Rui vs. Deni. Deni vs. Rui.

[Frichuela]

What a difference watching Memphis ball movement vs the ISO crap run by the Wiz

[Ruzious]

This is called creating a narrative and then cherry picking evidence to fit a narrative. It's due to confirmation bias - i.e. our tendency to seek out only evidence that fits our narrative.

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

If you are already biased, you should try to shy away from using anecdotal evidence. You are going to key in on evidence that supports your argument.

I've already posted a bunch of stats today showing that he hasn't played good defense this season. If you took a second to look, yhou would have seen that. You're the one doing the cherry-picking. And If you seriously buy that Kawhi Leonard comp that you linked to, you don't know the difference between a basketball and your arse - which appears to be the case. Next time you feel the need to take a cheap shot at someone, take a look before you post.

That's a pretty unfair retort, Ruzious.

prime1time posted legit numbers to backup his point that Rui is a very good on ball defender. They're not cherry-picked. Defensive stats are hard to come by.

We all know that Rui's help defense and rebounding aren't nearly as good. That's what stats like DRtg and DREB% show. My thinking is that a player can improve in help defense with experience. It's mostly mental. But the physical ability to guard in space is heavily dependent on length, athleticism, and reflexes. It really can't be taught.

You're obviously not understanding why I made that post, and I think you're way overrating Rui's abilities, and I'll leave it at that.

[payitforward]

You are really getting into the weeds though because both players project to be the same tier. They have skills but they likely won't be elite at creating. In this scenario, the situation that they are in and the role that they are asked to play will really define how much success they will eventually have. At the end of the day, it is simply way too early to answer this question in any kind of objective way. Both players have major hurdles to overcome before they can be considered legit NBA players.

Kinda sums it up for me as well.

For sure -- that's a given for Rui. & if for Rui all the more for a rookie who's much younger.

But, I knew that when I created the thread -- no definitive answer. Just maybe "wisdom of the crowd," as it were.

[payitforward]

And I think people were way to quick to conclude Rui was going to be a big-time perimeter defender after the game against the Lakers. Lebron was just tired that game. In the Boston game, remember when Lopez got posterized by Tatum... that was on Rui - who played matador guarding Tatum - basically giving him a free running start.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/261686/Rival-Exec-Celtics-Will-Only-Trade-If-They-Think-Theyre-Going-To-Bury-You on the second video, 12 second mark.

This is called creating a narrative and then cherry picking evidence to fit a narrative. It's due to confirmation bias - i.e. our tendency to seek out only evidence that fits our narrative.

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

If you are already biased, you should try to shy away from using anecdotal evidence. You are going to key in on evidence that supports your argument.

This is maybe not the thread for an argument of this kind, but actually I'd say you just gave evidence of being the one displaying confirmation bias -- those 2 tweets.

[payitforward]

Running more than 2 to 1 Deni over Rui (not that they are in competition anywhere but in this poll I created).

Of course, one could be better than the other with neither of them being particularly good! Let's hope that's not how it turns out....

[ruffian253]

What a difference watching Memphis ball movement vs the ISO crap run by the Wiz

Instead of focusing and working on developing and maximizing Rui's strength which is his offensive capabilities and potential, we are limiting his offensive development and making him a defensive stopper, which is not bad idea. He will never have the opportunity to develop into a Kawhi-lite or Tobias like score which his projections were with the Beal iso's and no ball movement come 4th quarter. Russ can be crazy at times, but he has at least been trying to get teammates involved.

Deni has shown good potential also and has shown potential on the offensive end and both complement each other and can be interchangeable at either the 3 or 4.

Not sure trading Beal is the answer as the Beal and Russ tandem is pretty good, but need to have a different offensive philosophy that incorporates everybody as solely relying on those two is not sustainable.

[DCZards]

I like the prospects of both of them. No point pitting them against each other. Or more like pitting fans of one or the other player against each other.

Exactly.

I think this thread sucks...but to each his own, I guess.

[Kanyewest]

Running more than 2 to 1 Deni over Rui (not that they are in competition anywhere but in this poll I created).

Of course, one could be better than the other with neither of them being particularly good! Let's hope that's not how it turns out....

