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Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread.

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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#81 » by doclinkin » Wed Aug 25, 2021 2:01 pm

WallToWall wrote:
payitforward wrote:
DCZards wrote:I found it particularly interesting what Unseld Jr. had to say about Kuzma. He seems to have serious plans for using him as an offensive weapon. Of all the new players, I think Kuzma is the one most likely to really shine in a new setting.

For sure he will have plenty of opportunities to shine.
I'm really interested to see how minutes are distributed & who winds up playing with whom at forward. Rui played 31.5 minutes per game last year. Bertans played over 25.5 minutes per game. For the moment, let's assume those minutes don't drop.
Kuzma logged almost 29 minutes a game for LA last year. His career average in 4 seasons is almost 30 minutes a game. If his minutes don't drop -- which is what one would expect, given that he is going from a better team to a worse team -- those 3 guys only leave about 10 minutes per game for anyone else at forward.
Presumably, KCP will back up Brad & probably also eat up those 10 minutes -- that should get him close to the 28 minutes a game he played for the Lakers last year.
Kind of leaves Deni the odd man out -- & no minutes for Kispert either.
It'll be extremely interesting to see how this works out! Seems kind of challenging to me....


This is a great problem to have. If a forward is not playing well, or just doesnt match up well, then he will get fewer minutes. I think the coach will play to the strengths of each forward and put each in the game at opportune times. I, for one, dont expect to have the same predictable starters, or minutes spread each game at the forward spots, like I would at SG or PG. Also, keep in mind that injuries will happen. This depth at forward is a good thing.


One thing I like about our depth is that we can form two pretty even teams to contest each other in practice, even starters vs back-ups. The depth is thin at guard, but everywhere else the coach can freely mix and match to see what wins and who is playing well with each other.


And to get a running start on the chemistry he can field two teams each with a core of guys who have played together:

once and future wizards

D-widdie/Neto
Beal
Bertans
Hachimura
Gafford/Bryant

-vs-

the new guys

Holiday
KCP/Kispert
Kuzma
Deni (injury shortened rookie year, counting him as new)
Harrell

That seems like a pretty close contest, and you could swap any one player for another to see how the chemistry works.
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#82 » by doclinkin » Wed Aug 25, 2021 2:02 pm

WallToWall wrote:
payitforward wrote:
DCZards wrote:I found it particularly interesting what Unseld Jr. had to say about Kuzma. He seems to have serious plans for using him as an offensive weapon. Of all the new players, I think Kuzma is the one most likely to really shine in a new setting.

For sure he will have plenty of opportunities to shine.
I'm really interested to see how minutes are distributed & who winds up playing with whom at forward. Rui played 31.5 minutes per game last year. Bertans played over 25.5 minutes per game. For the moment, let's assume those minutes don't drop.
Kuzma logged almost 29 minutes a game for LA last year. His career average in 4 seasons is almost 30 minutes a game. If his minutes don't drop -- which is what one would expect, given that he is going from a better team to a worse team -- those 3 guys only leave about 10 minutes per game for anyone else at forward.
Presumably, KCP will back up Brad & probably also eat up those 10 minutes -- that should get him close to the 28 minutes a game he played for the Lakers last year.
Kind of leaves Deni the odd man out -- & no minutes for Kispert either.
It'll be extremely interesting to see how this works out! Seems kind of challenging to me....


This is a great problem to have. If a forward is not playing well, or just doesnt match up well, then he will get fewer minutes. I think the coach will play to the strengths of each forward and put each in the game at opportune times. I, for one, dont expect to have the same predictable starters, or minutes spread each game at the forward spots, like I would at SG or PG. Also, keep in mind that injuries will happen. This depth at forward is a good thing.


One thing I like about our depth is that we can form two pretty even teams to contest each other in practice, even starters vs back-ups. The depth is thin at guard, but everywhere else the coach can freely mix and match to see what wins and who is playing well with each other.



