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Wizards Board COVID-19 Thread

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Re: Wizards Board COVID-19 Thread 

Post#181 » by doclinkin » Fri Sep 3, 2021 7:33 pm

dckingsfan wrote:
Now let’s have a look at a classic bit of disinformation. An anti-vax publication carefully designed to look like a legitimate journalistic endeavor published an article headlined as follows. “Official data reveals 67% of Covid-19 deaths since February 2021 have been people who were vaccinated.”

Big if true.

However, the latest research shows that unvaccinated Americans (consisting of about 48 percent of the population) are about 29 times more likely to be hospitalized with Covid-19 than those who are fully vaccinated while Covid deaths among the vaccinated are exceedingly low (.000945 percent). The CDC explains the data slightly differently: approximately 99.5 percent of Covid-19 deaths in the United States are among unvaccinated people. Other research and data come to the same general conclusion.

So how was the disinformation created and spread?

The alleged source of the “67 percent” claim is a recent periodic report from Public Health England and relates to British cases (anti-vaxxers have made similar false claims when earlier editions of the release were published by PHE). However, they assume their target audience won’t read it.

The report does show more fully vaccinated (679) than unvaccinated (390) deaths over the period covered, and further shows about 2/3 of Covid deaths among the partially or fully vaccinated, but only among patients suffering from the delta variant, not all Covid patients.

So the anti-vax article refers to less than one percent of the more than 132,000 total Covid deaths in the UK while seeming to claim it relates to all Covid deaths over the relevant period instead of only the delta variant deaths. Data on deaths by vaccination status for all other coronavirus strains are not yet available.


Also this is coming from England where 88% of the population over 16 have received at least one dose. If 100% of the population were vaccinated then 100% of the deaths would be from vaccinated people. There are more fully vaccinated human beings there. We are talking about 679 deaths from among 60 million vaccinated people , vs 390 deaths out of less than 8 million unvaccinated people. (.00001% of vaccinated people vs .000048% of unvaccinated people). By those numbers it would be more accurate to say unvaccinated people are nearly 80% more likely to die from the Delta variant than vaccinated people who catch the Delta strain. Roughly.
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Re: Wizards Board COVID-19 Thread 

Post#182 » by dckingsfan » Fri Sep 3, 2021 8:19 pm

doclinkin wrote:By those numbers it would be more accurate to say unvaccinated people are nearly 80% more likely to die from the Delta variant than vaccinated people who catch the Delta strain. Roughly.

Yeah, that needs to be emphasized!
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Re: Wizards Board COVID-19 Thread 

Post#183 » by tontoz » Sat Sep 4, 2021 12:55 pm


Delta Air Lines (DAL), for example, recently announced that it will begin implementing a $200 monthly surcharge for all unvaccinated employees beginning Nov. 1.

"The average hospital stay for COVID-19 has cost Delta $50,000 per person," CEO Ed Bastian wrote in a memo. "This surcharge will be necessary to address the financial risk the decision to not vaccinate is creating for our company. In recent weeks since the rise of the B.1.617.2 variant, all Delta employees who have been hospitalized with COVID were not fully vaccinated ."



https://finance.yahoo.com/news/vaccine-mandates-america-122151333.html

"But but but....my freedom.....it isnt hurting anyone if i don't get the vaccine......"


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Re: Wizards Board COVID-19 Thread 

Post#184 » by tontoz » Sun Sep 5, 2021 6:30 pm

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Re: Wizards Board COVID-19 Thread 

Post#185 » by dobrojim » Tue Sep 7, 2021 3:01 pm

A touch of welcome good news

(this is from NYT so I tend to believe it)

https://messaging-custom-newsletters.nytimes.com/template/oakv2?campaign_id=9&emc=edit_nn_20210907&instance_id=39765&nl=the-morning&productCode=NN&regi_id=110875984&segment_id=68249&te=1&uri=nyt%3A%2F%2Fnewsletter%2F0b2e6509-94d1-5c70-8fc9-ed1c48c30c95&user_id=fe295128b5cded618b6567d5581ae80c

In recent weeks, however, more data has become available, and it suggests that the true picture is less alarming. Yes, Delta has increased the chances of getting Covid for almost everyone. But if you’re vaccinated, a Covid infection is still uncommon, and those high viral loads are not as worrisome as they initially sounded.

