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Official Trade Thread -- Part XL

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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL 

Post#1561 » by nate33 » Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:44 am

9 and 20 wrote:We are the team taking a flyer on Hutchison. Unless he performs, we're his second and last chance before permanent labeling as a minimum salary (at best) guy - and nobody trades second round picks for those guys.

Pretty much, this.

Hutchison is negative value. Nobody wants him at his $4M. We are stuck with him, or he will be used as ballast in a trade involving our pick. But I don't think we will trade the pick.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL 

Post#1562 » by 9 and 20 » Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:23 am

nate33 wrote:
9 and 20 wrote:I could definitely see them trading the pick, maybe together with Bryant. I think it would be for someone coming to end of their rookie deal. We almost traded for Markanen from the Bulls - maybe a sign and trade for him? Not sure what that trade would look like. He's not as good as Bertans now, but maybe the team believes in him. He's young, and checks the 'international' box.


I really don't think they'll trade Bryant. They consider him a "home grown" guy, one of their core. Remember, they signed Robin Lopez instead of guys like Noel or Tristian Thompson because Lopez was one of the few free agent centers who would agree to a one-year deal and to not complain about coming off the bench behind Bryant.

I think the tandem of Bryant and Gafford should work pretty well together going forward.


Yes, I agree, in theory they should work well together. And that last offseason, at least, they looked at him as 'their guy' and a core part of the team.

They've had some better rim protection this year, though, and it seems to have made a difference. So maybe they commit to defense over offense at C? The forwards on the team, except for Bonga, are all pretty meh defensively and another rookie won't change that. Having a (relatively) poor defensive C again next year is not great.

I don't know, even if they want to trade him, how much value he has with the knee injury and his contract expiring soon.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL 

Post#1563 » by payitforward » Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:17 pm

9 and 20 wrote:We are the team taking a flyer on Hutchison. Unless he performs, we're his second and last chance before permanent labeling as a minimum salary (at best) guy - and nobody trades second round picks for those guys...

I guess I'm hoping for the "3 strikes & you're out" rule, huh...? :)

9 and 20 wrote:...I could definitely see them trading the pick, maybe together with Bryant. I think it would be for someone coming to end of their rookie deal....

Huh.... A guy coming to the end of his rookie deal seems like the least likely target to me.

We would have no room to give that guy the big pay raise he'd have coming. Anyway, if we trade out of the upcoming draft we are done as a team for several years.

9 and 20 wrote:...We almost traded for Markanen from the Bulls - maybe a sign and trade for him? Not sure what that trade would look like. He's not as good as Bertans now, but maybe the team believes in him. He's young, and checks the 'international' box.

Nightmare....
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL 

Post#1564 » by gambitx777 » Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:22 pm

Trading rui right now would be a huge mistake Imo!

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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL 

Post#1565 » by payitforward » Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:43 pm

9 and 20 wrote:...They've had some better rim protection this year, ...and it seems to have made a difference.

??? Before Gafford got here?

9 and 20 wrote:So maybe they commit to defense over offense at C?

With the acquisition of Gafford, wouldn't you say that the need to add a defensive Center has lessened rather than increased?
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL 

Post#1566 » by Ruzious » Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:20 pm

payitforward wrote:
9 and 20 wrote:...They've had some better rim protection this year, ...and it seems to have made a difference.

??? Before Gafford got here?

9 and 20 wrote:So maybe they commit to defense over offense at C?

With the acquisition of Gafford, wouldn't you say that the need to add a defensive Center has lessened rather than increased?

I'm pretty sure that what he meant was - The trade for Gafford seemed to cause the better rim protection. Right?
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL 

Post#1567 » by nate33 » Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:24 pm

Ruzious wrote:
payitforward wrote:
9 and 20 wrote:...They've had some better rim protection this year, ...and it seems to have made a difference.

??? Before Gafford got here?

9 and 20 wrote:So maybe they commit to defense over offense at C?

With the acquisition of Gafford, wouldn't you say that the need to add a defensive Center has lessened rather than increased?

I'm pretty sure that what he meant was - The trade for Gafford seemed to cause the better rim protection. Right?

I think Lopez and Len protected the rim better than Bryant did. Gafford is even better.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL 

Post#1568 » by Ruzious » Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:33 pm

nate33 wrote:
Ruzious wrote:
payitforward wrote:??? Before Gafford got here?


With the acquisition of Gafford, wouldn't you say that the need to add a defensive Center has lessened rather than increased?

I'm pretty sure that what he meant was - The trade for Gafford seemed to cause the better rim protection. Right?

