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Wizards Board COVID-19 Thread

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Re: Wizards Board COVID-19 Thread 

Post#641 » by dckingsfan » Fri Jan 14, 2022 9:45 pm

Wisconsin Monthly Data for December released today.

CHR Vaxxed: 1.18%
CHR Unvaxxed: 3.72%

CFR Vaxxed: 0.23%
CFR Unvaxxed: 1.07%

People not fully vaccinated were hospitalized with COVID-19 at a rate 10x higher than people who were fully vaccinated.
People not fully vaccinated died from COVID-19 at a rate 14x higher than people who were fully vaccinated.


https://www.dhs.wisconsin.gov/covid-19/vaccine-status.htm
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Re: Wizards Board COVID-19 Thread 

Post#642 » by nate33 » Sun Jan 16, 2022 4:00 pm

Covid Scotland: Case rates lowest in unvaccinated as double-jabbed elderly drive rise in hospital admissions

DOUBLE-JABBED Scots are now more likely to be admitted to hospital with Covid than the unvaccinated amid an increase in elderly people falling ill due to waning immunity. It comes amid "weird" data showing that case rates have been lower in unvaccinated individuals than the single, double, or even triple-jabbed since Omicron became the dominant variant in Scotland. The counterintuitive data from Public Health Scotland (PHS) contradicts previous pandemic trends which have consistently shown infection, hospitalisation and death rates to be highest among the unvaccinated.


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https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/19843315.covid-scotland-case-rates-lowest-unvaccinated-double-jabbed-elderly-drive-rise-hospital-admissions/

link to get around paywall:
https://archive.fo/TIg8L#selection-1299.0-1299.108
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Re: Wizards Board COVID-19 Thread 

Post#644 » by nate33 » Sun Jan 16, 2022 7:00 pm

dckingsfan wrote:https://theparadise.ng/fact-check-covid-19-vaccines-are-no-longer-effective-as-infection-rates-are-lowest-among-the-unvaccinated-in-scotland/

That "fact check" is an exercise in obfuscation that does nothing to refute my point. The numbers are the numbers. The unvaccinated are being hospitalized much less often than the 2-dose vaccinated, and these are "age adjusted" numbers, so that accounts for the fact that the unvaccinated are most likely to be younger.

The only real refutation cited is the fact check is an assertion that the triple-vaccinated still have a much lower death rate than the unvaccinated. This is true. But I wasn't comparing the unvaccinated to the triple-vaxed, I was comparing them to the double-vaxed, and the double-vaxed have an ASMR of 7.06, which is almost twice as high as the unvaccinated.

A third dose does provide some protection, but we will see how long it lasts. The UK data says that a booster just 5 weeks old is already down to just 55% protective of symptomatic infection.
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Re: Wizards Board COVID-19 Thread 

Post#645 » by Kanyewest » Sun Jan 16, 2022 7:00 pm

Daily admissions to hospitals still seem to be higher among unvaccinated in the United States

Image
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https://time.com/6138566/pandemic-of-unvaccinated/

I wonder if any other behavioral factors come into play (mask wearing, willingness to go out) although I believe infections numbers among vaccinated and unvaccinated were similar.
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Re: Wizards Board COVID-19 Thread 

Post#646 » by dckingsfan » Sun Jan 16, 2022 7:03 pm

nate33 wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:https://theparadise.ng/fact-check-covid-19-vaccines-are-no-longer-effective-as-infection-rates-are-lowest-among-the-unvaccinated-in-scotland/

That "fact check" is an exercise in obfuscation that does nothing to refute my point. The numbers are the numbers. The unvaccinated are being hospitalized much less often than the 2-dose vaccinated, and these are "age adjusted" numbers, so that accounts for the fact that the unvaccinated are most likely to be younger.

The only real refutation cited is the fact check is an assertion that the triple-vaccinated still have a much lower death rate than the unvaccinated. This is true. But I wasn't comparing the unvaccinated to the triple-vaxed, I was comparing them to the double-vaxed, and the double-vaxed have an ASMR of 7.06, which is almost twice as high as the unvaccinated.

A third dose does provide some protection, but we will see how long it lasts. The UK data says that a booster just 5 weeks old is already down to just 55% protective of symptomatic infection.

