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The one move to a title contender

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Re: The one move to a title contender 

Post#21 » by verbal8 » Tue Sep 7, 2021 1:11 am

CobraCommander wrote:Embiid with the current best version of the wiz roster would make them a title contender-

I say that saying Beal and Embiid would be a 1A, 1B situation that offensively rivals anyone in east. Add the shooting the wiz have and further development from Rui, Deni and Bryant - plus trez- That would be tough to deal with


I don't really see a scenario where Embiid is obtainable, but I could see a possibility where KAT would be available. An appeal for KAT would be joining up with Beal would mean being on a contender in the East.
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Re: The one move to a title contender 

Post#22 » by dangermouse » Tue Sep 7, 2021 4:49 am

Sign MJ and get him on the Regeneron

Thats about as realistic as trading for Lebron, Curry etc
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Re: The one move to a title contender 

Post#23 » by gambitx777 » Tue Sep 7, 2021 9:12 am

Other players getting hurt. And they wizards really making a jump is about it. I mean if Rui and Kuz break out and Beal dos Beal and dinwidie shows he's worth his money. And we get some injury luck who knows.

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Re: The one move to a title contender 

Post#24 » by CobraCommander » Tue Sep 7, 2021 1:20 pm

verbal8 wrote:
CobraCommander wrote:Embiid with the current best version of the wiz roster would make them a title contender-

I say that saying Beal and Embiid would be a 1A, 1B situation that offensively rivals anyone in east. Add the shooting the wiz have and further development from Rui, Deni and Bryant - plus trez- That would be tough to deal with


I don't really see a scenario where Embiid is obtainable, but I could see a possibility where KAT would be available. An appeal for KAT would be joining up with Beal would mean being on a contender in the East.

Kat won’t make you a contender tho....butler saw and proved this in minny.

Players know and butler is one that would openly say it
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Re: The one move to a title contender 

Post#25 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:58 pm

I need some hella green font. ...

The one move could be to go after this John Wall guy! Yeah, that's the ticket.

We trade Bradley Beal.:-)

But we demand they give us Christian Wood! Also, they take Bertans...

And they also give us three first-round picks. I'm going to end on Sirius. Thank you Google Translator
After the Wizards GM really went and did it by having an imaginative, strong, draft day. I totally feel this as well;

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Re: The one move to a title contender 

Post#26 » by long suffrin' boulez fan » Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:03 am

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:I need some hella green font. ...

The one move could be to go after this John Wall guy! Yeah, that's the ticket.

We trade Bradley Beal.:-)

But we demand they give us Christian Wood! Also, they take Bertans...

And they also give us three first-round picks. I'm going to end on Sirius. Thank you Google Translator


Let’s do it. Two first round picks to us and they eat 1/2 of Wall’s salary.

Aaron Holiday my arse. We’ll run JWall with our second team. JWall, three shooters and Gafford. Try to stop that.
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Re: The one move to a title contender 

Post#27 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:47 am

I like two first round picks and they keep paying $100 million on them even better than three first round picks!

:nod:
After the Wizards GM really went and did it by having an imaginative, strong, draft day. I totally feel this as well;

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Re: The one move to a title contender 

Post#28 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:49 am

Running John Wall with the second team would be insane
After the Wizards GM really went and did it by having an imaginative, strong, draft day. I totally feel this as well;

AFM wrote:Don't sleep on these white bois. That's all I'm saying.
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Re: The one move to a title contender 

Post#29 » by pancakes3 » Thu Sep 16, 2021 5:12 pm

1 move ain't gonna cut it.

Seems like you need 3 stars to be contenders in the league nowadays and we only have 1, so I really don't see any way of doing it. We'd need Dame and Embiid, or Spider and Jokic, or Harden and Durant.
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Re: The one move to a title contender 

Post#30 » by Ruzious » Thu Sep 16, 2021 6:47 pm

Wait for Houston to buy out Wall, and then sign him for the veteran minimum. Have Beal say it was all a misunderstanding and that it's his dream now to reunite with Wall and win a championship... while he makes 25 times what Wall makes. He adds... well, that last part was more my wife's dream.
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Re: The one move to a title contender 

Post#31 » by payitforward » Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:29 am

John's owed almost $100m. No one in his right mind throws away money at that scale. No one. Which means there is going to be no buyout. & next Summer, John is going to pick up his $45m option.

