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Wizards Board COVID-19 Thread

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Re: Wizards Board COVID-19 Thread 

Post#141 » by DCZards » Sun Aug 22, 2021 2:42 pm

From day one, Trump turned what should have been a public health issue into a political issue. He downplayed the threat, he sidelined the doctors and scientists, he refused to set an example by wearing a mask and mocked those who did, he didn’t require social distancing or masks at his rallies, etc.

Now he’s finally telling his minions to take the virus seriously and do the right thing by getting vaccinated. It’s too freaking late. You can’t put the genie back into the bottle.

Yes, the Trump administration deserves credit for operation warp speed and the rapid development of the vaccine. But I’m sure it was the docs and scientists who led that charge. After all, Trump thought ingesting disinfectant and Clorox would solve the problem.

Our country is paying a terrible price for allowing a clown and buffoon to occupy the White House for four years.
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Re: Wizards Board COVID-19 Thread 

Post#142 » by tontoz » Mon Aug 23, 2021 6:01 pm

Group of South Florida doctors stage walkout in protest of unvaccinated COVID patients

A group of around 75 South Florida doctors staged a walkout on Monday to protest the number of unvaccinated COVID-19 patients flooding their hospital in Palm Beach Gardens, Florida, MSNBC's Morning Joe reports.

The frustrated doctors want people to "ignore the nonsense and the absurdities that you're hearing people say at public meetings and recognize the value of what a vaccine will do," said Kerry Sanders, reporting on the ground in Florida. He added that 85 percent of the ICU beds in the state are full.

The walkout comes as COVID continues to decimate the Gulf Coast, which has "relatively low rates of vaccination and often lax safety measures," The New York Times reports. Florida in particular now leads the nation in daily average cases and hospitalizations, per the Times. In the week beginning August 14, for instance, at least five South Florida police officers died after contracting the virus, writes CNN.

Brigid Kennedy, Contributing Writer
Mon, August 23, 2021, 8:34 AM
A group of around 75 South Florida doctors staged a walkout on Monday to protest the number of unvaccinated COVID-19 patients flooding their hospital in Palm Beach Gardens, Florida, MSNBC's Morning Joe reports.

The frustrated doctors want people to "ignore the nonsense and the absurdities that you're hearing people say at public meetings and recognize the value of what a vaccine will do," said Kerry Sanders, reporting on the ground in Florida. He added that 85 percent of the ICU beds in the state are full.

The walkout comes as COVID continues to decimate the Gulf Coast, which has "relatively low rates of vaccination and often lax safety measures," The New York Times reports. Florida in particular now leads the nation in daily average cases and hospitalizations, per the Times. In the week beginning August 14, for instance, at least five South Florida police officers died after contracting the virus, writes CNN.

"It's incredibly frustrating because we know vaccines are safe and effective," said Dr. JT Snarksi, one of Monday's protesting physicians. "And it's people who go out and talk against them that really go against physicians and medicine and science." She added, "It's not the message we want to get across to people. Vaccines are safe and we need to get our communities vaccinated."

On Monday, the FDA granted full approval to the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine, an important step that officials hope will instill more confidence among those reluctant to get vaccinated.




https://www.yahoo.com/news/group-south-florida-doctors-stage-153410458.html
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Re: Wizards Board COVID-19 Thread 

Post#143 » by Kanyewest » Mon Aug 23, 2021 6:07 pm

tontoz wrote:
Group of South Florida doctors stage walkout in protest of unvaccinated COVID patients

A group of around 75 South Florida doctors staged a walkout on Monday to protest the number of unvaccinated COVID-19 patients flooding their hospital in Palm Beach Gardens, Florida, MSNBC's Morning Joe reports.

The frustrated doctors want people to "ignore the nonsense and the absurdities that you're hearing people say at public meetings and recognize the value of what a vaccine will do," said Kerry Sanders, reporting on the ground in Florida. He added that 85 percent of the ICU beds in the state are full.

The walkout comes as COVID continues to decimate the Gulf Coast, which has "relatively low rates of vaccination and often lax safety measures," The New York Times reports. Florida in particular now leads the nation in daily average cases and hospitalizations, per the Times. In the week beginning August 14, for instance, at least five South Florida police officers died after contracting the virus, writes CNN.

Brigid Kennedy, Contributing Writer
Mon, August 23, 2021, 8:34 AM
A group of around 75 South Florida doctors staged a walkout on Monday to protest the number of unvaccinated COVID-19 patients flooding their hospital in Palm Beach Gardens, Florida, MSNBC's Morning Joe reports.