And to get a running start on the chemistry he can field two teams each with a core of guys who have played together:

-=EDIT=-

moved to line up thread.
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#83 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Wed Aug 25, 2021 10:53 pm

doclinkin wrote:
WallToWall wrote:
payitforward wrote:For sure he will have plenty of opportunities to shine.
I'm really interested to see how minutes are distributed & who winds up playing with whom at forward. Rui played 31.5 minutes per game last year. Bertans played over 25.5 minutes per game. For the moment, let's assume those minutes don't drop.
Kuzma logged almost 29 minutes a game for LA last year. His career average in 4 seasons is almost 30 minutes a game. If his minutes don't drop -- which is what one would expect, given that he is going from a better team to a worse team -- those 3 guys only leave about 10 minutes per game for anyone else at forward.
Presumably, KCP will back up Brad & probably also eat up those 10 minutes -- that should get him close to the 28 minutes a game he played for the Lakers last year.
Kind of leaves Deni the odd man out -- & no minutes for Kispert either.
It'll be extremely interesting to see how this works out! Seems kind of challenging to me....


This is a great problem to have. If a forward is not playing well, or just doesnt match up well, then he will get fewer minutes. I think the coach will play to the strengths of each forward and put each in the game at opportune times. I, for one, dont expect to have the same predictable starters, or minutes spread each game at the forward spots, like I would at SG or PG. Also, keep in mind that injuries will happen. This depth at forward is a good thing.


One thing I like about our depth is that we can form two pretty even teams to contest each other in practice, even starters vs back-ups. The depth is thin at guard, but everywhere else the coach can freely mix and match to see what wins and who is playing well with each other.


And to get a running start on the chemistry he can field two teams each with a core of guys who have played together:

once and future wizards

D-widdie/Neto
Beal
Bertans
Hachimura
Gafford/Bryant

-vs-

the new guys

Holiday
KCP/Kispert
Kuzma
Deni (injury shortened rookie year, counting him as new)
Harrell

That seems like a pretty close contest, and you could swap any one player for another to see how the chemistry works.


Swapped the former Laker, Bryant, with Deni. Thomas and Kuzma were Laker rookies together. Thomas, as I read you posted IIRC, trains with Montrezl. Put him against the odds on guy to start at C, Gafford.

I think it would be better for the newcomers to beat the incumbent "once and future Wizards", initially. That way jobs like Rui Hachimura as a starter might be more easily ceded, if need be.

TGW or Illuminaire, I think, mentioned they want Rui starting over Kuzma in order to develop into a better player. Not that he's currently better. NO, I think the best possible combo needs to play. Win the most games and worry about the rest, later if at all.
After the Wizards GM really went and did it by having an imaginative, strong, draft day. I totally feel this as well;

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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#84 » by SUPERBALLMAN » Thu Aug 26, 2021 2:56 am

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
doclinkin wrote:
WallToWall wrote:
This is a great problem to have. If a forward is not playing well, or just doesnt match up well, then he will get fewer minutes. I think the coach will play to the strengths of each forward and put each in the game at opportune times. I, for one, dont expect to have the same predictable starters, or minutes spread each game at the forward spots, like I would at SG or PG. Also, keep in mind that injuries will happen. This depth at forward is a good thing.


One thing I like about our depth is that we can form two pretty even teams to contest each other in practice, even starters vs back-ups. The depth is thin at guard, but everywhere else the coach can freely mix and match to see what wins and who is playing well with each other.


And to get a running start on the chemistry he can field two teams each with a core of guys who have played together:

once and future wizards

D-widdie/Neto
Beal
Bertans
Hachimura
Gafford/Bryant

-vs-

the new guys

Holiday
KCP/Kispert
Kuzma
Deni (injury shortened rookie year, counting him as new)
Harrell

That seems like a pretty close contest, and you could swap any one player for another to see how the chemistry works.


Swapped the former Laker, Bryant, with Deni. Thomas and Kuzma were Laker rookies together. Thomas, as I read you posted IIRC, trains with Montrezl. Put him against the odds on guy to start at C, Gafford.

I think it would be better for the newcomers to beat the incumbent "once and future Wizards", initially. That way jobs like Rui Hachimura as a starter might be more easily ceded, if need be.

