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GT #65: Pacers @ Bullets 7 PM EST

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Re: GT #65: Pacers @ Bullets 7 PM EST 

Post#141 » by payitforward » Tue May 4, 2021 3:17 pm

DCZards wrote:I was at the game as well and I noticed that Gafford had his knees wrapped with ice bags when he wasn’t on the court. I don’t believe that’s been the case in the past. So he might be dealing with sore knees, which probably explains why he didn’t get more minutes.

Russ and Rui were players of the game...but I want to also give a shout out to Hutch. He’s emerging as a nice piece of the bench.

He was good last night to be sure. Plus, as I've been saying since we acquired him, Hutch had a pretty good rookie season, & he's clearly a fluid & athletic player. I have a lot of hope for him.

But, man, is he hard to figure! His first game with us he went 8-11, including 2-3 on 3-pointers. Over the next 4 games he went 3-22 !!

For us, he's gone 11-13 on FTAs. Yet, on his career he is a pretty bad FT shooter. It's just hard to figure the guy. For sure, it's not a question of physical gifts or talent; he has the ability.
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Re: GT #65: Pacers @ Bullets 7 PM EST 

Post#142 » by Dat2U » Tue May 4, 2021 3:18 pm

NatP4 wrote:
Read on Twitter


Explains alot.

Shocking and organizational incompetence they let him play through that.
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Re: GT #65: Pacers @ Bullets 7 PM EST 

Post#143 » by JWizmentality » Tue May 4, 2021 3:32 pm

Has there ever been a time where we had a full squad where we liked everyone on the team? There are no sucky threads and every player contributes when they get the opportunity.
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Re: GT #65: Pacers @ Bullets 7 PM EST 

Post#144 » by DCZards » Tue May 4, 2021 3:35 pm

Dat2U wrote:
NatP4 wrote:
Read on Twitter


Explains alot.

Shocking and organizational incompetence they let him play through that.

Guys play through injuries all the time...as long as it won't do further damage.
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Re: GT #65: Pacers @ Bullets 7 PM EST 

Post#145 » by Kanyewest » Tue May 4, 2021 4:09 pm

Ruzious wrote:We keep getting ridiculous shooting numbers from our centers. This game they combined to make 16 of 20 FG's and score 38 points - also 4 blocks and 2 steals.

Historic performance by Westbrook - what can we say about the guy - just hope he stays healthy. Career-highs in both assists and rebounds in the same game... I grew up idolizing Oscar in his last 2 seasons in the NBA, and Russ is working on breaking his record that nobody thought would ever be broken. And we get to watch him do it - while he plays for our team. Amazing.


According to ESPN, 16-18 from the field (all misses courtesy of Robin Lopez - good thing Hook Shot Lopez went 5-5).
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Re: GT #65: Pacers @ Bullets 7 PM EST 

Post#146 » by Ruzious » Tue May 4, 2021 5:35 pm

DCZards wrote:
Dat2U wrote:
NatP4 wrote:
Read on Twitter


Explains alot.

Shocking and organizational incompetence they let him play through that.

Guys play through injuries all the time...as long as it won't do further damage.

It must have been a partial tear, because a complete tear requires surgery. I guess the question is - Did playing on a partial tear put him at risk to get a complete tear - which would have more than likely ended his season? I do not know the answer.
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Re: GT #65: Pacers @ Bullets 7 PM EST 

Post#147 » by nate33 » Tue May 4, 2021 5:45 pm

Dat2U wrote:
NatP4 wrote:
Read on Twitter


Explains alot.

Shocking and organizational incompetence they let him play through that.


That is shocking because I feel like the organization has been extremely careful and pro-active in injury management ever since they changed their medical staff.

