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Official Trade Thread -- Part XL

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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL 

Post#1921 » by Dat2U » Thu Jun 3, 2021 11:02 am

My desire would be to keep Beal, deal Westy to the Clips or Knicks and retool with a defensive minded coach.

I'd consider a Beal trade but only for a top 3 pick, a crazy trade offer or if he refuses to extend.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL 

Post#1922 » by gambitx777 » Thu Jun 3, 2021 12:23 pm

Let's talk about that dat.

So for one. Barret has improved every year so far. He's bringing a capable defender and a solid young SG with good size and ok enough handles. He's improving. Quickly was a gem in the draft he's absolutely out playing his draft spot. Toppin is struggling but he was a good athletic defender in college and he had good 3 pt range and % at Daytona with some effort and development that could come back.

I absolutely detest the idea of trading beal for a single "top 3 pick" there are plateny of players taken top three that I wouldn't ever trade beal for. I would rather have more picks and trust that we can use those as capital and make good choices in the draft to get good young assets.

I don't see a team with a super high pick that beal would A want to go to or B can take him.

They teams I look at who could use beal, beal could be happy playing at and take him on would be NYK, NO, MEM, that's like it. The heat do not have the capital the Lakers and the clippers don't have the capital. GS does but I just don't like the idea of taking Wiggins and hoping that Wiseman and 1 high pick pans out. NYK, NO and MEM have tons of picks and young talented to trade and hoenstly if we can some how get off westbrrok and Bertans along the way I'm in with taking a ton of picks and young players and building the mem/Atlanta/76ers way

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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL 

Post#1923 » by Ruzious » Thu Jun 3, 2021 12:51 pm

Any thoughts on what are the odds that either or both Beal and Westbrook will be traded? I think it's less than 10%. Teams just won't offer what we'd like. Then again, I didn't think Wall would be traded, so what do I know?
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL 

Post#1924 » by pcbothwel » Thu Jun 3, 2021 12:58 pm

Ruzious wrote:Any thoughts on what are the odds that either or both Beal and Westbrook will be traded? I think it's less than 10%. Teams just won't offer what we'd like. Then again, I didn't think Wall would be traded, so what do I know?


Agreed.
I just dont see the appetite for moving Russ unless we are REALLY blowing it up. Makes sense on paper, but I think Beal would be put off by moving Wall for Russ, then Russ for parts all in 12 months.
He'll want winning and stability, and that does neither.

I think if TS is retained, he's main move will be getting a new coach in here. Its simply too hard to assess how far away we are with an anchor like Brooks.

Russ, Beal, Rui, Deni, Bryant, Gafford, Mathews, Bertans... there is talent here this is either misused or not used at all.
Add in the 15th pick and try and steal a solid player with the MLE... then who knows.

I think TS will wait until the deadline for any real trade of consequence.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL 

Post#1925 » by Dat2U » Thu Jun 3, 2021 1:31 pm

gambitx777 wrote:
I absolutely detest the idea of trading beal for a single "top 3 pick" there are plateny of players taken top three that I wouldn't ever trade beal for. I would rather have more picks and trust that we can use those as capital and make good choices in the draft to get good young assets.



No one has ever suggested trading Beal for a single pick. A top 3 pick would be part of larger package.

You don't think Beal has that type of value, fine. I'd prefer to keep him then.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL 

Post#1926 » by NatP4 » Thu Jun 3, 2021 1:53 pm

Dat2U wrote:My desire would be to keep Beal, deal Westy to the Clips or Knicks and retool with a defensive minded coach.

I'd consider a Beal trade but only for a top 3 pick, a crazy trade offer or if he refuses to extend.


I’m all for moving Beal for a pick that lands you Jalen Suggs or even Cade Cunningham.

I think Beal is an all star piece, but not a MVP level player. He doesn’t help you much on the defensive end and he’s only got a few more years in his prime. Moving Beal for a 20 year old future star on a rookie deal would be a smart move.

Something like Beal to Toronto for the 2nd/3rd pick which you turn into Suggs in combination with some kind of trade up for whatever pick gets you Josh Giddey in the 8-14 range (or even 15 but I doubt it).

You can either move Westbrook to one of the teams with numerous expiring contracts or let him play out his deal here and leave, but a new coach is a MUST.

Re-tooling around Gafford-Giddey-Suggs-Avdija-Hachimura and a ton of cap space within the next couple of seasons.

This scenario hasn’t been discussed much lately on this board, probably because of the late season run, but I think it’s far more likely than people realize, especially with a GM like Sheppard. There is NO chance that Sheppard re signs Brooks if it is even up to him. If Beal and Westbrook can’t get behind it, major changes will occur one way or the other.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL 

Post#1927 » by NatP4 » Thu Jun 3, 2021 1:57 pm

Ruzious wrote:Any thoughts on what are the odds that either or both Beal and Westbrook will be traded? I think it's less than 10%. Teams just won't offer what we'd like. Then again, I didn't think Wall would be traded, so what do I know?