TGW or Illuminaire, I think, mentioned they want Rui starting over Kuzma in order to develop into a better player. Not that he's currently better. NO, I think the best possible combo needs to play. Win the most games and worry about the rest, later if at all.



Yeah, I think if anyone is the odd man out it's Bertans.

I see Rui and Kuzma starting together. KCP and Deni are the top guys off the bench. I'm thinking Wes Jr is going to value versatility and defense.

Bertans (and Kispert) should only see the floor when we need to inject some 3 point shooters into the offense. If we hit a stretch were guys are looking lifeless and legless, spacing is bad, shots aren't falling, turnovers are racking up.... Inject Bertans to jump start the offense. That should be his only role this season, other wise getting pt in situations of players out with illness, injury, fouls, rest, suspension, etc.

But if all cylinders are hitting Bertans should not get off the bench.
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#85 » by Ruzious » Thu Aug 26, 2021 8:56 am

It's popular to say that our depth at forward is a good thing, but what it really means is that a young player or 2 will not get appropriate time to develop and/or a highly paid veteran sits as we watch his trade value evaporate. They really should make a consolidation trade.
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#86 » by payitforward » Thu Aug 26, 2021 12:58 pm

Agreed. & nate suggested the following for Davis:
nate33 wrote:The Pelicans do have a $17M TPE. They definitely wouldn't include a 1st to acquire Bertans, but I'd do the trade if they gave us a 2nd. It would clear up a redundancy in the roster, free up playing time for Avdija, give us more luxtax flexibility to make a midseason move, and we'd land an $11M TPE that might come in handy....

I responded in agreement, suggesting that we could use the roster spot to re-sign Mathews.

We move a forward, gain a guard, get back a lot of the shooting Davis brought, increase our financial flexibility by a lot, & get younger.
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#87 » by SUPERBALLMAN » Thu Aug 26, 2021 1:51 pm

payitforward wrote:Agreed. & nate suggested the following for Davis:
nate33 wrote:The Pelicans do have a $17M TPE. They definitely wouldn't include a 1st to acquire Bertans, but I'd do the trade if they gave us a 2nd. It would clear up a redundancy in the roster, free up playing time for Avdija, give us more luxtax flexibility to make a midseason move, and we'd land an $11M TPE that might come in handy....

I responded in agreement, suggesting that we could use the roster spot to re-sign Mathews.

We move a forward, gain a guard, get back a lot of the shooting Davis brought, increase our financial flexibility by a lot, & get younger.



I like this. Makes sense, seems like a good move.
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#88 » by mg » Thu Aug 26, 2021 2:05 pm

doclinkin wrote:
WallToWall wrote:
payitforward wrote:For sure he will have plenty of opportunities to shine.
I'm really interested to see how minutes are distributed & who winds up playing with whom at forward. Rui played 31.5 minutes per game last year. Bertans played over 25.5 minutes per game. For the moment, let's assume those minutes don't drop.
Kuzma logged almost 29 minutes a game for LA last year. His career average in 4 seasons is almost 30 minutes a game. If his minutes don't drop -- which is what one would expect, given that he is going from a better team to a worse team -- those 3 guys only leave about 10 minutes per game for anyone else at forward.
Presumably, KCP will back up Brad & probably also eat up those 10 minutes -- that should get him close to the 28 minutes a game he played for the Lakers last year.
Kind of leaves Deni the odd man out -- & no minutes for Kispert either.
It'll be extremely interesting to see how this works out! Seems kind of challenging to me....


This is a great problem to have. If a forward is not playing well, or just doesnt match up well, then he will get fewer minutes. I think the coach will play to the strengths of each forward and put each in the game at opportune times. I, for one, dont expect to have the same predictable starters, or minutes spread each game at the forward spots, like I would at SG or PG. Also, keep in mind that injuries will happen. This depth at forward is a good thing.


One thing I like about our depth is that we can form two pretty even teams to contest each other in practice, even starters vs back-ups. The depth is thin at guard, but everywhere else the coach can freely mix and match to see what wins and who is playing well with each other.



