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Who should Bradley and Russ woo?

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Re: Who should Bradley and Russ woo? 

Post#41 » by payitforward » Tue May 18, 2021 1:52 pm

I apologize to primetime for making the idea of "a third star" seem like such an over-reach. Why should he not want us to make the most of Russ/Brad & contend for a title?

So... if you please, prime, give me a pass on that.

Thing is... we've just gone 17-6. That's like a 60+ win season.

In that stretch, we've been a lot of points better per game than our opponents -- better than any other team's overall season, except Utah.

If we are that good, why can't we contend for a title next year? Why do we need to blow up the team, add a "star," & replace the rest of the roster with "cheap vets?" Why don't we just draft a good rookie & keep building this team?

If, OTOH, if this run was simply fool's gold, well... maybe adding a 3d star & downgrading the rest of the roster wouldn't make us contenders -- & if it didn't do that... we'd be in for a long & major rebuild.

Does that make some sense?
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Re: Who should Bradley and Russ woo? 

Post#42 » by Dat2U » Tue May 18, 2021 2:22 pm

payitforward wrote:I apologize to primetime for making the idea of "a third star" seem like such an over-reach. Why should he not want us to make the most of Russ/Brad & contend for a title?

So... if you please, prime, give me a pass on that.

Thing is... we've just gone 17-6. That's like a 60+ win season.

In that stretch, we've been a lot of points better per game than our opponents -- better than any other team's overall season, except Utah.

If we are that good, why can't we contend for a title next year? Why do we need to blow up the team, add a "star," & replace the rest of the roster with "cheap vets?" Why don't we just draft a good rookie & keep building this team?

If, OTOH, if this run was simply fool's gold, well... maybe adding a 3d star & downgrading the rest of the roster wouldn't make us contenders -- & if it didn't do that... we'd be in for a long & major rebuild.

Does that make some sense?


It's a bit a both. Don't think we're a 60 win team but with Gafford in rotation... I think we're a notch below Philly/Milwaukee. Nets on another level when their all healthy. Right there with the Knicks IMO who have lesser talent but are better coached.

I also think we're extremely top heavy. Downgrading the rest of roster isn't a huge risk IMO. Lopez, Len & Neto have all been solid in their roles but they are all journeymen. They are all replaceable. A healthy Westbrook & Beal will draw an insane amount of attention. Finding a Neto or Lopez replacement/upgrade that will be able to eat in the same role is not an impossible task.
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Re: Who should Bradley and Russ woo? 

Post#43 » by prime1time » Tue May 18, 2021 2:26 pm

payitforward wrote:I apologize to primetime for making the idea of "a third star" seem like such an over-reach. Why should he not want us to make the most of Russ/Brad & contend for a title?

So... if you please, prime, give me a pass on that.

Thing is... we've just gone 17-6. That's like a 60+ win season.

In that stretch, we've been a lot of points better per game than our opponents -- better than any other team's overall season, except Utah.

If we are that good, why can't we contend for a title next year? Why do we need to blow up the team, add a "star," & replace the rest of the roster with "cheap vets?" Why don't we just draft a good rookie & keep building this team?

If, OTOH, if this run was simply fool's gold, well... maybe adding a 3d star & downgrading the rest of the roster wouldn't make us contenders -- & if it didn't do that... we'd be in for a long & major rebuild.

Does that make some sense?

If the argument is that we should keep the current team I can see it. There are marginal improvements to be made. Thomas Bryant will be healthy and his spacing will be much needed. Avdija and Rui will be a year older. But at the same time we have to accept the fact that without 3 stars, the chances of taking down the Nets are limited. And stars understand this. If the Nets run through the playoffs this year, stars who want a championship will have to consider the Wizards an ideal destination. Westbrook playing at an all-star level plus Beal having the best season of his career makes the Wizards a destination.
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Re: Who should Bradley and Russ woo? 

Post#44 » by prime1time » Tue May 18, 2021 2:36 pm

Dat2U wrote:
payitforward wrote:I apologize to primetime for making the idea of "a third star" seem like such an over-reach. Why should he not want us to make the most of Russ/Brad & contend for a title?

So... if you please, prime, give me a pass on that.