Eh... let's see how well this ages -- especially here in the US.
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Re: Wizards Board COVID-19 Thread 

Post#647 » by nate33 » Sun Jan 16, 2022 7:07 pm

Kanyewest wrote:Daily admissions to hospitals still seem to be higher among unvaccinated in the United States

Image
Image

https://time.com/6138566/pandemic-of-unvaccinated/

I wonder if any other behavioral factors come into play (mask wearing) although I believe infections numbers among vaccinated and unvaccinated were similar.

At this point, I don't really trust any United States sources of information. They have no standards on the distinction between hospitalized "with Covid" or "due to Covid". Not to mention that they have a patchwork records database with different reporting mechanisms. Finally, they've demonstrated that they are willing to lie to maintain that "vaccinate at all costs" agenda so I have no reason to believe them going forward.

I'd much rather go with the numbers from other Western nations with a national health care system and a uniform system of records. Israel, UK, Scotland and Denmark have much better data.
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Re: Wizards Board COVID-19 Thread 

Post#648 » by Kanyewest » Sun Jan 16, 2022 7:15 pm

nate33 wrote:
Kanyewest wrote:Daily admissions to hospitals still seem to be higher among unvaccinated in the United States

Image
Image

https://time.com/6138566/pandemic-of-unvaccinated/

I wonder if any other behavioral factors come into play (mask wearing) although I believe infections numbers among vaccinated and unvaccinated were similar.

At this point, I don't really trust any United States sources of information. They have no standards on the distinction between hospitalized "with Covid" or "due to Covid". Not to mention that they have a patchwork records database with different reporting mechanisms. Finally, they've demonstrated that they are willing to lie to maintain that "vaccinate at all costs" agenda so I have no reason to believe them going forward.

I'd much rather go with the numbers from other Western nations with a national health care system and a uniform system of records. Israel, UK, Scotland and Denmark have much better data.


For now the data appears to be using the data from various state websites such as this one from New York.

https://coronavirus.health.ny.gov/covid-19-breakthrough-data

You are right though that not all data appears to be included - like Texas - which hasn't made its data readily available (or Time failed to use it in its findings). Still- not sure we can completely ignore the data given by health department website which this article cites
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Re: Wizards Board COVID-19 Thread 

Post#649 » by DCZards » Sun Jan 16, 2022 7:26 pm

nate33 wrote:At this point, I don't really trust any United States sources of information. They have no standards on the distinction between hospitalized "with Covid" or "due to Covid". Not to mention that they have a patchwork records database with different reporting mechanisms. Finally, they've demonstrated that they are willing to lie to maintain that "vaccinate at all costs" agenda so I have no reason to believe them going forward.

I'd much rather go with the numbers from other Western nations with a national health care system and a uniform system of records. Israel, UK, Scotland and Denmark have much better data.

That's kinda typical behavior: Dismiss and call untrustworthy the data that doesn't align with your opinion or worldview and embrace and put on a pedestal the data that does.
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Re: Wizards Board COVID-19 Thread 

Post#650 » by nate33 » Sun Jan 16, 2022 9:14 pm

DCZards wrote:
nate33 wrote:At this point, I don't really trust any United States sources of information. They have no standards on the distinction between hospitalized "with Covid" or "due to Covid". Not to mention that they have a patchwork records database with different reporting mechanisms. Finally, they've demonstrated that they are willing to lie to maintain that "vaccinate at all costs" agenda so I have no reason to believe them going forward.

I'd much rather go with the numbers from other Western nations with a national health care system and a uniform system of records. Israel, UK, Scotland and Denmark have much better data.

That's kinda typical behavior: Dismiss and call untrustworthy the data that doesn't align with your opinion or worldview and embrace and put on a pedestal the data that does.

Excuse me for applying a little healthy skepticism to numbers that clearly don't make sense.

If vaccines were as effective against Omicron as the New York data suggests, how in the world can you explain this?

