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Rui Hachimura 2.0

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Re: Rui Hachimura 2.0 

Post#141 » by CobraCommander » Wed Sep 8, 2021 4:36 pm

JWizmentality wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:Rui Hachimura is NOT BETTER than Kyle Kuzma.

I think Montrezl Harrell brings a lot more impact offensively and his career PER and per-36 minute stats put Rui to shame. I think it is DUMB to pencil in C as the only possible position for Harrell. I also know I would start off with having Harrell or Bertans start ahead of Rui for myriad reasons. Age. Time in the league. Incentive for them to run with starters. AND most of all bring a fired up young buck off the bench! It’s absurd to me the idea of FROM JUMP benching older equally talented dudes just because Rui has started two years.


I thought the point was to develop a young player with a far higher ceiling?

This X 100.

Rui isn’t some natural basketball genius. Rui has size, athletic ability and work ethic that could turn him into a great player. Kuzma is pretty good, maybe better than Rui today, but Rui’s ceiling much higher IMO. If people freaking out about what Luka did in Olympics, we should be losing our minds with how Rui played again Luka...Rui was the best player on the court in that game.
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Re: Rui Hachimura 2.0 

Post#142 » by payitforward » Wed Sep 8, 2021 6:06 pm

CobraCommander wrote:...If people freaking out about what Luka did in Olympics, we should be losing our minds with how Rui played again Luka...Rui was the best player on the court in that game.

I wonder how long that nonsense will be repeated.

No, sorry, Rui was NOT the best player in that game against Slovenia. He wasn't close to the best player. Did you even watch the game? I have to doubt that you did.

Rui had a good night against Slovenia -- in a game his team lost by 35. Nowhere near as good as Luka -- or Zoran Dragic for that matter. But a good game all the same.

What Rui did in that game was score a lot of points. Which he did by taking a lot of shots. Guess what? Pretty much every player who takes more shots scores more points.

He got 34 points out of 28 shots & 7 FTAs -- a .547 TS% (almost exactly Rui's TS% on his second season -- meh, iow). What Rui did do well that night was shoot the 3 pointer -- he was only 10-22 on 2-point attempts, but he was 3-6 from beyond the arc.

It's also a good sign that he took that many of them as well. He also got to the line at a higher rate than he did in the league. The rest of Rui's line was good, btw.

His game vs. Philly in our one playoff win was quite a bit better. In fact it was terrific. That night he was a whole lot better than Tobias Harris.
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Re: Rui Hachimura 2.0 

Post#143 » by payitforward » Wed Sep 8, 2021 6:24 pm

JWizmentality wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:Rui Hachimura is NOT BETTER than Kyle Kuzma.

I think Montrezl Harrell brings a lot more impact offensively and his career PER and per-36 minute stats put Rui to shame. I think it is DUMB to pencil in C as the only possible position for Harrell. I also know I would start off with having Harrell or Bertans start ahead of Rui for myriad reasons. Age. Time in the league. Incentive for them to run with starters. AND most of all bring a fired up young buck off the bench! It’s absurd to me the idea of FROM JUMP benching older equally talented dudes just because Rui has started two years.

I thought the point was to develop a young player with a far higher ceiling?

Makes sense "to develop a young player." We do need to see what we have in Rui. He needs to play a lot of minutes this year -- a big year for him.

But, what would make you think that Rui has "a far higher ceiling" than Montrezl Harrell?

Harrell came into the league at the same age as Rui. He was already terrific in his 2d season. If Rui ever puts up the numbers Harrell put up that year, we'll all be shouting with glee.

Kuzma's a different story. He was worse than Rui both his rookie & second years. & then his third year he got even worse! Let's hope that doesn't happen to Rui!

