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Official Trade Thread - Part XLII

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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLII 

Post#441 » by nate33 » Sat Nov 27, 2021 2:02 pm

FAH1223 wrote:Guys, the fact that Ted has green lit the 4 year max $181M extension on October 1 means he will green light the 5 year $235M offer on July 1. It's gonna happen. It is what it is.

You're probably right.

It's a shame. Beal on a max contract for 5 years will guarantee that the team never contends for a title for the
next 5 years. Beal isn't good enough to be the best player on a contending team. And there's no way to put a better player alongside him and pay the rest of the roster when Beal is being paid 35% of the salary cap.

I still hold out a small hope that Sheppard understands that guaranteeing that the team won't compete for the title in the next 5 years isn't a good way to maintain job security. Hopefully, Sheppard will address it one way or another. He'll either convince Ted to agree to a hard line negotiation, or he'll trade Beal. We are talking about the man who traded John Wall in his first summer as GM.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLII 

Post#442 » by NatP4 » Sat Nov 27, 2021 5:46 pm

There’s no chance the wizards don’t hand Beal a blank check, and I’m totally fine with that. We have built the culture around his personality. It’s not all about the on court production with Beal IMO. He’s the face of the franchise.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLII 

Post#443 » by NatP4 » Sat Nov 27, 2021 5:47 pm

Right now, the wiz just need to focus on flipping Holiday and Kuzma for a solid 3rd guard.

Something like Kuzma, Bryant, and Holiday for Josh Hart and Tomas Satoransky would be great.

Sato has had a rough start to the year but he’s a really good player that will get back to his normal self eventually and fits the culture in DC. Even just Kuzma for Sato or Hart would be good for us

I guess NOP makes the move to add some floor spacing bigs next to Zion.

Dinwiddie Sato
Beal Kispert
KCP Hart
Avdija Bertans/Rui
Gafford Harrell
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLII 

Post#444 » by badinage » Sat Nov 27, 2021 7:50 pm

NatP4 wrote:Right now, the wiz just need to focus on flipping Holiday and Kuzma for a solid 3rd guard.

Something like Kuzma, Bryant, and Holiday for Josh Hart and Tomas Satoransky would be great.

Sato has had a rough start to the year but he’s a really good player that will get back to his normal self eventually and fits the culture in DC. Even just Kuzma for Sato or Hart would be good for us

I guess NOP makes the move to add some floor spacing bigs next to Zion.

Dinwiddie Sato
Beal Kispert
KCP Hart
Avdija Bertans/Rui
Gafford Harrell


Wha—?

Kuz’s clutch box-out, rebound and putback won them the game last night.

He’s been a terrific rebounder, third option, and teammate.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLII 

Post#445 » by DCZards » Sat Nov 27, 2021 10:09 pm

badinage wrote:
Wha—?

Kuz’s clutch box-out, rebound and putback won them the game last night.

He’s been a terrific rebounder, third option, and teammate.

Kuz’s passing has been impressive. 14 assists in the last 3 games. He’s done a good job of attacking the basket off the dribble and getting it to a big for an easy hoop.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLII 

Post#446 » by gambitx777 » Sun Nov 28, 2021 12:46 pm

There are teams that could use bertans and have the money and or other contracts to trade for him
I think NO, OKC would be pretty good landing spots for him.

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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLII 

Post#447 » by GoneShammGone » Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:27 pm

gambitx777 wrote:There are teams that could use bertans and have the money and or other contracts to trade for him
I think NO, OKC would be pretty good landing spots for him.

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But that assumes that Bertans plays enough, and well enough, to build back some value. Right now---why would anyone trade for him? I think we would need to include an significant asset to get rid of him.

Logic behind shopping Kuz is that he has actually been playing well! He might actually bring back a decent return. Plus with Rui and Kispert, we have young guys that we expect fill in the gap.

I guess it comes down to this: do you see Kuzma as a long-term piece on this team? I tend to think not. I like what he's done, but I don't see him getting better from here.

Anyway, good news is that it isn't a crisis. With the way the team is playing there's no reason to do anything at the moment!
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLII 

Post#448 » by nate33 » Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:51 pm

GoneShammGone wrote:Anyway, good news is that it isn't a crisis. With the way the team is playing there's no reason to do anything at the moment!

This.

There are too many unknowns to commit to a trade right now. We don't know what Rui and Bryant will look like. And we don't know if Bertans can shake out of this horrific slump. So it's risky to make a move now.

