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Official Trade Thread - Part XLII

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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLII 

Post#361 » by nate33 » Sun Nov 21, 2021 10:25 pm

gambitx777 wrote:I think Kuz and stuff for white is a bit lop sidded. White has had injury issues. And isn't even their 4th best guard anymore. They need bigs and shooting bertans works

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I just checked out his numbers... and yikes!

29% from 3
49.5 TS% on low usage
The only starter with a negative on/off differential (and it's bad: -8.9)
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLII 

Post#362 » by gambitx777 » Sun Nov 21, 2021 11:34 pm

nate33 wrote:
gambitx777 wrote:I think Kuz and stuff for white is a bit lop sidded. White has had injury issues. And isn't even their 4th best guard anymore. They need bigs and shooting bertans works

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using RealGM mobile app

I just checked out his numbers... and yikes!

29% from 3
49.5 TS% on low usage
The only starter with a negative on/off differential (and it's bad: -8.9)
Yeah that's why I think bertans would be a fair trade. Reclamation projects on both ends .

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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLII 

Post#363 » by Dat2U » Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:09 am

Needing 3 pt shooting was the first thing I suggested lol. A healthy Bertans would be very beneficial and might make teams 2nd guess throwing a zone against us. If Bertans is going out in a deal, shooting needs to come back in return. Just saying Kispert can fill that role is not enough.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLII 

Post#364 » by Wizardspride » Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:37 am

Dat2U wrote:Needing 3 pt shooting was the first thing I suggested lol. A healthy Bertans would be very beneficial and might make teams 2nd guess throwing a zone against us. If Bertans is going out in a deal, shooting needs to come back in return. Just saying Kispert can fill that role is not enough.

Yeah, and that's why I'm reluctant to trade Davis.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLII 

Post#365 » by payitforward » Mon Nov 22, 2021 2:06 am

nate33 wrote:
Dat2U wrote:Clear needs to me are 3pt shooting and better guard play off the bench. Neto & Holiday have been underwhelming.

Someone (I think Ruzious) stated it perfectly earlier: Holiday is a 4th guard and Neto is a 5th guard. Our problem is that we don't have a 3rd guard - a guy who we are comfortable playing 25 minutes every game.

Meanwhile we have 5 forwards worthy of regular minutes: KCP, Kuzma, Hachimura, Avdija and Bertans; plus a rookie in Kispert who will hopefully get there. A trade of one of those rotation caliber forwards for a 3rd guard would be a big help.

Neto actually started the season strongly. But, he's gone downhill the last few games. OTOH, I wouldn't count him out.

In any case, we still need a guard! Esp. since we have an overload of forwards. I'd be happy to trade any one of your list of 5 -- depending, obviously, on what we got back. In a sense, KCP would make the least sense, given the overload is biggest at the 4 not the 3. Ditto Kispert -- esp. since he wouldn't bring all that much back.

That leaves Rui, Deni, Kuzma & Bertans. I presume Bertans would be hardest to trade. I don't really want to trade Deni, myself -- too young w/ too much upside.

I'm guessing there's no trade in the offing.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLII 

Post#366 » by Ruzious » Mon Nov 22, 2021 2:07 am

Wizardspride wrote:
Dat2U wrote:Needing 3 pt shooting was the first thing I suggested lol. A healthy Bertans would be very beneficial and might make teams 2nd guess throwing a zone against us. If Bertans is going out in a deal, shooting needs to come back in return. Just saying Kispert can fill that role is not enough.

Yeah, and that's why I'm reluctant to trade Davis.

But here's the thing; we don't have ANY guard who scares anyone from the 3 point line. We have 3 forwards who do - KCP, Kispert (as he gets experience), and Bertans. And no - KCP and Kispert are not guards. We Don't need to keep Bertans, What we should effort to get is a 3rd guard who's a legit 3 point shooting threat.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLII 

Post#367 » by Wizardspride » Mon Nov 22, 2021 2:43 am

Ruzious wrote:
Wizardspride wrote:
Dat2U wrote:Needing 3 pt shooting was the first thing I suggested lol. A healthy Bertans would be very beneficial and might make teams 2nd guess throwing a zone against us. If Bertans is going out in a deal, shooting needs to come back in return. Just saying Kispert can fill that role is not enough.