How small are the chances of the average vaccinated American contracting Covid? Probably about one in 5,000 per day, and even lower for people who take precautions or live in a highly vaccinated community.

Or maybe one in 10,000
The estimates here are based on statistics from three places that have reported detailed data on Covid infections by vaccination status: Utah; Virginia; and King County, which includes Seattle, in Washington state. All three are consistent with the idea that about one in 5,000 vaccinated Americans have tested positive for Covid each day in recent weeks.

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Re: Wizards Board COVID-19 Thread 

Post#186 » by tontoz » Tue Sep 7, 2021 5:56 pm

Hour long press conference from the WV governor. From 11-14 minute mark he says the vast majority of his hospital cases are unvaccinated and that "there is nothing in your life more important than getting vaccinated".

At the 19:30 mark he announces prizes they are giving out to people who get vaccinated.


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Re: Wizards Board COVID-19 Thread 

Post#187 » by dckingsfan » Tue Sep 7, 2021 6:04 pm

Read on Twitter

Coupled with dobrojim's NYTimes news... this is pretty good news.

At this point, it seems highly likely that the next impactful variant will emerge as a sub-lineage from within Delta diversity, bearing additional mutations on top of Delta's mutations. Consequently, I would urge that the regulatory process for vaccine updates begin.


and

Although Delta has had relatively small impacts on neutralization titers (perhaps 6-8X reductions) and vaccine effectiveness (perhaps 10-20% reductions), with a newly reduced viral diversity, a vaccine update to a basal Delta virus seems like an easy win.


And it seems like we will be in a pretty good place for those that have been vaccinated. Just keep pushing the vaccine mandates whenever/wherever possible.
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Re: Wizards Board COVID-19 Thread 

Post#188 » by dobrojim » Tue Sep 7, 2021 9:20 pm

It seems like they (FDA) are being especially cautious about approving the vaccine(s) for under 12.

I understand why but am still impatient. I'm not enough of an immunologist to understand
the special issues that pediatric vaccine use presents. That said, we know (or remember ourselves)
that vaccines, for most folks, are a recurring part of growing up.
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Re: Wizards Board COVID-19 Thread 

Post#189 » by tontoz » Tue Sep 7, 2021 11:33 pm

dobrojim wrote:It seems like they (FDA) are being especially cautious about approving the vaccine(s) for under 12.

I understand why but am still impatient. I'm not enough of an immunologist to understand
the special issues that pediatric vaccine use presents. That said, we know (or remember ourselves)
that vaccines, for most folks, are a recurring part of growing up.



Yeah I don't get the outrage a vaccine mandates. We all had to take a laundry list of vaccines to attend school.
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Re: Wizards Board COVID-19 Thread 

Post#190 » by tontoz » Thu Sep 9, 2021 7:19 pm

:nonono:

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Re: Wizards Board COVID-19 Thread 

Post#191 » by nate33 » Thu Sep 9, 2021 8:06 pm

tontoz wrote:
dobrojim wrote:It seems like they (FDA) are being especially cautious about approving the vaccine(s) for under 12.

I understand why but am still impatient. I'm not enough of an immunologist to understand
the special issues that pediatric vaccine use presents. That said, we know (or remember ourselves)
that vaccines, for most folks, are a recurring part of growing up.



Yeah I don't get the outrage a vaccine mandates. We all had to take a laundry list of vaccines to attend school.

For me, it's the risk/reward profile, particularly for children.

In all of our other mandated vaccines, the risk of death from the disease is several orders of magnitude greater than the risk of death from Covid (for kids). Not even 500 kids out of 80 million have died of Covid so far. That's less than 6 per million (or about 30 per million of those who have actually contracted Covid). And the number of deaths of healthy kids without comorbidities is less than 1 in a million.