The frustrated doctors want people to "ignore the nonsense and the absurdities that you're hearing people say at public meetings and recognize the value of what a vaccine will do," said Kerry Sanders, reporting on the ground in Florida. He added that 85 percent of the ICU beds in the state are full.

The walkout comes as COVID continues to decimate the Gulf Coast, which has "relatively low rates of vaccination and often lax safety measures," The New York Times reports. Florida in particular now leads the nation in daily average cases and hospitalizations, per the Times. In the week beginning August 14, for instance, at least five South Florida police officers died after contracting the virus, writes CNN.

"It's incredibly frustrating because we know vaccines are safe and effective," said Dr. JT Snarksi, one of Monday's protesting physicians. "And it's people who go out and talk against them that really go against physicians and medicine and science." She added, "It's not the message we want to get across to people. Vaccines are safe and we need to get our communities vaccinated."

On Monday, the FDA granted full approval to the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine, an important step that officials hope will instill more confidence among those reluctant to get vaccinated.




https://www.yahoo.com/news/group-south-florida-doctors-stage-153410458.html


I guess the doctors are exercising their freedom :)
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Re: Wizards Board COVID-19 Thread 

Post#144 » by Kanyewest » Tue Aug 24, 2021 12:33 am

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Re: Wizards Board COVID-19 Thread 

Post#145 » by FAH1223 » Tue Aug 24, 2021 5:14 pm

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Re: Wizards Board COVID-19 Thread 

Post#146 » by tontoz » Fri Aug 27, 2021 5:36 pm

FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. (AP) — School districts in Florida may impose mask mandates, a judge said Friday, ruling that Gov. Ron DeSantis overstepped his authority by issuing an executive order banning the mandates.

Leon County Circuit Judge John C. Cooper agreed with a group of parents who claimed in a lawsuit that DeSantis' order is unconstitutional and cannot be enforced. The governor's order gave parents the sole right to decide if their child wears a mask at school.


https://www.yahoo.com/news/judge-blocks-florida-governor-order-162130613.html
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Re: Wizards Board COVID-19 Thread 

Post#147 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Fri Aug 27, 2021 6:44 pm

I'm supposed to be on a movie set right now. Unfortunately, a key grip came up covid positive and they had to shut down production.

I was just supposed to be a background extra but I enjoy those kinds of things
After the Wizards GM really went and did it by having an imaginative, strong, draft day. I totally feel this as well;

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Re: Wizards Board COVID-19 Thread 

Post#148 » by tontoz » Fri Aug 27, 2021 8:44 pm

U.S. vet denied ICU bed due to COVID crisis dies of treatable illness

When U.S. Army veteran Daniel Wilkinson started feeling sick last week, he went to the hospital in Bellville, Texas, outside Houston. His health problem wasn't related to COVID-19, but Wilkinson needed advanced care, and with the coronavirus filling up intensive care beds, he couldn't get it in time to save his life.

"He loved his country," his mother, Michelle Puget, told "CBS This Morning" lead national correspondent David Begnaud. "He served two deployments in Afghanistan, came home with a Purple Heart, and it was a gallstone that took him out."



https://www.yahoo.com/news/u-vet-denied-icu-bed-165528672.html
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Re: Wizards Board COVID-19 Thread 

Post#149 » by tontoz » Sun Aug 29, 2021 2:30 pm

. A man from Texas who organized protests against COVID-19 safety measures has died of the virus after spending nearly a month in hospital.

Caleb Wallace's death was confirmed by his wife Jessica on a GoFundMe page that she had created to raise funds for medical and household bills.

"Caleb has peacefully passed on. He will forever live in our hearts and minds," she wrote.

The 30-year-old father of three helped organize rallies last year to protest against pandemic safety measures, including lockdowns, masks, and vaccinations, which he called "COVID tyranny."



https://news.yahoo.com/texas-man-protested-against-pandemic-104103340.html
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Re: Wizards Board COVID-19 Thread 

Post#150 » by queridiculo » Sun Aug 29, 2021 8:02 pm

tontoz wrote:
. A man from Texas who organized protests against COVID-19 safety measures has died of the virus after spending nearly a month in hospital.

Caleb Wallace's death was confirmed by his wife Jessica on a GoFundMe page that she had created to raise funds for medical and household bills.