Yeah, and that's why I'm reluctant to trade Davis.

But here's the thing; we don't have ANY guard who scares anyone from the 3 point line. We have 3 forwards who do - KCP, Kispert (as he gets experience), and Bertans. And no - KCP and Kispert are not guards. We Don't need to keep Bertans, What we should effort to get is a 3rd guard who's a legit 3 point shooting threat.

I'm not completely opposed to trading him.

I just haven't liked any of the possible replacements as of yet.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLII 

Post#368 » by NatP4 » Mon Nov 22, 2021 5:43 am

Bertans is a big time weapon when he’s healthy. A much better player than Kuzma and Rui. I’m hanging onto him.

Move any combination of Bryant/Kuzma/Todd for a guard.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLII 

Post#369 » by nate33 » Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:24 pm

NatP4 wrote:Bertans is a big time weapon when he’s healthy. A much better player than Kuzma and Rui. I’m hanging onto him.

Move any combination of Bryant/Kuzma/Todd for a guard.

He is also a one-dimensional player who can't stay on the floor in a playoff game because he can't guard anyone.
And he is paid $16M a year.
And his role can hopefully be replicated by Kispert.

The contract is the big issue. It's going to be real hard to keep this team together after retaining Beal if we're also paying our 7th/8th best player $16M a year.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLII 

Post#370 » by payitforward » Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:25 pm

nate33 wrote:
SUPERBALLMAN wrote:I'd look at a moderate move to bolster our backcourt depth with some vets, and lighten the load in the front court, as well as some improved salary flexibilty.

Bertans for Satoransky & Temple.

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7489299

That trade would be glorious! Satoransky would thrive under Wes Jr. And he'd fit nicely in the rotation alongside Holiday, since Holiday is more of a SG on offense who defends PG's while Sato is more of a PG on offense who defends SG's.

I wish Bertans' contract wasn't so radioactive at the moment. I don't see the Pelicans taking on his salary right now, though their GM has been swindled before. It would even be worth throwing in a 2nd round pick to make that trade happen, but unfortunately, we don't have any 2nds to trade.

As you know, I'm against trading R2 picks. In principle. But... don't we still have a R2 pick coming our way from Chicago? We do have OKC's R2 pick in the 2024 draft.

Note as well that this trade would leave us with 16 players. We'd have to find a way to move someone. Or just cut someone & eat his salary: presumably it would be Gill.

edit: or we would simply send Gill to NO in the deal.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLII 

Post#371 » by Ruzious » Mon Nov 22, 2021 2:08 pm

payitforward wrote:
nate33 wrote:
SUPERBALLMAN wrote:I'd look at a moderate move to bolster our backcourt depth with some vets, and lighten the load in the front court, as well as some improved salary flexibilty.

Bertans for Satoransky & Temple.

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7489299

That trade would be glorious! Satoransky would thrive under Wes Jr. And he'd fit nicely in the rotation alongside Holiday, since Holiday is more of a SG on offense who defends PG's while Sato is more of a PG on offense who defends SG's.

I wish Bertans' contract wasn't so radioactive at the moment. I don't see the Pelicans taking on his salary right now, though their GM has been swindled before. It would even be worth throwing in a 2nd round pick to make that trade happen, but unfortunately, we don't have any 2nds to trade.

As you know, I'm against trading R2 picks. In principle. But... don't we still have a R2 pick coming our way from Chicago? We do have OKC's R2 pick in the 2024 draft.

Note as well that this trade would leave us with 16 players. We'd have to find a way to move someone. Or just cut someone & eat his salary: presumably it would be Gill.

edit: or we would simply send Gill to NO in the deal.

