ImageImageImageImageImage

2021 Offseason & Offseason Grades

Moderators: LyricalRico, nate33, montestewart

Offseason grade

A
7
25%
B
17
61%
C
3
11%
D
1
4%
F
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 28

User avatar
Tyrone Messby
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,330
And1: 417
Joined: Feb 16, 2009

Re: 2021 Offseason 

Post#21 » by Tyrone Messby » Thu Jun 3, 2021 6:17 pm

payitforward wrote:
SUPERBALLMAN wrote:
Tyrone Messby wrote:Wow I can’t wait to see what over the hill vet we sign to get us over the hump. Thank you Mr. Ted, you’re so generous!!

This organization is clueless. We need to break it all up.

Say goodbye to our 1st round pick....

If we trade our pick, I will stop being a Wizards fan.


If they go the win now route (which they will), you can say goodbye to that first round pick. The best thing would be for Beal to request a trade privately. We’ve been mediocre and our ceiling is a 4 or 5 seed with the majority of this roster. No thanks.

We need to go into a rebuild especially as the Nets and Sixers run the East for the next 2-3 years barring injuries. We could be a GREAT position once they start falling off.
DCZards
General Manager
Posts: 9,997
And1: 3,971
Joined: Jul 16, 2005
Location: The Streets of DC
     

Re: 2021 Offseason 

Post#22 » by DCZards » Thu Jun 3, 2021 8:12 pm

TGW wrote:Sounds pretty bold for a guy who hasn't put together a team that's reached .500 yet. Let's see moves that actually translates into wins, Tommy.

The Zards were 25-17 during the 2020-21 season and 34-38 this past season. That’s 9 more wins despite a lousy start to the season.

Still work to be done but Tommy has done a solid job thus far.
Ruzious
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 47,909
And1: 11,579
Joined: Jul 17, 2001
       

Re: 2021 Offseason 

Post#23 » by Ruzious » Thu Jun 3, 2021 8:39 pm

Tyrone Messby wrote:
payitforward wrote:
SUPERBALLMAN wrote:Say goodbye to our 1st round pick....

If we trade our pick, I will stop being a Wizards fan.


If they go the win now route (which they will), you can say goodbye to that first round pick. The best thing would be for Beal to request a trade privately. We’ve been mediocre and our ceiling is a 4 or 5 seed with the majority of this roster. No thanks.

We need to go into a rebuild especially as the Nets and Sixers run the East for the next 2-3 years barring injuries. We could be a GREAT position once they start falling off.

One thing we learned and relearned so many times going back to the Abe Pollin years is that trading first round picks led to a circular fighting for the last playoff seed loop that should be avoided unless people are happy with mediocrity. I'm going to give Tommy the bene of the d - until he proves me wrong - and guess he won't trade the pick.
"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." - Douglas Adams
prime1time
Analyst
Posts: 3,435
And1: 1,868
Joined: Nov 02, 2016
         

Re: 2021 Offseason 

Post#24 » by prime1time » Thu Jun 3, 2021 8:58 pm

Ruzious wrote:
Tyrone Messby wrote:
payitforward wrote:If we trade our pick, I will stop being a Wizards fan.


If they go the win now route (which they will), you can say goodbye to that first round pick. The best thing would be for Beal to request a trade privately. We’ve been mediocre and our ceiling is a 4 or 5 seed with the majority of this roster. No thanks.

We need to go into a rebuild especially as the Nets and Sixers run the East for the next 2-3 years barring injuries. We could be a GREAT position once they start falling off.

One thing we learned and relearned so many times going back to the Abe Pollin years is that trading first round picks led to a circular fighting for the last playoff seed loop that should be avoided unless people are happy with mediocrity. I'm going to give Tommy the bene of the d - until he proves me wrong - and guess he won't trade the pick.

I’ll bite. Lakers traded away their first round draft picks and won. Nets has one of the most one-sides trades in the history of the NBA and lol at them now. Trading first round draft picks should be met with skepticism, but not all trades involving first round draft picks are bad decisions. More than anything the Wizards need to make good moves. Whether that means drafting the right player, signing the right player or trading for the right player.

All of that to say that the devil is in the details. Who’s available in the trade market, who can we draft etc etc.
Ruzious
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 47,909
And1: 11,579
Joined: Jul 17, 2001
       

Re: 2021 Offseason 

Post#25 » by Ruzious » Thu Jun 3, 2021 9:04 pm

prime1time wrote:
Ruzious wrote:
Tyrone Messby wrote:
If they go the win now route (which they will), you can say goodbye to that first round pick. The best thing would be for Beal to request a trade privately. We’ve been mediocre and our ceiling is a 4 or 5 seed with the majority of this roster. No thanks.