"Caleb has peacefully passed on. He will forever live in our hearts and minds," she wrote.

The 30-year-old father of three helped organize rallies last year to protest against pandemic safety measures, including lockdowns, masks, and vaccinations, which he called "COVID tyranny."



https://news.yahoo.com/texas-man-protested-against-pandemic-104103340.html


Some nerve to fundraise on this.

Bootstrap yoself.

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Re: Wizards Board COVID-19 Thread 

Post#151 » by tontoz » Tue Aug 31, 2021 3:06 pm

Report: Patriots release Cam Newton, name Mac Jones starting QB
Quarterback Cam Newton's time with the New England Patriots appears to be at an end.

In a surprising turn of events, the Patriots have reportedly released Newton ahead of Tuesday's 4 p.m. ET roster cut deadline.

The #Patriots have released Cam Newton, source said.


Anti Vaxxer Cam lost his job....but he still has his freedom. :lol:

Of all the teams to be anti vax the Patriots has to be the worst. Bill isn't going to put up with that nonsense, especially from a QB.
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Re: Wizards Board COVID-19 Thread 

Post#152 » by pcbothwel » Tue Aug 31, 2021 3:21 pm

What is with this boards obsession with COVID and the "vaccine"? The jab is simply a therapeutic, not a vaccine. It doesnt keep you from getting it, nor does it stop you from spreading it. So mandating it is pure politics, not based on science.

You want to argue the benefits of getting the vaccine vs not? Sure, sounds like sound fodder and perfectly reasonable.
But I have not heard one sound argument as to why/how anyone benefits by forcing OTHERS to take an experimental therapeutic. Just odd behavior, let alone the gloating and snarky comments about those who are unvaccinated who die.

Enjoy the claps of your likeminded twitter friends who laugh at your "Muh Freedom" jokes, because it sounds like many of you have a deeper unhappiness and insecurity in your life that has nothing to do with politics or the "vaccine".
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Re: Wizards Board COVID-19 Thread 

Post#153 » by tontoz » Tue Aug 31, 2021 3:35 pm

pcbothwel wrote:What is with this boards obsession with COVID and the "vaccine"? The jab is simply a therapeutic, not a vaccine. It doesnt keep you from getting it, nor does it stop you from spreading it. So mandating it is pure politics, not based on science.

You want to argue the benefits of getting the vaccine vs not? Sure, sounds like sound fodder and perfectly reasonable.
But I have not heard one sound argument as to why/how anyone benefits by forcing OTHERS to take an experimental therapeutic. Just odd behavior, let alone the gloating and snarky comments about those who are unvaccinated who die.

Enjoy the claps of your likeminded twitter friends who laugh at your "Muh Freedom" jokes, because it sounds like many of you have a deeper unhappiness and insecurity in your life that has nothing to do with politics or the "vaccine".



The vaccine clearly helps in preventing hospitalization and death. The ICUs are filled with the unvaccinated. Conservative anti vax nuts are dying from Covid. It also makes it less likely to transmit the disease.

People with other medical issues arent able to get ICU beds because they are filled with unvaccinated Covid patients. Doctors in Florida walked out protesting all of the unvaccinated Covid patients.

3rd conservative radio host who condemned vaccines dies of Covid
Marc Bernier was a mainstay on talk radio in Daytona.

A conservative Florida radio host who spoke out against Covid-19 vaccines died after a weekslong fight with the virus, marking the third radio personality to die from coronavirus who publicly rejected vaccines.

The death of Marc Bernier, 65, who was a mainstay on talk radio in Daytona Beach, was announced Saturday night by WNDB, the radio station he was affiliated with for three decades.



On Aug. 4, another Florida conservative radio host who had criticized the coronavirus vaccine, Dick Farrel, died from Covid-19 complications. Farrel, whose given name was Farrel Austin Levitt, had worked at several radio stations in Florida, including WIOD in Miami and WPBR in Palm Beach, and had served as a fill-in anchor on Newsmax.

He had strongly condemned the coronavirus vaccine, posting on Facebook on July 3, “why take a vax promoted by people who lied 2u all along about masks, where the virus came from and the death toll?” He also criticized Anthony Fauci, the nation’s top infection disease doctor, calling him a “power tripping lying freak,” according to The Washington Post, which reported on his death.


Last week, Phil Valentine, a 62-year-old conservative radio host in Nashville, Tenn., who had questioned the necessity of vaccines, also died from the virus. Valentine, the son of former six-term Rep. Tim Valentine (D-N.C.), had a nationally syndicated show.

