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How does Webber get in? I mean, a good career. Very good. But no chip. I see him as comparable to Elvin Hayes (in petulance as well as talent). But Hayes had a title.

Pierce, for sure.

Ben Wallace? Again, a very good career, especially given where he was drafted (he wasn’t, correct?). But I don’t see a H of Fer. Maybe?

In any event, the thought of Webber and Wallace in this class is just painful for a fan of this franchise. Just brutal to contemplate.

Has anyone been to the Hall, by the way? They totally ruined it. Could not have ruined it more. Basically stashed it inside a suburban shopping mall. And got rid of the stately plaques — the greats are rendered digitally. Which is just cold and impersonal — utterly without life and personality. A total, irredeemable botch.

The Veterans Committee voted in Bobby Dandridge - Congrats to him!

Ben Wallace, 4x DPOY, 5x all defensive first team, 4x All-Star, 1 championship in 2 finals appearances, I don't mind him getting him a nod given his defensive impact on a championship team.

Webber's case is a bit harder to make, but that Kings team he led was one of the most entertaining teams in an era.

All-NBA, 5x All-Star, 3x All-NBA second team and a third team selection, he's got a lot of the individual honors and charisma that typically get players selected.

Hard to stomach seeing the return Washington got for two hall-of-fame inductees.

badinage wrote:How does Webber get in? I mean, a good career. Very good. But no chip. I see him as comparable to Elvin Hayes (in petulance as well as talent). But Hayes had a title.

Pierce, for sure.

Ben Wallace? Again, a very good career, especially given where he was drafted (he wasn’t, correct?). But I don’t see a H of Fer. Maybe?

In any event, the thought of Webber and Wallace in this class is just painful for a fan of this franchise. Just brutal to contemplate.

Has anyone been to the Hall, by the way? They totally ruined it. Could not have ruined it more. Basically stashed it inside a suburban shopping mall. And got rid of the stately plaques — the greats are rendered digitally. Which is just cold and impersonal — utterly without life and personality. A total, irredeemable botch.

Webber deserves it MUCH more than Bosh did. Bosh was only an all-nba player ONCE his whole career. Dude was never feared and he was never the lead dog on a team that meant anything. If Bosh played in the west, he makes maybe 5 all-star games. Most overrated big in a long time.

Give me Shawn Kemp (circa 96) over Chris Bosh any day of the week. At least Kemp was dominating in the finals against Rodman and the Bulls. Bosh (in his prime) got obliterated by old man Duncan in the finals. He was destroyed by freaking Roy Hibbert.

badinage wrote:How does Webber get in? I mean, a good career. Very good. But no chip. I see him as comparable to Elvin Hayes (in petulance as well as talent). But Hayes had a title.

The Kings team will be remembered as one of the greatest teams to not win a title. This is because they were going up against the greatest teams in that era - the Lakers who started Shaq, Kobe, Fisher, O'Neal, and Fox - coached by Phil Jackson. And the series is also plagued by bad officiating. And even then, they managed to take that Lakers team to OT in game 7 in a very close series.

queridiculo wrote:Ben Wallace, 4x DPOY, 5x all defensive first team, 4x All-Star, 1 championship in 2 finals appearances, I don't mind him getting him a nod given his defensive impact on a championship team.

Webber's case is a bit harder to make, but that Kings team he led was one of the most entertaining teams in an era.

And the Fab Five seemed to change or foretell the culture change of College basketball. Though Webber would probably earn a spot in the Hall of Infamy for his timeout.

doclinkin wrote:

queridiculo wrote:Ben Wallace, 4x DPOY, 5x all defensive first team, 4x All-Star, 1 championship in 2 finals appearances, I don't mind him getting him a nod given his defensive impact on a championship team.

Webber's case is a bit harder to make, but that Kings team he led was one of the most entertaining teams in an era.

And the Fab Five seemed to change or foretell the culture change of College basketball. Though Webber would probably earn a spot in the Hall of Infamy for his timeout.

And how many players have gotten traded for Penny Hardaway and 3 first round picks? And later for Googs and 3 first round picks (one of which was used to pick Vince Carter)? Only Chris Webber. That's how many.

And we won't mention the trade for Mitch Richmond and Otis Thorpe. No sir - that's long forgotten.

Huh.

When I stumbled over this thread, my first thought was "of COURSE Webber is a hall of fame player! That dude was incredible!"

Then I went to grab his advanced stats to throw down with anyone who disagreed... only to find all the warts that I'd long forgotten about.

• TS % was above league average only 4 times in 15 years.
• Assists are only as impressive as his Turnovers are awful.
• He was a self-check at the FT line for half of his career.
• Most of his counting stats are inflated by playing 39 minutes a game through his prime.
• Double digit offensive rebounding % only 3 times in 15 years.

He couldn't shoot, turned the ball over too much, didn't crash the offensive glass, and was never known as a defensive anchor. Wow. Just wow. I feel like I just stepped through the looking glass. I LOVED watching Webber as a kid. Now I can't help but see him through the Moreyball lens, and it hurts my soul.

Sorry Chris. You were supremely talented, a joy to watch, and basically the empty stats KAT of your generation. RIP my man. RIP.

What a great post, illuminaire. Very ... illuminairing. And witty and sharp and full of interesting data. Thank you.

CWebb was kind of in the conversation of that golden age of power forwards in the early 2000's: Duncan, KG, Dirk but always seemed a half below those three. Otoh, he was a half-step better than that second tier of PFs (think Blake Griffin, STAT, Sheed, Elton Brand).

Then the PF position kind of went away so there's really no one to compare him with. Lebron, KD, Melo, Draymond, Giannis, and even Siakam aren't exactly prototypical PFs.

KAT and AD are the only guys that come to mind. CWebb is better than KAT but not as good as AD, and that's kind of the same comparison as with is peers. Half step below that top tier, and half step above the second tier. Oh, LMA. Maybe Lemarcus is the 2010's equivalent of CWebb. Kevin Love?

idk, i'm just rambling.

I was a teenager at the time - I clearly remember Webber going for 40-10-10 one game. He's top 5 in my list of favorite DC players for sure. I also remember he was dead-set against playing center, even with Juwan Howard here. I can't imagine a Muresan-Webber-Howard front line today, but we did it all the time in the '90s.

I've looked up Webber's stats too and I was less than impressed. For his era, though, before analytics, he was great. And he was a walking highlight reel.

I don't think a chip should make you a hall or f fammer . I think webber deserves it.

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One thing about Webber and the Hall of Fame is that it is the Basketball Hall of Fame vs. the NBA Hall of Fame, so College should count for something.