Image

When I see two conflicting sources of data, one from New York which is totally contrary to the infection trends that currently exist; and the other from the UK and Scotland which easily explain the infection trends that we see today, I'm going to side with the UK/Scotland data.
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Re: Wizards Board COVID-19 Thread 

Post#651 » by Kanyewest » Mon Jan 17, 2022 12:33 am

nate33 wrote:
DCZards wrote:
nate33 wrote:At this point, I don't really trust any United States sources of information. They have no standards on the distinction between hospitalized "with Covid" or "due to Covid". Not to mention that they have a patchwork records database with different reporting mechanisms. Finally, they've demonstrated that they are willing to lie to maintain that "vaccinate at all costs" agenda so I have no reason to believe them going forward.

I'd much rather go with the numbers from other Western nations with a national health care system and a uniform system of records. Israel, UK, Scotland and Denmark have much better data.

That's kinda typical behavior: Dismiss and call untrustworthy the data that doesn't align with your opinion or worldview and embrace and put on a pedestal the data that does.

Excuse me for applying a little healthy skepticism to numbers that clearly don't make sense.

If vaccines were as effective against Omicron as the New York data suggests, how in the world can you explain this?

Image

When I see two conflicting sources of data, one from New York which is totally contrary to the infection trends that currently exist; and the other from the UK and Scotland which easily explain the infection trends that we see today, I'm going to side with the UK/Scotland data.


It looks like vaccines (1+2) does a poor job preventing infection against delta/omnicron. However, the data from the New York department doesn't contradict that infections are high among vaccinated- just that the severity is lower among vaccinated people.

It also is important to look at state data given how much more specific it is then just looking at the general United State population given the different vaccination rates between states.
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Re: Wizards Board COVID-19 Thread 

Post#652 » by Dat2U » Yesterday 12:24 am

DCZards wrote:
nate33 wrote:At this point, I don't really trust any United States sources of information. They have no standards on the distinction between hospitalized "with Covid" or "due to Covid". Not to mention that they have a patchwork records database with different reporting mechanisms. Finally, they've demonstrated that they are willing to lie to maintain that "vaccinate at all costs" agenda so I have no reason to believe them going forward.

I'd much rather go with the numbers from other Western nations with a national health care system and a uniform system of records. Israel, UK, Scotland and Denmark have much better data.

That's kinda typical behavior: Dismiss and call untrustworthy the data that doesn't align with your opinion or worldview and embrace and put on a pedestal the data that does.


Nate has a right to be skeptical. CDC categorizes you as "unvaccinated" unless its 2 weeks after the "final innoculation" or whatever that means. The data they put out is a misrepresenation of reality and not reliable.
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Re: Wizards Board COVID-19 Thread 

Post#653 » by Kanyewest » Yesterday 1:45 am

Dat2U wrote:
DCZards wrote:
nate33 wrote:At this point, I don't really trust any United States sources of information. They have no standards on the distinction between hospitalized "with Covid" or "due to Covid". Not to mention that they have a patchwork records database with different reporting mechanisms. Finally, they've demonstrated that they are willing to lie to maintain that "vaccinate at all costs" agenda so I have no reason to believe them going forward.

I'd much rather go with the numbers from other Western nations with a national health care system and a uniform system of records. Israel, UK, Scotland and Denmark have much better data.

That's kinda typical behavior: Dismiss and call untrustworthy the data that doesn't align with your opinion or worldview and embrace and put on a pedestal the data that does.


Nate has a right to be skeptical. CDC categorizes you as "unvaccinated" unless its 2 weeks after the "final innoculation" or whatever that means. The data they put out is a misrepresenation of reality and not reliable.


That's because Pfizer/Moderna/J&J themselves only consider a person vaccinated after 2 weeks after the 1st vaccination. That's how long it takes the antibodies to develop. Also the CDC differentiates between people who get 1 shot and those who get 2 shots. Note, there is no difference in worldwide data (ie from Canada) as Nate pointed out.

And the figure Nate cites represents an estimate of 100-200 deaths (just looking at the graph) out 3100 in Alberta Canada which represents 3-5 percent of all deaths- still showing that unvaccinated deaths are significantly higher.
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Re: Wizards Board COVID-19 Thread 

Post#654 » by Kanyewest » Yesterday 4:49 am

Perhaps the most common point of conflict concerning COVID-19 vaccines is the risk of myocarditis following immunization, particularly among young people.

What do the numbers tell us about COVID-19, vaccines and myocarditis?

...