“The people who instinctively believe that the government is the solution to everything are already talking vaccination mandates. This should be a personal choice,” he wrote on his blog in December. “I’m not an anti-vaxxer. I’m just using common sense.”


https://www.politico.com/states/florida/story/2021/08/29/3rd-conservative-radio-host-who-condemned-vaccines-dies-of-covid-1390555



These idiots died needlessly, but they still had their freedom. :crazy:
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Re: Wizards Board COVID-19 Thread 

Post#154 » by Ruzious » Tue Aug 31, 2021 3:45 pm

tontoz wrote:
pcbothwel wrote:What is with this boards obsession with COVID and the "vaccine"? The jab is simply a therapeutic, not a vaccine. It doesnt keep you from getting it, nor does it stop you from spreading it. So mandating it is pure politics, not based on science.

You want to argue the benefits of getting the vaccine vs not? Sure, sounds like sound fodder and perfectly reasonable.
But I have not heard one sound argument as to why/how anyone benefits by forcing OTHERS to take an experimental therapeutic. Just odd behavior, let alone the gloating and snarky comments about those who are unvaccinated who die.

Enjoy the claps of your likeminded twitter friends who laugh at your "Muh Freedom" jokes, because it sounds like many of you have a deeper unhappiness and insecurity in your life that has nothing to do with politics or the "vaccine".



The vaccine clearly helps in preventing hospitalization and death. The ICUs are filled with the unvaccinated. Conservative anti vax nuts are dying from Covid. It also makes it less likely to transmit the disease.

People with other medical issues arent able to get ICU beds because they are filled with unvaccinated Covid patients. Doctors in Florida walked out protesting all of the unvaccinated Covid patients.

3rd conservative radio host who condemned vaccines dies of Covid
Marc Bernier was a mainstay on talk radio in Daytona.

A conservative Florida radio host who spoke out against Covid-19 vaccines died after a weekslong fight with the virus, marking the third radio personality to die from coronavirus who publicly rejected vaccines.

The death of Marc Bernier, 65, who was a mainstay on talk radio in Daytona Beach, was announced Saturday night by WNDB, the radio station he was affiliated with for three decades.



On Aug. 4, another Florida conservative radio host who had criticized the coronavirus vaccine, Dick Farrel, died from Covid-19 complications. Farrel, whose given name was Farrel Austin Levitt, had worked at several radio stations in Florida, including WIOD in Miami and WPBR in Palm Beach, and had served as a fill-in anchor on Newsmax.

He had strongly condemned the coronavirus vaccine, posting on Facebook on July 3, “why take a vax promoted by people who lied 2u all along about masks, where the virus came from and the death toll?” He also criticized Anthony Fauci, the nation’s top infection disease doctor, calling him a “power tripping lying freak,” according to The Washington Post, which reported on his death.


Last week, Phil Valentine, a 62-year-old conservative radio host in Nashville, Tenn., who had questioned the necessity of vaccines, also died from the virus. Valentine, the son of former six-term Rep. Tim Valentine (D-N.C.), had a nationally syndicated show.

“The people who instinctively believe that the government is the solution to everything are already talking vaccination mandates. This should be a personal choice,” he wrote on his blog in December. “I’m not an anti-vaxxer. I’m just using common sense.”


https://www.politico.com/states/florida/story/2021/08/29/3rd-conservative-radio-host-who-condemned-vaccines-dies-of-covid-1390555



These idiots died needlessly, but they still had their freedom. :crazy:

Additionally, while it's true that vaccinated people can still spread the virus, this study published in Nature Magazine did conclude that the vaccines significantly slowed the spread of the virus. Scientists believe this is similarly true with the Delta variant version of the virus.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02054-z
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Re: Wizards Board COVID-19 Thread 

Post#155 » by pcbothwel » Tue Aug 31, 2021 5:20 pm

tontoz wrote:
pcbothwel wrote:What is with this boards obsession with COVID and the "vaccine"? The jab is simply a therapeutic, not a vaccine. It doesnt keep you from getting it, nor does it stop you from spreading it. So mandating it is pure politics, not based on science.

You want to argue the benefits of getting the vaccine vs not? Sure, sounds like sound fodder and perfectly reasonable.
But I have not heard one sound argument as to why/how anyone benefits by forcing OTHERS to take an experimental therapeutic. Just odd behavior, let alone the gloating and snarky comments about those who are unvaccinated who die.

