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Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread.

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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#221 » by doclinkin » Thu Oct 28, 2021 2:03 pm

dckingsfan wrote:
doclinkin wrote:
9 and 20 wrote:With Gafford out, does Kuzma play some backup C? That leaves the forward position manned by KCP and three of our three rhythm-challenged guys - Deni, Bertans, and Kispert. Todd is not ready for anything but garbage time minutes.

The depth we had going into the season is definitely being put to the test. Holiday played OK last night but hopefully Neto comes back soon to help make up for Beal's terribleness so far this year.


Call up Jaime Echinque? Though I think he is the only center on the GoGo.

Kind of makes a case for having Bryant :D

Lineup of the game?


Yeah if Bryant were ready it would be ideal.

Line-up of the game was Trez plus anybody. He was +21 for the game in 38 minutes.
The entire bench was in the positives though. KCP the only starter who was +.

Holiday +11
KCP +2
Kispert +9
Deni +7
Trez +21

That is not terrible actually as a bench mob.
3 solid defenders in Holiday/KCP/Deni
3 outside shooters Holiday/KCP/Kispert
2 willing playmakers Holiday/Deni
Trez in the middle.

In the pick and roll Holiday threw a few lobs that went in instead. If they had missed then Trez would have slammed them in since he was in motion on the weakside. That seemed like a useful combo. Trez + Dinwiddie was similarly good. With both rolling towards the paint teams weren't sure which to guard.
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#222 » by dckingsfan » Thu Oct 28, 2021 3:03 pm

doclinkin wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:
doclinkin wrote:
Call up Jaime Echinque? Though I think he is the only center on the GoGo.

Kind of makes a case for having Bryant :D

Lineup of the game?


Yeah if Bryant were ready it would be ideal.

Line-up of the game was Trez plus anybody. He was +21 for the game in 38 minutes.
The entire bench was in the positives though. KCP the only starter who was +.

Holiday +11
KCP +2
Kispert +9
Deni +7
Trez +21

That is not terrible actually as a bench mob.
3 solid defenders in Holiday/KCP/Deni
3 outside shooters Holiday/KCP/Kispert
2 willing playmakers Holiday/Deni
Trez in the middle.

In the pick and roll Holiday threw a few lobs that went in instead. If they had missed then Trez would have slammed them in since he was in motion on the weakside. That seemed like a useful combo. Trez + Dinwiddie was similarly good. With both rolling towards the paint teams weren't sure which to guard.

My rotation of the game was Holiday, Harrell, Avdija, Beal and Kuzma in the fourth quarter (+5). Loving your popcorn machine :D

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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#223 » by FAH1223 » Thu Oct 28, 2021 6:41 pm

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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#224 » by dckingsfan » Thu Oct 28, 2021 10:29 pm

Lineup rotations with Dinwiddie and Gafford out?
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#225 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Fri Oct 29, 2021 6:12 am

dckingsfan wrote:
doclinkin wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:Kind of makes a case for having Bryant :D

Lineup of the game?


Yeah if Bryant were ready it would be ideal.

Line-up of the game was Trez plus anybody. He was +21 for the game in 38 minutes.
The entire bench was in the positives though. KCP the only starter who was +.

Holiday +11
KCP +2
Kispert +9
Deni +7
Trez +21

That is not terrible actually as a bench mob.
3 solid defenders in Holiday/KCP/Deni
3 outside shooters Holiday/KCP/Kispert
2 willing playmakers Holiday/Deni
Trez in the middle.

In the pick and roll Holiday threw a few lobs that went in instead. If they had missed then Trez would have slammed them in since he was in motion on the weakside. That seemed like a useful combo. Trez + Dinwiddie was similarly good. With both rolling towards the paint teams weren't sure which to guard.

My rotation of the game was Holiday, Harrell, Avdija, Beal and Kuzma in the fourth quarter (+5). Loving your popcorn machine :D

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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#226 » by dckingsfan » Mon Nov 1, 2021 6:50 pm

Doesn't seem like there was a "winning" or losing rotation in the last Celtics game. There didn't seem to be a "winning" combo that Wes could target.

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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#227 » by dckingsfan » Tue Nov 2, 2021 5:39 am

Neto, Beal, Avdija, Bertans, Harrell was an ugly lineup.

