The one move to a title contender

WallToWall · Post #1 » by **WallToWall** » Thu Sep 2, 2021 8:43 pm

Is there one move the Wizards can make that could make them instant title contenders? What would that move be and what do you think it would cost?

I think Embiid would make us title contenders. LeBron, and maybe Curry would too. I would sell the farm for Embiid…give up how ever many picks and anyone but Beal, Bryant, Gafford, Kuzma, and Dinwidie.

badinage · Post #2 » by **badinage** » Thu Sep 2, 2021 9:55 pm

I think the Siakam of 2019-2020 could vault them, maybe not into contenders, but close to contending. Provided they don’t have to part with too many good pieces. The kind of closeness I’m talking about is the closeness where you become attractive to a disgruntled guy who wants to leave his team and — voila! title town.

9 and 20 · Post #3 » by **9 and 20** » Thu Sep 2, 2021 10:23 pm

Adding Ben Simmons, if he gets his shite together, to Beal, Dinwiddie, and Gafford makes us a contender, depending on your definition of contender. I think we'd be a tough out in the playoffs, even for the Nets.

Another guy comes to mind - Peter John Ramos. Not because he would make us a contender. Only because how could you not.

Post #4 » by **nate33** » Thu Sep 2, 2021 11:06 pm

No.

To be "one move away", you would have to have sufficient talent to be just below "contender" status, plus you need the asset base (future picks) to trade to add that final piece.

We have neither. Our talent level is maybe enough to be a .500 team. And we can't trade any future assets because of the pick protections on the pick we gave up for Westbrook

doclinkin · Post #5 » by **doclinkin** » Thu Sep 2, 2021 11:41 pm

Isaiah Todd becomes a better defending Kevin Durant.

payitforward · Post #6 » by **payitforward** » Fri Sep 3, 2021 12:46 am

Doc's post tells the tale: the "one move" idea is magical thinking.

Forget the practicalities of making a move, there isn't a single player in the league who would turn this team into a title contender. Period. Not LeBron. Not Steph. Not Giannis. Not Luka.

Last year, we got lucky & slid into the playoffs, where we were brushed aside casually. This year we are minus the guy who was our best player on the season as a whole (Gafford was our best player in the 400 minutes he posted).

Thus, the first question is whether & how the 4 main guys we added (Kuzma, Harrell, KCP & Dinwiddie) will make up for losing Westbrook & even improve us -- & if so by how much? I think they will. But I don't know by how much.

edit: not just the 4 we added, but also getting Bryant back....

Post #7 » by **penbeast0** » Fri Sep 3, 2021 9:55 pm

2nd best, Beal was still the best pretty easily.

CntOutSmrtCrazy · Post #8 » by **CntOutSmrtCrazy** » Fri Sep 3, 2021 10:56 pm

9 and 20 wrote:Adding Ben Simmons, if he gets his shite together, to Beal, Dinwiddie, and Gafford makes us a contender, depending on your definition of contender. I think we'd be a tough out in the playoffs, even for the Nets.

Another guy comes to mind - Peter John Ramos. Not because he would make us a contender. Only because how could you not.

Ben Simmons is this boards version of a STD that just can’t be treated.

Dat2U · Post #9 » by **Dat2U** » Sat Sep 4, 2021 11:31 am

One move could get the team to a place where it could win a series with the right matchup. As of now we're just fighting for a play-in spot.

A Ben Simmons acquisition would be great. Knocks Philly down too but even he wouldn't make the Wizards a contender. Maybe we could challenge that mythical 50 win game threshold though.

Dat2U · Post #10 » by **Dat2U** » Sat Sep 4, 2021 11:56 am

Here's my little title contender test:

PG Dinwiddie ... Holiday ... Neto
SG Beal ... Caldwell-Pope
SF xxx ... Bertans ... Kispert
PF xxx ... Kuz, Hachimura ... Avdija, Gill & Todd
CE Gafford ... Harrell, Bryant

I try to match the roster as I would view where each player would fit on a contending team. For the Wizards they come out a little better than I thought. I have little confidence in glut of mediocre Fs starting for a contender but all could find some sort of useful role so filling out a rotation isn't a problem with this group.

I think the the team is 2 players away. Unfortunately one of those players would need to be an elite two way forward and those rarely available which is why I've repeatedly supported going after Simmons. The other would be a good 3 & D wing. Now of course I said Ben doesn't get us there but if theory you added another quality player beyond him, things get really interesting.

Silvie Lysandra · Post #11 » by **Silvie Lysandra** » Sat Sep 4, 2021 1:54 pm

payitforward wrote:
Forget the practicalities of making a move, there isn't a single player in the league who would turn this team into a title contender. Period. Not LeBron. Not Steph. Not Giannis. Not Luka.

this team is a championship contender with any of those players, and LeBron and Giannis make this team arguably *favorites*

payitforward · Post #12 » by **payitforward** » Sat Sep 4, 2021 2:19 pm

Chaos Revenant wrote:
payitforward wrote:
Forget the practicalities of making a move, there isn't a single player in the league who would turn this team into a title contender. Period. Not LeBron. Not Steph. Not Giannis. Not Luka.

this team is a championship contender with any of those players, and LeBron and Giannis make this team arguably *favorites*

...which must mean that you think the Wizards right now are better than the Lakers w/o LeBron, the Warriors w/o Steph, the Bucks w/o Giannis, & the Mavs w/o Luka.

Of course you do! You're a fan!