Enjoy the claps of your likeminded twitter friends who laugh at your "Muh Freedom" jokes, because it sounds like many of you have a deeper unhappiness and insecurity in your life that has nothing to do with politics or the "vaccine".



The vaccine clearly helps in preventing hospitalization and death. The ICUs are filled with the unvaccinated. Conservative anti vax nuts are dying from Covid. It also makes it less likely to transmit the disease.

People with other medical issues arent able to get ICU beds because they are filled with unvaccinated Covid patients. Doctors in Florida walked out protesting all of the unvaccinated Covid patients.

3rd conservative radio host who condemned vaccines dies of Covid
Marc Bernier was a mainstay on talk radio in Daytona.

A conservative Florida radio host who spoke out against Covid-19 vaccines died after a weekslong fight with the virus, marking the third radio personality to die from coronavirus who publicly rejected vaccines.

The death of Marc Bernier, 65, who was a mainstay on talk radio in Daytona Beach, was announced Saturday night by WNDB, the radio station he was affiliated with for three decades.



On Aug. 4, another Florida conservative radio host who had criticized the coronavirus vaccine, Dick Farrel, died from Covid-19 complications. Farrel, whose given name was Farrel Austin Levitt, had worked at several radio stations in Florida, including WIOD in Miami and WPBR in Palm Beach, and had served as a fill-in anchor on Newsmax.

He had strongly condemned the coronavirus vaccine, posting on Facebook on July 3, “why take a vax promoted by people who lied 2u all along about masks, where the virus came from and the death toll?” He also criticized Anthony Fauci, the nation’s top infection disease doctor, calling him a “power tripping lying freak,” according to The Washington Post, which reported on his death.


Last week, Phil Valentine, a 62-year-old conservative radio host in Nashville, Tenn., who had questioned the necessity of vaccines, also died from the virus. Valentine, the son of former six-term Rep. Tim Valentine (D-N.C.), had a nationally syndicated show.

“The people who instinctively believe that the government is the solution to everything are already talking vaccination mandates. This should be a personal choice,” he wrote on his blog in December. “I’m not an anti-vaxxer. I’m just using common sense.”


https://www.politico.com/states/florida/story/2021/08/29/3rd-conservative-radio-host-who-condemned-vaccines-dies-of-covid-1390555



These idiots died needlessly, but they still had their freedom. :crazy:


1) ICU's are always filled with people, namely those with diabetes/obesity. Hospitals make money to keep them full.
2) You cite people who elected to not get vaccinated and died of COVID, but what the hell does that have to do with Mandates. Do you know how many people die every year because of smoking, drinking, eating, etc.? We dont mandate new habits for them, so why is this different.
3) What about those who have gotten COVID already? There is no reason for them to take the "Vaccine".
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1
This study demonstrated that natural immunity confers longer lasting and stronger protection against infection, symptomatic disease and hospitalization caused by the Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2

SARS-CoV-2-naïve vaccinees had a 13.06-fold (95% CI, 8.08 to 21.11) increased risk for breakthrough infection with the Delta variant compared to those previously infected

hen allowing the infection to occur at any time before vaccination (from March 2020 to February 2021), evidence of waning natural immunity was demonstrated, though SARS-CoV-2 naïve vaccinees had a 5.96-fold (95% CI, 4.85 to 7.33) increased risk for breakthrough infection and a 7.13-fold (95% CI, 5.51 to 9.21) increased risk for symptomatic disease. SARS-CoV-2-naïve vaccinees were also at a greater risk for COVID-19-related-hospitalizations compared to those that were previously infected.

After adjusting for comorbidities, we found a 27.02-fold risk (95% CI, 12.7 to 57.5) for symptomatic breakthrough infection as opposed to symptomatic reinfection (P<0.001) (Table 2b). None of the covariates were significant, except for age ≥60 years.
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Re: Wizards Board COVID-19 Thread 

Post#156 » by tontoz » Tue Aug 31, 2021 5:33 pm

Smoking and obesity are not quite the same. It isn't easy to quit smoking or lose weight (i lost 30 pounds once and it was tough and took several months). They aren't contagious either.

You can't take a free shot to stop smoking or lose weight.

The government hasn't mandated the vaccine. They have provided us with the option to take a free vaccine which has been proven to save lives. I don't see how we can criticize the government here.

