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Is there still room for Rui on this team?

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Re: Is there still room for Rui on this team? 

Post#41 » by payitforward » Wed Nov 24, 2021 3:22 am

ruffian253 wrote:
payitforward wrote:This is really a funny thread. I've never seen a Wizard get the deluxe treatment from fans on this board that Rui gets!

Here's a fact: Rui was not a very good rookie. Not at all. Not horrible for a rookie -- but definitely not good.
Here's another fact: Rui was worse -- not better -- his second year as compared to his rookie year.

Did he improve in some things? Of course he did! But he got worse in others. Overall, his productivity dropped.

Can people have different opinions about the above? People can think whatever they want; no one can stop them.

But, how Rui played as a rookie & how he played his second year are both in the numbers. So, if the numbers say something got a little better, that's good. & if they say something else got worse, that's bad. & you have to look at both cases -- not just the one you like. Both.

Has Rui ever had a good game? Sure he has!
Has Rui ever had a series of good games? Once in a while he's had a stretch of 2-3 games in a row that were good. & once in a while he has had a longer stretch in which a few of them were good.

How about a bad game? Has Rui ever had one of those? Sure he has!
A series of bad games? Uh huh, he has.

Is Rui a good NBA player? No, he's not. He's not close to being a good player. Why? Because, overall, he doesn't put up good numbers, & that's how you know if a player should be called "good."

How about "average" -- is he average? No, he's not, & he's not close to average either. Why? Because, overall, he doesn't put up average numbers, & that's how you know if a player should be called "average."

Can Rui become a good player? Of course he can! But... he doesn't have forever to do it. No player does.

Why don't we hope for the best & wait to see how he does? Is that really asking too much?


What is considered good numbers on a bad coached team where you have the two biggest "gotta-get-mine" players in Beal and RW?...

Are you saying that if he comes back & posts good numbers then that will mean he's become a better player?

If so, you bet! That's exactly what it will mean.

ruffian253 wrote:...Over the last 2 years, the entire 4th quarter was BB playing hero ball, at least at RW tried to get Rui involved at times. At least this year, there is resemblance of a team offense, so saying Rui is not a good NBA player is not really valid or fair based on pure numbers from last 2 seasons....

Sigh.... In 2019-20, to take a single example of many, Thomas Bryant was a good NBA player. He put up really good numbers. The year before (i.e. his first year with us), he was even better. I.e. he put up even better numbers. We had the same crappy coach those 2 years as we did last year.

This year, Brad is not as good as he was last year -- I assume that's not something you'd disagree with. But, we have a better coach this year. & a better record too.

ruffian253 wrote:...Yes, he can be inconsistent, but once he has a more defined role and the sets are played to his strengths, he will be much better....

Neither you nor I can have any idea whatever of how good a player Rui will be this season. If, OTOH, what you're saying is that you hope the above is true -- you hope Rui "will be much better" -- then you & I hope the very same thing.

ruffian253 wrote:...and the hope is that Wes can unlock that as opposed to Rui running to the Corner and just being a catch and shoot player from the corner. For some reason, Rui does gets high praises from teammates and players from around the league,

?? He was never "a catch and shoot player from the corner." As to how Rui is viewed around the league, that's something about which you have no way of knowing anything at all. People say nice things about young players, as they should. Moreover, nobody questions that Rui has the size & athleticism he needs. Not to mention hands as big as baseball gloves!

When Rui is actually good, he will actually be good. Then, when we talk about Rui in the present tense, the present tense then, we can say that he is actually good. Until then, if we say that he is actually good -- now -- or that he has been actually good so far, what we say is:

1. untrue -- he isn't & he hasn't been.
2. unhelpful -- it doesn't make him better or help him get better
3. pointless -- it doesn't help anyone to understand Rui, and
4. destructive -- it makes people think about things unrelated to excellence in basketball.

