NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 5

Post #1321 » by **montestewart** » Fri Jun 2, 2023 4:18 pm

nate33 wrote:
Zonkerbl wrote:I don't think the Heat will win a single game. The nuggets will crush them.

Yeah, this should be a pretty easy series for Denver. They're just too good.

But I'm not going to overlook Miami's character, coaching, and capacity to get hot from 3. They'll win at least 1. I'm guessing it'll be a gentlemen's sweep: 4-1.

Ha ha, gentleman’s sweep, never heard that one.

dobrojim · Post #1322 » by **dobrojim** » Fri Jun 2, 2023 4:45 pm

The thing about Jokic I find fascinating is even when he's running, he doesn't
appear to have pro athlete level footspeed or quickness. It is clear that he's in
great aerobic shape. And he's big and has great fundamentals. He also understands
how to recognize his opponents vulnerabilities and exploit them. Where does he
rank among great Cs I've seen play going back to the late 60s? I'd say he's the
best since at least prime Jabbar. Yeah, better than Shaq. Or Adm, or Ewing.
A little reminiscent of Tim Duncan (C?) but better.

Maybe his greatest strength is making his teammates much better than they
might be on a Joker-less team. He must take particular pride in that. He doesn't
have to be the leading scorer as long as his team wins.

At the risk of overreacting to one game, it's really hard to see how MIA
wins more than a game or 2 at most. Certainly MIA's role players, looking at you
Strus, have to be better. Bam and Vincent were the only ones who played
that great for MIA. Lowry was decent too. If Spo can engineer a Heat chip,
he immediately moves up even further among his fellow coaches.

Post #1323 » by **Zonkerbl** » Fri Jun 2, 2023 4:52 pm

Vincent got absolutely TORCHED on defense

Aaron Gordon absolutely lit him up in the first half, I think they had to take him off AG for the second half

FAH1223 · Post #1324 » by **FAH1223** » Sat Jun 3, 2023 9:45 pm

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Post #1325 » by **Zonkerbl** » Mon Jun 5, 2023 12:48 am

Miami is a team of Juan dixons

Post #1326 » by **Zonkerbl** » Mon Jun 5, 2023 2:11 am

Erik Spoelstra's team seems to get a good burst after every stoppage in play. His coaching gives them a good 5-10 extra points a game, seems like.

Post #1327 » by **Zonkerbl** » Mon Jun 5, 2023 2:48 am

wow and then just back to back to back to back to back three point plays. That is not winning defense on Denver's part. Miami wins the game by hustling after a miss and playing bad defense, lingering around the three point line when they should be back in transition, works out for them converting a missed shot into a made 3. I mean it's good d if you get the offensive rebound I guess but wow what a huge gamble. I guess that's bad d on Denver's part, secure the rebound first before releasing down the court. If I'm the Denver coach I'd emphasize that - we are not a run and gun team. Everybody stay home and get the rebound. Murray got impatient, took off early, couldn't get back in time to defend the three, ballgame.

I wonder if Denver's success in the first game was entirely Spoelstra stupidly putting Vincent on Aaron Gordon which allowed Gordon to explode for 10 points early and force Miami to play from behind the entire game. Take away Aaron Gordon's inside dominance over a player six inches shorter and you get a game like today. Put Kevin Love out there on him, you know Aaron's not going to shoot over him from the outside, he's not that kind of player. Although he did hit a three late. 35% three point shooter, I'll take that I guess over shooting 95% on inside postups. Good game from Love today though.

I don't know why I can't root for Miami. Normally I love these underdog playing with heart teams. I just can't stand Jimmy Butler though. More power to him, that's the kind of player he is, he's not out here to make friends. I just think watching Jokic play is so hilarious. I want his team to be successful. Even if he is Serbian and I'm working on a project in Kosovo. Serbians being pro-Putin and being jerks to Kosovo is not his fault. I guess. Anyway, up with Euroball!

gambitx777 · Post #1328 » by **gambitx777** » Mon Jun 5, 2023 5:05 am

Zonkerbl wrote:Erik Spoelstra's team seems to get a good burst after every stoppage in play. His coaching gives them a good 5-10 extra points a game, seems like.

And when he makes a mistake he rarly makes it twice. It's really a show how how continuity it's so important. A lot of teams would have fired spulstra. But with pat having a job till the day he dies it's a really stable situation.