I’m saying 40% on Beal depending on which win now teams land a top pick and whether or not Beal publicly requests a trade.

10% on Westbrook because he’s awful and on a terrible contract, but he might request out if Brooks doesn’t return, which he won’t.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL 

Post#1928 » by Dat2U » Thu Jun 3, 2021 2:07 pm

pcbothwel wrote:
Ruzious wrote:Any thoughts on what are the odds that either or both Beal and Westbrook will be traded? I think it's less than 10%. Teams just won't offer what we'd like. Then again, I didn't think Wall would be traded, so what do I know?


Agreed.
I just dont see the appetite for moving Russ unless we are REALLY blowing it up. Makes sense on paper, but I think Beal would be put off by moving Wall for Russ, then Russ for parts all in 12 months.
He'll want winning and stability, and that does neither.

I think if TS is retained, he's main move will be getting a new coach in here. Its simply too hard to assess how far away we are with an anchor like Brooks.

Russ, Beal, Rui, Deni, Bryant, Gafford, Mathews, Bertans... there is talent here this is either misused or not used at all.
Add in the 15th pick and try and steal a solid player with the MLE... then who knows.

I think TS will wait until the deadline for any real trade of consequence.


I agree. We're running it back. With Deni, Bryant & Gafford for a full season it's a 45 win team at least. We're a completely different team post-Gafford trade. I don't think Westbrook's game is built for postseason success so I feel the ceiling is capped unless he's a 3rd or 4th option offensively.

The national media states our need a 3rd scorer and I know Wizards want Rui in that role but all honesty they need another alpha scorer (1st or 2nd option) that will shots away from Westy and turn him into a complementary offensive piece if they are to raise this team's ceiling.

Obviously, only a handful of guys fit that criteria. Only 1st option that might be available is Karl Anthony Towns and it's hard to imagine Rui, Deni & some picks getting in it done.

Hardly any second options available either. If the Clips bust then maybe Paul George becomes available or if Toronto decides to rebuild and Pascal Siakam hits the market. A lower tier 2nd option like John Collins may be available via S&T that's out of the price range. Then there's my guy, Christian Wood but of course Houston may not necessarily be looking to move him. A sleeper pick is Domantas Sabonis but Shepp seems to love Bryant.

More than likely though we kick tires on 3rd option types like Kristaps Porzingis, Lauri Markkanen, Jerami Grant & Norman Powell.

The one I'd deeply worry about them making is a move for Demar DeRozan which I think is a terrible fit with Westbrook.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL 

Post#1929 » by NatP4 » Thu Jun 3, 2021 2:12 pm

Norman Powell would be a nice pickup.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL 

Post#1930 » by gambitx777 » Thu Jun 3, 2021 2:33 pm

There are tons of posts that state I'll trade beal if we get a top 5 pick and oh Wiggins Wiseman and that top pick is fair and on and on we go, because teams arnt going to trade you a top 3-5 pick and 4 more firsts. I think beal has tons of value , I just value different things than you, obviously. I don't put stock heavily into trading for high picks when we will have a year or two of a high pick for our own team. I value scouting and number of chances to get that right. So when I say I want 5 future first and a bunch of seconds in a trade that's because I think those things are very valuable when used correctly. The issue isn't me thinking beal doesnt have value, I just value different things than you do obviously, it's just a difference in opinion.

Personally I'd be fine just going at it another year with this and beal and trying to re tool, I love beal and I love trying to win. I'm just talking about if we trade him.
Dat2U wrote:
gambitx777 wrote:
I absolutely detest the idea of trading beal for a single "top 3 pick" there are plateny of players taken top three that I wouldn't ever trade beal for. I would rather have more picks and trust that we can use those as capital and make good choices in the draft to get good young assets.



No one has ever suggested trading Beal for a single pick. A top 3 pick would be part of larger package.

You don't think Beal has that type of value, fine. I'd prefer to keep him then.


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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL 

Post#1931 » by Ruzious » Thu Jun 3, 2021 2:45 pm

NatP4 wrote:Norman Powell would be a nice pickup.

I've always been a big fan of his - just not sure how we can afford him.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL 

Post#1932 » by payitforward » Thu Jun 3, 2021 3:57 pm

pcbothwel wrote:
Ruzious wrote:Any thoughts on what are the odds that either or both Beal and Westbrook will be traded? I think it's less than 10%. Teams just won't offer what we'd like. Then again, I didn't think Wall would be traded, so what do I know?