Employers have the right to mandate the vaccine to help protect their workers and customers.
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Re: Wizards Board COVID-19 Thread 

Post#157 » by DCZards » Tue Aug 31, 2021 5:49 pm

tontoz wrote:Smoking and obesity are not quite the same. It isn't easy to quit smoking or lose weight (i lost 30 pounds once and it was tough and took several months). They aren't contagious either.

You can't take a free shot to stop smoking or lose weight.

The government hasn't mandated the vaccine. They have provided us with the option to take a free vaccine which has been proven to save lives. I don't see how we can criticize the government here.

Employers have the right to mandate the vaccine to help protect their workers and customers.

Yeah...and more and more employers, businesses, events, etc. are going to require people to show proof of vaccinations and/or negative covid tests.

Why? Because a person's refusal to be vaccinated affects ALL of us in a variety of ways, despite what anti-vaxxers and their supporters might say to the contrary.
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Re: Wizards Board COVID-19 Thread 

Post#158 » by Kanyewest » Tue Aug 31, 2021 6:24 pm

pcbothwel wrote:What is with this boards obsession with COVID and the "vaccine"? The jab is simply a therapeutic, not a vaccine. It doesnt keep you from getting it, nor does it stop you from spreading it. So mandating it is pure politics, not based on science.

You want to argue the benefits of getting the vaccine vs not? Sure, sounds like sound fodder and perfectly reasonable.
But I have not heard one sound argument as to why/how anyone benefits by forcing OTHERS to take an experimental therapeutic. Just odd behavior, let alone the gloating and snarky comments about those who are unvaccinated who die.

Enjoy the claps of your likeminded twitter friends who laugh at your "Muh Freedom" jokes, because it sounds like many of you have a deeper unhappiness and insecurity in your life that has nothing to do with politics or the "vaccine".


A vaccine doesn't prevent you from getting the disease but the risk of hospitalization is much lower as well as the death rate. The data has shown the rate of infection is much lower- which is why at one point Maryland had Covid numbers of under 100 a week. Of course the new delta variant has come about but even then the numbers of breakthrough cases (those who go to the hospital and die are significantly lower).

It's one thing to not get the vaccine but to go on social media and criticize others for taking it is going to open you up to criticism. It's a consequence of what happens when you post stuff on social media and end up being wrong about it. Can't say I'm really happy about these people dying but I also don't have that much sympathy for them since they very well could have taken the vaccine and most likely not ended up in a hospital given the data that we have.
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Re: Wizards Board COVID-19 Thread 

Post#159 » by doclinkin » Tue Aug 31, 2021 6:44 pm

pcbothwel wrote:What is with this boards obsession with COVID and the "vaccine"? The jab is simply a therapeutic, not a vaccine. It doesnt keep you from getting it, nor does it stop you from spreading it. So mandating it is pure politics, not based on science.

You want to argue the benefits of getting the vaccine vs not? Sure, sounds like sound fodder and perfectly reasonable.
But I have not heard one sound argument as to why/how anyone benefits by forcing OTHERS to take an experimental therapeutic. Just odd behavior, let alone the gloating and snarky comments about those who are unvaccinated who die.

Enjoy the claps of your likeminded twitter friends who laugh at your "Muh Freedom" jokes, because it sounds like many of you have a deeper unhappiness and insecurity in your life that has nothing to do with politics or the "vaccine".


Given that COVID was the #3 killer of Americans last year, behind only heart disease and cancer: Yes, people are unhappy and insecure. If you aren't you probably haven't been touched by the disease, and okay thank grace for that. But the families and loved ones of 4.5 million people across the world can't say the same. Choking to death with a tube down your throat is an awful way to go.

The vaccine reduces the viral load. It does reduce the spread. It significantly reduces the rate of hospitalization and death. Even with the Delta variant. The unvaccinated populations of places like India and Brazil are where these variants are being generated. The higher the viral load, the more replications of the virus, the more likely a more communicable or lethal version of the disease will mutate into existence. The insistence of half the population of some states to refuse to prevent getting sick has overloaded our general healthcare system. My brother is an emergency room doc. His hospital ran out of body bags. Check the suicide rate of nurses last year.

It is reasonable and just that we are talking politics. That is a question of how we are governed. The job of government is to 'ensure the general welfare'. To provide for the common health and safety of the people, even when they disagree on the terms. Even when people choose to do things to themselves that are dangerous. We try to prevent it.