Meanwhile, the health risks of the vaccine are orders of magnitude higher than other vaccines. There have been more VAERS reports of hospitalizations in one year of the Covid vaccine than in 30 years of the flu vaccine. There have been several vaccine-induced deaths (no one will provide an exact number, but I've seen multiple news articles) and the rate of induced myocarditis is 67 per million.

I'm not saying the vaccine is bad, I'm merely saying there is an actual, tangible risk to the vaccine. In the face of that actual, tangible risk, one must balance the risk of Covid. For an average person, sure, Covid is far more risky than the vaccine. But that risk differential drops the younger you get, the fewer comorbidities you have, and whether or not you have already contracted the virus and attained natural immunity. For some portion the population, the vaccine is more risky than Covid (or at least is in the same general ballpark). Statistically, that portion of the population likely includes those under 20 without comorbidities, and those under 50 who have already recovered from Covid. There is no justification to require them to take the vaccine.
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Re: Wizards Board COVID-19 Thread 

Post#192 » by Ruzious » Thu Sep 9, 2021 8:19 pm

tontoz wrote:
dobrojim wrote:It seems like they (FDA) are being especially cautious about approving the vaccine(s) for under 12.

I understand why but am still impatient. I'm not enough of an immunologist to understand
the special issues that pediatric vaccine use presents. That said, we know (or remember ourselves)
that vaccines, for most folks, are a recurring part of growing up.



Yeah I don't get the outrage a vaccine mandates. We all had to take a laundry list of vaccines to attend school.

Yup. I wasn't even a little bit concerned about getting the Covid vaccine. I am a bit concerned now about getting a shingles vaccine - recommended for most people 50 and over. Gotta get 2 shots for the vaccine, and both will likely put you out of action for 2 to 3 days. One of my grandmothers had a really bad case of shingles, so I'm probably going to get the shots. My parents bleeped up - intentionally trying (successfully) to give me chickenpox as a young kid - because of the fear that it's much worse to get it when you're older. Problem is - getting chickenpox makes you susceptible to getting shingles when you're older.
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/shingles/public/shingrix/index.html
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Re: Wizards Board COVID-19 Thread 

Post#193 » by tontoz » Thu Sep 9, 2021 11:19 pm

There are some states that require a flu shot for healthcare workers or to attend school. BFD

Vaccines don't have long term side effects because they are out of your system so quickly. Side effects are short term, but in rare cases can be severe.

The AstraZeneca vaccine isn't approved for use in the US. In the UK there have been some deaths:

n a statement, Dr John Holmes who treated her said she complained of having a "severe headache shooting and stabbing" across her forehead and behind her eyes.

Tests were carried out and blood clots were found in her brain, prompting her to be moved to the neurology specialist unit at Newcastle's Royal Victoria Infirmary (RVI).

The clots are considered extremely rare - there have been 417 reported cases and 72 deaths - after 24.8 million first doses and 23.9 million second doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine in the UK.

Dr Christopher Johnson, a consultant in anaesthetics and intensive care at the RVI, said Ms Shaw had been conscious for several days and had been treated for the clots with drugs which seemed to be successful.



https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-tyne-58330796
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Re: Wizards Board COVID-19 Thread 

Post#194 » by doclinkin » Thu Sep 9, 2021 11:42 pm

nate33 wrote:
tontoz wrote:
dobrojim wrote:It seems like they (FDA) are being especially cautious about approving the vaccine(s) for under 12.

I understand why but am still impatient. I'm not enough of an immunologist to understand
the special issues that pediatric vaccine use presents. That said, we know (or remember ourselves)
that vaccines, for most folks, are a recurring part of growing up.



Yeah I don't get the outrage a vaccine mandates. We all had to take a laundry list of vaccines to attend school.

For me, it's the risk/reward profile, particularly for children.

In all of our other mandated vaccines, the risk of death from the disease is several orders of magnitude greater than the risk of death from Covid (for kids). Not even 500 kids out of 80 million have died of Covid so far. That's less than 6 per million (or about 30 per million of those who have actually contracted Covid). And the number of deaths of healthy kids without comorbidities is less than 1 in a million.