And to get a running start on the chemistry he can field two teams each with a core of guys who have played together:

-=EDIT=-

moved to line up thread.


Sounds good in theory but I imagine some of these guys are going to get a little disgruntled, for lack of another word, by the lack of playing time. Also a few of these players will be due for contract extensions in the near future and will be wanting minutes. It's a juggling act but I imagine a few frontcourt players will be dealt sometime between now and the deadline.
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#89 » by doclinkin » Thu Aug 26, 2021 2:56 pm

SUPERBALLMAN wrote:
Yeah, I think if anyone is the odd man out it's Bertans.

I see Rui and Kuzma starting together. KCP and Deni are the top guys off the bench. I'm thinking Wes Jr is going to value versatility and defense.

Bertans (and Kispert) should only see the floor when we need to inject some 3 point shooters into the offense. If we hit a stretch were guys are looking lifeless and legless, spacing is bad, shots aren't falling, turnovers are racking up.... Inject Bertans to jump start the offense. That should be his only role this season, other wise getting pt in situations of players out with illness, injury, fouls, rest, suspension, etc.

But if all cylinders are hitting Bertans should not get off the bench.


Maybe. But year after year Bertans is worth the most in terms of +/- over any other player. The team scores more efficiently when he is on the court. If you look at various charts of player 'gravity' Bertans affects the court more than any other player on the team year after year.

https://chart-studio.plotly.com/~anpatt7/43//#/

(the chart is a diagram of a basketball court. Notice the red spikes all around the perimeter for Davis. These are places where the defense was forced to load up chasing after that player. It easier to see if you mouse the chart up so you are looking at it from underneath).

Davis warps the floor to send the defense to the perimeter. When he is hitting 3pt shots, we win. Not because of the 3pt shots solely, but because opponents send their Bigs chasing after the 6'10" guy who is running guard patterns. And their guards have to help trap and mark him to slow him down. In a motion offense this is what you want: to steer the opponents to a weak arrangement so you can get open shots and high percentage shots. Bertans is the queen on a chess board, a danger from way across the board whose mobility (movement and quick release) forces you to track them from far away.

We added Dinwiddie to Bradley Beal. These are two players whose best damage has been done attacking the lanes and racking fouls on opponents, more so than their ranged shooting. Dinwiddie in particular has a suspect and streaky outside jumper. He will need room to operate on the interior. Similar to Westbrook, though he does use his team better to set himself up to penetrate. He is an excellent ballhandling guard for a motion offense. A good fit. It'd be nice if his standalone jumper was clean and pure, but we don't need it. Beal does have good gravity on the outside: if you leave him alone he will hit an open 3. You do have to mark him out there. If you do, he misses that shot. (By contrast to Bertans who hits shots both guarded and not because of his height and quick release). When you do chase Beal on the perimeter he is excellent at a quick change of direction to attack the lane. He hasn't gotten many open looks on the outside in recent years, but does stay in motion to work for them. It takes a solid team scheme to slow him down and make him take a less efficient shot. I suspect Wes will spring him free.

One of the ways to spring him free, and for him to be guarded by only one player, has been for teams to panic when Bertans heats up. As we saw against Wes' defense in Denver, Bertans hitting his career high 9 threes cleared the paint of almost all interior defenders. He forces teams to change their personnel to adjust. On offense he is a dangerous weapon. On defense, eh, yeah, but we still have managed a middling defense when he is on the court.

I'm the guy banging the draft threads looking for defensive standouts that can be stolen cheap, defense matters to me. But Bertans effect is undeniable. The numbers are there, he helps other players score more efficiently. Last year the only player that had a more pronounced +/- effect was Daniel Gafford. Gafford smooths out the problem that is Bertans and makes him more deadly by adding a mobile interior threat with aerial passing lanes.