Obviously, we have a surplus of forwards (and centers) and are in need of a good 3rd guard, so we should keep an eye out for a trade opportunity to balance our roster. But there's no rush. It can happen in February before the Trade Deadline. Ideally, we find someone who is desperate to add a forward so that the talent mismatch is slightly in our favor. You can't force those deals to happen just because you want them. It requires patience and the willingness to exploit a desperate team in a weak negotiating position.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLII 

Post#449 » by payitforward » Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:50 pm

Absolutely! Other than being open & opportunistic should the phone ring it's hard to see any obviously advantageous trades right now.

I'd love to see Ayayi get some burn. Who knows... maybe he could be that "good 3d guard?"
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLII 

Post#450 » by gambitx777 » Sun Nov 28, 2021 10:25 pm

GoneShammGone wrote:
gambitx777 wrote:There are teams that could use bertans and have the money and or other contracts to trade for him
I think NO, OKC would be pretty good landing spots for him.

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But that assumes that Bertans plays enough, and well enough, to build back some value. Right now---why would anyone trade for him? I think we would need to include an significant asset to get rid of him.

Logic behind shopping Kuz is that he has actually been playing well! He might actually bring back a decent return. Plus with Rui and Kispert, we have young guys that we expect fill in the gap.

I guess it comes down to this: do you see Kuzma as a long-term piece on this team? I tend to think not. I like what he's done, but I don't see him getting better from here.

Anyway, good news is that it isn't a crisis. With the way the team is playing there's no reason to do anything at the moment!
OKC is in the rehab for assets business, an elite shooter in a slump like bertans is someone they would absolutely be interested in. On top of that they have a pretty sizable lack of true shooting wings on that team and having bertans get lots of minutes there to rehab and flip is a good idea for them cuz his contract gets better every year. No freeagenst are gonna go there, shooters are always valuable no matter what and they have the time and are 30 plus mill under the tax.



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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLII 

Post#451 » by nate33 » Sun Nov 28, 2021 10:47 pm

gambitx777 wrote:
GoneShammGone wrote:
gambitx777 wrote:There are teams that could use bertans and have the money and or other contracts to trade for him
I think NO, OKC would be pretty good landing spots for him.

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using RealGM mobile app


But that assumes that Bertans plays enough, and well enough, to build back some value. Right now---why would anyone trade for him? I think we would need to include an significant asset to get rid of him.

Logic behind shopping Kuz is that he has actually been playing well! He might actually bring back a decent return. Plus with Rui and Kispert, we have young guys that we expect fill in the gap.

I guess it comes down to this: do you see Kuzma as a long-term piece on this team? I tend to think not. I like what he's done, but I don't see him getting better from here.

Anyway, good news is that it isn't a crisis. With the way the team is playing there's no reason to do anything at the moment!
OKC is in the rehab for assets business, an elite shooter in a slump like bertans is someone they would absolutely be interested in. On top of that they have a pretty sizable lack of true shooting wings on that team and having bertans get lots of minutes there to rehab and flip is a good idea for them cuz his contract gets better every year. No freeagenst are gonna go there, shooters are always valuable no matter what and they have the time and are 30 plus mill under the tax.



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You couldn't be more wrong. OKC does not exist to correct the mistakes of other teams. There is no chance they would simply absorb Bertans. They would definitely insist on a 1st round pick, if not two. That's the way Sam Presti does business.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLII 

Post#452 » by gambitx777 » Mon Nov 29, 2021 1:09 pm

nate33 wrote:
gambitx777 wrote:
GoneShammGone wrote:
But that assumes that Bertans plays enough, and well enough, to build back some value. Right now---why would anyone trade for him? I think we would need to include an significant asset to get rid of him.

Logic behind shopping Kuz is that he has actually been playing well! He might actually bring back a decent return. Plus with Rui and Kispert, we have young guys that we expect fill in the gap.

I guess it comes down to this: do you see Kuzma as a long-term piece on this team? I tend to think not. I like what he's done, but I don't see him getting better from here.

Anyway, good news is that it isn't a crisis. With the way the team is playing there's no reason to do anything at the moment!
OKC is in the rehab for assets business, an elite shooter in a slump like bertans is someone they would absolutely be interested in. On top of that they have a pretty sizable lack of true shooting wings on that team and having bertans get lots of minutes there to rehab and flip is a good idea for them cuz his contract gets better every year. No freeagenst are gonna go there, shooters are always valuable no matter what and they have the time and are 30 plus mill under the tax.



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You couldn't be more wrong. OKC does not exist to correct the mistakes of other teams. There is no chance they would simply absorb Bertans. They would definitely insist on a 1st round pick, if not two. That's the way Sam Presti does business.
I'm not saying for nothing but I'm saying it's not as impossibly as you might think. A lot of things go into trade.