I think Lopez and Len protected the rim better than Bryant did. Gafford is even better.

Well, I wouldn't say that. Lopez, Len, and Bryant all have been poor protecting the rim. Actually, starting out the season, I thought Bryant did a better job at that than last season - though obviously don't know if he would have kept it up. Lopez is as stiff as they come and can't jump over a phone book, and Len is often a clown on D.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL 

Post#1569 » by nate33 » Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:44 pm

Ruzious wrote:
nate33 wrote:
Ruzious wrote:I'm pretty sure that what he meant was - The trade for Gafford seemed to cause the better rim protection. Right?

I think Lopez and Len protected the rim better than Bryant did. Gafford is even better.

Well, I wouldn't say that. Lopez, Len, and Bryant all have been poor protecting the rim. Actually, starting out the season, I thought Bryant did a better job at that than last season - though obviously don't know if he would have kept it up. Lopez is as stiff as they come and can't jump over a phone book, and Len is often a clown on D.

The team defense got better at almost precisely the moment that Bryant got hurt. It's possible that other factors were at play, but the timing is suspicious.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL 

Post#1570 » by Ruzious » Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:02 pm

nate33 wrote:
Ruzious wrote:
nate33 wrote:I think Lopez and Len protected the rim better than Bryant did. Gafford is even better.

Well, I wouldn't say that. Lopez, Len, and Bryant all have been poor protecting the rim. Actually, starting out the season, I thought Bryant did a better job at that than last season - though obviously don't know if he would have kept it up. Lopez is as stiff as they come and can't jump over a phone book, and Len is often a clown on D.

The team defense got better at almost precisely the moment that Bryant got hurt. It's possible that other factors were at play, but the timing is suspicious.

Bryant's DRPM this season is +2.24. http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/position/9 No doubt it would have fallen, but he must've been doing something right.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL 

Post#1571 » by NYG » Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:56 am

What would it take for the Wizards to feel comfortable trading Beal? If they offer an extension and he doesn't accept... is that enough to start looking or would you give it one more go with this team and hope it comes together next year?
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL 

Post#1572 » by 9 and 20 » Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:22 am

nate33 wrote:
Ruzious wrote:
nate33 wrote:I think Lopez and Len protected the rim better than Bryant did. Gafford is even better.

Well, I wouldn't say that. Lopez, Len, and Bryant all have been poor protecting the rim. Actually, starting out the season, I thought Bryant did a better job at that than last season - though obviously don't know if he would have kept it up. Lopez is as stiff as they come and can't jump over a phone book, and Len is often a clown on D.

The team defense got better at almost precisely the moment that Bryant got hurt. It's possible that other factors were at play, but the timing is suspicious.


Yes - I would agree with this, though more with Lopez than with Len. Lopez seems to defend the area around the rim better than Bryant. Not necessarily blocking shots, just taking up the right space. Bryant and even Len just seem to get caught out of position too much.

I'm not saying Lopez is an all-time great, or anything - just that he's better than Bryant at defending the rim, and you can see the impact of that as the team defends better.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL 

Post#1573 » by CntOutSmrtCrazy » Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:34 am

9 and 20 wrote:
nate33 wrote:
Ruzious wrote:Well, I wouldn't say that. Lopez, Len, and Bryant all have been poor protecting the rim. Actually, starting out the season, I thought Bryant did a better job at that than last season - though obviously don't know if he would have kept it up. Lopez is as stiff as they come and can't jump over a phone book, and Len is often a clown on D.

The team defense got better at almost precisely the moment that Bryant got hurt. It's possible that other factors were at play, but the timing is suspicious.


Yes - I would agree with this, though more with Lopez than with Len. Lopez seems to defend the area around the rim better than Bryant. Not necessarily blocking shots, just taking up the right space. Bryant and even Len just seem to get caught out of position too much.

I'm not saying Lopez is an all-time great, or anything - just that he's better than Bryant at defending the rim, and you can see the impact of that as the team defends better.


Let us not dance around it anymore, Bryant cannot and should not be the starting center for this team unless something drastic changes which I think is pure hopin-and-prayin at this point given the body of evidence. Bryant by-and-large seems like an empty stat guy. He has some performances that just knock you back (i.e., the perfect/near perfect games from the field in his first season here, the game against the Nets this season, the games were he looks like a legit threat from three, etc.) but then the bad comes and you just get that itching inclination that it's all fool's gold. Maybe I'm wrong and he'll get it, but I just haven't seen anything from him in terms of body language or development that would suggest otherwise. Hope I'm wrong.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL 

Post#1574 » by pcbothwel » Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:25 pm

NYG wrote:What would it take for the Wizards to feel comfortable trading Beal? If they offer an extension and he doesn't accept... is that enough to start looking or would you give it one more go with this team and hope it comes together next year?


