2021 Draft Thread - Part II

[NatP4]

You can see the potential with Todd. Tons of athleticism to switch everything on D, and a legit smooth shooting stroke to space the floor. It will be interesting to see how he does in summer league. Was pretty horrendous for the G league ignite, but so was Kuminga.

It would’ve been so simple to just take Jaden Springer at 22 or Jared Butler at 31, or trade back for any of Queta/Butler/Petrusev/Wieskamp/Cooper.

Who on this board would’ve been upset with Kispert and Springer?

[lastemp3ror]

The trade of dumping Westbrook's contract to rebuild around Beal also makes no sense. Either trade both or try to retool around both but once again Shepp and the front office are trying to thread the needle and its not going to work.

It makes sense if he already got buy-in from Beal.

There will be a hundred variables from the so-called "buy-in" date to the sign the dotted line date that could change Beal's mind. Thus, I don't put much weight on what Beal is saying now versus when he signs.

I am not familiar with the trade deadlines for the Wizards to trade Beal for value, but if these moves don't pan out, then I hope they trade him. As the worst-case scenario is him leaving for nothing.

[nate33]

The trade of dumping Westbrook's contract to rebuild around Beal also makes no sense. Either trade both or try to retool around both but once again Shepp and the front office are trying to thread the needle and its not going to work.

It makes sense if he already got buy-in from Beal.

There will be a hundred variables from the so-called "buy-in" date to the sign the dotted line date that could change Beal's mind. Thus, I don't put much weight on what Beal is saying now versus when he signs.

I am not familiar with the trade deadlines for the Wizards to trade Beal for value, but if these moves don't pan out, then I hope they trade him. As the worst-case scenario is him leaving for nothing.

I agree. If Beal won't sign an extension once he is eligible this October, I would trade him.

[DCZards]

Todd reminds me of an MPJ lite. Natural looking stroke and good athleticism at 6-9 but the lack of awareness, recognition on both sides of the ball screams project. Can get lost in the speed of the game. That's concerning. Definitely needs extended run in the D-league. Not a terrible pick at 31 but they could have done alot better IMO.

I agree with you on Todd’s shortcomings. But those are the kind of things that can improve with age, experience and coaching. What can’t be taught is the size, length, athleticism and sweet shooting stroke that Todd brings with him.

After playing it safe with the 22 year-old Kispert I think it was a smart move to swing for the fences with the 19 year-old Todd.

[Ruzious]

Did Joel Ayayi really go undrafted??

Yes, he signed a 2-way contract with the Lakers.

[DCZards]

Beyond completely ignoring Winston, there's such little upside with Holiday. If he actually manages to play well, you're going to have to pay him market value. And you can't even trade him if he plays well because of that fact.

Holiday is under contract for the next two seasons for $4 mil next season and $6 mil the following season. So there’s no need to stress about paying him market value at this point.

He basically replaces Ish Smith.

Let’s hope Holiday plays well. I know that’s what I want.

[dckingsfan]

You can see the potential with Todd. Tons of athleticism to switch everything on D, and a legit smooth shooting stroke to space the floor. It will be interesting to see how he does in summer league. Was pretty horrendous for the G league ignite, but so was Kuminga.

It would’ve been so simple to just take Jaden Springer at 22 or Jared Butler at 31, or trade back for any of Queta/Butler/Petrusev/Wieskamp/Cooper.

Who on this board would’ve been upset with Kispert and Springer?

We could have easily landed Kispert, Springer & Todd. Yes, it was a disappointing draft (to me anyway). Let's see who Tommy can bring into camp.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Kispert was 3rd remaining on my board when he was pick. Solid, safe choice. Will be a plus shooter who can attack closeouts. A bit more Wally Z than Joe Harris. Not a 3&D, just a skilled offensive minded SF.

Wally Sczerbiak! That’s who he is like. Yep

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I actually really love the roster construction. There’s a ton of shooting and basketball IQ on the wing now with Bertans/Deni/Kispert/KCP, and some serious athleticism in the frontcourt with Gafford and Harrell, both are studs. Beal is Beal, he’ll have more space than ever to work with, and they got rid of Mr. ball dominant high usage boat anchor Westbrook. I didn’t realize Aaron Holiday was such a good defender according to all the analytics, he’ll be a solid backup PG.