Agreed.
I just dont see the appetite for moving Russ unless we are REALLY blowing it up. Makes sense on paper, but I think Beal would be put off by moving Wall for Russ, then Russ for parts all in 12 months.
He'll want winning and stability, and that does neither....

You're probably right about what Beal wants, but it's not about that. It's about what Ted Leonsis wants. Russ is a big-time draw; he's not going anywhere.

Now, if Beal doesn't re-up, all bets are off -- but until that moment nothing "big" is going to happen. Including no pie-in-the-sky dream of "a third star," sorry. We can't possibly afford one, & anyway there isn't a player I can imagine us getting who would suddenly turn us into a title contender.

pcbothwel wrote:...I think if TS is retained, he's main move will be getting a new coach in here....

I sure hope he's retained! Tommy has made some mistakes, but overall he's done a good job in only 2 years.

pcbothwel wrote:...Its simply too hard to assess how far away we are with an anchor like Brooks....

We were beaten pretty easily last night by a Sixers team without Joel Embiid. I'm no fan of Brooks, but he didn't cost us the game. Nor would I over-value the fact that we beat the Sixers in 1 game at home. They came into that game up 3-1 in the series, & teams like to close out at home.

So, I don't think it's hard "to assess how far away we are...." We're pretty far away.
pcbothwel wrote:...Russ, Beal, Rui, Deni, Bryant, Gafford, Mathews, Bertans... there is talent here that is either misused or not used at all.
Add in the 15th pick and try and steal a solid player with the MLE... then who knows....

Well, you are consistent from year to year, that's for sure! In your mind, we are always much better than our record. Good for you!

Still, I agree: we need to make a really good pick at #15 (& acquire a R2 pick that will let us make another really good pick). & we need to acquire the best other player we can with whatever cap room we have.

IOW, pretty much the same goals as any other year. :)

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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL 

Post#1933 » by Dark Faze » Thu Jun 3, 2021 5:34 pm

Bertans to the Knicks for #32? They could absorb his salary straight up and they need shooting.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL 

Post#1934 » by TGW » Thu Jun 3, 2021 6:12 pm

As much as I don't care for his game, I think Harrison Barnes could potentially be a decent fill-in at small forward until Avidja takes it from him. He hits the three and is a decent defender.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL 

Post#1935 » by NatP4 » Thu Jun 3, 2021 6:16 pm

Dark Faze wrote:Bertans to the Knicks for #32? They could absorb his salary straight up and they need shooting.


I don’t get why we would do that. Bertans is a good player. We can just buy one of those picks.

This team has plenty of problems, Bertans is not one of them IMO.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL 

Post#1936 » by Ruzious » Thu Jun 3, 2021 6:20 pm

Dark Faze wrote:Bertans to the Knicks for #32? They could absorb his salary straight up and they need shooting.

Should we go deeper into NY? They were just whipped by Atlanta, and their best player had a Westbrook-like shooting performance - under 30% for the series by Randle. Any chance they over-react and sell Randle cheap - for Rui, Bertans, and the 15th pick?
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL 

Post#1937 » by nate33 » Thu Jun 3, 2021 6:32 pm

gambitx777 wrote:So here is a trade I thought up and I think it works money wise with the NYK having like 60+ mill in cap room this coming summer.

Wiz out: beal, Bertans , Bryant , Russ

Wiz in : Quickly (NYK), Barrett (NYK), Toppin (NYK), kennard (LAC) , Zubac ( LAC) 2021 Mavs first (NYK) 2021 pistons 2ed (NYK) 2022 NYK first( NYK) 2023 Mavs first ( NYK) 2023 pistons second (NYK), 2024 pistons second (LAC), 2025 pistons second (LAC), 2026 pistons second (LAC)

LAC out: kennard , Zubac, Morris, Beverly, 2024 pistons second, 2025 pistons second, 2026 pistons second.

LAC in: Russ, Bryant.

NYK out : Quickly (NYK), Barrett (NYK), Toppin (NYK), 2021 Mavs first (NYK) 2021 pistons 2ed (NYK) 2022 NYK first( NYK) 2023 Mavs first ( NYK) 2023 pistons second (NYK).

NYK in: Beal, Bertans, Morris, Beverly.

Now a few exainera here. I think this trade works for everyone involved

LAC, they put a big three together and swap Zubac with Bryant. The picks they give up are extras and they don't burn a first this year. Morris and kennarda contracts are not gonna be easy to move so this takes care of that and they've wanted Bev gone since the bubble.

NYK, they loose some young players but beal, Morris and Bev replace Barret toppin and quickly and Bertans is the sharp shooter this team was missing. They give up only one pick of their own in the deal, and while taking on some over blow vet contracts it adds depth to the team and getting beal with rose and randle is a sure top 4 seed for years to come. That has tons of cap space this year and this doesn't completely kill their flexibility either, they are still miles away from the tax with the mid and bi exceptions to burn.