Bertans is tough to draw line-ups for because he is a perimeter player who is sketched into a traditional frontcourt line-up, and his defense is not great either inside or outside. He is a smart team defender (which shows up in FIBA play though this team hasn't played great team defense) but has a high center of gravity and is not outstandingly athletic. If you play him, you need strong defenders behind him, since teams will switch to him on the perimeter. It would help to have good perimeter defenders elsewhere so the forced switch is predictable.

In Gafford, we picked up that strong defender as a mistake eraser. It is difficult to replicate with other players on the roster (though Kuzma looks like we get pretty close) but the synergy between Bertans and Gafford looks mighty. A line with DWiddie, Beal, Bertans, Gafford, and ANY perimeter defender who screens and passes well OR can hit a jumper (Kuzma, KCP, Rui when he is hitting 3's -- maybe Deni for the screener who passes) looks like you can dissect opposing teams with the outside inside threats.

Last year he was out of shape. COVID and lack of access to gyms and trainers. This year he is coming in off of National team qualifying play. He is a smart player who knows how to work in a motion offense. He eviscerated Wes' defense last year. I fully expect Unseld will find a use for him, early and as a go-to weapon in the offensive arsenal.
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#90 » by nate33 » Thu Aug 26, 2021 3:17 pm

doclinkin wrote:
SUPERBALLMAN wrote:
Yeah, I think if anyone is the odd man out it's Bertans.

I see Rui and Kuzma starting together. KCP and Deni are the top guys off the bench. I'm thinking Wes Jr is going to value versatility and defense.

Bertans (and Kispert) should only see the floor when we need to inject some 3 point shooters into the offense. If we hit a stretch were guys are looking lifeless and legless, spacing is bad, shots aren't falling, turnovers are racking up.... Inject Bertans to jump start the offense. That should be his only role this season, other wise getting pt in situations of players out with illness, injury, fouls, rest, suspension, etc.

But if all cylinders are hitting Bertans should not get off the bench.


Maybe. But year after year Bertans is worth the most in terms of +/- over any other player. The team scores more efficiently when he is on the court. If you look at various charts of player 'gravity' Bertans affects the court more than any other player on the team year after year.

https://chart-studio.plotly.com/~anpatt7/43//#/

(the chart is a diagram of a basketball court. Notice the red spikes all around the perimeter for Davis. These are places where the defense was forced to load up chasing after that player. It easier to see if you mouse the chart up so you are looking at it from underneath).

Davis warps the floor to send the defense to the perimeter. When he is hitting 3pt shots, we win. Not because of the 3pt shots solely, but because opponents send their Bigs chasing after the 6'10" guy who is running guard patterns. And their guards have to help trap and mark him to slow him down. In a motion offense this is what you want: to steer the opponents to a weak arrangement so you can get open shots and high percentage shots. Bertans is the queen on a chess board, a danger from way across the board whose mobility (movement and quick release) forces you to track them from far away.

We added Dinwiddie to Bradley Beal. These are two players whose best damage has been done attacking the lanes and racking fouls on opponents, more so than their ranged shooting. Dinwiddie in particular has a suspect and streaky outside jumper. He will need room to operate on the interior. Similar to Westbrook, though he does use his team better to set himself up to penetrate. He is an excellent ballhandling guard for a motion offense. A good fit. It'd be nice if his standalone jumper was clean and pure, but we don't need it. Beal does have good gravity on the outside: if you leave him alone he will hit an open 3. You do have to mark him out there. If you do, he misses that shot. (By contrast to Bertans who hits shots both guarded and not because of his height and quick release). When you do chase Beal on the perimeter he is excellent at a quick change of direction to attack the lane. He hasn't gotten many open looks on the outside in recent years, but does stay in motion to work for them. It takes a solid team scheme to slow him down and make him take a less efficient shot. I suspect Wes will spring him free.

One of the ways to spring him free, and for him to be guarded by only one player, has been for teams to panic when Bertans heats up. As we saw against Wes' defense in Denver, Bertans hitting his career high 9 threes cleared the paint of almost all interior defenders. He forces teams to change their personnel to adjust. On offense he is a dangerous weapon. On defense, eh, yeah, but we still have managed a middling defense when he is on the court.