Meanwhile, John's not going to be playing competitive basketball, so we can expect him to be in tip top shape at the end of those 2 years. That's when he'll join another team at a low salary -- presumably to try to win a title. That's probably not us.
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Re: The one move to a title contender 

Post#32 » by Ruzious » Fri Sep 17, 2021 1:49 pm

payitforward wrote:John's owed almost $100m. No one in his right mind throws away money at that scale. No one. Which means there is going to be no buyout. & next Summer, John is going to pick up his $45m option.

Meanwhile, John's not going to be playing competitive basketball, so we can expect him to be in tip top shape at the end of those 2 years. That's when he'll join another team at a low salary -- presumably to try to win a title. That's probably not us.

The term "tongue in cheek" comes to mind. I think I left some clues there.

But I do think Houston will end up playing him this season - even though the reports say they won't.
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Re: The one move to a title contender 

Post#33 » by pancakes3 » Fri Sep 17, 2021 3:25 pm

i thought the reports meant he's being held out of preseason. slim chance he misses actual games.
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Re: The one move to a title contender 

Post#34 » by doclinkin » Fri Sep 17, 2021 3:57 pm

I guess this discussion fits here. People have mostly dismissed the premise of this thread, for various reasons, but it seems to me the idea is interesting to address. I don't necessarily think this team is one MOVE away from being a title contender, but if we are asking the question, 'how far are we from being a title contender, and what keeps us from being that team?", it becomes a more reasonable question.

I do think this team has the potential to be dangerous and a really tough out in the eastern conference playoffs. I agree with the idea that our top end established talent is not enough to match-up man-for-man for teams with no-question all stars in their position. We simply don't have the star power in a 5-on-5 match-up, in the playoffs, when the rotation shortens and the best players take all the minutes.

HOWEVER. While we may not be able to add a star without losing all the depth we have and every future draft pick, I do wonder if that precludes us from ever having that star. That is: is it possible there is a breakout player on this roster who could grow into their star potential and change the conversation about the team.

So that's my question and maybe it fits in this thread or maybe it deserves its own thread but: Which player currently on this team do you imagine MIGHT have the star calibre talent to break out, to take the next steps in improvement, to reach their top potential. And or maybe in addition: how good would they have to become for this team to become a true contender on their advancement alone. Many teams who are contenders have had to develop their championship calbre contender over time with sudden breakthroughs or steady advancement.

Can we grow our own stars? If so who and how. Who is the most likely breakout star. Who do you want to see grow and how. I know our cranky codger PIF will hop in to poo poo any reckless speculation, and dismiss the exercise (yes if we were better then we we would be better) but I simply mean what is your vision board? Is there a player who has shown flashes, and if they were able to string together multiple nights of those flashes, they would be an all-star or elevate the team into the conversation of teams that could contend for the EC title?

Who ya got? Who's your guy and why? What would they need to do. How have they shown that ability in the past. What would they have to do to reach your dream of what you see in them and how to get there. Who is your breakout candidate? Which players do you feel are likely to have a breakthrough and in what way? How good could they get. How good could we get from growth alone.
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Re: The one move to a title contender 

Post#35 » by Dat2U » Fri Sep 17, 2021 4:43 pm

Ruzious wrote:Wait for Houston to buy out Wall, and then sign him for the veteran minimum. Have Beal say it was all a misunderstanding and that it's his dream now to reunite with Wall and win a championship... while he makes 25 times what Wall makes. He adds... well, that last part was more my wife's dream.


Wall about to take another year off. I'm sure he'll probably be bought out next summer but the market for him as a starter next year will be really limited if this is this the case.
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Re: The one move to a title contender 

Post#36 » by doclinkin » Fri Sep 17, 2021 4:50 pm

For my part, I liken this team to the Detroit Pistons crew, a team with solid players all around in Rip and Billups, who added a guy like Ben Wallace and a coach like Larry Brown and suddenly they catalyzed to a true team.

