ImageImageImageImageImage

Wizards trade for Aaron Holiday

Moderators: LyricalRico, nate33, montestewart

User avatar
doclinkin
RealGM
Posts: 11,019
And1: 3,191
Joined: Jul 26, 2004
Location: .wizuds.

Re: Wizards trade for Aaron Holiday 

Post#141 » by doclinkin » Mon Aug 23, 2021 2:29 pm

For the purposes of THIS thread the only thing that matters is whether Aaron Holiday and Isaiah Todd turn out to be damn good. Nothing else matters :clown:
payitforward
RealGM
Posts: 17,232
And1: 5,619
Joined: May 02, 2012
Location: On the Atlantic

Re: Wizards trade for Aaron Holiday 

Post#142 » by payitforward » Mon Aug 23, 2021 2:33 pm

Totally correct! & let's hope they both do.
Remember -- if you don't like the post above: blame Doc not me.
payitforward
RealGM
Posts: 17,232
And1: 5,619
Joined: May 02, 2012
Location: On the Atlantic

Re: Wizards trade for Aaron Holiday 

Post#143 » by payitforward » Mon Aug 23, 2021 2:36 pm

Ruzious wrote:
payitforward wrote:coulda shoulda woulda... :crazy: :banghead: :lol:

...There were all kinds of ways to get Weiskamp and 1 of those PG's with the 15th pick - especially since Cooper was my favorite of the 3 PG's.

Edit: I accidentally left off Jared Butler (40) from the list of PG's available, so there were 4.

Agree w/ this too....
Remember -- if you don't like the post above: blame Doc not me.
User avatar
Kanyewest
General Manager
Posts: 8,536
And1: 1,745
Joined: Jul 05, 2004

Re: Wizards trade for Aaron Holiday 

Post#144 » by Kanyewest » Mon Aug 23, 2021 3:58 pm

doclinkin wrote:
pcbothwel wrote:Doc. I have to disagree. Look at the assets and where they came from. LAL didn’t send anything the BKN. Or SAS.
This was a series of trades that we combined for compliance purposes.

By incorporating the holiday trade into the LAL Russ trade, our potential TPE (or in our case, the additional salary we could take back) decreased by 4M as we sent out no additional salary. Doing this then made it non compliant to take on Dinwiddie outright.
That is why we then followed up with the Hutch salary dump (same salary as Holiday).

Meaning. If we bypassed the holiday trade and instead traded 22 for 2 early seconds, then we wouldn’t have had to dump Hutch and give up the Detroit 2nd.

Plain and simple. It was a poor trade. We elected pick 31 & Holiday over pick 34, 36, and the Detroit 2nd.

Unless you are a top 4 seed or a team flush with picks (OKC), there is no excuse to make this trade.
Even if holiday outperforms his career to date. He is a FA next summer and then we are right back to where we were. No legit backup to Dinwiddie.


You skip over the reasoning for the Holiday trade: that it reduces the leverage of Brooklyn in what they can demand for Dinwiddie, and gives us a plausible vet PG with upside to stick next to Beal. You may deem him as worthless, but it matters less what you think than what Bradley Beal thinks. Bradley Beal could give a rip about a future 2nd rounder some time in the life of his career. We on these boards fixate on such things.

The Knicks and Bulls had expressed interest in Dinwiddie. It was never a done deal. The mandate Tommy has been given has been: put a plausible winner around Beal that fits his career arc. Beal has played with rookies. They take a while to season. Loading up on rooks, especially at floor general, is not the timeline of the team that Tommy has been tasked to build. Aaron Holiday does fit that timeline. Remains to be seen if Tommy's scouting on Holiday is better than, I dunno, yours --or history I suppose-- but again, the person whose opinion matters most is Beal. And picking up Holiday first means that we appeared less needy to Sean Marks and crew and could hold firm on not taking back added salary or sending them the First round picks they were asking for. And since the Holiday deal was looped into the trades, picks had to be made that served both Indiana and LA at 22 and 31.

Would I personally have preferred to take extra picks or make a selection at 22 and not trade down? Yes. But I have powerful valence on Beal in 2 directions: he's a good guy, and has gotten better every year of his career, but have serious doubts he will be truly worth the contract it would take to sign him. Still, once he is on that contract, he will have value still and should be a useful asset inked and under our control. Health allowing. BUT. I am going to be a long term fan of the team well past Beal's career I expect. And as a draft-head I love the potential in clever picks etc. I personally don't have to care about what Beal thinks or especially, what Ted thinks. Tommy does. I am simply saying I see what he was working with, and under those instructions he did a remarkable job.


Still, one slight problem with the Pacers trade is that perhaps Shepherd didn't use the leverage that Indiana needed to offload salary to avoid luxury tax payments. What I'm seeing is that the Pacers current payroll is 135.8 million and the luxury tax threshold is 136.6 million. For the Pacers it was a very good trade and I think the Wizards could have had the deal if the Pacers were willing to throw in another 2nd rounder in a future draft (which the Wizards could have used to offload Hutchinson's salary).

Also, the Wizards leverage would have been potentially reduced if they had decided to just do a trade down from 22 for multiple 2nd rounders and take one of the point guards that were presented their as a potential option. And they wouldn't have had to attach an extra pick to trade. And of course there were still options like Schroeder (or even Kemba if the Knicks eventually decided to sign Dinwiddie as you suggested).

That being said, I do think Aaron Holiday could be a positive asset and I'm interested to see how the Todd pick turns out.
User avatar
doclinkin
RealGM
Posts: 11,019
And1: 3,191
Joined: Jul 26, 2004
Location: .wizuds.

Re: Wizards trade for Aaron Holiday 

Post#145 » by doclinkin » Mon Aug 23, 2021 5:18 pm

Kanyewest wrote:Still, one slight problem with the Pacers trade is that perhaps Shepherd didn't use the leverage that Indiana needed to offload salary to avoid luxury tax payments.


Smart point. What we got instead was "cash considerations". We used to get that all the time under Ernie. Maybe that helps Tommy's operations budget, but to fans it means nothing.
payitforward
RealGM
Posts: 17,232
And1: 5,619
Joined: May 02, 2012
Location: On the Atlantic

Re: Wizards trade for Aaron Holiday 

Post#146 » by payitforward » Tue Aug 24, 2021 1:00 am

These are the kinds of things you can't know. Maybe there was another team with some interest in Holiday. Maybe... who knows what?

Essentially, you can think of the trade as valuing Aaron Holiday at the level of about a #29 pick. I.e. #29 & #31 are a reasonable ballpark exchange for #22.
Remember -- if you don't like the post above: blame Doc not me.

Return to Washington Wizards