We need to go into a rebuild especially as the Nets and Sixers run the East for the next 2-3 years barring injuries. We could be a GREAT position once they start falling off.

One thing we learned and relearned so many times going back to the Abe Pollin years is that trading first round picks led to a circular fighting for the last playoff seed loop that should be avoided unless people are happy with mediocrity. I'm going to give Tommy the bene of the d - until he proves me wrong - and guess he won't trade the pick.

I’ll bite. Lakers traded away their first round draft picks and won. Nets has one of the most one-sides trades in the history of the NBA and lol at them now. Trading first round draft picks should be met with skepticism, but not all trades involving first round draft picks are bad decisions. More than anything the Wizards need to make good moves. Whether that means drafting the right player, signing the right player or trading for the right player.

All of that to say that the devil is in the details. Who’s available in the trade market, who can we draft etc etc.

Talking about teams in the middle - like the Wiz.
"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." - Douglas Adams
prime1time
Analyst
Posts: 3,435
And1: 1,868
Joined: Nov 02, 2016
         

Re: 2021 Offseason 

Post#26 » by prime1time » Thu Jun 3, 2021 9:10 pm

I’m willing to trade a draft pick for a young player like Lauri Markannen. I’m willing to package multiple firsts for a star. Lakers did the same thing to get AD. Clippers did the same thing to get PG. this notion that the middle of the NBA is permanently frozen is a myth. What we should avoid doing is trading draft picks for players who at best are role players.
dckingsfan
RealGM
Posts: 30,167
And1: 16,003
Joined: May 28, 2010

Re: 2021 Offseason 

Post#27 » by dckingsfan » Thu Jun 3, 2021 9:21 pm

prime1time wrote:I’m willing to trade a draft pick for a young player like Lauri Markannen. I’m willing to package multiple firsts for a star. Lakers did the same thing to get AD. Clippers did the same thing to get PG. this notion that the middle of the NBA is permanently frozen is a myth. What we should avoid doing is trading draft picks for players who at best are role players.

So, who is the coach you would go after and which players would you trade for another young player or star? Just wondering if you have something in mind or this is just a general idea.
payitforward
RealGM
Posts: 21,951
And1: 7,871
Joined: May 02, 2012
Location: On the Atlantic

Re: 2021 Offseason 

Post#28 » by payitforward » Thu Jun 3, 2021 10:26 pm

dckingsfan wrote:
payitforward wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:So who is the core? In my mind it is Westbrook, Beal, Bertans, Avdija and Gafford. Bryant if he can come back healthy and the dreaded conversation about Rui if he can make the jump for a season. ...

A "core" is not just "the best players." A core has to be able to move forward through some years.

In that sense, how can the 32 year old Westbrook & the 20 year old Avdija both be part of "the core?"

Westbrook as the central piece of that "core" means "win now." & that's not "win a title now," it's get the most you can out of having the guy next year & the year after.

I worry that's going to motivate Tommy to make a big mistake & sign an expensive veteran.

As to Bertans, he's not at the core of anything whatever. He's an overpaid, single-skill player. He's a problem not the answer to a problem. That doesn't mean he can't help you sometimes; it's not a criticism of him, just of the decision to re-sign him for all that $$ & all those years. & that mistake too makes me worry about Tommy doubling down by signing an expensive veteran.

In short, I see this team as reflecting two completely opposite strategies. The first is to develop a new core via the draft & being opportunistic. That core can be grown around Brad Beal; he is not too old for that. It's a plan oriented around the future.

The other strategy is to get the most we can right now out of Russ & Brad. Sacrifice anything to maximize the benefit of having those two guys for the next couple of years.

I don't like that 2d strategy.

You are getting at the core of the question and the follow-on strategy (or vice versa). I hope this discussion die in an excruciating discussion of incidental detail but on the big picture.

Strategy: What is your plan of action to move forward and what tactics are acceptable to do so to build your roster. (One could argue you should go after your coach first and then recruit toward the offensive and defensive schemes that could would run).

"...your..." -- are you asking me in particular? Or are you asking what ought to be this team's plan of action?

From my POV, I focus on being great at using the draft & being extremely opportunistic in every way:

In 2019, I would have tried to come out of the draft with Mr. Unnameable, Keldon Johnson & Daniel Gafford.

Last year at the deadline I'd have traded Davis to Boston for the #26 pick in the 2020 draft. I'd have been sure to trade up for the #35 pick as well: thus I'd have come out of the 2020 draft with Deni, Desmond Bane & Xavier Tillman. I'd also have bought a mid-R2 pick & grabbed one of Kenyon Martin Jr., Skylar Mays, or Paul Reed. I'd also have signed Nathan Knight & Nate Hinton undrafted if at all possible (i.e. as my 2-way players -- w/ Mathews moved to the main roster).

dckingsfan wrote:Core: Who are the players that you take forward both short-term and long-term. (I would argue that you have a short-term and long-term core given that it takes time to get where you want to be. But a counter to this is never look at the short-term rather keep your eye on the goal: a championship).