Of players with star potential already on the squad I feel like we have a few who at least have shown the potential to be stars, in flashes. Here's one:

The addition of Daniel Gafford elevated and altered this team last year. He was exactly what the squad needed. I do think big Lopez was underrated, anchoring our starting line, scoring efficiently, boxing out to do dirty work, tiring out starting bigs and allowing Gafford to play with high energy and feast on back-ups or starters with foul problems. Still. In that back-up role Gafford was able to put up ~10 and 6 with 2 blocks in 17 minutes. If he were able to maintain that rate as a starter with no drop off, we are looking at per 36 numbers of 20+pts 11+rb 3.6 blocks and 1+ steal.

How does he get there? He would need to get stronger better conditioned, add a pick and roll game, figure a low-post move, add a face-up option.

As a starter teams will scout ways to shut down what he does well. The difference between 17 minutes and 36 minutes requires improved stamina, it also comes with many more bumps and bruises. As a high flying dunker, Gafford operated in space that was opened up by teams trying to stop Westbrook on the interior. He won't have a triple double all-star next to him to siphon all the attention. He needs an ability to use the advantage of his relative mobility at his size as a weapon. If he can play off of guard penetration or he learns pick and roll play from Trez and in cooperation with Dinwiddie/Beal then his speed and size let him blow past Bigs who step up to try to trap the ball handlers.

He is still a big slim Tigger type, for all his athletic bounce. Jumping rebounders lose their jump if you are inside their footwork or boxing them out. If he gets stronger then he has the option of going low to leverage players off his spot as well. I wish Rodman were able to coach players with what he did so well, he was one of the rare bouncy rebounders who also kept a strong base, boxing out, worming his way around through and over players, defending with his feet as well as his aerial ability.

If Gafford becomes a threat to hit an open shot at the mid-range he also gives himself a runway to dive in for offensive putbacks when opposing bigs have to follow him outside the paint. It gives Dinwiddie and Beal more room to operate.

And if he had a go-to move he could score with even when doubled, then he becomes a real problem. His vertical passing lanes mean he is a danger that has to be accounted for, but you can't get a perfect lob-dunk on every shot, if he had a bank shot (Duncan) or a skyhook (Kareem, Lopez last year) or a Ewing fadeaway or you know, a Dream Shake, well then, he'd be a hall of famer, wouldn't he? Yeah I know I know, if he were better he would be better. Still: stronger, stamina, practice and chemistry in the pick and roll, either a jumper outside 10 feet or one low post move. These are not impossible things for a 22 year old big to add. Bigs develop slower than most. But hey the Lopez brothers are good examples, one adding an outside shot, the other showing that unstoppable hook shot that pretty much came out of nowhere.

Still. Imagine this team, as currently constructed, without losing anyone, added a 20/10/3blk/1steal player in the middle next to Beal and a bunch of 3 pt shooters. How deep into the playoffs do we go then?
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Re: The one move to a title contender 

Post#37 » by payitforward » Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:08 pm

doclinkin wrote:I guess this discussion fits here. ... is it possible there is a breakout player on this roster who could grow into their star potential and change the conversation about the team.

So that's my question and maybe it fits in this thread or maybe it deserves its own thread but: Which player currently on this team do you imagine MIGHT have the star calibre talent to break out, to take the next steps in improvement, to reach their top potential. ...

This is a very cool question, doc -- & I think probably it does deserve its own thread.
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Re: The one move to a title contender 

Post#38 » by payitforward » Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:43 pm

doclinkin wrote:Of players with star potential already on the squad.... Here's one:

The addition of Daniel Gafford elevated and altered this team last year. He was exactly what the squad needed. ... Gafford was able to put up ~10 and 6 with 2 blocks in 17 minutes. If he were able to maintain that rate as a starter with no drop off, we are looking at per 36 numbers of 20+pts 11+rb 3.6 blocks and 1+ steal....

If Gafford put up those numbers over a season, as a starter playing 25 minutes a game, he'd be one of the top handful of Centers in the league. Period. Small handful.