But, last year, Kuzma's 4th year, he turned it around. He got tons better. Almost as good as an average NBA player at his position. If Rui does something like that this year, his 3d one, it will be a terrific improvement on his part & a very good sign for his future.
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Re: Rui Hachimura 2.0 

Post#144 » by doclinkin » Wed Sep 8, 2021 11:11 pm

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Re: Rui Hachimura 2.0 

Post#145 » by JWizmentality » Fri Sep 10, 2021 3:49 pm

payitforward wrote:
JWizmentality wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:Rui Hachimura is NOT BETTER than Kyle Kuzma.

I think Montrezl Harrell brings a lot more impact offensively and his career PER and per-36 minute stats put Rui to shame. I think it is DUMB to pencil in C as the only possible position for Harrell. I also know I would start off with having Harrell or Bertans start ahead of Rui for myriad reasons. Age. Time in the league. Incentive for them to run with starters. AND most of all bring a fired up young buck off the bench! It’s absurd to me the idea of FROM JUMP benching older equally talented dudes just because Rui has started two years.

I thought the point was to develop a young player with a far higher ceiling?

Makes sense "to develop a young player." We do need to see what we have in Rui. He needs to play a lot of minutes this year -- a big year for him.

But, what would make you think that Rui has "a far higher ceiling" than Montrezl Harrell?

Harrell came into the league at the same age as Rui. He was already terrific in his 2d season. If Rui ever puts up the numbers Harrell put up that year, we'll all be shouting with glee.

Kuzma's a different story. He was worse than Rui both his rookie & second years. & then his third year he got even worse! Let's hope that doesn't happen to Rui!

But, last year, Kuzma's 4th year, he turned it around. He got tons better. Almost as good as an average NBA player at his position. If Rui does something like that this year, his 3d one, it will be a terrific improvement on his part & a very good sign for his future.


What? Harrell is a 7 year pro and known commodity. Rui has played 105 games as a pro. So in normal times, he has one full NBA season under his belt plus 23 games. Stop making this as a do or die season for the kid.
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Re: Rui Hachimura 2.0 

Post#146 » by payitforward » Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:15 pm

JWizmentality wrote:What? Harrell is a 7 year pro and known commodity. Rui has played 105 games as a pro. So in normal times, he has one full NBA season under his belt plus 23 games.,,,

Actually, Harrell's a 6-year pro not 7 -- but either way, what's your point?
Rui played more minutes his first 2 years than Harrell played his first 3 years. In fact, Rui played the same number of minutes as a rookie that Harrell played his first 2 years in the league.

Plus, Harrell played 98 games his first 2 years -- fewer than Rui's 105.

The difference is that Harrell produced like crazy both his second year & his third. Which is why I said that if Rui...
payitforward wrote:...puts up the numbers Harrell put up that year, we'll all be shouting with glee....

You disagree?
Have you looked at those numbers?
They wouldn't make you happy if they came from Rui?

As to this...
JWizmentality wrote:...Stop making this as a do or die season for the kid.

I can't stop doing something I didn't do in the first place. What I said was that Rui...
payitforward wrote:needs to play a lot of minutes this year -- a big year for him.

As it would be for any young NBA player. Here's hoping it's a good one!
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Re: Rui Hachimura 2.0 

Post#147 » by nate33 » Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:19 pm

payitforward wrote:But, what would make you think that Rui has "a far higher ceiling" than Montrezl Harrell?

Harrell came into the league at the same age as Rui. He was already terrific in his 2d season. If Rui ever puts up the numbers Harrell put up that year, we'll all be shouting with glee.

Rui can defend his position very well, and also defend the 3 and the 5 pretty well. Harrell can't defend his position against starting caliber players.

That's why we would all shout with glee if Rui posted Harrell's offensive numbers.
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Re: Rui Hachimura 2.0 

Post#148 » by payitforward » Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:21 pm

That's a good point, nate. &, you will notice, I didn't say we should banish Rui to the Gulag -- I said he needs to get a lot of minutes; we need to see what we have in him (especially under a new coach), & we need to give him time to develop.

There is no need to undersell Harrell as a way to make Rui look better. We got Montrezl as part of a package trade that was a terrific move for the team. If he was as good on defense as he is on offense, he wouldn't have come in the deal!