Meanwhile, the health risks of the vaccine are orders of magnitude higher than other vaccines. There have been more VAERS reports of hospitalizations in one year of the Covid vaccine than in 30 years of the flu vaccine. There have been several vaccine-induced deaths (no one will provide an exact number, but I've seen multiple news articles) and the rate of induced myocarditis is 67 per million.

I'm not saying the vaccine is bad, I'm merely saying there is an actual, tangible risk to the vaccine. In the face of that actual, tangible risk, one must balance the risk of Covid. For an average person, sure, Covid is far more risky than the vaccine. But that risk differential drops the younger you get, the fewer comorbidities you have, and whether or not you have already contracted the virus and attained natural immunity. For some portion the population, Covid is more risky than the vaccine (or at least is in the same general ballpark). Statistically, that portion of the population likely includes those under 20 without comorbidities, and those under 50 who have already recovered from Covid. There is no justification to require them to take the vaccine.


From the VAERS website:
Disclaimer:
VAERS accepts reports of adverse events and reactions that occur following vaccination. Healthcare providers, vaccine manufacturers, and the public can submit reports to the system. While very important in monitoring vaccine safety, VAERS reports alone cannot be used to determine if a vaccine caused or contributed to an adverse event or illness. The reports may contain information that is incomplete, inaccurate, coincidental, or unverifiable. In large part, reports to VAERS are voluntary, which means they are subject to biases. This creates specific limitations on how the data can be used scientifically. Data from VAERS reports should always be interpreted with these limitations in mind.


From the studies of vaccine vs placebo side effects, CDC:

Moderna :
Serious adverse events were defined as any untoward medical occurrence that resulted in death, was life-threatening, required inpatient hospitalization or prolongation of existing hospitalization, or resulted in persistent disability or incapacity. The proportions of participants who reported at least one serious adverse event were 1% in the vaccine group and 1% in the placebo group. The most common serious adverse events occurring at higher rates in the vaccine group than the placebo group were myocardial infarction *(5 cases in vaccine group vs. 3 cases in placebo group), cholecystitis (3 vs. 0), and nephrolithiasis (3 vs. 0). Three serious adverse events were considered by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) as possibly related to vaccine: the one report of intractable nausea/vomiting and two reports of facial swelling in persons who had a previous history of cosmetic filler injections.

(* all numbers out of ~11,000 test subjects)

Pfizer:
The proportions of participants who reported at least 1 serious adverse event were 0.6% in the vaccine group and 0.5% in the placebo group. The most common serious adverse events in the vaccine group which were numerically higher than in the placebo group were appendicitis **(7 in vaccine vs 2 in placebo), acute myocardial infarction (3 vs 0), and cerebrovascular accident (3 vs 1). Cardiovascular serious adverse events were balanced between vaccine and placebo groups.

(** all numbers out of ~3,000 test subjects)

Affected individuals commonly showed a history of severe allergic effects.

Study on hospitalization of children with COVID:
What is already known about this topic?

COVID-19 can cause severe illness in children and adolescents.

What is added by this report?

Weekly COVID-19–associated hospitalization rates among children and adolescents rose nearly five-fold during late June–mid-August 2021, coinciding with increased circulation of the highly transmissible SARS-CoV-2 Delta variant. The proportions of hospitalized children and adolescents with severe disease were similar before and during the period of Delta predominance. Hospitalization rates were 10 times higher among unvaccinated than among fully vaccinated adolescents.

Excerpt:

During March 1, 2020–August 14, 2021, COVID-NET identified 49.7 cumulative COVID-19–associated hospitalizations per 100,000 children and adolescents (Figure 1); rates were highest among children aged 0–4 years (69.2) and adolescents aged 12–17 years (63.7) and lowest among children aged 5–11 years (24.0). Weekly hospitalization rates were at their lowest in 2021 during the weeks ending June 12–July 3 (0.3 per 100,000 children and adolescents each week) (Figure 2). During a subsequent 6-week period after the Delta variant became predominant, rates rose each week to 1.4 during the week ending August 14, 2021, which was 4.7 times the rate during the week ending June 26, 2021 and approached the peak hospitalization rate of 1.5 observed during the week ending January 9, 2021.§§§§ Weekly rates increased among all age groups; the sharpest increase occurred among children aged 0–4 years, for whom the rate during the week ending August 14, 2021 (1.9) was nearly 10 times that during the week ending June 26, 2021 (0.2). During June 20–July 31, 2021, among 68 adolescents hospitalized with COVID-19 whose vaccination status had been ascertained, 59 were unvaccinated, five were partially vaccinated, and four were fully vaccinated; the hospitalization rate among unvaccinated adolescents was 0.8 per 100,000 person-weeks (95% CI = 0.6–0.9), compared with 0.1 (95% CI = 0.0–0.1) in fully vaccinated adolescents (rate ratio = 10.1; 95% CI = 3.7–27.9).