I also like that Todd offers some Rui insurance, if he never really makes the jump that they expect him to. Obviously, we have to wait and see on the starting PG, but landing Lonzo Ball could turn this into a really good team with a ton of flexibility moving forward, and plenty of youth.

I love the roster construction as well. This is the best most balanced Wiards team that I can remember.

Around the time Brent Price and Robert Pack And Jim McIlvaine all left was the last time I thought the wizards had a really nice top to bottom roster.That was at least 25 years ago. Other than that you have to go back another 20 years to the mid 70s when Wes and Elvin Hayes had some nice Bullets teams.

[Frichuela]

Kispert was 3rd remaining on my board when he was pick. Solid, safe choice. Will be a plus shooter who can attack closeouts. A bit more Wally Z than Joe Harris. Not a 3&D, just a skilled offensive minded SF.

Wally Sczerbiak! That’s who he is like. Yep

Agreed. Wally is a pretty good comp. I also see a bit of Bojan Bogdanovic in him. I trust he can be more than just a plain shooter.

[gambitx777]

Beyond completely ignoring Winston, there's such little upside with Holiday. If he actually manages to play well, you're going to have to pay him market value. And you can't even trade him if he plays well because of that fact.

Holiday is under contract for the next two seasons for $4 mil next season and $6 mil the following season. So there’s no need to stress about paying him market value at this point.

He basically replaces Ish Smith.

Let’s hope Holiday plays well. I know that’s what I want.

You're looking at the wrong holiday on Indiana Aaron not Justin . Aaron only has one year 3.4 mill it was his rookie deal. He's a good defender and a solid playable PG. Honestly probably a better defender than anyone left in the draft at PG at that point at 31. Now that being said I would have much rather takes springer at 22 and traded for a second to take Todd. But I'm not upset about this at all. I like holiday and I like Todd I love springer but it be like that some times.

Kispert, Todd, huff and Goodwin are a nice rookie haul imo

Kispert has some Gordon Hayward in him and I can also see some Caron butler but with better shooting.

Todd if you can teach him and mold him , he could be a real steal. He has a much lower floor than all those guys y'all wanted but a much higher peak if he hits it's

Huff could have been drafted , should have too. I think he's gonna make the team and being on an X10 is a good way to evaluate him.

Goodwin screams favor , but who knows maybe he's got some dog in him.

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[Frichuela]

I actually really love the roster construction. There’s a ton of shooting and basketball IQ on the wing now with Bertans/Deni/Kispert/KCP, and some serious athleticism in the frontcourt with Gafford and Harrell, both are studs. Beal is Beal, he’ll have more space than ever to work with, and they got rid of Mr. ball dominant high usage boat anchor Westbrook. I didn’t realize Aaron Holiday was such a good defender according to all the analytics, he’ll be a solid backup PG.

I also like that Todd offers some Rui insurance, if he never really makes the jump that they expect him to. Obviously, we have to wait and see on the starting PG, but landing Lonzo Ball could turn this into a really good team with a ton of flexibility moving forward, and plenty of youth.

I like the optimism!

On Holiday, he clearly regressed last year but in his defense he was playing out of position next to TJ McConnell. Despite being 6 ft in socks, he is indeed a strong/capable defender with a 6'7.5" wingspan.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Did Joel Ayayi really go undrafted??

Yes, he signed a 2-way contract with the Lakers.

The Lakers!?!

The rich just keep getting richer.

They added WestBrook and that kid…oh my God!
I know what my Vegas odds would say. Lakers are going to win the championship next year. But I could be wrong

[gambitx777]

Did Joel Ayayi really go undrafted??

Yes, he signed a 2-way contract with the Lakers.

The Lakers!?!

The rich just keep getting richer.

They added WestBrook and that kid…oh my God!
I know what my Vegas odds would say. Lakers are going to win the championship next year. But I could be wrong

Joel ayayi is barley gonna play next year lol let's be honest . The Lakers are gonna suck up every player over 30 with anything left in the tank who doesn't have a ring.

