

I need a jolt of pcbothwei optimism!! I really do. So, he may be nuts... but I still want some of what he's smoking! :)
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL 

Post#1387 » by 9 and 20 » Sun Apr 4, 2021 5:22 pm

Regarding Russ this offseason - Jrue Holiday just signed a 4 year, $160 million contract. Not that we should trade Russ for Jrue, but if Jrue is worth that to a team, there must be a team out there for Russ.

Also, I think Ingram and a top pick would be about the best we could do in a Beal trade. Or any really good young player plus a top draft pick would work. I agree with the group that doesn't want a collection of picks in the teens and 20s. I would want at least either a really good young player or a top draft pick as the centerpiece. Getting both is the best of both worlds.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL 

Post#1388 » by FAH1223 » Tue Apr 6, 2021 3:03 am

This guy who writes for the Action Network says Beal was nearly traded to the Knicks
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL 

Post#1389 » by Ruzious » Tue Apr 6, 2021 10:48 am

9 and 20 wrote:Regarding Russ this offseason - Jrue Holiday just signed a 4 year, $160 million contract. Not that we should trade Russ for Jrue, but if Jrue is worth that to a team, there must be a team out there for Russ.

Also, I think Ingram and a top pick would be about the best we could do in a Beal trade. Or any really good young player plus a top draft pick would work. I agree with the group that doesn't want a collection of picks in the teens and 20s. I would want at least either a really good young player or a top draft pick as the centerpiece. Getting both is the best of both worlds.

If we could get Jrue for Westbrook, do it 3 times. Jrue is a great defender with great length, and he's having his best offensive season - playing with Giannis. And he had all the leverage there - seeing as Milwaukee had to re-sign him. And $20 mil of the 160 is made up of not likely to reach incentives.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL 

Post#1390 » by doclinkin » Tue Apr 6, 2021 12:24 pm

FAH1223 wrote:This guy who writes for the Action Network says Beal was nearly traded to the Knicks


The usual non-story until and unless it becomes true:

https://www.yardbarker.com/nba/articles/beal_or_no_deal_knicks_reportedly_interested_in_beal_barrett_on_the_move/s1_15032_34156808

“I’ve got it from a very good source that the Knicks are quietly interested in a Bradley Beal. How’s that gonna happen? He’s signed to a long-term deal. He has not said he wanted to be traded. But you forget, the Knicks have World Wide Wes on their side. He’s been in the ears of some of Beal’s people and kinda nudging them that this might be the time to push for a trade,” Kay said on his ESPN radio show last week.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL 

Post#1391 » by gambitx777 » Tue Apr 6, 2021 12:33 pm

I'm sure they called with an offer
Probably something like the Dallas and the det picks plus one of their over and toppin, quickly and Barret/robinson.
FAH1223 wrote:This guy who writes for the Action Network says Beal was nearly traded to the Knicks


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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL 

Post#1392 » by Ruzious » Tue Apr 6, 2021 2:36 pm

gambitx777 wrote:I'm sure they called with an offer
Probably something like the Dallas and the det picks plus one of their over and toppin, quickly and Barret/robinson.
FAH1223 wrote:This guy who writes for the Action Network says Beal was nearly traded to the Knicks


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I really don't want a package built around Barrett and Toppin - but wouldn't be surprised by it.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL 

Post#1393 » by NatP4 » Tue Apr 6, 2021 2:39 pm

I’m only trading Beal for a top 4 pick or multiple picks in the top 15.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL 

Post#1394 » by Ruzious » Tue Apr 6, 2021 2:53 pm

Say you're Ujiri, and you're hired to do anything and everything you want - no restrictions. You can change the entire roster if you want - in your image. What do you end up with?
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL 

Post#1395 » by NatP4 » Tue Apr 6, 2021 3:27 pm

Ruzious wrote:Say you're Ujiri, and you're hired to do anything and everything you want - no restrictions. You can change the entire roster if you want - in your image. What do you end up with?


1. Beal goes to GS for 4th overall&13th overall.

2. Westbrook goes to the clippers for Morris, Kennard, and Beverly

3. Bertans goes to some contending team on draft night in the 25-30 range. Lets call it 27th.

4. Play it conservative and say the wiz land the 6th overall pick.

5. Re sign Bonga&Mathews

6. Write Jay Wright a blank check

Draft picks:

4: Jalen Suggs
6: Franz Wagner
13: Josh Giddey
27: Chris Duarte


Suggs Beverly Winston
Giddey Mathews Duarte
Avdija Bonga Kennard
Wagner Hachimura Morris
Gafford Bryant
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL 

Post#1396 » by Ruzious » Tue Apr 6, 2021 3:55 pm

NatP4 wrote:
Ruzious wrote:Say you're Ujiri, and you're hired to do anything and everything you want - no restrictions. You can change the entire roster if you want - in your image. What do you end up with?


1. Beal goes to GS for 4th overall&13th overall.

2. Westbrook goes to the clippers for Morris, Kennard, and Beverly

3. Bertans goes to some contending team on draft night in the 25-30 range. Lets call it 27th.

4. Play it conservative and say the wiz land the 6th overall pick.

5. Re sign Bonga&Mathews

6. Write Jay Wright a blank check

Draft picks:

4: Jalen Suggs
6: Franz Wagner
13: Josh Giddey
27: Chris Duarte


Suggs Beverly Winston
Giddey Mathews Duarte
Avdija Bonga Kennard
Wagner Hachimura Morris
Gafford Bryant


I'm impressed that you didn't force a lotto win - that would have been the easy way out. I'll give it a shot later today.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL 

Post#1397 » by gambitx777 » Tue Apr 6, 2021 4:39 pm

That is just a terrible mind set. I'm my opinion.
NatP4 wrote:I’m only trading Beal for a top 4 pick or multiple picks in the top 15.


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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL 

Post#1398 » by payitforward » Tue Apr 6, 2021 5:27 pm

Ruzious wrote:Say you're Ujiri, and you're hired to do anything and everything you want - no restrictions. You can change the entire roster if you want - in your image. What do you end up with?

Sure, but... hired by what team?

Just jokin'....

What do you mean by "end up with?" I.e. over how much time?

I guess the place you start is by trading Chandler Hutchison to the Bulls for Troy Brown. Would they go for that, do you think?
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL 

Post#1399 » by Ruzious » Tue Apr 6, 2021 5:35 pm

payitforward wrote:
Ruzious wrote:Say you're Ujiri, and you're hired to do anything and everything you want - no restrictions. You can change the entire roster if you want - in your image. What do you end up with?

Sure, but... hired by what team?

Just jokin'....

What do you mean by "end up with?" I.e. over how much time?

I guess the place you start is by trading Chandler Hutchison to the Bulls for Troy Brown. Would they go for that, do you think?

Any team but Toronto. Gotta figure if he was interested in the tRapdoors, he would have traded Lowry.

And I am very... not serious.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL 

Post#1400 » by gambitx777 » Tue Apr 6, 2021 9:36 pm

Idk I mean I think that's a weird one like there is 0 reason why he should not have traded him
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payitforward wrote:
Ruzious wrote:Say you're Ujiri, and you're hired to do anything and everything you want - no restrictions. You can change the entire roster if you want - in your image. What do you end up with?

Sure, but... hired by what team?

Just jokin'....

What do you mean by "end up with?" I.e. over how much time?

I guess the place you start is by trading Chandler Hutchison to the Bulls for Troy Brown. Would they go for that, do you think?

Any team but Toronto. Gotta figure if he was interested in the tRapdoors, he would have traded Lowry.

And I am very... not serious.


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