As it turns out, it looks like they may have made the right call because Westbrook did indeed get healthy. As Ruzious said, it must have been some type of partial tear or microtear. I really don't think they would have instructed their $130M investment to play on a seriously torn quad.
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Re: GT #65: Pacers @ Bullets 7 PM EST 

Post#148 » by NatP4 » Tue May 4, 2021 5:56 pm

nate33 wrote:
Dat2U wrote:
NatP4 wrote:
Read on Twitter


Explains alot.

Shocking and organizational incompetence they let him play through that.


That is shocking because I feel like the organization has been extremely careful and pro-active in injury management ever since they changed their medical staff.

As it turns out, it looks like they may have made the right call because Westbrook did indeed get healthy. As Ruzious said, it must have been some type of partial tear or microtear. I really don't think they would have instructed their $130M investment to play on a seriously torn quad.


I’m sure Westbrook wanted to play and ultimately had the final say. At the time, Brooks had no idea if Westbrook was playing on a daily basis.

My only takeaway is that Westbrook was flat out horrible for a couple months and has been otherworldly for the last 40ish games. He looks explosive again. Now his on/off numbers are through the roof.

The entire situation has changed drastically.

Last 20 games: 21-13-12 per36 with 4.6 turnovers 3.4 net rating 52% TS.

Wiz are rolling into the playoffs with two legit stars and an athletic rim protecting C that they have never had. Also Davis Bertans has a ridiculous 68.5% TS and a 6.7 net rating in his last 15 games. I already posted the roll that Hachimura is now on.

If Beal makes a couple GWs, the wiz would’ve won 15/16 and 10 in a row, and those 2 losses were against good western conference teams on the 2nd night of back to backs. This team is rolling.
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Re: GT #65: Pacers @ Bullets 7 PM EST 

Post#149 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Tue May 4, 2021 5:57 pm

NatP4 wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:I have said in the past that the Chris Webber trade was the worst in Wizards franchise history.

I must say it is possible that the Wall for Westbrook trade is the best trade the Wizards ever made.

I have never heard of a guy having more than 20 assists and 20 rebounds in the same game. I don’t think Magic Johnson even did that.


I don’t know, the Gafford-Troy Brown trade is looking pretty good.


Right now Hutchison is not a bum, either. The Bulls gave away two talented players.
I think they should Trade Beal

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Re: GT #65: Pacers @ Bullets 7 PM EST 

Post#150 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Tue May 4, 2021 6:08 pm

JWizmentality wrote:Has there ever been a time where we had a full squad where we liked everyone on the team? There are no sucky threads and every player contributes when they get the opportunity.


No.

This is the first time I can recall where everyone on the team is a contributor. Not in the Wall era or the Arenas era did we ever have a balanced roster with size, defense, and athletic players rounding out elite guards.

The Webber era Wizards were plagued with young/immature leaders and not great guard play.

The Wizards right now are one player away. If they had Trevor Ariza from five years ago they’d be legit title contenders IMHO. The lack a killer three and D SF.

The other thing that will ultimately hold this team down is hero ball Beal or Russ. They would rather isolate than feed the post or dish to Bertans in clutch time. The percentage of wins goes down with Beal playing hero. Ironically, Westbrook is the better option late as long as he’s not jacking early jumpers.
I think they should Trade Beal

(Spoken in desperate frustration)
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Re: GT #65: Pacers @ Bullets 7 PM EST 

Post#151 » by NatP4 » Tue May 4, 2021 6:16 pm

I’ll die on this hill, but the missing piece for this group is an Otto Porter-like wing that can play really good defense and score efficiently off the ball and provide spacing. Franz Wagner is that guy in the 2021 draft. Avdija and Hachimura will be good players, but they don’t really have that kind of skillset. It’s pretty clear they are set at C&PF next year. One of Ish/Neto will return as the backup PG, Mathews/Hutchison will back up Beal at SG. The wiz are going to draft a wing, I’m almost sure of it.

Westbrook Neto
Beal Mathews
Avdija Wagner
Hachimura Bertans
Gafford Bryant
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Re: GT #65: Pacers @ Bullets 7 PM EST 

Post#152 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Tue May 4, 2021 6:23 pm

Ruzious wrote:
NatP4 wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:I have said in the past that the Chris Webber trade was the worst in Wizards franchise history.