It strikes me that's the best kind of "potential" too -- that a guy has already done it, the questions that remain being: 1) can he do it as a starter, & 2) can he do it over a whole season.

No one else on the team has shown star potential in that way. For anyone else, it would be a matter of, as you say, "flashes" -- occasional games where a guy looks like he might have the ability to be great.

TBH, I'm not sure we have any of those. We have guys who've shown flashes of the potential to be really good, to be excellent NBA players. But, "stars?" "Star potential?" I can't think of anyone else but Gafford.
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Re: The one move to a title contender 

Post#39 » by doclinkin » Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:15 pm

payitforward wrote:
doclinkin wrote:Of players with star potential already on the squad.... Here's one:

The addition of Daniel Gafford elevated and altered this team last year. He was exactly what the squad needed. ... Gafford was able to put up ~10 and 6 with 2 blocks in 17 minutes. If he were able to maintain that rate as a starter with no drop off, we are looking at per 36 numbers of 20+pts 11+rb 3.6 blocks and 1+ steal....

If Gafford put up those numbers over a season, as a starter playing 25 minutes a game, he'd be one of the top handful of Centers in the league. Period. Small handful.

It strikes me that's the best kind of "potential" too -- that a guy has already done it, the questions that remain being: 1) can he do it as a starter, & 2) can he do it over a whole season.

No one else on the team has shown star potential in that way. For anyone else, it would be a matter of, as you say, "flashes" -- occasional games where a guy looks like he might have the ability to be great.

TBH, I'm not sure we have any of those. We have guys who've shown flashes of the potential to be really good, to be excellent NBA players. But, "stars?" "Star potential?" I can't think of anyone else but Gafford.


i've got a few I could make a case for, plausible or no. But I'm surprised there's not one more guy on your list. What player currently on the team, as a starter, against quality competiton:

Has gone 14 for 14 in a game.
Averaged 18/10 per 36 in Washington,
Shot over 70% from 2 and over 40% from 3 the last season he played.



Granted, I have banged on about his slow-footed positional defense out on the perimeter. HOWEVER, on a team with solid on-ball pressure and perimeter defenders, I think a rejuvenated, healed, stronger Thomas Bryant could prove a serious asset on defense when we can afford to play drop coverage. It looks like his rehab also includes building his core strength and improving his lateral quickness, which combined with the positional defensive fundamentals that Wes coached to turn Jokic into a solid defender, it's not inconceivable he takes a leap forward on defense. He won't stint on the effort and activity anyway. A stronger faster Thomas Bryant, shooting at his usual efficiency but with improved defense, that player would be a force in this league.



This guy has shown more than just flashes. He has consistently put up efficient numbers. His defensive numbers have suffered given that he was on a team that had to make up for IT's breakdowns, but in the bubble, once Isaiah heroball Thomas was no longer on the team, he showed up as a high effort defender. If a player can reach their potential based on effort and hard work then Thomas has a chance to live up to our best hopes for him.

Granted, he'll compete with the aforementioned Gafford for those reps and opportunities. Not to mention a former 6MOTY. Still, With his ranged attack Bryant adds a dimension the others have not shown. With Gafford I have a short checklist of things he can do to ascend. With Bryant that checklist has one item: better defense. You can break it down further (lower stance, better positional anticipation, quicker feet, better balance, better core strength) and you can suggest that his numbers will be dependent on if he develops good chemistry with Dinwiddie or back-up ballhandlers. But if Thomas Bryant is scoring with that level of reliability in the playoffs, from long range, he changes how this team is defended. A ranged shooter in the front court who can still defend and rebound lets us remain Big at both ends. That is a player who opens up the playbook for every other player that shares the court with him.
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Re: The one move to a title contender 

Post#40 » by doclinkin » Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:25 pm

Now imagine that player proves able to play NEXT to Gafford for at least a few minutes a game. More than anything this team lacks production at the 4. If we have Bigs who can share the court with each other--a highly mobile free range defender who plays as a 5 on offense, paired with a keystone Big who can stretch the defense at the other end-- how good could that team be?

You can picture it like a thrift store version of the Milwaukee Bucks if you need a current example.

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