Neto, Beal, KCP, Gafford, Kuzma was pretty ugly too.

Basically the Neto/Beal combo wasn't that productive tonight. Something to watch going forward?

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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#228 » by NatP4 » Tue Nov 2, 2021 3:07 pm

I’ll say it again, the starting 4 on this team needs to be Avdija. The guy is blocking shots and rebounding at a PF rate. His shot will start to fall more going forward.

When healthy they need to get to this rotation IMO:

Dinwiddie 30 Neto 18
Beal 32 Kispert 16
KCP 24 Bertans 20 Avdija 4
Avdija 24 Rui 24
Gafford 28 Harrell 20

Said it from the beginning of the season, we hit on both Kispert and Avdija. Kuzma is going to come crashing back down to earth. We need more time to see if Rui can be anything more than a markieff morris clone
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#229 » by dckingsfan » Tue Nov 2, 2021 7:20 pm

NatP4 wrote:I’ll say it again, the starting 4 on this team needs to be Avdija. The guy is blocking shots and rebounding at a PF rate. His shot will start to fall more going forward.

When healthy they need to get to this rotation IMO:

Dinwiddie 30 Neto 18
Beal 32 Kispert 16
KCP 24 Bertans 20 Avdija 4
Avdija 24 Rui 24
Gafford 28 Harrell 20

Said it from the beginning of the season, we hit on both Kispert and Avdija. Kuzma is going to come crashing back down to earth. We need more time to see if Rui can be anything more than a markieff morris clone

One thing that Kuzma is doing very well is rebounding the ball. And both Avdija and Kuzma are both playing good defense.

I think that we also see with Gafford's injury - it is good to have depth. I wouldn't be opposed to a rotation at PF with Avidja, Rui and Kuzma and same at C when Bryant returns.

Wes is going to have some decisions to make.

Next up - why is Beal playing soooo poorly and how does he break out?
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#230 » by DCZards » Tue Nov 2, 2021 7:56 pm

NatP4 wrote:I’ll say it again, the starting 4 on this team needs to be Avdija. The guy is blocking shots and rebounding at a PF rate. His shot will start to fall more going forward.

When healthy they need to get to this rotation IMO:

Dinwiddie 30 Neto 18
Beal 32 Kispert 16
KCP 24 Bertans 20 Avdija 4
Avdija 24 Rui 24
Gafford 28 Harrell 20

Said it from the beginning of the season, we hit on both Kispert and Avdija. Kuzma is going to come crashing back down to earth. We need more time to see if Rui can be anything more than a markieff morris clone

Kuzma needs to continue to get minutes. He’s playing well and helping the Zards win games. He may come crashing back down to earth but until that happens he’s earned the minutes he’s getting.

Really like what I’ve been seeing from Deni. He’s been one of the Zards best defenders and his offense is coming around. Deni had his best offensive game last night against ATL. I expect him to earn more and more minutes.
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#231 » by dckingsfan » Tue Nov 2, 2021 8:07 pm

One little correction - in my mind, Kuzma is not playing "well" right now due to his offensive woes...
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#232 » by NatP4 » Tue Nov 2, 2021 8:37 pm

I’m not sure what Kuzma is really doing well besides rebounding. 51% TS for a PF is brutal. More turnovers than assists. Doesn’t provide any rim protection or shot blocking. 99 offensive rating and 105 offensive rating. Dead last on the team with a -10.3 on/off differential(Kispert and Avdija are 1st and 2nd on the team).

I’m gonna sell on the extra 4 defensive rebounds per game vs his career averages. Regression is coming.

Regardless, he has not been good this year, at all.
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#233 » by NatP4 » Tue Nov 2, 2021 8:38 pm

Avdija is a 20 year old former 9th overall pick in his 2nd season. Kuzma is a journeyman fringe NBA player on a terrible contract.

The minutes need to be flipped.
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#234 » by dckingsfan » Tue Nov 2, 2021 8:50 pm

NatP4 wrote:Avdija is a 20 year old former 9th overall pick in his 2nd season. Kuzma is a journeyman fringe NBA player on a terrible contract.

The minutes need to be flipped.

It is going to be interesting to see how Wes pulls this move off without upsetting the current "balance"...
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#235 » by Ruzious » Tue Nov 2, 2021 8:56 pm

dckingsfan wrote:
NatP4 wrote:Avdija is a 20 year old former 9th overall pick in his 2nd season. Kuzma is a journeyman fringe NBA player on a terrible contract.