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[Ruzious]

I actually really love the roster construction. There’s a ton of shooting and basketball IQ on the wing now with Bertans/Deni/Kispert/KCP, and some serious athleticism in the frontcourt with Gafford and Harrell, both are studs. Beal is Beal, he’ll have more space than ever to work with, and they got rid of Mr. ball dominant high usage boat anchor Westbrook. I didn’t realize Aaron Holiday was such a good defender according to all the analytics, he’ll be a solid backup PG.

I also like that Todd offers some Rui insurance, if he never really makes the jump that they expect him to. Obviously, we have to wait and see on the starting PG, but landing Lonzo Ball could turn this into a really good team with a ton of flexibility moving forward, and plenty of youth.

I like the optimism!

On Holiday, he clearly regressed last year but in his defense he was playing out of position next to TJ McConnell. Despite being 6 ft in socks, he is indeed a strong/capable defender with a 6'7.5" wingspan.

You're right. He has the same wingspan as 6'7 Kevin Huerter from that draft class. And Butler's wingspan is only 6'4, so it might not be a big deal that Aaron stands only 6'. Maybe I've misjudged him.

[dckingsfan]

I didn’t realize Aaron Holiday was such a good defender according to all the analytics, he’ll be a solid backup PG.

On Holiday, he clearly regressed last year but in his defense he was playing out of position next to TJ McConnell. Despite being 6 ft in socks, he is indeed a strong/capable defender with a 6'7.5" wingspan.

You're right. He has the same wingspan as 6'7 Kevin Huerter from that draft class. And Butler's wingspan is only 6'4, so it might not be a big deal that Aaron stands only 6'. Maybe I've misjudged him.

Yeah, I really thought Holiday was going to break out last year. But that team was so dysfunctional…

It is the offense that worries me. He isn't a great finisher - this is the part of the game that he really needs to work on - go spend a summer with Bradley Beal. I do think his 3PT shooting will rebound I could see him crossing the .400 mark at some point in his career.

[The Consiglieri]

I'm fine with Kispert at #15 but IMO Shepp got too cute and blew the #22 on a reclamation project with one year left on his rookie deal and a high upside play with low awareness. Both are Ernie specials.

The trade of dumping Westbrook's contract to rebuild around Beal also makes no sense. Either trade both or try to retool around both but once again Shepp and the front office are trying to thread the needle and its not going to work.

It is so odd. I don't hate what was done so much as find it kind of delusional and at times outright insane.

#1: What are you doing with all that Lakers debris? Are you gonna flip it? Are you gonna keep it and try to play and win w/those extraneous parts+kids+Beal.

#2: Why are you trading from 22 to 31 and only getting Holiday as the added piece? Interesting to hear on the Simmons podcast this morning that they think they're a winner, and that all 3 of them (Simmons and the other two guys) liked holiday a lot more than this board. Interesting to say the least. There were tons of guys available at 22 that I think were potentially those late draft home run types:

Bigs:
Garuba
Isaiah Jackson

Smalls:
Jaden Springer
Cam Thomas
Shariffe Cooper
Jared Butler


Cooper and Butler ended up falling to 31 and they passed so they still wouldn't have taken either of them, but it's still, look, you've got two legit interesting guys at the very least in Spring and Thomas, Jackson and Garuba both have limitations but Garuba has a sky high ceiling though low odds to make it. I'm just not sure I know what they're doing.

#3 What does Beal do if this team implodes like I expect them too? It's not so much that I expect them to be bottom 3, I don't, they added so many playable guys to the roster, that it's very hard for me to see us not being competitive, my problem is that I don't really see any dynamism to speak of. We have no elite 2 or 3, we've basically got a LeBron kinda Cav's team and a Lakers in '18-'19 style LeBron team, where there's a lot of parts that aren't horrible exactly, but aren't great or above average either, and one legit player. I happen to like Rui, and think Deni has a lot of upside, but it's not like either of them are top 50 or 75 players in the league, let alone legit parts of a Big 3, so it's parts and Beal, and when that's your team, unless you can spin it like Indiana has sporadically over the year, you end up losing close a lot of the time, and as likely or not, at the deadline I bet this is a .350 to .425 team and at that point, what do you do, and what does Beal do? If they're, I don't know, something akin to 15-20 wins, what do they do? My expectation is that at the deadline when we're like the 10 or 11 seed in the East, Beal has to decide what he wants to do:
1.Tell us he wants out
2. Tell us he'll leave now or via a sign and trade.
3. Stick and out and stay.
4. Hose us, and leave on a free after the season.