Now it's 15-4 for Deni closer to 4 to 1.

[doclinkin]

I like the prospects of both of them. No point pitting them against each other. Or more like pitting fans of one or the other player against each other.

Exactly.

I think this thread sucks...but to each his own, I guess.

My man PIF likes picking fights

[gesa2]

Deni primarily because he’s not terrible now at age 19.
Are we sure that Deni’s a 3 and Rui is a 4? Deni can handle and see the floor better so I see it on offense. But he’s got less wiggle in his hips than Rui and rebounds better. I think he might be more of a 4 on defense than Rui is.

[queridiculo]

Deni primarily because he’s not terrible now at age 19.
Are we sure that Deni’s a 3 and Rui is a 4? Deni can handle and see the floor better so I see it on offense. But he’s got less wiggle in his hips than Rui and rebounds better. I think he might be more of a 4 on defense than Rui is.

They're both tweeners.

[smoothSeph]

Deni primarily because he’s not terrible now at age 19.

The age aspect is slightly overblown. Rui is still young in terms of basketball years, and players are lasting well into their mid 30s if their bodies hold up.

Deni may have a longer prime but it wouldn’t surprise me if Rui didn’t peak until 28 or so.

I voted Deni but I think we will have to wait a while to see the final forms of both players, hopefully they’re still in Washington when it happens.

[payitforward]

I like the prospects of both of them. No point pitting them against each other. Or more like pitting fans of one or the other player against each other.

Exactly.

I think this thread sucks...but to each his own, I guess.

My man PIF likes picking fights

If I'd thought I was "pitting fans of one... player against" fans of the other, I wouldn't have started the thread. I actually don't like picking fights.

Happily, the thread doesn't read that way either -- I haven't seen any posts at all that put down one of these guys at the expense of the other -- in any way other than a person saying he thinks A or B has more potential than B or A. & even in that case, most -- me included -- also point out that it's too early to know anything of this kind with any certainty.

In fact, if on reflection any of you still think discussing this subject is necessarily divisive, please say so. I'll ask for it to be removed, as that's not at all my intention.

[nate33]

Deni primarily because he’s not terrible now at age 19.
Are we sure that Deni’s a 3 and Rui is a 4? Deni can handle and see the floor better so I see it on offense. But he’s got less wiggle in his hips than Rui and rebounds better. I think he might be more of a 4 on defense than Rui is.

They're both tweeners.

I feel like the league is moving in that direction anyhow. Power forwards keep getting smaller and smaller. 5 years ago, nobody would think of Kawhi, Tatum, Anunoby, Bogdanovic, Butler, and Cam Johnson as PF's, but that's what they play now. There are only a handful of truly big PF's left: Giannis, Anthony Davis, Sabonis, Markkanen, Larry Nance Jr.

At the same time, the SF position is remaining pretty big. You still want that guy to be at least 6-8 - Paul George sized, or Brandon Ingram. You don't really want a 6-6 guy like Justin Holiday at the position if you can avoid it because small forwards often have to cover weak side and tag a rolling big man.

[Ruzious]

Deni primarily because he’s not terrible now at age 19.
Are we sure that Deni’s a 3 and Rui is a 4? Deni can handle and see the floor better so I see it on offense. But he’s got less wiggle in his hips than Rui and rebounds better. I think he might be more of a 4 on defense than Rui is.

They're both tweeners.

I feel like the league is moving in that direction anyhow. Power forwards keep getting smaller and smaller. 5 years ago, nobody would think of Kawhi, Tatum, Anunoby, Bogdanovic, Butler, and Cam Johnson as PF's, but that's what they play now. There are only a handful of truly big PF's left: Giannis, Anthony Davis, Sabonis, Markkanen, Larry Nance Jr.

At the same time, the SF position is remaining pretty big. You still want that guy to be at least 6-8 - Paul George sized, or Brandon Ingram. You don't really want a 6-6 guy like Justin Holiday at the position if you can avoid it because small forwards often have to cover weak side and tag a rolling big man.

Clarke's another that's tiny for a traditional 4. I remember early in his career seeing Tatum basically destroyed against Giannis - I was thinking no way he should be a 4 - and now... he's a legit all-star 4.