The minutes need to be flipped.

It is going to be interesting to see how Wes pulls this move off without upsetting the current "balance"...

With Rui out and Bertans day to day, it shouldn't be hard in the short-term to get plenty of minutes to Avdija. And if he does well in the short-term, he should continue to get minutes in the long-term.
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#236 » by NatP4 » Tue Nov 2, 2021 9:14 pm

Ruzious wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:
NatP4 wrote:Avdija is a 20 year old former 9th overall pick in his 2nd season. Kuzma is a journeyman fringe NBA player on a terrible contract.

The minutes need to be flipped.

It is going to be interesting to see how Wes pulls this move off without upsetting the current "balance"...

With Rui out and Bertans day to day, it shouldn't be hard in the short-term to get plenty of minutes to Avdija. And if he does well in the short-term, he should continue to get minutes in the long-term.


Don’t forget the part where we trade Kuzma and Rui for Ben Simmons.
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#237 » by dckingsfan » Tue Nov 2, 2021 9:14 pm

Ruzious wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:
NatP4 wrote:Avdija is a 20 year old former 9th overall pick in his 2nd season. Kuzma is a journeyman fringe NBA player on a terrible contract.

The minutes need to be flipped.

It is going to be interesting to see how Wes pulls this move off without upsetting the current "balance"...

With Rui out and Bertans day to day, it shouldn't be hard in the short-term to get plenty of minutes to Avdija. And if he does well in the short-term, he should continue to get minutes in the long-term.

I think that Nat's point is that Kuzma has played twice the minutes that Avidja has played. As we move on - how would a reversal of roles be greeted?
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#238 » by DCZards » Tue Nov 2, 2021 9:27 pm

NatP4 wrote:I’m not sure what Kuzma is really doing well besides rebounding. 51% TS for a PF is brutal. More turnovers than assists. Doesn’t provide any rim protection or shot blocking. 99 offensive rating and 105 offensive rating. Dead last on the team with a -10.3 on/off differential(Kispert and Avdija are 1st and 2nd on the team).

I’m gonna sell on the extra 4 defensive rebounds per game vs his career averages. Regression is coming.

Regardless, he has not been good this year, at all.

I’ll grant you that Kuz’s offense has been spotty…and I’m not expecting him to be a rim protector (nor will Deni be a rim protector or shot blocker).

But Kuzma’s rebounding has been outstanding and his defense has been solid.
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#239 » by Ruzious » Tue Nov 2, 2021 9:50 pm

NatP4 wrote:
Ruzious wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:It is going to be interesting to see how Wes pulls this move off without upsetting the current "balance"...

With Rui out and Bertans day to day, it shouldn't be hard in the short-term to get plenty of minutes to Avdija. And if he does well in the short-term, he should continue to get minutes in the long-term.


Don’t forget the part where we trade Kuzma and Rui for Ben Simmons.

Now we're talking! And it could be possible - especially if we add a pick and a pick swap. Rui put up some good numbers against Philly in the playoffs.
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#240 » by payitforward » Wed Nov 3, 2021 1:37 am

DCZards wrote:
NatP4 wrote:I’m not sure what Kuzma is really doing well besides rebounding. 51% TS for a PF is brutal. More turnovers than assists. Doesn’t provide any rim protection or shot blocking. 99 offensive rating and 105 offensive rating. Dead last on the team with a -10.3 on/off differential(Kispert and Avdija are 1st and 2nd on the team).

I’m gonna sell on the extra 4 defensive rebounds per game vs his career averages. Regression is coming.

Regardless, he has not been good this year, at all.

I’ll grant you that Kuz’s offense has been spotty…and I’m not expecting him to be a rim protector (nor will Deni be a rim protector or shot blocker).

But Kuzma’s rebounding has been outstanding and his defense has been solid.

Kuzma had an off game vs. Atlanta -- especially rebounding the ball -- & our rebounding might be what cost us the game.

But he's also playing over 36 minutes a game -- more than he's played in the past. He could play fewer minutes.... & to be sure, Deni could have his minutes bumped some.

I'd like to see Kispert get a bunch more minutes. So far, he's looked very good. He needs more floor time &, above all, he needs shots!
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