I must say it is possible that the Wall for Westbrook trade is the best trade the Wizards ever made.

I have never heard of a guy having more than 20 assists and 20 rebounds in the same game. I don’t think Magic Johnson even did that.


I don’t know, the Gafford-Troy Brown trade is looking pretty good.

I guess. His stats per 36 minutes in his 15 games with the Wiz are arguably better than Anthony Davis'. Not too bad... considering he'll continue to get paid less than $2 mil a year for the next 2 seasons.


Gafford found the absolute best landing spot. Chicago was going to ruin his career.

I’ve seen guys with similar abilities come and go without ever blossoming. Brandan Wright. Clifford Rozier. To an extent John Henson. None of them had a Westbrook type leader/mentor. All long, quick, athletic players who don’t have the mentality to dominate. Gafford is perfect running with Westbrook. He doesn’t need post moves. He doesn’t have to be a plus rebounder. He gets to showcase his true strength as an elite finisher and a very good shot blocker.

Gafford is playing even better for the Wizards than Christian Wood might’ve been. It’s remarkable to see. Clearly, the Bulls sold him short.
I think they should Trade Beal

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Re: GT #65: Pacers @ Bullets 7 PM EST 

Post#153 » by Frichuela » Tue May 4, 2021 7:08 pm

NatP4 wrote:I’ll die on this hill, but the missing piece for this group is an Otto Porter-like wing that can play really good defense and score efficiently off the ball and provide spacing. Franz Wagner is that guy in the 2021 draft. Avdija and Hachimura will be good players, but they don’t really have that kind of skillset. It’s pretty clear they are set at C&PF next year. One of Ish/Neto will return as the backup PG, Mathews/Hutchison will back up Beal at SG. The wiz are going to draft a wing, I’m almost sure of it.

Westbrook Neto
Beal Mathews
Avdija Wagner
Hachimura Bertans
Gafford Bryant


An alternative to this is to draft a combo guard who is solid defensively and good at shooting the 3: Jared Butler would be my choice. He is a winner, with great shooting range, and steal numbers.

If we do that, we could go for a veteran 3&D wing. Kent Bazemore (or Otto Porter himself) could work. I am sure Bazemore won't cost more than $3-5 mn/year. He is shooting the 3 great this year and continues to be a pest defensively.
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Re: GT #65: Pacers @ Bullets 7 PM EST 

Post#154 » by badinage » Tue May 4, 2021 7:35 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
JWizmentality wrote:Has there ever been a time where we had a full squad where we liked everyone on the team? There are no sucky threads and every player contributes when they get the opportunity.


No.

This is the first time I can recall where everyone on the team is a contributor. Not in the Wall era or the Arenas era did we ever have a balanced roster with size, defense, and athletic players rounding out elite guards.

The Webber era Wizards were plagued with young/immature leaders and not great guard play.

The Wizards right now are one player away. If they had Trevor Ariza from five years ago they’d be legit title contenders IMHO. The lack a killer three and D SF.

The other thing that will ultimately hold this team down is hero ball Beal or Russ. They would rather isolate than feed the post or dish to Bertans in clutch time. The percentage of wins goes down with Beal playing hero. Ironically, Westbrook is the better option late as long as he’s not jacking early jumpers.


I think we need a thread for Tommy Sheppard. Feel free to move this, Nate, and let it kick that discussion off.

He made a shrewd move to nab Bertans -- stole him, basically, from one of the best organizations in the game (in all of sports, to put it into proper perspective).

He made a similarly low-key, under-the-radar move to steal Thomas Bryant from the Lakers.

Both pick-ups at almost no cost.