So, I would argue that there is a short-term core and a long-term core. Would you agree with that? If so, break down your short-term and long-term core groups.

To me that translates into players you are sure of (whom you keep, i.e. sign, long-term) & players you're not as sure of -- you try to be good enough at picking those guys that, over time, you become sure of the maximum number of them.

You may want to trade players out of either group if there's a chance to be opportunistic.

The greatest skill is not being able to outline "strategy." That's actually pretty easy. The greatest skill is being able to see opportunity when it's available to you -- i.e. to execute on strategy with maximal positive effect but also to let go of an asset you've viewed as "strategic" if/when a better asset is available to you.
Breaking News: In a shocking development, Wizards owner Ted Leonsis has sold the NBA franchise to a consortium of participants in a discussion board devoted to the team on realgm.com. Details to follow....
User avatar
SUPERBALLMAN
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,879
And1: 898
Joined: Aug 08, 2006
     

Re: 2021 Offseason 

Post#29 » by SUPERBALLMAN » Thu Jun 3, 2021 11:35 pm

Off-season Plan

Retain Brooks 5 yr deal

Trade for Kemba Walker outgoing package Hachimura, Avdija, 1st round pick

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/262810/Celtics-Will-Explore-Trading-Kemba-Walker


Starting lineup Westbrook, Walker, Beal, Bertans, Bryant

Bench Ish, Neto, Winston, Matthews, Hutchison, Gil, Lopez, Gafford, Len
"I love it when a plan comes together" - Colonel John "Hannibal" Smith
payitforward
RealGM
Posts: 21,951
And1: 7,871
Joined: May 02, 2012
Location: On the Atlantic

Re: 2021 Offseason 

Post#30 » by payitforward » Thu Jun 3, 2021 11:39 pm

prime1time wrote:I’m willing to trade a draft pick for a young player like Lauri Markannen. I’m willing to package multiple firsts for a star. Lakers did the same thing to get AD. Clippers did the same thing to get PG. this notion that the middle of the NBA is permanently frozen is a myth. What we should avoid doing is trading draft picks for players who at best are role players.

Respectfully, the problem with this is...

a) Anybody would pay the price for Anthony Davis! & Paul George came pretty cheap, if I remember rightly. Thus, saying "I'm willing to..." do that is just saying something that we both know goes without saying! (Then there's the very different question of where you'd find the $35+m to pay Anthony Davis)

b) Leaving Lauri Markannen asid for a moment, if "a young player" were good enough, anybody would trade a draft pick for him. Then there's the very different question of finding the right one -- who is also on the market. What would make you think Markannen is worth e.g. the #15 pick in this draft? Hopefully, it's not the fact that he himself went #7. A whole lot of players taken a whole lot later in his draft (including one taken near the bottom of R2) have been way better than Markannen -- who hasn't been very good at all.

"What we should avoid doing is trading draft picks for players who at best are role players," you write. What would make you think Lauri Markannen is anything but a role player?
Breaking News: In a shocking development, Wizards owner Ted Leonsis has sold the NBA franchise to a consortium of participants in a discussion board devoted to the team on realgm.com. Details to follow....
User avatar
likwitdesi
Starter
Posts: 2,389
And1: 60
Joined: Jul 20, 2004

Re: 2021 Offseason 

Post#31 » by likwitdesi » Fri Jun 4, 2021 12:04 am

I would only trade away first round picks for stars or for near-stars/players on the star path (Wood and Jonathan Isaac being examples).
trast66
Rookie
Posts: 1,177
And1: 614
Joined: Oct 20, 2017
   

Re: 2021 Offseason 

Post#32 » by trast66 » Fri Jun 4, 2021 12:16 am

To me, it sounds like Brooks will be back and the first round pick is available. If this off-season is about pleasing Brad, then that makes sense.

Nightmare.
payitforward
RealGM
Posts: 21,951
And1: 7,871
Joined: May 02, 2012
Location: On the Atlantic

Re: 2021 Offseason 

Post#33 » by payitforward » Fri Jun 4, 2021 12:34 am

likwitdesi wrote:I would only trade away first round picks for stars or for near-stars/players on the star path (Wood and Jonathan Isaac being examples).

Jonathan Isaac? He's recovering from a very serious acl tear, isn't he? Not the first knee injury he's suffered either, if I remember right... Do you mean someone else?