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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLII 

Post#453 » by Frichuela » Mon Nov 29, 2021 2:28 pm

Realistically the only way we could trade Bertans is after a solid +10 games when he is shooting +40% from 3
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLII 

Post#454 » by pcbothwel » Mon Nov 29, 2021 2:28 pm

Bertans is a negative asset on a long contract. There is no reason for DC to trade him as it will require them to get worse in doing so.
We arent over the tax and there is no superstar trade on the horizon. So hang on to Bertans and hope he goes on a hot streak.

Like Brad, their regression really has no precedent. Healthy and active with over 1,600 3PA @ 40% doesnt simply fall off like this. Even if he finished the year in the 36-37% range on his 3's, he would be finishing out the season in the 42-43% range.

Again, just like with Brad. We are 13-7 and both players will improve considerably to even get CLOSE to their 3 & 5 year career averages. So assuming both guys are healthy and focused, double down now while their value is low.

Bertans routinely shoots 32-34% for 15-20 games, before shooting 45-50% for 10-15 games on extremely high volume.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLII 

Post#455 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Mon Nov 29, 2021 3:49 pm

FAH1223 wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
nate33 wrote:I'm really curious if Sheppard will actually give Beal the supermax. Beal is not in the Steph Curry/James Harden tier. He is in the Khris Middleton/Klay Thompson/Kyrie Irving tier. Sheppard can just say: "Here's $40M a year. It's what Anthony Davis, Khris Middleton and Rudy Gobert make, and it's more than anyone else can pay you, except maybe Detroit, Orlando or San Antonio. This is the most we can afford to pay you while keeping a good team around you. Take it or leave it."

$40M a year is not some kind of insult. I'd also frontload it with declining pay after that (or maybe flat pay). The Wizards have the luxtax room next year to pay him the full max, but after that, things get dicey. So something like $44.5M, $41.5M, $38.5M, $35.5M

Of course, that negotiation is easier to make if Beal posts his worst season in years like he has been doing so far. If he picks it up and starts looking like peak Beal, it may not be so easy.
I will bet you the supermax that Bradley Beal does not get the supermax from the Wizards


Guys, the fact that Ted has green lit the 4 year max $181M extension on October 1 means he will green light the 5 year $235M offer on July 1. It's gonna happen. It is what it is.
I refuse to accept that as truth just yet.

You could be right but I don't want to see it come to pass.
After the Wizards GM really went and did it by having an imaginative, strong, draft day. I totally feel this as well;

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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLII 

Post#456 » by payitforward » Mon Nov 29, 2021 9:48 pm

nate33 wrote:
gambitx777 wrote:
GoneShammGone wrote:
But that assumes that Bertans plays enough, and well enough, to build back some value. Right now---why would anyone trade for him? I think we would need to include an significant asset to get rid of him.

Logic behind shopping Kuz is that he has actually been playing well! He might actually bring back a decent return. Plus with Rui and Kispert, we have young guys that we expect fill in the gap.

I guess it comes down to this: do you see Kuzma as a long-term piece on this team? I tend to think not. I like what he's done, but I don't see him getting better from here.

Anyway, good news is that it isn't a crisis. With the way the team is playing there's no reason to do anything at the moment!
OKC is in the rehab for assets business, an elite shooter in a slump like bertans is someone they would absolutely be interested in. On top of that they have a pretty sizable lack of true shooting wings on that team and having bertans get lots of minutes there to rehab and flip is a good idea for them cuz his contract gets better every year. No freeagenst are gonna go there, shooters are always valuable no matter what and they have the time and are 30 plus mill under the tax.

You couldn't be more wrong. OKC does not exist to correct the mistakes of other teams. There is no chance they would simply absorb Bertans. They would definitely insist on a 1st round pick, if not two. That's the way Sam Presti does business.