Among 3,116 hospitalized children and adolescents with COVID-19 during March 1, 2020–June 19, 2021, for whom complete clinical data were available,¶¶¶¶ 827 (26.5%) were admitted to an ICU, 190 (6.1%) required IMV, and 21 (0.7%) died. Among 164 hospitalized children and adolescents with COVID-19 during June 20–July 31, 2021, for whom complete clinical data were available,***** 38 (23.2%) were admitted to an ICU, 16 (9.8%) required IMV, and three (1.8%) died.
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Re: Wizards Board COVID-19 Thread 

Post#195 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Fri Sep 10, 2021 12:33 pm

tontoz wrote:I didn't even know grifting was a word. Had to look it up. :lol:

I really don’t know what it means either. That and gaslighting.

I’m going to look that up myself. :)
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Re: Wizards Board COVID-19 Thread 

Post#196 » by nate33 » Fri Sep 10, 2021 12:34 pm

doclinkin wrote:From the VAERS website:
Disclaimer:
VAERS accepts reports of adverse events and reactions that occur following vaccination. Healthcare providers, vaccine manufacturers, and the public can submit reports to the system. While very important in monitoring vaccine safety, VAERS reports alone cannot be used to determine if a vaccine caused or contributed to an adverse event or illness. The reports may contain information that is incomplete, inaccurate, coincidental, or unverifiable. In large part, reports to VAERS are voluntary, which means they are subject to biases. This creates specific limitations on how the data can be used scientifically. Data from VAERS reports should always be interpreted with these limitations in mind.

That same disclaimer applies to other vaccines. Why would you assume the Covid vaccine data is wildly inaccurate while other vaccine data is accurate? By the way, I've checked VAERS reporting on flu vaccine complications with CDC data on flu vaccine complications and VAERS was in the same ballpark. (I think it was 24 VAERS reported flu vaccine deaths versus 18 actual deaths.) The European vaccine reporting system is also posting Covid vaccine complications in line with VAERS data.

If it helps, here's a link to a CDC slide presentation showing that they believe there is a 0.2% incidence of vaccine-induced hospitalization in children. Look at page 8: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-2021-06/03-COVID-Shimabukuro-508.pdf

doclinkin wrote:From the studies of vaccine vs placebo side effects, CDC:

Moderna :
Serious adverse events were defined as any untoward medical occurrence that resulted in death, was life-threatening, required inpatient hospitalization or prolongation of existing hospitalization, or resulted in persistent disability or incapacity. The proportions of participants who reported at least one serious adverse event were 1% in the vaccine group and 1% in the placebo group. The most common serious adverse events occurring at higher rates in the vaccine group than the placebo group were myocardial infarction *(5 cases in vaccine group vs. 3 cases in placebo group), cholecystitis (3 vs. 0), and nephrolithiasis (3 vs. 0). Three serious adverse events were considered by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) as possibly related to vaccine: the one report of intractable nausea/vomiting and two reports of facial swelling in persons who had a previous history of cosmetic filler injections.

(* all numbers out of ~11,000 test subjects)

Pfizer:
The proportions of participants who reported at least 1 serious adverse event were 0.6% in the vaccine group and 0.5% in the placebo group. The most common serious adverse events in the vaccine group which were numerically higher than in the placebo group were appendicitis **(7 in vaccine vs 2 in placebo), acute myocardial infarction (3 vs 0), and cerebrovascular accident (3 vs 1). Cardiovascular serious adverse events were balanced between vaccine and placebo groups.