Why don't we just tell the truth? Why don't we just say that we don't know how good Rui will be, but we hope he'll be real good. Then we can wait & see. & either he will be or he won't be. Up to now, he hasn't been. Which doesn't mean he hasn't had some good games.
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Re: Is there still room for Rui on this team? 

Post#42 » by dlts20 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 4:26 am

I still rather have Rui than Kuz
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Re: Is there still room for Rui on this team? 

Post#43 » by pancakes3 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:32 pm

nah, Kuz is by far the better player.
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Re: Is there still room for Rui on this team? 

Post#44 » by nate33 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:22 pm

pancakes3 wrote:nah, Kuz is by far the better player.

Kuzma this year is a bit better than Hachimura last year. But given their relative ages, it wouldn't surprise me if Hachimura can catch Kuzma and pull ahead. In many ways they're similar in that they're both tall and athletic, neither are particularly efficient as off-ball catch-and-shoot players, and they both have some on-ball shot creation ability, albeit at an efficiency that's too low for it to be useful other than as a bail out shot. Kuzma appears to have better basketball instincts, but Hachimura is the better athlete, which gives him a higher theoretical upside. We see Kuzma's basketball instincts come into play with the way he rebounds. And we see Hachimura's athleticism in the way he defends on ball.

I'd like to know how much Hachimura has worked on his game this offseason. He probably hasn't done much this past month, but prior to that, was he in the lab, working and improving? If he just improves his 3-point shot a bit, and is willing to launch them quickly upon receipt of a kick-out pass, it will really go a long way to improving his offensive efficiency.
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Re: Is there still room for Rui on this team? 

Post#45 » by queridiculo » Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:17 pm

nate33 wrote:
pancakes3 wrote:nah, Kuz is by far the better player.

Kuzma this year is a bit better than Hachimura last year. But given their relative ages, it wouldn't surprise me if Hachimura can catch Kuzma and pull ahead. In many ways they're similar in that they're both tall and athletic, neither are particularly efficient as off-ball catch-and-shoot players, and they both have some on-ball shot creation ability, albeit at an efficiency that's too low for it to be useful other than as a bail out shot. Kuzma appears to have better basketball instincts, but Hachimura is the better athlete, which gives him a higher theoretical upside. We see Kuzma's basketball instincts come into play with the way he rebounds. And we see Hachimura's athleticism in the way he defends on ball.

I'd like to know how much Hachimura has worked on his game this offseason. He probably hasn't done much this past month, but prior to that, was he in the lab, working and improving? If he just improves his 3-point shot a bit, and is willing to launch them quickly upon receipt of a kick-out pass, it will really go a long way to improving his offensive efficiency.


I am not even sure if Hach is the better athlete, Kuzma looks a bit awkward, but he's got more burst and more ups than Hach by a decent margin.

Rui does however bring a physicality to the game that Kuz is lacking and he plays more a under control and deliberate brand of basketball.

I am still not convince that's it's an either or proposition with the two.

I can't wait to see whether our two tweener forwards can share the floor together playing alongside Beal, Dinwiddie and either Gafford or Harrell.

I'd like to see KCP swallow up more of Neto and Holiday's minutes playing as a two guard alongside either Dinwiddie or Beal and backup the SF spot.
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Re: Is there still room for Rui on this team? 

Post#46 » by nate33 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:23 pm

queridiculo wrote:
nate33 wrote:
pancakes3 wrote:nah, Kuz is by far the better player.

Kuzma this year is a bit better than Hachimura last year. But given their relative ages, it wouldn't surprise me if Hachimura can catch Kuzma and pull ahead. In many ways they're similar in that they're both tall and athletic, neither are particularly efficient as off-ball catch-and-shoot players, and they both have some on-ball shot creation ability, albeit at an efficiency that's too low for it to be useful other than as a bail out shot. Kuzma appears to have better basketball instincts, but Hachimura is the better athlete, which gives him a higher theoretical upside. We see Kuzma's basketball instincts come into play with the way he rebounds. And we see Hachimura's athleticism in the way he defends on ball.