Thing is... we've just gone 17-6. That's like a 60+ win season.

In that stretch, we've been a lot of points better per game than our opponents -- better than any other team's overall season, except Utah.

If we are that good, why can't we contend for a title next year? Why do we need to blow up the team, add a "star," & replace the rest of the roster with "cheap vets?" Why don't we just draft a good rookie & keep building this team?

If, OTOH, if this run was simply fool's gold, well... maybe adding a 3d star & downgrading the rest of the roster wouldn't make us contenders -- & if it didn't do that... we'd be in for a long & major rebuild.

Does that make some sense?


It's a bit a both. Don't think we're a 60 win team but with Gafford in rotation... I think we're a notch below Philly/Milwaukee. Nets on another level when their all healthy. Right there with the Knicks IMO who have lesser talent but are better coached.

I also think we're extremely top heavy. Downgrading the rest of roster isn't a huge risk IMO. Lopez, Len & Neto have all been solid in their roles but they are all journeymen. They are all replaceable. A healthy Westbrook & Beal will draw an insane amount of attention. Finding a Neto or Lopez replacement/upgrade that will be able to eat in the same role is not an impossible task.

Without an additional superstar/star, how do the Wizards compete with the Nets.
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Re: Who should Bradley and Russ woo? 

Post#45 » by MDStar » Tue May 18, 2021 3:30 pm

prime1time wrote:
Dat2U wrote:
payitforward wrote:I apologize to primetime for making the idea of "a third star" seem like such an over-reach. Why should he not want us to make the most of Russ/Brad & contend for a title?

So... if you please, prime, give me a pass on that.

Thing is... we've just gone 17-6. That's like a 60+ win season.

In that stretch, we've been a lot of points better per game than our opponents -- better than any other team's overall season, except Utah.

If we are that good, why can't we contend for a title next year? Why do we need to blow up the team, add a "star," & replace the rest of the roster with "cheap vets?" Why don't we just draft a good rookie & keep building this team?

If, OTOH, if this run was simply fool's gold, well... maybe adding a 3d star & downgrading the rest of the roster wouldn't make us contenders -- & if it didn't do that... we'd be in for a long & major rebuild.

Does that make some sense?


It's a bit a both. Don't think we're a 60 win team but with Gafford in rotation... I think we're a notch below Philly/Milwaukee. Nets on another level when their all healthy. Right there with the Knicks IMO who have lesser talent but are better coached.

I also think we're extremely top heavy. Downgrading the rest of roster isn't a huge risk IMO. Lopez, Len & Neto have all been solid in their roles but they are all journeymen. They are all replaceable. A healthy Westbrook & Beal will draw an insane amount of attention. Finding a Neto or Lopez replacement/upgrade that will be able to eat in the same role is not an impossible task.

Without an additional superstar/star, how do the Wizards compete with the Nets.


If all goes well tonight, we will get to see over the next week, how close this current version of the Wizards are to the Nets. If they truly are the 55-60 win version that we've seen over the past 1.5 months, then that series should be very competitive and a 3rd star may not be needed next year. If they get blown out, 4 games to none, then this is not a 55-60 win team and a 3rd star is absolutely necessary. Only time will tell. The good thing is, we have more games to evaluate this team verse top level competition. I for one am excited.
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Re: Who should Bradley and Russ woo? 

Post#46 » by payitforward » Tue May 18, 2021 3:48 pm

prime1time wrote:
Dat2U wrote:
payitforward wrote:I apologize to primetime for making the idea of "a third star" seem like such an over-reach. Why should he not want us to make the most of Russ/Brad & contend for a title?

So... if you please, prime, give me a pass on that.

Thing is... we've just gone 17-6. That's like a 60+ win season.

In that stretch, we've been a lot of points better per game than our opponents -- better than any other team's overall season, except Utah.

If we are that good, why can't we contend for a title next year? Why do we need to blow up the team, add a "star," & replace the rest of the roster with "cheap vets?" Why don't we just draft a good rookie & keep building this team?

If, OTOH, if this run was simply fool's gold, well... maybe adding a 3d star & downgrading the rest of the roster wouldn't make us contenders -- & if it didn't do that... we'd be in for a long & major rebuild.

