Re: Political Roundtable Part XXX
Posted: Thu May 19, 2022 8:08 pm
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Zonkerbl wrote:I feel like Fetterman's an example, like Trump was, that noninformed voters (which is about 80% of them) respond more to personality than policy.
Pointgod wrote:And you know how I know that no one votes on policy? Republicans are comfortable taking votes like this. Republicans aren’t going to punish them electoral, Independents aren’t picking a side, Democrats aren’t consistently turning out in record numbers, young voters aren’t turning out consistently to punish them, non voters can’t be bothered to register to vote them out. They’re going to continue to get away with it until it’s too late and there’s no amount of voting to make things right.
Zonkerbl wrote:I guess part of it is that the Dems need to actually pass stuff to be successful, why the GOP is successful if they stop things, which is much easier.
Wizardspride wrote:?t=MjalUTjRwY6_MFSyFg4mDg&s=19
Wizardspride wrote:?t=G9FQZYvYvjYT2Hs_GECMkw&s=19
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Zonkerbl wrote:I get the desire to point the finger at the GOP and it feels good to point out how evil they are. Gosh knows I've done it on this thread. But I think it is also useful to look at why the GOP is successful. They understand what motivates voters, and the Dems do not. There is a lot of community building that the Dems could do that they refuse to do because of their unconscious racism.
Why is legalizing marijuana too much to ask?
Why can we only talk about police reform, and not harm reduction?
Why can't we have a national level decarceration conversation?
Why can't we pass national level abortion protection laws?
Why can't we talk about a carbon tax?
None of these things are so controversial that a coordinated propaganda campaign repeating certain ideas over and over couldn't condition this nation of brainwashable idiots to accept it. The GOP gets it. Why don't the Dems? Why are they so afraid of persuasion?
Pointgod wrote:
And from a propaganda perspective the right wing is so far ahead that it’s actually scary. Billionaires are playing the long game. Look at people like Ben Shapiro and Charlie Kirk and realize that they have billionaire backers pumping tons of money into an online presence. The right wing ecosystem is coordinated to push propaganda and lies. Shapiro, Kirk, Bongino will push a message from the right and people like Tim Pool, Glenn Greenwald, Jimmy Dore push right wing talking points from the “I used to be Liberal but they are too radical” position. And that’s not even taking into account the big daddy Fox News. Just read some of these right wing nuts on Twitter and you’ll see that they have the same talking points but they at never any point tell their followers that both parties are the same or voting doesn’t mean anything. They put every issue as an existential threat to their freedom and that Democrats can never get power. There’s just not that coordination on the left where they attack each other and discourage voting for Democrats or voting all together. The answer is that there needs to be a sustained grassroots efforts in enough states that matter to move the Overton window to a less radical right wing view of politics and policies, but that takes time, coordination and a lot of money, but most importantly a sustained effort from voters to keep the GOP from gaining power.
Pointgod wrote:Zonkerbl wrote:I get the desire to point the finger at the GOP and it feels good to point out how evil they are. Gosh knows I've done it on this thread. But I think it is also useful to look at why the GOP is successful. They understand what motivates voters, and the Dems do not. There is a lot of community building that the Dems could do that they refuse to do because of their unconscious racism.
Why is legalizing marijuana too much to ask?
Why can we only talk about police reform, and not harm reduction?
Why can't we have a national level decarceration conversation?
Why can't we pass national level abortion protection laws?
Why can't we talk about a carbon tax?
None of these things are so controversial that a coordinated propaganda campaign repeating certain ideas over and over couldn't condition this nation of brainwashable idiots to accept it. The GOP gets it. Why don't the Dems? Why are they so afraid of persuasion?
You keep saying that the Dems have unconscious racism but you don’t provide any concrete examples as to how that plays out.
The Republicans have smartly realized that the majority of policies and legislation get pushed through the state level. Everything you talked about, climate change policies, legalizing marijuana, ending qualified immunity can all be done at the state level. How many states have a Democratic House, Senate and Governor? I’m guessing that it’s less than 20. So that means over half of the states are either outright hostile to the policies above or there’s gridlock to do anything because of Republicans. At the Federal level Republicans have a built in advantage in the Senate where Democratic Senators represent something like 30 million more votes yet the Senate is 50/50 and the idiots like Manchin and Sinema refuse to get rid of the filibuster. It’s easy for Republicans in Congress to say vote for us and we’ll ensure that the big bad Federal government won’t tell you what to do, while they can carry out their monstrous agenda at the state level. The majority of people in Kentucky may want to legalize weed, but not if it’s the big bad government telling them they have to. Keep in mind, Kentucky has a Democratic Governor, at some point it’s up to the voters to hold the clowns in the state legislature responsible for blocking any type of progress.
And from a propaganda perspective the right wing is so far ahead that it’s actually scary. Billionaires are playing the long game. Look at people like Ben Shapiro and Charlie Kirk and realize that they have billionaire backers pumping tons of money into an online presence. The right wing ecosystem is coordinated to push propaganda and lies. Shapiro, Kirk, Bongino will push a message from the right and people like Tim Pool, Glenn Greenwald, Jimmy Dore push right wing talking points from the “I used to be Liberal but they are too radical” position. And that’s not even taking into account the big daddy Fox News. Just read some of these right wing nuts on Twitter and you’ll see that they have the same talking points but they at never any point tell their followers that both parties are the same or voting doesn’t mean anything. They put every issue as an existential threat to their freedom and that Democrats can never get power. There’s just not that coordination on the left where they attack each other and discourage voting for Democrats or voting all together. The answer is that there needs to be a sustained grassroots efforts in enough states that matter to move the Overton window to a less radical right wing view of politics and policies, but that takes time, coordination and a lot of money, but most importantly a sustained effort from voters to keep the GOP from gaining power.