I do think this is what is happening. Listening to the Simmons podcast, Simmons thought this might make them 6-9, but the other guys were more skeptical. I'm with the latter. I see a bunch of parts, and Beal as mentioned earlier. Does Beal just move on at that point? I have no idea.

#4 Could this team actually be competitive? It is possible to see it. If Rui makes a jump, if Deni improves, if we can make some moves here and there. If nothing else, this seems much more like a ball moving Wizards team like when Beal made that infamous comment a few years ago. We've got a HUGE glut of wings so I hope at least some of these guys get traded (the Lakers guys) because I want Rui and Deni to be the focus after Beal, but it is interesting, and there is a scenario that we're just a good hard working team, a 7-8 seed type, better than the sum of their parts style.


#5 How bad could this get if it goes as wrong as I tend to think it will (a 25-33 win season and no playoffs). What would the Wiz trade off? How do they rebuild. In a game of pretend GM I'm definitely flipping Kuzma immediately, want that contract off the books immediately before his value sinks further. I've always liked Harrell and he's an expiring, so he can always be moved at the deadline, I'm not at all a KCP fan, but Beal is apparently, so maybe we have to stick with him.

#6 Coming back to the main concern, how does Beal react to a treading water type season (7-8 one series and done type season) and/or a worst case scenario bottom 8 team in the league type season)? Does he want out? I just find it impossible to believe he'd stay, but he seems to be the second most "home is comfort" type potential FA after Giannis. Otoh, Giannis was on a contender (in the LeBron sense), Beal is on a team that would implode the way the Cavs did in '10-'11 after LeBron left, so does he really want to keep doing this. I'm an 80-85% believer that he's gone unless we make a jump which seems impossible to me, even w/this trade.....


#7: Regardless of my hatred of the Kispert pick, and my issues with the pick at #31 (which on the one hand I really liked because of the ceiling, but on the other, didn't like because I think he could've been had much later and the likelihood of him reaching said season is super low compared to say, Garuba), I came out of Thursday pretty happy. We got rid of the horrible Wall/Westbrook contracts, and barely had to sacrifice much of anything to do so other than add a mid level pair of stupid contracts that are much more movable (Kuzma and KCP) and of course the semi-protected 1st the Rockets would get. That's spectacular, and means basically we are in position to help Beal if he wants to stay, or to trade away all the parts during the '22 deadline or offseason if he leaves and blow the team up just in time for two very interesting drafts ('22 and '23).

If nothing else, a team that seemed clearly and emphatically in a whirlpool to nowhere the past three years, suddenly is a room full of potential exits. Might still land in a bad way, but regardless, there are now options, loads and loads of options, and even in a worst case scenario, there can be a pay off (high picks in '22 and '23 if Beal leaves and we flush everything but a couple of kids out the door). That's nice, it's been years since anything has been interesting about this team other than when Beal will leave.

Sorry for the ridiculously long post.

[The Consiglieri]

Todd reminds me of an MPJ lite. Natural looking stroke and good athleticism at 6-9 but the lack of awareness, recognition on both sides of the ball screams project. Can get lost in the speed of the game. That's concerning. Definitely needs extended run in the D-league. Not a terrible pick at 31 but they could have done alot better IMO.

I agree with you on Todd’s shortcomings. But those are the kind of things that can improve with age, experience and coaching. What can’t be taught is the size, length, athleticism and sweet shooting stroke that Todd brings with him.

After playing it safe with the 22 year-old Kispert I think it was a smart move to swing for the fences with the 19 year-old Todd.

It's basically what I'd like the team to do, there are just other guys I would've done it for instead. It basically feels like we're trying to just hit a 1 in 7 or 8 chance that he becomes a monster, otoh, even if he doesn't, there's enough elements there to suggest that given time, even if he doesn't hit his ceiling, he actually has a moderate floor, rather than a "useless" floor like admiral a couple of years back. So there's that. It's just for me, I liked other guys more as a swing for the fences pick.