Does that make some sense?


It's a bit a both. Don't think we're a 60 win team but with Gafford in rotation... I think we're a notch below Philly/Milwaukee. Nets on another level when their all healthy. Right there with the Knicks IMO who have lesser talent but are better coached.

I also think we're extremely top heavy. Downgrading the rest of roster isn't a huge risk IMO. Lopez, Len & Neto have all been solid in their roles but they are all journeymen. They are all replaceable. A healthy Westbrook & Beal will draw an insane amount of attention. Finding a Neto or Lopez replacement/upgrade that will be able to eat in the same role is not an impossible task.

Without an additional superstar/star, how do the Wizards compete with the Nets.

Did GS win all those titles by going out & signing superstars? No, by and large they developed them.

As to directly competing w/ the Nets, we aren't going to be able to add a player as good as Harden or Durant. Period. They are in NY. More $$ to spend & a more attractive destination for a player.

We have to go the GS route.
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Re: Who should Bradley and Russ woo? 

Post#47 » by payitforward » Tue May 18, 2021 4:04 pm

The players this team needs are not stars/superstars on other teams. They are guys we get in the draft & solid journeymen.
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Re: Who should Bradley and Russ woo? 

Post#48 » by badinage » Tue May 18, 2021 4:13 pm

Or trade.

Many ways to skin a cat.

GS is an anomaly in being a great team built almost entirely through the draft. There have been many teams, as we know, that went the weasel, game-the-system, get-big FA route.

And there've been teams that did it via draft, trade, and FA.

Drafting well, as PIF says, is the best way to be in position to make big moves on the trade market or in FA.
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Re: Who should Bradley and Russ woo? 

Post#49 » by prime1time » Tue May 18, 2021 5:15 pm

payitforward wrote:
prime1time wrote:
Dat2U wrote:
It's a bit a both. Don't think we're a 60 win team but with Gafford in rotation... I think we're a notch below Philly/Milwaukee. Nets on another level when their all healthy. Right there with the Knicks IMO who have lesser talent but are better coached.

I also think we're extremely top heavy. Downgrading the rest of roster isn't a huge risk IMO. Lopez, Len & Neto have all been solid in their roles but they are all journeymen. They are all replaceable. A healthy Westbrook & Beal will draw an insane amount of attention. Finding a Neto or Lopez replacement/upgrade that will be able to eat in the same role is not an impossible task.

Without an additional superstar/star, how do the Wizards compete with the Nets.

Did GS win all those titles by going out & signing superstars? No, by and large they developed them.

As to directly competing w/ the Nets, we aren't going to be able to add a player as good as Harden or Durant. Period. They are in NY. More $$ to spend & a more attractive destination for a player.

We have to go the GS route.

What are you talking about? Golden State won one championship against an injured Cavs team. And then signed KD. Regardless, the Golden State route cannot work when there’s a trio of Kyrie, Harden and Durant. Just like when KD was on the Warriors.
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Re: Who should Bradley and Russ woo? 

Post#50 » by prime1time » Tue May 18, 2021 5:18 pm

MDStar wrote:
prime1time wrote:
Dat2U wrote:
It's a bit a both. Don't think we're a 60 win team but with Gafford in rotation... I think we're a notch below Philly/Milwaukee. Nets on another level when their all healthy. Right there with the Knicks IMO who have lesser talent but are better coached.

I also think we're extremely top heavy. Downgrading the rest of roster isn't a huge risk IMO. Lopez, Len & Neto have all been solid in their roles but they are all journeymen. They are all replaceable. A healthy Westbrook & Beal will draw an insane amount of attention. Finding a Neto or Lopez replacement/upgrade that will be able to eat in the same role is not an impossible task.

Without an additional superstar/star, how do the Wizards compete with the Nets.


If all goes well tonight, we will get to see over the next week, how close this current version of the Wizards are to the Nets. If they truly are the 55-60 win version that we've seen over the past 1.5 months, then that series should be very competitive and a 3rd star may not be needed next year. If they get blown out, 4 games to none, then this is not a 55-60 win team and a 3rd star is absolutely necessary. Only time will tell. The good thing is, we have more games to evaluate this team verse top level competition. I for one am excited.