Washington traded away 5 2nd round picks (3 to LAL, 1 to SA, and 1 to Brooklyn) plus a 2nd round swap in 2025 in Brooklyn's favor in the Westbrook trade. I think the pick SA got was the Chicago 2022 pick, and I believe we no longer have either of the picks you mentioned. The next 2nd rounder we have (unless trade(s) are made) will be a "lower of" pick in 2025. We have our own 2nd round pick in 2026 and 2027, but LAL has our 2028 2nd rounder. https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/detailed#:~:text=Future%20Traded%20Pick%20Details%20%20%20%20Team,York%20%20...%20%2015%20more%20rows%20
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLII 

Post#372 » by nate33 » Mon Nov 22, 2021 2:11 pm

Wizardspride wrote:
Dat2U wrote:Needing 3 pt shooting was the first thing I suggested lol. A healthy Bertans would be very beneficial and might make teams 2nd guess throwing a zone against us. If Bertans is going out in a deal, shooting needs to come back in return. Just saying Kispert can fill that role is not enough.

Yeah, and that's why I'm reluctant to trade Davis.

I don't think our 3-point shooting is intrinsically bad. It's only bad because Beal and Kispert are shooting an absolutely atrocious 28% and 26% respectively. If they had shot a merely bad (33% and 35% respectively), the team would have a 3P% of .347, ranking them 14th overall. If they actually shot pretty well (37% and 40% respectively), the team would rank 10th in 3-point shooting.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLII 

Post#373 » by CntOutSmrtCrazy » Mon Nov 22, 2021 2:19 pm

nate33 wrote:
Wizardspride wrote:
Dat2U wrote:Needing 3 pt shooting was the first thing I suggested lol. A healthy Bertans would be very beneficial and might make teams 2nd guess throwing a zone against us. If Bertans is going out in a deal, shooting needs to come back in return. Just saying Kispert can fill that role is not enough.

Yeah, and that's why I'm reluctant to trade Davis.

I don't think our 3-point shooting is intrinsically bad. It's only bad because Beal and Kispert are shooting an absolutely atrocious 28% and 26% respectively. If they had shot a merely bad 33% and 35% respectively, the team would have a 3P% of .347, ranking them 14th overall. If they actually shot pretty well (37% and 40% respectively), the team would rank 10th in 3-point shooting.


Good point. I saw someone mention it in another thread, but basically no one on our team is having anything close to a great 3-point shooting start to the season yet we still are 11-5. Some warming up from players, not only Kispert and Beal, could add to some offensive upside for this team. But yeah that’s 9 threes a game shot by those two at a 27% clip.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLII 

Post#374 » by payitforward » Mon Nov 22, 2021 2:34 pm

nate33 wrote:
NatP4 wrote:Bertans is a big time weapon when he’s healthy. A much better player than Kuzma and Rui. I’m hanging onto him.

Move any combination of Bryant/Kuzma/Todd for a guard.

He is also a one-dimensional player who can't stay on the floor in a playoff game because he can't guard anyone.
And he is paid $16M a year.
And his role can hopefully be replicated by Kispert.

The contract is the big issue. It's going to be real hard to keep this team together after retaining Beal if we're also paying our 7th/8th best player $16M a year.

This last point is the most important one.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLII 

Post#375 » by pcbothwel » Mon Nov 22, 2021 3:23 pm

nate33 wrote:
NatP4 wrote:Bertans is a big time weapon when he’s healthy. A much better player than Kuzma and Rui. I’m hanging onto him.

Move any combination of Bryant/Kuzma/Todd for a guard.

He is also a one-dimensional player who can't stay on the floor in a playoff game because he can't guard anyone.
And he is paid $16M a year.
And his role can hopefully be replicated by Kispert.

The contract is the big issue. It's going to be real hard to keep this team together after retaining Beal if we're also paying our 7th/8th best player $16M a year.


Bertans is equivalent to a relief pitcher/closer in baseball. Limited ceiling due to their narrow skill set (Can only throw 1-2 pitches effectively, stamina, injury, etc.), but when they hit their hot streaks they can absolutely dominate small portions of each game.
These types of players are most valuable at the deadline when they are playing well and another team has a clear deficiency.