Getting Westbrook for Wall -- again, he went in on a team in flux. In this case, a Houston team imploding because of that self-regarding blowhard moneybag owner Tillman Fertitta (may he go down in flames). Historically, this franchise has come out on the losing end of these kinds of trades, so it was kind of understandable that people would be very skeptical of 'brook when he got here. And he was injured. Injured -- not damaged goods. We see what he is -- a smaller Lebron. WIth a will just as big. It's an incredible privilege to be able to watch him perform. Whoever is not inspired by him does not have a pulse.

The Gafford trade: a total heist. And the exact right trade this team needed at the exact right time. And for what? A wing who lacked aggression and was not getting playing time. The Hutchison part of the deal could yet bear fruit. As is, he's been a nice piece and contributed in a couple of games. If he could continue to develop, he could really help.

The drafting of Deni. Already, at 20, a savvy defender and he'll only get better on offense as he grows stronger and learns the NBA game. An extremely tantalizing player, if you ask me, simply because I think ultimately he ends up as a 4. And so we'd have a point-power forward. I know there is sentiment out there for Haliburton, and he's been very good this year. But Deni is not the wrong pick.

The signing of Lopez -- and at the price Sheppard got him for? A steal. He's been a revelation. And his positioning on D hasn't been talked about nearly enough.

Neto. Who doesn't love the guy? Another canny get.

Hachimura. I know the room is mixed on this, but I like him -- like what he's becoming, and especially under 'brooks' tutelage. More aggression. More fire.

Finding Mathews. Any undrafted player who makes the squad -- that's a remarkable thing. And this one's gotten starter's minutes. Another one for TS.

Len. Who thought he would be playing like this? He's been a significant contributor. And again, TS swooped in to get him. Another canny, on-the-margins move that pays off big. It's precisely these moves that GMs should be judged on.

Ish Smith. When healthy, he's a real spark, as he's been showing. Yes, shoots too much at times, dribbles too much at times -- but he's a third guard. You can say that about a lot of third guards in the L. I like Ish. And he seems to be well-liked by his teammates, too.

Bonga hasn't become what some of us hoped he might, but he cost nothing; a worthwhile gamble.

Cassius Winston. TBD.

All in all, that's a pretty effing phenomenal rebuild -- I'm going with PIF's word here; he's right -- in two years. And WITHOUT major assests/resources like massive cap space, Top 5 picks, etc.
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Re: GT #65: Pacers @ Bullets 7 PM EST 

Post#155 » by tontoz » Tue May 4, 2021 7:50 pm

Yeah Sheppard's ability to bring in productive players at low cost is quite a contrast to Grunfail.
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Re: GT #65: Pacers @ Bullets 7 PM EST 

Post#156 » by nate33 » Tue May 4, 2021 7:59 pm

badinage wrote:I think we need a thread for Tommy Sheppard. Feel free to move this, Nate, and let it kick that discussion off.

He made a shrewd move to nab Bertans -- stole him, basically, from one of the best organizations in the game (in all of sports, to put it into proper perspective).

He made a similarly low-key, under-the-radar move to steal Thomas Bryant from the Lakers.

Both pick-ups at almost no cost.

Getting Westbrook for Wall -- again, he went in on a team in flux. In this case, a Houston team imploding because of that self-regarding blowhard moneybag owner Tillman Fertitta (may he go down in flames). Historically, this franchise has come out on the losing end of these kinds of trades, so it was kind of understandable that people would be very skeptical of 'brook when he got here. And he was injured. Injured -- not damaged goods. We see what he is -- a smaller Lebron. WIth a will just as big. It's an incredible privilege to be able to watch him perform. Whoever is not inspired by him does not have a pulse.

The Gafford trade: a total heist. And the exact right trade this team needed at the exact right time. And for what? A wing who lacked aggression and was not getting playing time. The Hutchison part of the deal could yet bear fruit. As is, he's been a nice piece and contributed in a couple of games. If he could continue to develop, he could really help.