If all goes well? Let’s be honest, a team with Beal and Westbrook that’s well optimized can be very good. This team is not well optimized. Our 3-point shooters can’t play good defense. And our good defenders can’t shoot 3’s. Beal is injured and we have no Avdija or Bryant. If we are going to go the route of not going after star, then we need to target 3-point shooters who are good defenders. And even then, I’ll be honest. It’s Nets in 4 unless the Nets beat themselves.
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Re: Who should Bradley and Russ woo? 

Post#51 » by prime1time » Tue May 18, 2021 5:45 pm

How can we go the Warrior route when Westbrook is 33? We didn’t draft him. We don’t have time to develop players. This is the first time in over 30 years where the Wizards can build a legit contender. The best bet is to hope a superstar demands a trade. And this abstract conversation about the “top heaviness” of the team is laughable. If a superstar/star wants to come here we should welcome them with open arms. Now optimizing the team and Brad and Russ is a good second option. But are we really to say no to Kawhi if he wants to come? Would we really say no? If things go bad in Philly and Embiid wants out, do we really say no? If Jokic wants out, do we really say no? This is a no brainer. The issue is finding a star that wants to come.
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Re: Who should Bradley and Russ woo? 

Post#52 » by dckingsfan » Tue May 18, 2021 5:57 pm

prime1time wrote:How can we go the Warrior route when Westbrook is 33? We didn’t draft him. We don’t have time to develop players. This is the first time in over 30 years where the Wizards can build a legit contender. The best bet is to hope a superstar demands a trade. And this abstract conversation about the “top heaviness” of the team is laughable. If a superstar/star wants to come here we should welcome them with open arms. Now optimizing the team and Brad and Russ is a good second option. But are we really to say no to Kawhi if he wants to come? Would we really say no? If things go bad in Philly and Embiid wants out, do we really say no? If Jokic wants out, do we really say no? This is a no brainer. The issue is finding a star that wants to come.

And getting Brad and Russ to go full court press on them...
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Re: Who should Bradley and Russ woo? 

Post#53 » by DCZards » Tue May 18, 2021 8:03 pm

Rafael122 wrote:
Ruzious wrote:
Dat2U wrote:Deni, TB & our 1st for Christian Wood.

There's an interesting twist on Dat's idea in the Trade board. Someone suggested lowering the protection on the 2023 pick we "traded" to Houston in the Wall/Westbrook trade as part of the trade. I don't know if I liked the trade particularly, but that was a very creative idea. I think his deal was trading Bryant, our 2021 pick (looking like 15th), and lowering the protection on the 2023 pick for Wood and and another pick that I can't recall.


I saw that, it was Bryant, 2021 pick, lowered protections on the 2023 pick for Wood and Houston's 24th pick. On paper that seems like an awful lot to give up. I'm still not 100% sure about that trade.

This is far fetched but someone brought his name up on Twitter: Demar Derozan. I have no idea what his contract situation will be since this guy is coming off a max contract but that would be a really interesting fit.

Not sure I’d target DeRozan but he and Russ are close friends going back to their high school days in Southern Cali. So if there’s a guy RW could possibly “woo” it would probably be DeRozan.

They were together at a BLM rally last summer.
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Re: Who should Bradley and Russ woo? 

Post#54 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Tue May 18, 2021 11:27 pm

I'm POSITIVE this will get flamed:

1.Javale McGee, IF he wants to retire a Wizard; and, with yet another ring FROM the Wizards. Why? He's a better Lopez/Gafford at many things. His last trade put him in a bad spot (Denver's deep bench IIRC)
2. Jared Butler or Davion Mitchell with the 1st (unless they get a top 4).
3. UDFAs Trevion Williams and maybe Aaron Williams. WHY NOT?

The bigger question of wooing is any big name that fits, providing they're not looking for money. Ariza at the minimum is a no brainer.

I would invest half a season in either Rui OR Deni; unless, the synergy becomes more apparent. I like them both but as players are either world beaters? I don't know.

LAST BUT NOT LEAST: the rational thing would be to keep the option of trading either Russell or Bradley on the table. Particularly if ego or age or playoff failure creates a root of bitterness in either player.