I'd like to know how much Hachimura has worked on his game this offseason. He probably hasn't done much this past month, but prior to that, was he in the lab, working and improving? If he just improves his 3-point shot a bit, and is willing to launch them quickly upon receipt of a kick-out pass, it will really go a long way to improving his offensive efficiency.


I am not even sure if Hach is the better athlete, Kuzma looks a bit awkward, but he's got more burst and more ups than Hach by a decent margin.

Rui does however bring a physicality to the game that Kuz is lacking and he plays more a under control and deliberate brand of basketball.

I am still not convince that's it's an either or proposition with the two.

I can't wait to see whether our two tweener forwards can share the floor together playing alongside Beal, Dinwiddie and either Gafford or Harrell.

I'd like to see KCP swallow up more of Neto and Holiday's minutes playing as a two guard alongside either Dinwiddie or Beal and backup the SF spot.

I think Hachimura's superior lateral agility and superior base strength constitute a real advantage in "athleticism". Kuzma may jump as high, or a bit higher, but that's about it.

I kinda think it's either or because I think KCP's skillset as a knockdown shooter and reliable perimeter defender is more useful at SF than either Kuzma or Hachimura playing as a tweener in that role.
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Re: Is there still room for Rui on this team? 

Post#47 » by payitforward » Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:17 pm

By & large, the advantage of his athleticism is theoretical. But, maybe not altogether:

Rui's rookie year was a bit better than Kuzma's. &, even though he actually declined rather than improving in his 2d year, he was better than Kuzma was in his 2d season (obviously, Kuzma declined even more -- & his 3d year was even a little bit worse than his 2d).

But, last year & even this year, when so far he's declined a little from last year, Kuzma has been better than Rui was in either of his first 2 years. Yet there is little point to that part of the comparison, since we're talking about Kyle's 4th & 5th years -- we have no idea how Rui will be playing a year or 2 from now.

Most important, IMO, is that neither of these guys has had a genuinely good season in his career, where "good" means producing numbers that are average or above. Obviously, Kuzma has had 5 years & Rui only 2 -- so that fact is more damning in his case than for the younger player.

Maybe Rui's superior athleticism will pay dividends this year & onwards.
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Re: Is there still room for Rui on this team? 

Post#48 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:43 am

There is no room at the end like Jesus he must be sacrificed...

That was just bull there is
After the Wizards GM really went and did it by having an imaginative, strong, draft day. I totally feel this as well;

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Re: Is there still room for Rui on this team? 

Post#49 » by payitforward » Thu Nov 25, 2021 7:40 pm

nate33 wrote:
pancakes3 wrote:nah, Kuz is by far the better player.

Kuzma this year is a bit better than Hachimura last year. But given their relative ages, it wouldn't surprise me if Hachimura can catch Kuzma and pull ahead. In many ways they're similar in that they're both tall and athletic, neither are particularly efficient as off-ball catch-and-shoot players, and they both have some on-ball shot creation ability, albeit at an efficiency that's too low for it to be useful other than as a bail out shot. Kuzma appears to have better basketball instincts, but Hachimura is the better athlete, which gives him a higher theoretical upside. We see Kuzma's basketball instincts come into play with the way he rebounds. And we see Hachimura's athleticism in the way he defends on ball.

I'd like to know how much Hachimura has worked on his game this offseason. He probably hasn't done much this past month, but prior to that, was he in the lab, working and improving? If he just improves his 3-point shot a bit, and is willing to launch them quickly upon receipt of a kick-out pass, it will really go a long way to improving his offensive efficiency.

I'd say Kuzma this year is a lot better than Rui last year -- not "a bit better" but a whole lot better! But, it's still an unfair comparison for the reasons you point out.

In fact, Rui was a better rookie than Kuzma was. & his 2d year was better than Kuzma's 2d year as well. Then Kyle was even worse his 3d year.

But, Kuzma improved a lot -- a whole lot! -- his 4th year in the league, i.e. last year. That's what we want for Rui -- except we want it this year, his 3d, not 4th, year in the league.
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