For the Wizards organization? Nothing reasonable this offseason.
I think they run it back next year with a full offseason with the hope that Brooks is as bad of coach as we all assume. Russ and Beal are clearly the engine to it all, but their is belief that our depth is better than advertised and Brooks simply doesnt allow guys like Winston, Bonga, Mathews, etc. to contribute.

I fully expect that the path with be simple going into the ASB next year.
1) Be a playoff team and run the Beal train into the offseason
2) Crash and burn and trade him at the deadline
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL 

Post#1575 » by Ruzious » Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:55 pm

pcbothwel wrote:
NYG wrote:What would it take for the Wizards to feel comfortable trading Beal? If they offer an extension and he doesn't accept... is that enough to start looking or would you give it one more go with this team and hope it comes together next year?


For the Wizards organization? Nothing reasonable this offseason.
I think they run it back next year with a full offseason with the hope that Brooks is as bad of coach as we all assume. Russ and Beal are clearly the engine to it all, but their is belief that our depth is better than advertised and Brooks simply doesnt allow guys like Winston, Bonga, Mathews, etc. to contribute.

I fully expect that the path with be simple going into the ASB next year.
1) Be a playoff team and run the Beal train into the offseason
2) Crash and burn and trade him at the deadline

Beal's very loyal, but it's also not reasonable to expect him to stay if they don't have any success. So, they've gotta make the playoffs and make a decent showing in them. And they've gotta show some improvement next season. That might lead them to trade their pick for a veteran - because they'll assume Beal would want them to. Otoh, with salary cap restraints, that might not be realistic or smart, but a young veteran still in his rookie contract might be what they try to acquire.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL 

Post#1576 » by DCZards » Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:50 pm

Ruzious wrote:Well, I wouldn't say that. Lopez, Len, and Bryant all have been poor protecting the rim. Actually, starting out the season, I thought Bryant did a better job at that than last season - though obviously don't know if he would have kept it up. Lopez is as stiff as they come and can't jump over a phone book, and Len is often a clown on D.

Bryant started playing better D in the bubble and it did indeed carry over into the start of the season. Thomas is never gonna be a great defender or rim protector but he was getting better.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL 

Post#1577 » by payitforward » Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:41 pm

CntOutSmrtCrazy wrote:
9 and 20 wrote:
nate33 wrote:The team defense got better at almost precisely the moment that Bryant got hurt. It's possible that other factors were at play, but the timing is suspicious.


Yes - I would agree with this, though more with Lopez than with Len. Lopez seems to defend the area around the rim better than Bryant. Not necessarily blocking shots, just taking up the right space. Bryant and even Len just seem to get caught out of position too much.

I'm not saying Lopez is an all-time great, or anything - just that he's better than Bryant at defending the rim, and you can see the impact of that as the team defends better.

Let us not dance around it anymore, Bryant cannot and should not be the starting center for this team unless something drastic changes which I think is pure hopin-and-prayin at this point given the body of evidence. Bryant by-and-large seems like an empty stat guy. He has some performances that just knock you back (i.e., the perfect/near perfect games from the field in his first season here, the game against the Nets this season, the games were he looks like a legit threat from three, etc.) but then the bad comes and you just get that itching inclination that it's all fool's gold. Maybe I'm wrong and he'll get it, but I just haven't seen anything from him in terms of body language or development that would suggest otherwise. Hope I'm wrong.

Lucky you, your hope has come true. You are wrong about Bryant. Front to back & top to bottom.

Bryant is NOT a good defender, that is true. But, he's not as bad as people seem to want to say he is. & he is an outstanding offensive player. Overall, at his salary, he is one of the best players we have on the team.

What does it mean to describe "the games where he looks like a legit threat from three" when last year he shot it at almost 41%?? This year he started out at 43%. He also blocks 35% more shots than an average NBA Center.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL 

Post#1578 » by nate33 » Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:45 pm

payitforward wrote:
CntOutSmrtCrazy wrote:Let us not dance around it anymore, Bryant cannot and should not be the starting center for this team unless something drastic changes which I think is pure hopin-and-prayin at this point given the body of evidence. Bryant by-and-large seems like an empty stat guy. He has some performances that just knock you back (i.e., the perfect/near perfect games from the field in his first season here, the game against the Nets this season, the games were he looks like a legit threat from three, etc.) but then the bad comes and you just get that itching inclination that it's all fool's gold. Maybe I'm wrong and he'll get it, but I just haven't seen anything from him in terms of body language or development that would suggest otherwise. Hope I'm wrong.