LOL....
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLII 

Post#457 » by Ruzious » Mon Nov 29, 2021 9:58 pm

Hey, OKC only has about 25 draft pick acquisitions still outstanding (though some are actually pick swaps):

2022 first round draft pick from Detroit
Detroit's 1st round pick to Oklahoma City (via Houston) protected for selections 1-16 in 2022, 1-18 in 2023, 1-18 in 2024, 1-13 in 2025, 1-11 in 2026 and 1-9 in 2027; if Detroit has not conveyed a 1st round pick to Oklahoma City by 2027, then Detroit will instead convey its 2027 2nd round pick to Oklahoma City [Detroit-Houston, 11/24/2020; Houston-Oklahoma City, 7/30/2021]

2022 first round draft pick from L.A. Clippers
L.A. Clippers' 2022 1st round pick to Oklahoma City [L.A. Clippers-Oklahoma City, 7/10/2019]

2022 first round draft pick from Phoenix
Phoenix's 1st round pick to Oklahoma City protected for selections 1-12 in 2022, 1-10 in 2023 and 1-8 in 2024 and unprotected in 2025 [Oklahoma City-Phoenix, 11/16/2020]

2023 first round draft pick from Denver
Denver's 1st round pick to Oklahoma City protected for selections 1-14 in 2023, 1-14 in 2024 and 1-14 in 2025; if Denver has not conveyed a 1st round pick to Oklahoma City by 2025, then Denver will instead convey its 2025 2nd round pick and 2026 2nd round pick to Oklahoma City [Denver-Milwaukee-New Orleans-Oklahoma City, 11/23/2020]

2023 first round draft pick from L.A. Clippers (swap, Oklahoma City outgoing)
Oklahoma City has the right to swap its 2023 1st round pick for the L.A. Clippers' 2023 1st round pick [L.A. Clippers-Oklahoma City, 7/10/2019]

2023 first round draft pick from Miami
Miami's 1st round pick to Oklahoma City (via L.A. Clippers) protected for selections 1-14 in 2023, 1-14 in 2024 and 1-14 in 2025 and unprotected in 2026 [L.A. Clippers-Miami, 7/6/2019; L.A. Clippers-Oklahoma City, 7/10/2019]

2023 first round draft pick from Washington
Washington's 1st round pick to Oklahoma City (via Houston) protected for selections 1-14 in 2023, 1-12 in 2024, 1-10 in 2025 and 1-8 in 2026; if Washington has not conveyed a 1st round pick to Oklahoma City by 2026, then Washington will instead convey its 2026 2nd round pick and 2027 2nd round pick to Oklahoma City [Houston-Washington, 12/2/2020; Houston-Oklahoma City, 7/30/2021]

2023 second round draft pick from Dallas or Miami (more favorable)
Oklahoma City will receive the more favorable of Dallas' 2023 2nd round pick and Miami's 2023 2nd round pick (Oklahoma City may convey this pick to New York (see Oklahoma City Outgoing)); Boston will receive the more favorable of (i) Houston's 2023 2nd round pick protected for selections 31-32 and (ii) the less favorable of the Dallas pick and the Miami pick and Indiana will receive the least favorable of the three (via Miami to Dallas; via Memphis' right to swap Dallas or Miami for Houston); if the Houston pick falls within its protected range, then Houston's obligation to Boston will be extinguished and Boston will instead receive the less favorable of the Dallas pick and the Miami pick and Indiana will instead receive the Houston pick [Dallas-Miami, 7/7/2017; Dallas-Memphis, 7/8/2019; Houston-Memphis, 2/6/2020; Boston-Memphis-Portland, 11/20/2020; Dallas-Detroit-Oklahoma City, 11/27/2020; Brooklyn-Cleveland-Houston-Indiana, 1/16/2021]

2023 second round draft pick from Washington
Washington's 2023 2nd round pick to Oklahoma City (via New Orleans) [New Orleans-Washington, 2/7/2019; Denver-Milwaukee-New Orleans-Oklahoma City, 11/23/2020]; Oklahoma City may convey this pick to New York (see Oklahoma City Outgoing)

2024 first round draft pick from Houston
Houston's 2024 1st round pick to Oklahoma City protected for selections 1-4; if this pick falls within its protected range and is therefore not conveyed, then Houston will instead convey its 2024 2nd round pick and 2025 2nd round pick to Oklahoma City [Houston-Oklahoma City, 7/16/2019]

2024 first round draft pick from L.A. Clippers
L.A. Clippers' 2024 1st round pick to Oklahoma City [L.A. Clippers-Oklahoma City, 7/10/2019]

2024 first round draft pick from Utah
Utah's 1st round pick to Oklahoma City protected for selections 1-10 in 2024 (conveyable if Utah conveys a 1st round pick to Memphis in 2022), 1-10 in 2025 (conveyable if Utah has conveyed a 1st round pick to Memphis by 2023) and 1-8 in 2026; if Utah has not conveyed a 1st round pick to Oklahoma City by 2026, then Utah will instead convey its 2028 2nd round pick to Oklahoma City [Oklahoma City-Utah, 7/30/2021]