(** all numbers out of ~3,000 test subjects)

You should see the obvious problems with those data sets since you took the time to post the sample sizes. If the Covid vaccine causes myocarditis at a rate of 67 per million as I posted earlier (derived from VAERS data), that would be 1 per 14,925. You would need a sample size much larger than 11,000 or 3,000 to detect the problem.

This is the basic problem we are dealing with when discussing children. Their Covid risk is so small that the vaccine risk must also be very small for it to be a net benefit. If we were dealing with a really deadly disease that was killing 1-10% of sufferers, then we would all be happy that a study with a sample size of 3000 or 11,000 yielded no side effects. But we are dealing with a disease that kills 6 in a million children, and probably less than 1 in a million healthy children. You need a study with a sample size of several million to be sure. That's too expensive.

That's my point. This disease isn't deadly enough to require vaccinations in children. There is a significant likelihood that the harm of the vaccine will outweigh the benefit. (Don't forget, the benefit isn't even total immunity. It's a roughly 85% reduction in hospitalization risk 6 months after vaccination, and virtually no reduction in infection.) And that's what we are seeing.

By the way, it looks like a pre-print study is about to be released that will confirm what I'm saying:

A team led by Dr Tracy Hoeg at the University of California investigated the rate of cardiac myocarditis - heart inflammation – and chest pain in children aged 12-17 following their second dose of the vaccine.

They then compared this with the likelihood of children needing hospital treatment owing to Covid-19, at times of low, moderate and high rates of hospitalisation.

Researchers found that the risk of heart complications for boys aged 12-15 following the vaccine was 162.2 per million, which was the highest out of all the groups they looked at.

The second highest rate was among boys aged 16-17 (94.0 per million) followed by girls aged 16-17 (13.4 per million) and girls aged 12-15 (13.0 per million).

Meanwhile, the risk of a healthy boy needing hospital treatment owing to Covid-19 in the next 120 days is 26.7 per million. This means the risk they face from heart complications is 6.1 times higher than that of hospitalisation.

https://archive.fo/68FJM#selection-1371.14-1371.59

It hasn't been peer-reviewed yet.
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Re: Wizards Board COVID-19 Thread 

Post#197 » by doclinkin » Fri Sep 10, 2021 4:46 pm

nate33 wrote:
If it helps, here's a link to a CDC slide presentation showing that they believe there is a 0.2% incidence of vaccine-induced hospitalization in children. Look at page 8: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-2021-06/03-COVID-Shimabukuro-508.pdf


Not what the chart says. It does not state that these hospitalizations were COVID-induced.
These are self-reported hospitalizations of people within 1 week of receiving a vaccination, age 12-15 (.2%) and 16-25 (.2%). It is not accurate to state that the vaccination CAUSED the hospitalization.

The hospitalization rate is for those age ranges in a pre-COVID era:

For ages 12-17: .14
Ages 18-44: .15

https://ftp.cdc.gov/pub/Health_Statistics/NCHS/NHIS/SHS/2018_SHS_Table_P-10.pdf

In the COVID era those hospitalization numbers have climbed to:

.17 for ages 12-17 and
.19 for ages 18-25.

In other words, the number of people reporting serious symptoms in the week after a vaccination are pretty close to those who are hospitalized for any reason. This is why the VAERS numbers are to be taken with a grain of salt. If you get sick you wonder why, then you may link your symptoms with the recent vaccine, especially if there is an increased public awareness and heatede rhetoric asking you to pick sides on the issue.

What there is peer reviewed data for: Hospitalization rates for those with COVID are 10 times higher for unvaccinated vs vaccinated kids. Positivity rates were highest among elementary school children and teenagers and young adults 18-24 years in the latest week (week ending 3 September 2021). The positivity rate was lowest in adults aged 70 years and over. (A highly vaccinated population).