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Dark Faze · Post #1329 » by **Dark Faze** » Mon Jun 5, 2023 1:53 pm

I think the takeaway from Miami is that the typical notion of strong perimeter defenders is overrated in the modern NBA. If you have an elite switchable big like Bam, then you can get away with multiple "weak" perimeter defenders IF the effort level and commitment and understanding of the defensive scheme is high.

The more threes teams shoot, the less physical ability is needed to defend that sort of thing and the more attention to detail and effort is needed, because being Kawhi Leonard or prime Scotty Pippen is not particularly helpful when 3's are being launched in extremely narrow shooting windows.

I think Denver still wins the series, but it's something to consider in terms of our approach to team building. You can get a lot of try hard guys that can shoot the ball for cheap in the NBA.

At the same time, I don't think Miami showed this level of shooting during the regular season either.

gambitx777 · Post #1330 » by **gambitx777** » Mon Jun 5, 2023 3:39 pm

Can they continue to force joker into being less of a play maker for his team. That's the big thing. Will Tyler hero play? Man this is such a. Good series. It's very possible when they go back to Denver in game 5 that the heat are up 3-1.

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FAH1223 · Post #1331 » by **FAH1223** » Thu Jun 8, 2023 3:38 am

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Post #1332 » by **nate33** » Thu Jun 8, 2023 1:13 pm

The amazing thing is that this isn't some kind of hot streak for Jokic. If he plays 40 minutes, he is going to average a 30 point triple double. It's what he does.

I've been most impressed with his stamina. Very few guys that size can play 40+ minutes. Jokic is averaging 41 minutes a game in the playoffs (if you ignore two blowout wins back in April). And he usually looks just as good in the 4th quarter as he does in the 1st.

Post #1333 » by **nate33** » Thu Jun 8, 2023 1:25 pm

Take a look at Jokic's basketball reference page and marvel at the absolute absurdity of his stats. He has led the league in every summary metric for 3 years:

Look at his on/off differential, for goodness sake!

The most preposterous statistic is him posting a 70.1% TS% this year on 25 points a game. C'mon now. Is this even real?

payitforward · Post #1334 » by **payitforward** » Thu Jun 8, 2023 1:35 pm

100% -- you could just india-ink him in as MVP every year. I'm pretty sure I've never seen anything like it for dominance.

Dark Faze · Post #1335 » by **Dark Faze** » Thu Jun 8, 2023 2:20 pm

Just want to throw some credit Murrays way as well. He's been incredible. As a second option he's averaging 26/10/7 on near 50/40/90 splits. Numbers were even better in the conference finals.

Real Shaq and Kobe stuff. Also props to Gordon for showing great consistency as well.

Post #1336 » by **Zonkerbl** » Thu Jun 8, 2023 2:23 pm

nate33 wrote:Take a look at Jokic's basketball reference page and marvel at the absolute absurdity of his stats. He has led the league in every summary metric for 3 years:

Look at his on/off differential, for goodness sake!

The most preposterous statistic is him posting a 70.1% TS% this year on 25 points a game. C'mon now. Is this even real?

One of the all time greatest to play the game, and he looks (and plays) like a stretched out pillsbury doughboy. So awesome.

dobrojim · Post #1337 » by **dobrojim** » Thu Jun 8, 2023 3:08 pm

Capt Obvious says if DEN pays attention to playing D, there's no way MIA can win.
This may not exactly be revelatory, but when MIA loses, it's typically because their
offense didn't get it done. They've been held under 100 or barely above in most of
their losses. When DEN loses, it's more likely their D that let them down.

late edit to add - again, none of this is at all surprising given that MIA's
offense was so poor during the regular season.

Kanyewest · Post #1338 » by **Kanyewest** » Fri Jun 9, 2023 8:08 pm

Butler has to pick it up. He's only averaging 20.7 ppg, 6.7 APG, and 4.3 RPG so far against Denver. He's only getting to the free throw line 3.7 times per game.

It also seems like Denver's half court offense being so good makes it harder for the Heat to get easy buckets like they were doing against other Eastern Conference teams.

Post #1339 » by **Zonkerbl** » Sat Jun 10, 2023 2:44 am

Jimmy Butler commits an offensive foul every drive to the basket he makes. Every single time. I hate how this gets called or not right now.

Post #1340 » by **nate33** » Sat Jun 10, 2023 2:50 am

Just outrageous flopping by Miami on almost every possession. Guys are flipping their heads back and falling down on every screen. Even the European soccer players watching this have their mouths agape in disbelief.

That 5th foul they called on Jokic was criminal.