2024 second round draft pick from Charlotte
Charlotte's 2024 2nd round pick to Oklahoma City (via New Orleans) [Charlotte-New Orleans, 11/19/2020; Denver-Milwaukee-New Orleans-Oklahoma City, 11/23/2020]

2024 second round draft pick from Minnesota
Minnesota's 2024 2nd round pick to Oklahoma City [Minnesota-New York-Oklahoma City, 11/20/2020]

2025 first round draft pick from Houston or L.A. Clippers (swap, Oklahoma City outgoing to Houston, L.A. Clippers or Brooklyn)
Oklahoma City has the right to swap its 2025 1st round pick for Houston's 2025 1st round pick protected for selections 1-10 or the L.A. Clippers' 2025 1st round pick; Houston then has the right to swap its pick or the Oklahoma City pick for Brooklyn's 2025 1st round pick; if the Houston pick falls within its protected range, then Houston's obligation to Oklahoma City will be extinguished and Houston will instead receive the more favorable of its pick and the Brooklyn pick and Brooklyn will receive the less favorable of the two [L.A. Clippers-Oklahoma City, 7/10/2019; Houston-Oklahoma City, 7/16/2019; Brooklyn-Cleveland-Houston-Indiana, 1/16/2021]

2025 first round draft pick from Philadelphia
Philadelphia's 1st round pick to Oklahoma City protected for selections 1-6 in 2025, 1-4 in 2026 and 1-4 in 2027; if Philadelphia has not conveyed a 1st round pick to Oklahoma City by 2027, then Philadelphia will instead convey its 2027 2nd round pick to Oklahoma City [Philadelphia-Oklahoma City, 12/8/2020]

2025 second round draft pick from Atlanta
Atlanta's 2025 2nd round pick to Oklahoma City protected for selections 31-55 (if this pick falls within its protected range and is therefore not conveyed, then Atlanta's obligation to Oklahoma City will be extinguished) [Atlanta-Oklahoma City, 11/24/2020]

2025 second round draft pick from Boston or Memphis (more favorable)
Oklahoma City will receive the more favorable of Boston's 2025 2nd round pick and Memphis' 2025 2nd round pick and Orlando will receive the less favorable of the two (via Memphis to Boston) [Boston-Memphis-Portland, 11/20/2020; Boston-Orlando, 3/25/2021; Boston-Oklahoma City, 6/18/2021]

2025 second round draft pick from Philadelphia
Philadelphia's 2025 2nd round pick to Oklahoma City [New York-Oklahoma City-Philadelphia, 3/25/2021]

2026 first round draft pick from Houston
Houston's 2026 1st round pick to Oklahoma City protected for selections 1-4; if this pick falls within its protected range and is therefore not conveyed, then Houston will instead convey its 2026 2nd round pick to Oklahoma City [Houston-Oklahoma City, 7/16/2019]

2026 first round draft pick from L.A. Clippers
L.A. Clippers' 2026 1st round pick to Oklahoma City [L.A. Clippers-Oklahoma City, 7/10/2019]

2026 second round draft pick from Dallas
Dallas' 2026 2nd round pick to Oklahoma City [Dallas-Detroit-Oklahoma City, 11/27/2020]

2026 second round draft pick from Philadelphia
Philadelphia's 2026 2nd round pick to Oklahoma City [New York-Oklahoma City-Philadelphia, 3/25/2021]

2027 second round draft picks from Houston, Indiana and/or Miami (three most favorable of these and Oklahoma City, Oklahoma City outgoing to Utah)
Oklahoma City will receive the three most favorable of its 2027 2nd round pick, Houston's 2027 2nd round pick, Indiana's 2027 2nd round pick and Miami's 2027 2nd round pick and Utah will receive the least favorable of the four (via Houston to Detroit to Oklahoma City) [Detroit-Houston, 11/24/2020; Detroit-Oklahoma City, 3/13/2021; Indiana-Oklahoma City, 11/25/2020; Miami-Oklahoma City, 3/17/2021; Oklahoma City-Utah, 7/30/2021]
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLII 

Post#458 » by payitforward » Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:10 pm

Unbelievable....
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLII 

Post#459 » by Ruzious » Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:26 pm

payitforward wrote:Unbelievable....


And they'll probably get more. :jawdrop:
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLII 

Post#460 » by nate33 » Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:56 pm

At some point, the sheer quantity of OKC picks, coupled with the practical limits on roster size and capacity for player development, is going to force OKC to make some quantity for quality pick trades where they'll probably have to give up more than fair value. Ideally, we are at the other end of such a trade.

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