Before COVID-19 the incidence of myocarditis was between one and 10 cases per 100,000 people per year. Rates are highest in males between 18 and 30 years old. Interestingly, most cases of myocarditis in the highest risk group are in otherwise healthy and active people.

According to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the risk of myocarditis after infection with COVID-19 is much higher, at 146 cases per 100,000. The risk is higher for males, older adults (ages 50+) and children under 16 years old. Soccer player Alphonso Davies, 21, of Canada’s national men’s team, was sidelined by heart inflammation after having COVID-19.

Myocarditis following COVID-19 vaccination is rare and the risk is much smaller than the risks of cardiac injury linked to COVID-19 itself.

Based on a study out of Israel, the risk of post-vaccine myocarditis is 2.13 cases per 100,000 vaccinated, which is within the range usually seen in the general population. This study is consistent with others in the United States and Israel which put the overall incidence of post-vaccine myocarditis between 0.3 and five cases per 100,000 people.


https://theconversation.com/myocarditis-covid-19-is-a-much-bigger-risk-to-the-heart-than-vaccination-174580
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Re: Wizards Board COVID-19 Thread 

Post#655 » by Zonkerbl » Yesterday 12:02 pm

nate33 wrote:
Kanyewest wrote:Daily admissions to hospitals still seem to be higher among unvaccinated in the United States

Image
Image

https://time.com/6138566/pandemic-of-unvaccinated/

I wonder if any other behavioral factors come into play (mask wearing) although I believe infections numbers among vaccinated and unvaccinated were similar.

At this point, I don't really trust any United States sources of information. They have no standards on the distinction between hospitalized "with Covid" or "due to Covid". Not to mention that they have a patchwork records database with different reporting mechanisms. Finally, they've demonstrated that they are willing to lie to maintain that "vaccinate at all costs" agenda so I have no reason to believe them going forward.

I'd much rather go with the numbers from other Western nations with a national health care system and a uniform system of records. Israel, UK, Scotland and Denmark have much better data.


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Re: Wizards Board COVID-19 Thread 

Post#656 » by Ruzious » Yesterday 1:08 pm

Kanyewest wrote:
Dat2U wrote:
DCZards wrote:That's kinda typical behavior: Dismiss and call untrustworthy the data that doesn't align with your opinion or worldview and embrace and put on a pedestal the data that does.


Nate has a right to be skeptical. CDC categorizes you as "unvaccinated" unless its 2 weeks after the "final innoculation" or whatever that means. The data they put out is a misrepresenation of reality and not reliable.


That's because Pfizer/Moderna/J&J themselves only consider a person vaccinated after 2 weeks after the 1st vaccination. That's how long it takes the antibodies to develop. Also the CDC differentiates between people who get 1 shot and those who get 2 shots. Note, there is no difference in worldwide data (ie from Canada) as Nate pointed out.

And the figure Nate cites represents an estimate of 100-200 deaths (just looking at the graph) out 3100 in Alberta Canada which represents 3-5 percent of all deaths- still showing that unvaccinated deaths are significantly higher.

Yeah, it takes 2 weeks for the vaccines to kick in - which is normal for most vaccines.

What's sad (to use the nicest word I can think of) about people... basing their views on scientific issues on their political party.
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Re: Wizards Board COVID-19 Thread 

Post#657 » by nate33 » Yesterday 2:00 pm

Zonkerbl wrote:
nate33 wrote:
Kanyewest wrote:Daily admissions to hospitals still seem to be higher among unvaccinated in the United States

Image
Image

https://time.com/6138566/pandemic-of-unvaccinated/

I wonder if any other behavioral factors come into play (mask wearing) although I believe infections numbers among vaccinated and unvaccinated were similar.

At this point, I don't really trust any United States sources of information. They have no standards on the distinction between hospitalized "with Covid" or "due to Covid". Not to mention that they have a patchwork records database with different reporting mechanisms. Finally, they've demonstrated that they are willing to lie to maintain that "vaccinate at all costs" agenda so I have no reason to believe them going forward.

I'd much rather go with the numbers from other Western nations with a national health care system and a uniform system of records. Israel, UK, Scotland and Denmark have much better data.


Yes! Socialized medicine! Medicare for all!