I'm the guy banging the draft threads looking for defensive standouts that can be stolen cheap, defense matters to me. But Bertans effect is undeniable. The numbers are there, he helps other players score more efficiently. Last year the only player that had a more pronounced +/- effect was Daniel Gafford. Gafford smooths out the problem that is Bertans and makes him more deadly by adding a mobile interior threat with aerial passing lanes.

Bertans is tough to draw line-ups for because he is a perimeter player who is sketched into a traditional frontcourt line-up, and his defense is not great either inside or outside. He is a smart team defender (which shows up in FIBA play though this team hasn't played great team defense) but has a high center of gravity and is not outstandingly athletic. If you play him, you need strong defenders behind him, since teams will switch to him on the perimeter. It would help to have good perimeter defenders elsewhere so the forced switch is predictable.

In Gafford, we picked up that strong defender as a mistake eraser. It is difficult to replicate with other players on the roster (though Kuzma looks like we get pretty close) but the synergy between Bertans and Gafford looks mighty. A line with DWiddie, Beal, Bertans, Gafford, and ANY perimeter defender who screens and passes well OR can hit a jumper (Kuzma, KCP, Rui when he is hitting 3's -- maybe Deni for the screener who passes) looks like you can dissect opposing teams with the outside inside threats.

Last year he was out of shape. COVID and lack of access to gyms and trainers. This year he is coming in off of National team qualifying play. He is a smart player who knows how to work in a motion offense. He eviscerated Wes' defense last year. I fully expect Unseld will find a use for him, early and as a go-to weapon in the offensive arsenal.

Good stuff, Doc.

Bertans definitely helps the offense and I'd lean toward starting him while we have him. I really do like the idea of Bertans' elite perimeter gravity drawing the defense outside, while Gafford's near-elite verticality forces the defense to defend the lob threat. A defense straining so hard to contain both threats is going to have trouble sending the necessary help defense to slow down Beal and Dinwiddie. Rui (or Kuzma) fits in nicely as the 5th guy who guards the best wing on D, and exploits mismatches on O. If Rui can hit 36% of his 3's coupled with a bit more willingness to shoot them, the offense could be quite good.

But I do worry that Bertans' defensive deficiencies will make it hard for him to play in a 2nd round of a playoff game. He is a floor raiser, but probably not a ceiling raiser. That's fine for where this team is at right now, but in the long run, we can't afford to pay a guy $16M a year if we can't play him when it matters. I'd keep a constant eye out for an opportunity to trade him for value.
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#91 » by nate33 » Thu Aug 26, 2021 3:28 pm

Thinking this through some more, is not a Wizards starting 5 of Dinwiddie, Beal, Bertans, Rui, Gafford very similar to the starting 5 of the Utah Jazz?

Dinwiddie = Conley: a very good pick-and-roll PG with a 3-point shot just good enough that teams can't go under screens.
Beal = Mitchell: an All-Star SG who can create shots off the dribble or play off ball
Bertans = Boganovic/Ingles: a deadly shooter with underrated off-ball instincts
Rui = Royce O'Neal: a 4th/5th option on offense and designated defender.
Gafford = Gobert: an elite lob threat and offensive rebounder

Utah is better defensively thanks to Gobert and Conley being better than Gafford and Dinwiddie, but offensively, they could be quite close. And Utah's offense ranked 3rd in the NBA last season.
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#92 » by Frichuela » Thu Aug 26, 2021 5:01 pm

I agree that It makes sense to start Bartans next to Gafford in the regular season. Remember Dinwiddie was successful playing next to a 3 pt assassin (Harris) and a lob threat (Allen).

This should also increase his trade value come the trade deadline.

Holiday-KCP-Kuzma-Deni-Harrell is a nice bench unit, with Kuzma having a chance to be the alpha dog/6th man
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#93 » by doclinkin » Thu Aug 26, 2021 5:45 pm

Frichuela wrote:I agree that It makes sense to start Bartans next to Gafford in the regular season. Remember Dinwiddie was successful playing next to a 3 pt assassin (Harris) and a lob threat (Allen).