The drafting of Deni. Already, at 20, a savvy defender and he'll only get better on offense as he grows stronger and learns the NBA game. An extremely tantalizing player, if you ask me, simply because I think ultimately he ends up as a 4. And so we'd have a point-power forward. I know there is sentiment out there for Haliburton, and he's been very good this year. But Deni is not the wrong pick.

The signing of Lopez -- and at the price Sheppard got him for? A steal. He's been a revelation. And his positioning on D hasn't been talked about nearly enough.

Neto. Who doesn't love the guy? Another canny get.

Hachimura. I know the room is mixed on this, but I like him -- like what he's becoming, and especially under 'brooks' tutelage. More aggression. More fire.

Finding Mathews. Any undrafted player who makes the squad -- that's a remarkable thing. And this one's gotten starter's minutes. Another one for TS.

Len. Who thought he would be playing like this? He's been a significant contributor. And again, TS swooped in to get him. Another canny, on-the-margins move that pays off big. It's precisely these moves that GMs should be judged on.

Ish Smith. When healthy, he's a real spark, as he's been showing. Yes, shoots too much at times, dribbles too much at times -- but he's a third guard. You can say that about a lot of third guards in the L. I like Ish. And he seems to be well-liked by his teammates, too.

Bonga hasn't become what some of us hoped he might, but he cost nothing; a worthwhile gamble.

Cassius Winston. TBD.

All in all, that's a pretty effing phenomenal rebuild -- I'm going with PIF's word here; he's right -- in two years. And WITHOUT major assests/resources like massive cap space, Top 5 picks, etc.

Agreed.

The vast majority of his minor, on-the-margins moves have turned out unbelievably well. He essentially acquired Bertans, Bryant, Neto, Mathews and Len for nothing. All those guys are rotation players on a lot of teams.

His investments on above-vet-minimum free agents have turned out pretty well too: Lopez and Ish have earned their money on the court, and helped to build a good locker room off the court.

His big moves are wins, but not quite as resounding:
- The Troy Brown for Gafford trade is looking like a big win.
- The Wall for Westbrook move is definitely a win for both on-the-court reasons and team culture reasons. But the loss of a first round pick still stings.
- The Hachimura draft is looking okay, perhaps a little better than expected. It wasn't a home run by any stretch, but it wasn't a whiff either. I think Hachimura will pan out to be a top 9 player in this draft, so no complaints.
- The Bertans resigning is probably a fair market deal, but nothing great at that price. At least he addresses our biggest need fitwise.
The jury is still out on the Avdija draft, right now it's looking a little sub-par, but it's early.
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Re: GT #65: Pacers @ Bullets 7 PM EST 

Post#157 » by NatP4 » Tue May 4, 2021 8:46 pm

Sheppard had the balls to move Wall. I never thought the wizards would even think about doing that.

In the end, it will probably be the reason Beal chooses to re sign.
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Re: GT #65: Pacers @ Bullets 7 PM EST 

Post#158 » by badinage » Tue May 4, 2021 9:07 pm

As for the first-round pick, I thought we don't actually have to give it up to them. Is that not right?
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Re: GT #65: Pacers @ Bullets 7 PM EST 

Post#159 » by nate33 » Tue May 4, 2021 9:15 pm

badinage wrote:As for the first-round pick, I thought we don't actually have to give it up to them. Is that not right?

We almost surely have to give it up eventually, but It's protected. If we are better than a bottom 12 team in 2023, we give up the pick. That protection declines in time. Eventually, the pick turns into 2nd rounders I think, but we would have to be awful in 2023, 2024 and 2025 for the pick not to convey.

The likelihood is that we make the playoffs in 2023, 2024 or 2025 so we would ultimately be giving up a number 18-ish pick.
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Re: GT #65: Pacers @ Bullets 7 PM EST 

Post#160 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Tue May 4, 2021 9:16 pm

badinage wrote:As for the first-round pick, I thought we don't actually have to give it up to them. Is that not right?


I know it’s a fairly heavily protected 1st.
I think they should Trade Beal

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