I was actually starting to shift leftward on this issue until all the recent talk of a social credit system and the notion that if you are not vaccinated, you get to the back of the line when it comes to hospitalization. It made it crystal clear the level of tyranny a government can impose if they have a monopoly on health care.

Do what we say or no health care for you!

I'm afraid I no longer have enough trust in our institutions to agree to give them anywhere near that level of control.
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Re: Wizards Board COVID-19 Thread 

Post#658 » by Dat2U » Yesterday 2:32 pm

Ruzious wrote:
What's sad (to use the nicest word I can think of) about people... basing their views on scientific issues on their political party.


Now go back to when Trump was President and see what dems were saying about the vaccine then.
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Re: Wizards Board COVID-19 Thread 

Post#659 » by nate33 » Yesterday 2:34 pm

Kanyewest wrote:
Dat2U wrote:Nate has a right to be skeptical. CDC categorizes you as "unvaccinated" unless its 2 weeks after the "final innoculation" or whatever that means. The data they put out is a misrepresenation of reality and not reliable.

That's because Pfizer/Moderna/J&J themselves only consider a person vaccinated after 2 weeks after the 1st vaccination. That's how long it takes the antibodies to develop.

Yes, but it conveniently obscures the fact that during those 2 weeks, your immunity is actually suppressed, making you more vulnerable than you were prior to the injection. And any infections during those two weeks are "charged" to the "unvaccinated" column.

Kanyewest wrote:Also the CDC differentiates between people who get 1 shot and those who get 2 shots. Note, there is no difference in worldwide data (ie from Canada) as Nate pointed out.

?

There is a big difference in data. Canada, UK, Denmark, Scotland all show a MUCH higher infection rate among the two-dose vaccinated, but somehow New York shows a much higher infection rate among the unvaccinated. For example, the Alberta stats I posted on the last page show that the two-dose vaccinated are having a much higher per capital infection rate than the unvaccinated, while the New York data shows the completely opposite trend. Not just opposite of Alberta, but opposite of just about every nation in Western Europe right now:

Image

Image

This New York data makes absolutely no sense in a world where the vast majority are vaccinated yet case rates are at record highs. They are clearly lying.

Kanyewest wrote:And the figure Nate cites represents an estimate of 100-200 deaths (just looking at the graph) out 3100 in Alberta Canada which represents 3-5 percent of all deaths- still showing that unvaccinated deaths are significantly higher.

Yes, but those 3100 deaths are over two full years. The post-injection deaths are in just two weeks. So in the 100 or so total weeks that the people of Alberta were exposed to Covid, they suffered 3100 Covid-related deaths - or about 31 deaths a week. But during the two week period after their first vaccination, they cumulatively suffered 200 Covid-related deaths, or 100 deaths per week. Covid deaths during the two weeks following vaccination were 3 times higher than the baseline Covid death rate!

Guys, this is important stuff. Look at it carefully and tell me where I'm wrong if you think I am. Don't just dismiss it because you are labeling me an anti-vaxxer. There is downside to the vaccines. They are not perfectly safe as the CDC keeps insisting. On balance, they are a benefit to older people and people with preconditions, but the risk reward calculation is far less clear for healthy, younger people and for people who already have natural immunity.

(It's also worth noting that Alberta took that 1st dose death rate data off their website after it made its rounds around social media. They are just giving us the data they want us to have.)
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Re: Wizards Board COVID-19 Thread 

Post#660 » by dckingsfan » Yesterday 2:35 pm

Zonkerbl wrote:
nate33 wrote:
Kanyewest wrote:Daily admissions to hospitals still seem to be higher among unvaccinated in the United States

Image
Image

https://time.com/6138566/pandemic-of-unvaccinated/

I wonder if any other behavioral factors come into play (mask wearing) although I believe infections numbers among vaccinated and unvaccinated were similar.

At this point, I don't really trust any United States sources of information. They have no standards on the distinction between hospitalized "with Covid" or "due to Covid". Not to mention that they have a patchwork records database with different reporting mechanisms. Finally, they've demonstrated that they are willing to lie to maintain that "vaccinate at all costs" agenda so I have no reason to believe them going forward.

I'd much rather go with the numbers from other Western nations with a national health care system and a uniform system of records. Israel, UK, Scotland and Denmark have much better data.


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