This should also increase his trade value come the trade deadline.

Holiday-KCP-Kuzma-Deni-Harrell is a nice bench unit, with Kuzma having a chance to be the alpha dog/6th man


Right, my line-up started Bertans, if he was hot you ride him longer, if not Kuzma is the first sub so you can approximate the same motion attack but add better defense.

I think with good schemes Rui and Kuzma and KCP (and Holiday) could defensively choke out some perimeter oriented teams. Tough to play them all together (you need more passing) but on offense/defense substitutions that looks interesting.
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#94 » by payitforward » Thu Aug 26, 2021 6:00 pm

This is fun -- good thinking, guys! It'll be interesting to see how Junior's thinking tracks this & where it heads in another direction.
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#95 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Thu Aug 26, 2021 6:14 pm

mg wrote:
doclinkin wrote:
WallToWall wrote:
This is a great problem to have. If a forward is not playing well, or just doesnt match up well, then he will get fewer minutes. I think the coach will play to the strengths of each forward and put each in the game at opportune times. I, for one, dont expect to have the same predictable starters, or minutes spread each game at the forward spots, like I would at SG or PG. Also, keep in mind that injuries will happen. This depth at forward is a good thing.


One thing I like about our depth is that we can form two pretty even teams to contest each other in practice, even starters vs back-ups. The depth is thin at guard, but everywhere else the coach can freely mix and match to see what wins and who is playing well with each other.



And to get a running start on the chemistry he can field two teams each with a core of guys who have played together:

-=EDIT=-

moved to line up thread.


Sounds good in theory but I imagine some of these guys are going to get a little disgruntled, for lack of another word, by the lack of playing time. Also a few of these players will be due for contract extensions in the near future and will be wanting minutes. It's a juggling act but I imagine a few frontcourt players will be dealt sometime between now and the deadline.


:nod:

They won't do this but here's a thought: The Truth

Take an anonymous survey. Who wants in and who does not. Try and accommodate people's wishes, same as they did with Westbrook.

Burner account message? Third party post card? Quinton Mayo type mouthpiece? Every player needs a proctor (if they're not really on board to speak out in person). YOU ALREADY KNOW WHICH PLAYERS ARE HAPPY with this change ... But SOME GUYS (Deni is one!) should IMO be at least skeptical if not spittin' hot fire mad.

The roster is going to produce some winners and losers...the key is for good communication, good faith, positivity, and good organizational development. IF A GUY IS NOT in the long term plans, do him solid and be straight up honest.
After the Wizards GM really went and did it by having an imaginative, strong, draft day. I totally feel this as well;

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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#96 » by Ruzious » Thu Aug 26, 2021 8:36 pm

payitforward wrote:Agreed. & nate suggested the following for Davis:
nate33 wrote:The Pelicans do have a $17M TPE. They definitely wouldn't include a 1st to acquire Bertans, but I'd do the trade if they gave us a 2nd. It would clear up a redundancy in the roster, free up playing time for Avdija, give us more luxtax flexibility to make a midseason move, and we'd land an $11M TPE that might come in handy....

I responded in agreement, suggesting that we could use the roster spot to re-sign Mathews.

We move a forward, gain a guard, get back a lot of the shooting Davis brought, increase our financial flexibility by a lot, & get younger.

Clear up redundant redundancies, so best to repeat it. :) The Pels probably don't do it, but it doesn't hurt to ask. Even better imo would be to find a trade that has us trade 2 or 3 players in exchange for a better player.
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#97 » by penbeast0 » Thu Aug 26, 2021 9:48 pm

nate33 wrote:Thinking this through some more, is not a Wizards starting 5 of Dinwiddie, Beal, Bertans, Rui, Gafford very similar to the starting 5 of the Utah Jazz?