For the wiz, well this is hitting the reset button and I know a lot of you are not fans of quantity over quality but. This gets our cap clear of Russ and Bertans gets use plenty of draft ammo and some decent young players. Quickly and Barret have a lot of potential. Zubac is solid and kennard is over paid but he has one less year than Bertans garunteed and he could turn it around at 25. Toppin is young as well. With cap room and capital we can go and trade for a guy like wood or grant or other dectn players to help other teams clear cap and maybe gather more assets. Those piston seconds should continue to be high, and should show the value of seconds, look were det is now. I know y'all don't like late first but this trade could be really good for the team going forward.




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I'd cut out NY and just make the Westbrook to LA trade. I'd then try and flip Morris and Beverly to anyone who would offer a smaller, shorter contract.

I'd be open-minded to trading Beal after that, but I'd be looking for quality, not quantity. Barrett and a bunch of late 1sts doesn't thrill me.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL 

Post#1938 » by Ruzious » Thu Jun 3, 2021 6:45 pm

Dark Faze wrote:Bertans to the Knicks for #32? They could absorb his salary straight up and they need shooting.

Or... how aboot #15 and Bertans for 19, 21, and 32? We pick Butler, Duarte, and Petrusev.

Mann, Murphy, and Ayayi?
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL 

Post#1939 » by wall_glizzy » Thu Jun 3, 2021 7:19 pm

Ruzious wrote:
Dark Faze wrote:Bertans to the Knicks for #32? They could absorb his salary straight up and they need shooting.

Should we go deeper into NY? They were just whipped by Atlanta, and their best player had a Westbrook-like shooting performance - under 30% for the series by Randle. Any chance they over-react and sell Randle cheap - for Rui, Bertans, and the 15th pick?


no
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XL 

Post#1940 » by gambitx777 » Thu Jun 3, 2021 9:44 pm

I'm totally on board for doing that too! I just don't know who we would ultimately flip them too?
nate33 wrote:
gambitx777 wrote:So here is a trade I thought up and I think it works money wise with the NYK having like 60+ mill in cap room this coming summer.

Wiz out: beal, Bertans , Bryant , Russ

Wiz in : Quickly (NYK), Barrett (NYK), Toppin (NYK), kennard (LAC) , Zubac ( LAC) 2021 Mavs first (NYK) 2021 pistons 2ed (NYK) 2022 NYK first( NYK) 2023 Mavs first ( NYK) 2023 pistons second (NYK), 2024 pistons second (LAC), 2025 pistons second (LAC), 2026 pistons second (LAC)

LAC out: kennard , Zubac, Morris, Beverly, 2024 pistons second, 2025 pistons second, 2026 pistons second.

LAC in: Russ, Bryant.

NYK out : Quickly (NYK), Barrett (NYK), Toppin (NYK), 2021 Mavs first (NYK) 2021 pistons 2ed (NYK) 2022 NYK first( NYK) 2023 Mavs first ( NYK) 2023 pistons second (NYK).

NYK in: Beal, Bertans, Morris, Beverly.

Now a few exainera here. I think this trade works for everyone involved

LAC, they put a big three together and swap Zubac with Bryant. The picks they give up are extras and they don't burn a first this year. Morris and kennarda contracts are not gonna be easy to move so this takes care of that and they've wanted Bev gone since the bubble.

NYK, they loose some young players but beal, Morris and Bev replace Barret toppin and quickly and Bertans is the sharp shooter this team was missing. They give up only one pick of their own in the deal, and while taking on some over blow vet contracts it adds depth to the team and getting beal with rose and randle is a sure top 4 seed for years to come. That has tons of cap space this year and this doesn't completely kill their flexibility either, they are still miles away from the tax with the mid and bi exceptions to burn.

For the wiz, well this is hitting the reset button and I know a lot of you are not fans of quantity over quality but. This gets our cap clear of Russ and Bertans gets use plenty of draft ammo and some decent young players. Quickly and Barret have a lot of potential. Zubac is solid and kennard is over paid but he has one less year than Bertans garunteed and he could turn it around at 25. Toppin is young as well. With cap room and capital we can go and trade for a guy like wood or grant or other dectn players to help other teams clear cap and maybe gather more assets. Those piston seconds should continue to be high, and should show the value of seconds, look were det is now. I know y'all don't like late first but this trade could be really good for the team going forward.




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I'd cut out NY and just make the Westbrook to LA trade. I'd then try and flip Morris and Beverly to anyone who would offer a smaller, shorter contract.

I'd be open-minded to trading Beal after that, but I'd be looking for quality, not quantity. Barrett and a bunch of late 1sts doesn't thrill me.


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