Nothing to argue about here, just a couple of differing opinions.

Be nice to find out!

I'm sure we can agree about that!

pcbothwel · Post #13 » by **pcbothwel** » Sat Sep 4, 2021 2:45 pm

payitforward wrote:
Chaos Revenant wrote:
payitforward wrote:
Forget the practicalities of making a move, there isn't a single player in the league who would turn this team into a title contender. Period. Not LeBron. Not Steph. Not Giannis. Not Luka.

this team is a championship contender with any of those players, and LeBron and Giannis make this team arguably *favorites*

...which must mean that you think the Wizards right now are better than the Lakers w/o LeBron, the Warriors w/o Steph, the Bucks w/o Giannis, & the Mavs w/o Luka.

Of course you do! You're a fan!

Nothing to argue about here, just a couple of differing opinions.

Be nice to find out! I'm sure we can agree about that!

Ughhh... Yeah, and its not close.
In what world does a Brunson-Hardaway-DFS-Kleber-KP team beat us in a 7 game series? Maybe when Brooks was coaching and Russ could shoot us out of a game, but we are far more talented than them.

You think we lose to Russ-THT-Bazemore-AD-Dwight?

Im sorry, but we are severely underrating this DC team right now. Our 2nd team of Holiday-KCP-Deni-Bertans-Harrell would give a half dozen teams in the league a tough out.
Again, I know its fun and games because none of these players can just magically appear on the Wiz, but if you actually think putting an MVP caliber player on this team doesn't make us a contender, then Im not sure what to tell you.

payitforward · Post #14 » by **payitforward** » Sat Sep 4, 2021 4:21 pm

Hey, you may be right!

Every time I try to figure out how many games we'll win this year -- in the abstract, obviously, using historical metrics for how many wins our new guys might bring -- I wind up somewhere around 46-48 wins. Then I shake my head & think I must've gotten something wrong somehow.

But, of course, if that really is the team we are, then no question that adding one of the top half dozen players in the league would make us contenders, & Giannis would make us a truly formidable one!

But... we haven't actually won those games yet. So maybe better to say that when we actually do it, why then -- then, not now -- we will be one superstar away from being a contender.

Like a lot of teams.

E.g., in 2017-18 sixteen teams in the league fit that profile. The following year the number was fourteen. I.e. when we actually win those games, then we will be an above average NBA team.

Make sense?

CobraCommander · Post #15 » by **CobraCommander** » Sun Sep 5, 2021 5:26 pm

Embiid with the current best version of the wiz roster would make them a title contender-

I say that saying Beal and Embiid would be a 1A, 1B situation that offensively rivals anyone in east. Add the shooting the wiz have and further development from Rui, Deni and Bryant - plus trez- That would be tough to deal with

dckingsfan · Post #16 » by **dckingsfan** » Sun Sep 5, 2021 5:58 pm

Resign Chandler Hutchison??

payitforward · Post #17 » by **payitforward** » Sun Sep 5, 2021 7:27 pm

I don't get the point of this thread? Is it supposed to prove that we're better now than we were before we moved Russ & signed Dinwiddie? Is that the point? In that case, we have a season ahead of us in which to prove that. You can't prove it by saying, "boy we'd be really good if only we had Giannis...." No kidding.

WallToWall · Post #18 » by **WallToWall** » Mon Sep 6, 2021 3:56 pm

payitforward wrote:I don't get the point of this thread?

1. figure out if there are any of us who think the team is one player away. (I do)
2. Find out who that one player is.

If you dont think we are a player away, then this exercise is probably not worth your time.
Just about every post we make on this board is stating something to the effect of "we are better with this addition" or "we are worse with this player". This thread is no different in that sense. It is different in that there is a belief that we are one player away from being contenders. Oh, BTW, by contenders, I define that as being in the conference finals and standing a chance to win it.

payitforward · Post #19 » by **payitforward** » Mon Sep 6, 2021 5:11 pm

Fair enough. You started the thread, so you get to say what the point is!

But... would you have said the same thing last year? I.e. if we had one player (e.g. Giannis) we'd be a title contender? In fact... did you say that? I think someone did. In fact, doesn't someone say something like this pretty much every year?

In which case, I wonder how different that is from saying, "I think we're going to be better this year."

& if the statement comes down to, "if we had Giannis we'd have a good chance to be one of the top 2 teams in the East," well... I'd say that's true of about 1/2 of the teams in the EC. E.g., last year the Celtics ent 36-36. Giannis is worth a dozen wins or a bit more. He'd likely have given them the best record in the East.

verbal8 · Post #20 » by **verbal8** » Tue Sep 7, 2021 12:55 am

payitforward wrote:Hey, you may be right! Every time I try to figure out how many games we'll win this year -- in the abstract, obviously, using historical metrics for how many wins our new guys might bring -- I wind up somewhere around 46-48 wins. Then I shake my head & think I must've gotten something wrong somehow.

But, of course, if that really is the team we are, then no question that adding one of the top half dozen players in the league would make us contenders, & Giannis would make us a truly formidable one!

But... we haven't actually won those games yet. So maybe better to say that when we actually do it, why then -- then, not now -- we will be one superstar away from being a contender.

If we might be that team and Ben Simmons might be that star - it makes sense to get him at a reasonable cost. The biggest thing I would say at this point is it doesn't seem that Philly is considering letting him go at a reasonable cost.

There is risk of course with making a big move and striking out. However I think the risk of being stuck as a low 40-win team and having Beal leave is a bigger one.