OTOH, if Rui was as good on offense as he is on defense, then we'd see him produce offensive numbers ala Harrell's -- or anyway a lot better than they are.

As far as the anticipatory over-rating of Rui goes, all one needs to do is notice the repeated claim that he outplayed Luka in Japan's game vs. Slovenia.

That ludicrous notion stands in perfectly for the entire history of people here insisting that Rui Hachimura already is something which we all hope he may one day become.
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Re: Rui Hachimura 2.0 

Post#149 » by DCZards » Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:38 pm

payitforward wrote:As to this...
JWizmentality wrote:...Stop making this as a do or die season for the kid.

I can't stop doing something I didn't do in the first place. What I said was that Rui...
payitforward wrote:needs to play a lot of minutes this year -- a big year for him.

As it would be for any young NBA player. Here's hoping it's a good one!

Yeah...but when you say "this is a big year" for Rui 7-8 times--like you have over the past few weeks--then it does come across as if you're saying this a do or die season for him.
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Re: Rui Hachimura 2.0 

Post#150 » by payitforward » Sat Sep 11, 2021 2:56 am

DCZards wrote:...when you say "this is a big year" for Rui 7-8 times--like you have over the past few weeks--then it does come across as if you're saying this a do or die season for him.

Ah... ok, let me be specific & clear: this is an important season for Rui, as it would be for any young player entering his 3d year in the league. But, it's not a "do or die" season for him in any sense whatever.

One sense of "do or die" might be -- either "do it" (whatever that means in the particular situation) or you're out of the league. That's not the case for Rui. Even if he got worse rather than better he'd have another season to redeem himself. But, there is absolutely no reason to expect him to "get worse rather than better."

Another sense of "do or die" might be something like, "this year determines altogether who you are as a player." I.e. this is the last year for you to define yourself as a player. To some degree that will be true of every player -- year by year a guy defines himself, or it becomes clearer who he is (& concomitantly who he isn't) as a player. But, this is no more true of Rui than any other player.

What is specific to Rui is that he was chosen #9 in the 2019 draft & so far he has underperformed that fact -- without the slightest doubt, he has! -- therefore, year by year, one awaits a significant jump that might make him look like he merited being taken #9 that year.

That doesn't mean "do or die," but it does mean "this is a big year for Rui," & it always will mean that until he really takes that jump. 2019 was a weak draft. Nonetheless, there is a long list of guys taken way later than Rui who have been better than he has been. Cam Johnson, Tyler Herro, Matisse Thybulle, Brandon Clarke, Keldon Johnson, Cody Martin, Eric Paschall, Terance Mann... that would be a list for starters.

But, of course, I didn't mention the most important name, did I? Daniel Gafford went #38 in that draft &, so far, has been a zillion times better player than Rui. As all but the blind can see & all but the deaf & dumb will proclaim. He arrived & all of a sudden instead of being a 17-32 team, we proceeded to go 17-6.

So, yeah, you bet -- this is a big season for Rui. It's not do or die, but it's big. Because there are only so many years before you have established your level as a player, who you are, & so far the level Rui has established is quite low. So far he scores a below average number of points. So far he shoots a below average 2-point %. So far he shoots a below average 3 pt. %. So far he gets to the line at a below average rate. So far he gets a below average number of defensive boards. So far he gets a below average number of offensive boards. So far he gets a below average number of assists. So far he blocks a below average number of shots. So far he gets a below average number of steals. On the plus side, he turns it over less than average, fouls less often than average, & shoots FTs a little better than average.
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Re: Rui Hachimura 2.0 

Post#151 » by DCZards » Sat Sep 11, 2021 3:16 am

…and so far he’s looking like he could become one of the top man-to-man defenders in the NBA. Let’s not ignore that aspect of the game.
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Re: Rui Hachimura 2.0 

Post#152 » by payitforward » Sat Sep 11, 2021 3:19 am

...which would be absolutely great. & may he improve in every way this season!
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