Lucky you, your hope has come true. You are wrong about Bryant. Front to back & top to bottom.

Bryant is NOT a good defender, that is true. But, he's not as bad as people seem to want to say he is. & he is an outstanding offensive player. Overall, at his salary, he is one of the best players we have on the team.

What does it mean to describe "the games where he looks like a legit threat from three" when last year he shot it at almost 41%?? This year he started out at 43%. He also blocks 35% more shots than an average NBA Center.

I get the argument that we can't win with Bryant as a starter. But I disagree completely with the notion that he is empty stats fools gold. Bryant is an exceptional offensive player. His absence is a big reason why our offense went from 15th last year to 26th this year. I very much want Bryant back next year as a 22 mpg backup center to help carry the 2nd unit offense. Gafford can start and play about 26 minutes a game.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL 

Post#1579 » by gambitx777 » Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:47 pm

It makes perfect sense to pai bryant with Gafford. You young talented bigs with a niche. It doesn't really matter who you start as long as the HC subs and works the minutes properly !
nate33 wrote:
payitforward wrote:
CntOutSmrtCrazy wrote:Let us not dance around it anymore, Bryant cannot and should not be the starting center for this team unless something drastic changes which I think is pure hopin-and-prayin at this point given the body of evidence. Bryant by-and-large seems like an empty stat guy. He has some performances that just knock you back (i.e., the perfect/near perfect games from the field in his first season here, the game against the Nets this season, the games were he looks like a legit threat from three, etc.) but then the bad comes and you just get that itching inclination that it's all fool's gold. Maybe I'm wrong and he'll get it, but I just haven't seen anything from him in terms of body language or development that would suggest otherwise. Hope I'm wrong.

Lucky you, your hope has come true. You are wrong about Bryant. Front to back & top to bottom.

Bryant is NOT a good defender, that is true. But, he's not as bad as people seem to want to say he is. & he is an outstanding offensive player. Overall, at his salary, he is one of the best players we have on the team.

What does it mean to describe "the games where he looks like a legit threat from three" when last year he shot it at almost 41%?? This year he started out at 43%. He also blocks 35% more shots than an average NBA Center.

I get the argument that we can't win with Bryant as a starter. But I disagree completely with the notion that he is empty stats fools gold. Bryant is an exceptional offensive player. His absence is a big reason why our offense went from 15th last year to 26th this year. I very much want Bryant back next year as a 22 mpg backup center to help carry the 2nd unit offense. Gafford can start and play about 26 minutes a game.


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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL 

Post#1580 » by likwitdesi » Thu Apr 22, 2021 6:14 pm

nate33 wrote:
payitforward wrote:
CntOutSmrtCrazy wrote:Let us not dance around it anymore, Bryant cannot and should not be the starting center for this team unless something drastic changes which I think is pure hopin-and-prayin at this point given the body of evidence. Bryant by-and-large seems like an empty stat guy. He has some performances that just knock you back (i.e., the perfect/near perfect games from the field in his first season here, the game against the Nets this season, the games were he looks like a legit threat from three, etc.) but then the bad comes and you just get that itching inclination that it's all fool's gold. Maybe I'm wrong and he'll get it, but I just haven't seen anything from him in terms of body language or development that would suggest otherwise. Hope I'm wrong.

Lucky you, your hope has come true. You are wrong about Bryant. Front to back & top to bottom.

Bryant is NOT a good defender, that is true. But, he's not as bad as people seem to want to say he is. & he is an outstanding offensive player. Overall, at his salary, he is one of the best players we have on the team.

What does it mean to describe "the games where he looks like a legit threat from three" when last year he shot it at almost 41%?? This year he started out at 43%. He also blocks 35% more shots than an average NBA Center.

I get the argument that we can't win with Bryant as a starter. But I disagree completely with the notion that he is empty stats fools gold. Bryant is an exceptional offensive player. His absence is a big reason why our offense went from 15th last year to 26th this year. I very much want Bryant back next year as a 22 mpg backup center to help carry the 2nd unit offense. Gafford can start and play about 26 minutes a game.


I believe next year is the last year of his deal. If Ted is strict about the luxury tax and with Rui's contract coming up, I hope they let him go or move him

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