Hospital admission rates increased for those aged 5 to 14 years and groups between 55 to 84 years but decreased in all other age groups (week ending 5 September). Rates remained highest in groups aged 75 years and over and lowest in those aged 5 to 14 years. Still the number of deaths involving COVID-19 increased in all age groups.
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Re: Wizards Board COVID-19 Thread 

Post#198 » by nate33 » Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:09 pm

doclinkin wrote:
nate33 wrote:
If it helps, here's a link to a CDC slide presentation showing that they believe there is a 0.2% incidence of vaccine-induced hospitalization in children. Look at page 8: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-2021-06/03-COVID-Shimabukuro-508.pdf


Not what the chart says. It does not state that these hospitalizations were COVID-induced.
These are self-reported hospitalizations of people within 1 week of receiving a vaccination, age 12-15 (.2%) and 16-25 (.2%). It is not accurate to state that the vaccination CAUSED the hospitalization.

The hospitalization rate is for those age ranges in a pre-COVID era:

For ages 12-17: .14
Ages 18-44: .15

https://ftp.cdc.gov/pub/Health_Statistics/NCHS/NHIS/SHS/2018_SHS_Table_P-10.pdf

In the COVID era those hospitalization numbers have climbed to:

.17 for ages 12-17 and
.19 for ages 18-25.

In other words, the number of people reporting serious symptoms in the week after a vaccination are pretty close to those who are hospitalized for any reason. This is why the VAERS numbers are to be taken with a grain of salt. If you get sick you wonder why, then you may link your symptoms with the recent vaccine, especially if there is an increased public awareness and heatede rhetoric asking you to pick sides on the issue.

What there is peer reviewed data for: Hospitalization rates for those with COVID are 10 times higher for unvaccinated vs vaccinated kids. Positivity rates were highest among elementary school children and teenagers and young adults 18-24 years in the latest week (week ending 3 September 2021). The positivity rate was lowest in adults aged 70 years and over. (A highly vaccinated population).

Hospital admission rates increased for those aged 5 to 14 years and groups between 55 to 84 years but decreased in all other age groups (week ending 5 September). Rates remained highest in groups aged 75 years and over and lowest in those aged 5 to 14 years. Still the number of deaths involving COVID-19 increased in all age groups.

Doc, the CDC chart you posted (good chart BTW) refers to hospitalizations PER YEAR. So an average of 1.8% of kids are hospitalized per year. So in a given week .035% of kids are hospitalized (1.8%/52). But 0.2% of kids were hospitalized the week after the Pfizer vaccine. That's an order of magnitude higher. The other hospitalizations are mere background noise relative to the vaccine hospitalizations.
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Re: Wizards Board COVID-19 Thread 

Post#199 » by dckingsfan » Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:50 pm

There are several parts to vaccinating kids.

1) Overall herd immunity with the population. Kids represent a significant portion of the population. It is about getting everyone vaccinated.

2) Kids get and spread Covid - this is important especially in schools. Note that a Significant number of schools have closed - because of staffing issues (not just kids getting Covid).

3) Our pediatric healthcare system is fragile. A surge in Covid + RSV has overwhelmed some of the children's hospitals - specifically in communities where vaccination rates are low.

4) Myocarditis is real with the vaccine, there have been 1,047 reports total for those under 30. Let there be no doubt that more under 30s died of Covid than the reported myocarditis side effects.

5) Kids long haulers is real. Studies in the US had it pegged between 5-10%. A new study out of England puts the rate between 2-14%. Take the lowest number and that dwarfs myocarditis.

6) Lastly, across the board, pediatricians unequivocally believe that the benefits of vaccination far, far, far outweigh any risks - I think that is a quote from the HHS chief scientific officer for the COVID-19.

But the misinformation and disinformation is epic. My favorite: “943 innocent kids … are now injured or dead” because of the COVID-19 vaccine.

Yeah, not so much...

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/may/26/instagram-posts/theres-no-proof-covid-19-vaccine-has-injured-or-ki/
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Re: Wizards Board COVID-19 Thread 

Post#200 » by dckingsfan » Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:14 pm

Just one more thing... usually it is myocarditis risk associated with vaccination that is cited as the complication (and the driving factor for kids getting hospitalized after vaccines).

Well, it turns out that COVID-19 itself is much higher than with the vaccines... so, there is that.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2110475

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