Also, Bertans has surprisingly quick feet and if anyone can get him to play passable defense its Wes. The guy I look to move is Kuzma. He's redundant with Rui and Deni and just too inefficient.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLII 

Post#376 » by dckingsfan » Mon Nov 22, 2021 3:37 pm

pcbothwel wrote:
nate33 wrote:
NatP4 wrote:Bertans is a big time weapon when he’s healthy. A much better player than Kuzma and Rui. I’m hanging onto him.

Move any combination of Bryant/Kuzma/Todd for a guard.

He is also a one-dimensional player who can't stay on the floor in a playoff game because he can't guard anyone.
And he is paid $16M a year.
And his role can hopefully be replicated by Kispert.

The contract is the big issue. It's going to be real hard to keep this team together after retaining Beal if we're also paying our 7th/8th best player $16M a year.


Bertans is equivalent to a relief pitcher/closer in baseball. Limited ceiling due to their narrow skill set (Can only throw 1-2 pitches effectively, stamina, injury, etc.), but when they hit their hot streaks they can absolutely dominate small portions of each game.
These types of players are most valuable at the deadline when they are playing well and another team has a clear deficiency.

Also, Bertans has surprisingly quick feet and if anyone can get him to play passable defense its Wes. The guy I look to move is Kuzma. He's redundant with Rui and Deni and just too inefficient.

I would love to do a Kuzma for Hield trade, if Hield made 13M/yr.

I guess that is a if I had ham, I would want a ham&cheese sandwich, if I had cheese kind of statement. But that is the type of player that could help this team on the second unit. Maybe Kispert becomes that guy...
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLII 

Post#377 » by nate33 » Mon Nov 22, 2021 3:45 pm

pcbothwel wrote:The guy I look to move is Kuzma. He's redundant with Rui and Deni and just too inefficient.

Yes, that's a fair point. I still think Bertans at $16M is a worse contract than Kuzma at $13M, so I'd move Bertans first. But if Bertans can't be moved, moving Kuzma is the next best alternative, and probably a lot easier to pull off.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLII 

Post#378 » by nate33 » Mon Nov 22, 2021 3:49 pm

I'm real curious to see how Rui's rebounding numbers look without Westbrook stealing them all. I don't think he can get to Kuzma's 10 rebounds per 36, but maybe he can get to 8.5 or so. (It was just 6.3 last year.)
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLII 

Post#379 » by Frichuela » Mon Nov 22, 2021 4:25 pm

nate33 wrote:
pcbothwel wrote:The guy I look to move is Kuzma. He's redundant with Rui and Deni and just too inefficient.

Yes, that's a fair point. I still think Bertans at $16M is a worse contract than Kuzma at $13M, so I'd move Bertans first. But if Bertans can't be moved, moving Kuzma is the next best alternative, and probably a lot easier to pull off.


In this regard, would we want someone like Coby White? Chicago needs a PF desperately given that Pat Williams is injured all season.

If we think Coby White could be an answer as a third guard, maybe Coby White + D Jones Jr + Portland's 2022 1st (Top 14 protected) for Kuzma + Holiday?

Another option is to try something like Bertans+Todd for Coby White + D Jones Jr. Though here Chicago will likely say no...
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLII 

Post#380 » by Ruzious » Mon Nov 22, 2021 4:45 pm

Frichuela wrote:
nate33 wrote:
pcbothwel wrote:The guy I look to move is Kuzma. He's redundant with Rui and Deni and just too inefficient.

Yes, that's a fair point. I still think Bertans at $16M is a worse contract than Kuzma at $13M, so I'd move Bertans first. But if Bertans can't be moved, moving Kuzma is the next best alternative, and probably a lot easier to pull off.


In this regard, would we want someone like Coby White? Chicago needs a PF desperately given that Pat Williams is injured all season.

If we think Coby White could be an answer as a third guard, maybe Coby White + D Jones Jr + Portland's 2022 1st (Top 14 protected) for Kuzma + Holiday?

Another option is to try something like Bertans+Todd for Coby White + D Jones Jr. Though here Chicago will likely say no...

Yeah, Chicago is 12-5 without a PF. Gotta figure there's an opportunity for the Wiz there. Agreed Chi would likely much prefer Kuzma over Bertans.
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