We pass laws all the time that do so. Sure people can choose to smoke, or drink alcohol. They cannot legally choose to use unsanctioned drugs. Children cannot intelligently make any of those choices, so we pass laws that prevent them from doing so. We pass laws to prevent people from abusing drugs. But you cannot contract alcoholism from someone coughing. We cannot prevent you from smoking, but we can pass laws saying you cannot do so in an airplane or a library or indoors in any public space. We can prevent you from using public motorways if you are using drugs or alcohol.

A government that suddenly was dealing with the #3 cause of death absolutely has a responsibility to pass laws to prevent that. Even to protect people from themselves. I used the seatbelt analogy earlier. Mandatory seatbelt laws literally restrict your freedom -- to turn yourself into a human meat missile. Because people dying in a preventable way is not a good thing. Even if they feel immune to it. And again, you cannot contract 'meat missile' diseases off someone else. If you could, if there was even a 2% chance that someone you coughed on would go flying through the air and smash into a tree, then yeah the government would find a way to regulate that.

We require immunization for childhood diseases before children can enter public school. Measles Mumps and Rubella had been snuffed to the point of non-existence. It is only reasonable that population wide diseases get the same treatment.

With a brand new virus that no one has ever encountered, we can get to herd immunity 2 ways: the natural way where everybody susceptible catches it and dies, or develops antibodies --OR-- an artificial way, by science, where we simulate resistance to the disease. 'Resistance' is absolutely the purpose of vaccines. Few vaccines provide 100% prevention of any disease. It is questionable if we will develop antibodies for this. The common cold is a coronavirus. But the efficacy of vaccines is not debated by those who have devoted their lives and careers to studying these things. The vaccines work. They help at all levels: preventing catching it, preventing contracting it, preventing hospitalization, preventing death from it. The problem is there is a fear based campaign about people forcing you to take medicine. Using the word 'experimental' as if it were a boogeyman.

Of course it is experimental. You can't do a 10 year study on something that popped up a year and a half ago. However the vaccines have gotten a mass trial and are probably the most tested new medicines that have ever been released. And have proven remarkably safe when you look at it. Put it this way, no hospitals are running out of body bags because of vaccine deaths.

Me I understand the fear of the Tuskegee experiment, where our government allowed malfeasance against certain populations. And after any given election cycle I will trust or distrust the party in power accordingly. But aside from that, what is the big freaking fear? What is the monster under the bed?

The vaccine? Its a jab that makes your arm hurt and you get a bit tired for a day or so. But if there is even a chance that your boo-boo prevents the death of that fat funny guy who drives a beer truck to your local bar, then why not just take the shot. Just in case. So that guys kids don't grow up wishing they had their daddy back.

You can argue about the numbers, or how many die or if they were coded correctly etc. But something on the order of four point five million human beings are not breathing today because they got sick. Because they couldn't get the jab in the arm that people are deliberately refusing, and yeah, by the science, endangering other people.

Here is science:

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/08/study-ties-covid-vaccines-lower-transmission-rates

(^^^ the CIDRAP director was the guy who wrote a book predicting COVID-19 )
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Re: Wizards Board COVID-19 Thread 

Post#160 » by dckingsfan » Wed Sep 1, 2021 12:07 am

doclinkin wrote:
pcbothwel wrote:You want to argue the benefits of getting the vaccine vs not? Sure, sounds like sound fodder and perfectly reasonable.

Given that COVID was the #3 killer of Americans last year, behind only heart disease and cancer.

Here is link to the number of deaths - which is almost certainly understated.
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2778234

What isn't understated is that a larger percentage of folks that don't get vaccinated go to the hospital. They eat up more resources, why does that matter?

I dunno :dontknow:

https://www.veteranstoday.com/2021/08/27/veteran-dies-of-treatable-illness-as-covid-deadbeat-fills-hospital-beds/

I would like to say this is isolated - but down here in Houston we are having 7, 8, 9 hour waits to get an ER bed. As doclinkin mentioned - it isn't so easy on those in the ER. I have two ER docs that both live near to next door to me - needless to say, they aren't happy with folks that come in unvaccinated.

And remember, when this happens the ratio of patient to ER/ICU doc/nurse ratio goes way up... additionally reducing the standard of care.

Anecdotal, text from the ER doc last week: We have 17 pending transfers. Sending people to Galveston AGAIN! One of my patients has been here all day with appendicitis but I don't have a bed for him. Why can't these mo fos just get a vaccine.

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