This is also why I hated the Kispert pick, or one of the many reasons. Age, athleticism, low ceiling, and the real base simple fact that Kispert is the kind of guy that makes sense as a complimentary piece for a strong or low end top 3-4 contender in the West or East (say if Phoenix, Utah, Denver, Boston, Philly, Clippers etc wanted some shooting off the bench and spot starting), but for a team that lacks even a Big 2, it makes no sense at all, it doesn't make you substantially better, but it does incrementally make you slightly more competent and less likely to land in the blue chip zone of a draft. Of course there is the trade value piece which is there. A shooter on a cheap contract who can step right in and help has legit trade value, so there's that, whereas a swing for the fences that misses badly is just gonna collapse in trade value and do so usually pretty quickly.


I'm a fan of what happened in a general sense yesterday because I see options, but in the particulars, I don't like any of the incoming players at all other than Todd, and Todd is such a low odds swing, that it's ridiculous to like pin any hopes on him to be a genuine huge difference maker in time. We already got those miracles with Gafford and Bryant who were borderline throw ins and turned into legit talents (not elite players, but genuinely usable talent), it might be a bridge too far to expect the same with Todd, but I do like the possibility that he develops into something solid, even if he doesn't pay off big time (and I'd put it at 85% that he doesn't hit the ceiling angle).

Yep, so again, for me, the positive is that we're now out of Westbrook/Wall contracts, which is huge. Going forward we have flexibility and options to either build around Beal if he inexplicably chooses to stay, or have a fire sale if he chooses to leave. That's better than we were a few days ago, I do think myself and others celebrating the miracle deal need to note the key element which is if we hadn't traded for Westbrook, we almost certainly would've landed a top 5-8 pick this past year, instead of 15, and with it, a chance at Suggs, and even a chance at Mobley. Do remember, if we finished with the 5th or 7th odds in a Beal/Wall debacle year, we'd have Suggs or Mobley. Of Course maybe we finish 4th, or 6th and tumble out of the top 5 entirely. It just needs to be noted that the #1 scenario a year ago was landing a top 5 pick in this draft, if that proved impossible the #2 scenario did happen in that we were able to get out of a franchise future killing contract through '23 w/o much of a cost beyond that angle and the semi-protected future 1sts.

[80sballboy]

I'm fine with Kispert at #15 but IMO Shepp got too cute and blew the #22 on a reclamation project with one year left on his rookie deal and a high upside play with low awareness. Both are Ernie specials.

The trade of dumping Westbrook's contract to rebuild around Beal also makes no sense. Either trade both or try to retool around both but once again Shepp and the front office are trying to thread the needle and its not going to work.

I would say it's more of a Ted special. Trying to keep Beal around and get him some solid players. Stay competitive instead of rebuilding. Make him the star, but knowing that you can't go far with just one guy. As bad as EG was, he was a puppet at the end for Ted, who thinks he knows everything since he won a Cup.

[DCZards]

Hey consig, I too would have liked the Zards to consider drafting more well-known draft targets like Cooper, Butler or Springer, which they could have done if they stayed at 22. But it seems pretty clear that the Zards liked Todd more than they liked these guys. Time will tell whether they were right or wrong.

I preferred Duke’s Jalen Johnson to Kispert because I think he’s going to eventually be a better NBA player. But I can’t argue with the decision by a shooting-starved Zards team to take the guy many have called “the best shooter in the draft.”

With Kispert and Huff the Zards have two 22 year olds who might be contributors sooner rather than later. In Todd, they have a high-upside 19 year-old project. I don’t have a problem with coming away from this draft with that mix.

(Not to mention we added a decent backup PG in Holiday.)

As far as Beal’s mindset is concerned, you have to believe he was made aware of the Westbrook trade in advance—and yet didn’t ask to be traded. Beal’s not stupid. He knows this team’s shortcomings and limitations.

I’m guessing Tommy & Co. sold Brad (at least for the time being) on the development of Rui, Deni and Gafford, the return of Bryant, and the addition of a sharpshooter in Kispert.

Then there’s the free agent monies for 2022 that was freed up with the trade of Russ.

And, of course, the fact that he can sign a bigger contract with the Zards than with anyone else has to impact Beal’s decision making.

Yes, Beal could still eventually ask for a trade. If he does, let’s hope it’s at a time when the Zards can still get some nice pieces and assets in return.