Taking Wood as an example, what pick or picks would it take to acquire him? To put it another way, why would Houston give you Christian Wood in return for anything less than a package of value equal to Christian Wood?

Answer: they wouldn't. Duh.... & there you have the perfect disproof of the idea that you can get better by trading R1 picks. You can't. Period.

The way you acquire Christian Wood is you sign him for free -- as both Ruzious & I begged us to do literally for years. That's called being opportunistic.

Or, you trade for him before he's established himself -- as we did in the case of Daniel Gafford. Though it would have been better to do it earlier in the year, when we might have gotten him for, say, Isaac Bonga --rather than having to give up a guy we picked #15 in the draft (who was terrific for the Bulls, btw -- no surprise).

Or you figure out how to acquire him in the draft -- as we might have in the case Gafford & certainly could have in the case of Christian Wood.
Breaking News: In a shocking development, Wizards owner Ted Leonsis has sold the NBA franchise to a consortium of participants in a discussion board devoted to the team on realgm.com. Details to follow....
payitforward
RealGM
Posts: 21,951
And1: 7,871
Joined: May 02, 2012
Location: On the Atlantic

Re: 2021 Offseason 

Post#34 » by payitforward » Fri Jun 4, 2021 12:37 am

SUPERBALLMAN wrote:Off-season Plan

Retain Brooks 5 yr deal

Trade for Kemba Walker outgoing package Hachimura, Avdija, 1st round pick

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/262810/Celtics-Will-Explore-Trading-Kemba-Walker


Starting lineup Westbrook, Walker, Beal, Bertans, Bryant

Bench Ish, Neto, Winston, Matthews, Hutchison, Gil, Lopez, Gafford, Len

Oh God... did you have to? What a nightmare....
Breaking News: In a shocking development, Wizards owner Ted Leonsis has sold the NBA franchise to a consortium of participants in a discussion board devoted to the team on realgm.com. Details to follow....
payitforward
RealGM
Posts: 21,951
And1: 7,871
Joined: May 02, 2012
Location: On the Atlantic

Re: 2021 Offseason 

Post#35 » by payitforward » Fri Jun 4, 2021 12:40 am

Fortunately, a quick look at our salaries & it's clear that this is impossible.
Breaking News: In a shocking development, Wizards owner Ted Leonsis has sold the NBA franchise to a consortium of participants in a discussion board devoted to the team on realgm.com. Details to follow....
NatP4
RealGM
Posts: 13,833
And1: 5,309
Joined: Jul 24, 2016
         

Re: 2021 Offseason 

Post#36 » by NatP4 » Fri Jun 4, 2021 1:14 am

That might be the worst hypothetical trade I have ever seen
Silvie Lysandra
Starter
Posts: 2,093
And1: 369
Joined: May 22, 2007
   

Re: 2021 Offseason 

Post#37 » by Silvie Lysandra » Fri Jun 4, 2021 4:09 am

again, the question is:

Can Bradley Beal be the best player on a championship team?
Is he worth 50 million a year?

I think the answer to both those questions is "no".
User avatar
gambitx777
General Manager
Posts: 9,620
And1: 1,730
Joined: Dec 18, 2012

Re: 2021 Offseason 

Post#38 » by gambitx777 » Fri Jun 4, 2021 4:53 am

I kind of think that's what I'm coming to as well like he's gonna get big big money and at some point a guy like beal gets over paid.

I think it comes down to what are our chances of really getting better? Idk I'm fine running it back but **** it might be best to move on in my opinion !
Chaos Revenant wrote:again, the question is:

Can Bradley Beal be the best player on a championship team?
Is he worth 50 million a year?

I think the answer to both those questions is "no".


Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app
User avatar
keynote
General Manager
Posts: 9,373
And1: 2,587
Joined: May 20, 2002
Location: Acceptance
         

Re: 2021 Offseason 

Post#39 » by keynote » Fri Jun 4, 2021 5:49 am

Frichuela wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=21

Would this mean anything? Hard to say…


Image

;-)
Always remember, my friend: the world will change again. And you may have to come back through everywhere you've been.
User avatar
FAH1223
RealGM
Posts: 15,875
And1: 6,970
Joined: Nov 01, 2005
Location: Laurel, MD
       

Re: 2021 Offseason 

Post#40 » by FAH1223 » Fri Jun 4, 2021 6:33 am

Chaos Revenant wrote:again, the question is:

Can Bradley Beal be the best player on a championship team?
Is he worth 50 million a year?

I think the answer to both those questions is "no".

Read on Twitter


Beal already told y’all he isn’t leaving and why. I quote him:

“I have control, I won’t get that anywhere else. Who else has this opportunity?”

He wants the supermax. Ted is going to give it to him. It's obvious what's happening.
Image

Return to Washington Wizards