Dinwiddie = Conley: a very good pick-and-roll PG with a 3-point shot just good enough that teams can't go under screens.
Beal = Mitchell: an All-Star SG who can create shots off the dribble or play off ball
Bertans = Boganovic/Ingles: a deadly shooter with underrated off-ball instincts
Rui = Royce O'Neal: a 4th/5th option on offense and designated defender.
Gafford = Gobert: an elite lob threat and offensive rebounder

Utah is better defensively thanks to Gobert and Conley being better than Gafford and Dinwiddie, but offensively, they could be quite close. And Utah's offense ranked 3rd in the NBA last season.


I'm a long way from being willing to say Gafford is comparable to Gobert even offensively. We hope so and he has potential but he hasn't proven anywhere near enough to make those comps.
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#98 » by doclinkin » Thu Aug 26, 2021 10:08 pm

nate33 wrote:Thinking this through some more, is not a Wizards starting 5 of Dinwiddie, Beal, Bertans, Rui, Gafford very similar to the starting 5 of the Utah Jazz?

Dinwiddie = Conley: a very good pick-and-roll PG with a 3-point shot just good enough that teams can't go under screens.
Beal = Mitchell: an All-Star SG who can create shots off the dribble or play off ball
Bertans = Boganovic/Ingles: a deadly shooter with underrated off-ball instincts
Rui = Royce O'Neal: a 4th/5th option on offense and designated defender.
Gafford = Gobert: an elite lob threat and offensive rebounder



Interesting I was thinking:

Hughes: 6'5" ball handling attack guard, more combo than point guard, no particularly great outside shot.
Arenas: 6'4" outside inside scorer, tops in the league in points scored, forces fouls on opponents by driving the interior. Conserves energy on defense because he works hard at the other end.
Jamison: tweener forward with long range, no defense
Jared Jeffies: tweener forward with an incomplete game, thought of as a defensive specialist
Haywood: defensive interior center with no particular range but outsized effect on team defense

:clown:
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#99 » by Endless Loop » Thu Aug 26, 2021 10:36 pm

I've just been reading Malcom Gladwells book, "David and Goliath". Here's a (bad) summary: even underdogs have advantages which, if they lean into them, can help them overachieve. Great book. The book talks a bit about basketball. It gives specific examples of how teams that had less talent used full court pressure to win big. One 12-year old girls' team with little talent went all the way to the national championship game.

Yeah, the NBA isn't girls' basketball. But the coach of that girls' team was Vivek Ranadive, who now is part owner of the Sacramento Kings.

And Dean Oliver worked for him in basketball operations.

Seems to me that if a team has depth like the Wizards, but doesn't have those three "necessary" superstars, then they should play with a bunch of pace, and do a lot of substitutions. Opposing stars will have trouble maintaining high minutes, especially since most of them aren't exactly young, and many have dealt with major injuries (like all of the Nets' stars!). The Wizards will win the bench matchups, and the bench matchups will become more significant.
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#100 » by SUPERBALLMAN » Thu Aug 26, 2021 11:45 pm

doclinkin wrote:
nate33 wrote:Thinking this through some more, is not a Wizards starting 5 of Dinwiddie, Beal, Bertans, Rui, Gafford very similar to the starting 5 of the Utah Jazz?

Dinwiddie = Conley: a very good pick-and-roll PG with a 3-point shot just good enough that teams can't go under screens.
Beal = Mitchell: an All-Star SG who can create shots off the dribble or play off ball
Bertans = Boganovic/Ingles: a deadly shooter with underrated off-ball instincts
Rui = Royce O'Neal: a 4th/5th option on offense and designated defender.
Gafford = Gobert: an elite lob threat and offensive rebounder



Interesting I was thinking:

Hughes: 6'5" ball handling attack guard, more combo than point guard, no particularly great inside shot.
Arenas: 6'4" outside inside scorer, tops in the league in points scored, forces fouls on opponents by driving the interior. COnserves energy on defense because he works hard at the other end.
Jamison: tweener forward with long range, no defense
Jared Jeffies: tweener forward with an incomplete game, thought of as a defensive specialist
Haywood: defensive interior center with no particular range but outsized effect on team defense

:clown:




LOL! :lol:

This is great!!!
:lol:
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