PS MOST IMPORTANT: I would make Russell Westbrook player coach if he wants it. If not, they need to upgrade at coach in order to climb IMHO.
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Re: Who should Bradley and Russ woo? 

Post#55 » by badinage » Wed May 19, 2021 12:07 am

Russell Westbrook as player-coach is a move I proposed a couple weeks ago. I think it would be fantastic for this team. And he’d be the first in that role since that other Russell — Bill.
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Re: Who should Bradley and Russ woo? 

Post#56 » by dorianwrite » Wed May 19, 2021 12:41 am

badinage wrote:Russell Westbrook as player-coach is a move I proposed a couple weeks ago. I think it would be fantastic for this team. And he’d be the first in that role since that other Russell — Bill.


I believe there is a rule preventing anyone from being a player/coach anymore in the NBA. Can anyone confirm or deny?
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Re: Who should Bradley and Russ woo? 

Post#57 » by dorianwrite » Wed May 19, 2021 12:43 am

Ah, okay, found it for myself. It turns out Dave Cowens was the last player/coach in NBA history and that the rule against them was instituted in 1984-85, if Wikipedia is to be believed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Basketball_Association_player-coaches
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Re: Who should Bradley and Russ woo? 

Post#58 » by payitforward » Wed May 19, 2021 12:57 am

prime1time wrote:How can we go the Warrior route when Westbrook is 33? We didn’t draft him. We don’t have time to develop players. This is the first time in over 30 years where the Wizards can build a legit contender. The best bet is to hope a superstar demands a trade. And this abstract conversation about the “top heaviness” of the team is laughable. If a superstar/star wants to come here we should welcome them with open arms. Now optimizing the team and Brad and Russ is a good second option. But are we really to say no to Kawhi if he wants to come? Would we really say no? If things go bad in Philly and Embiid wants out, do we really say no? If Jokic wants out, do we really say no? This is a no brainer. The issue is finding a star that wants to come.

No prime..., if Leonard & Embiid want to come here, no way....
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Re: Who should Bradley and Russ woo? 

Post#59 » by gambitx777 » Wed May 19, 2021 11:27 am

The issue also is how do we find the assets lol we couldn't afford to trade for a top 15 guy right now.
payitforward wrote:
prime1time wrote:How can we go the Warrior route when Westbrook is 33? We didn’t draft him. We don’t have time to develop players. This is the first time in over 30 years where the Wizards can build a legit contender. The best bet is to hope a superstar demands a trade. And this abstract conversation about the “top heaviness” of the team is laughable. If a superstar/star wants to come here we should welcome them with open arms. Now optimizing the team and Brad and Russ is a good second option. But are we really to say no to Kawhi if he wants to come? Would we really say no? If things go bad in Philly and Embiid wants out, do we really say no? If Jokic wants out, do we really say no? This is a no brainer. The issue is finding a star that wants to come.

No prime..., if Leonard & Embiid want to come here, no way....


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Re: Who should Bradley and Russ woo? 

Post#60 » by Godymas » Wed May 19, 2021 2:22 pm

KAT is the only superstar in a "bad" situation now but he probably will give this Minnesota roster 1 year because the upside looks good with healthy DLo and Ant.

Assuming next year the Wiz get even better with Bryant back we'll be a top 6 team in the east.

Otherwise if you just look at the teams that are in the standings..which superstar really is likely to complain anytime soon? No one that would really fit.

What this team needs now is shooting, last night was an obvious wake-up call, 14% from 3 for a modern NBA team is unacceptable. Bertans has a bad game and literally no one else can stretch the floor. The last thing the Wiz need to do is pick up Demar Derozan in free agency. If we could get Duncan Robinson that would actually be really helpful.

Next year, RoLo might be worth bringing back, Alex Len can walk, Ish Smith could be worth bringing back but rlly I like getting TJ McConnell who will be a FA more, he could replace Raul Neto too although Raul has been decent.

Maybe a Jerami Grant trade could be brewing? Bertans for Grant? Grant isn't as good of a shooter but he does have much better D making him a more complete 3 & D guy the role he played in Denver could be good for Wiz.

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