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GT #41: SuperSonics @ Bullets 7 PM (NBCSW/980 AM) [1/11/22]

Moderators: montestewart, nate33, LyricalRico

How much do the Bullets lose by?

Sonics by 1-5
1
33%
Sonics by 5-10
0
No votes
Sonics by 11+
2
67%
 
Total votes: 3

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Re: GT #41: SuperSonics @ Bullets 7 PM (NBCSW/980 AM) [1/11/22] 

Post#101 » by tontoz » Wed Jan 12, 2022 2:10 pm

80sballboy wrote:
Ruzious wrote:
CntOutSmrtCrazy wrote:Dinwiddie, WHY take that shot?

That step-back 3 from probably 25 feet. Not even close. Ya can't make awful decisions like that down the stretch of a close game.


I really don't know what he does well. He doesn't make the greatest decisions. The lob pass to Gaffrord? He'll sometimes throw it with two men around him and he'll somehow catch it. Floater? Meh. Jump shot? Not great. Can get to the cup sometimes. Defense? Has length but gets beaten off the dribble a lot. To me, he's become a good third guard. Maybe it's the two ACLs that have slowed him down.



Pretty hard to be a fan of Spencer right now. Seems like the only time he is fully engaged in the game is when he is griping to the refs.
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Re: GT #41: SuperSonics @ Bullets 7 PM (NBCSW/980 AM) [1/11/22] 

Post#102 » by CntOutSmrtCrazy » Wed Jan 12, 2022 2:56 pm

tontoz wrote:
80sballboy wrote:
Ruzious wrote:That step-back 3 from probably 25 feet. Not even close. Ya can't make awful decisions like that down the stretch of a close game.


I really don't know what he does well. He doesn't make the greatest decisions. The lob pass to Gaffrord? He'll sometimes throw it with two men around him and he'll somehow catch it. Floater? Meh. Jump shot? Not great. Can get to the cup sometimes. Defense? Has length but gets beaten off the dribble a lot. To me, he's become a good third guard. Maybe it's the two ACLs that have slowed him down.



Pretty hard to be a fan of Spencer right now. Seems like the only time he is fully engaged in the game is when he is griping to the refs.


Let’s face it, it’s essentially impossible at this point, based on his Wizards tenure, to like Dinwiddie. The options of why are abundant as well providing reasons du jour whether style or play or attitude related.

Style of play wise the usual is a low energy, plodding point guard who does nothing really well, certainly nothing we’ll consistently. A lot of long periods of disappearing, pounding the air out of the ball and taking forever to get into sets, as well as tossing up of junk shots that went in at a decent clip during a handful of games that are otherwise garbage plays that hurt the defense. Speaking of defense, he in my opinion is a one of the larger reasons why we’ve become so abysmal there. Constantly looking like a rookie on switches and screens… actually I don’t think the rookie comparison is quite apt, it’s more to the point that he just doesn’t seem to care to give a modicum of effort. He floats around on defense, gets caught ball watching, and is easily beaten off the dribble. I suppose he is okay at passing without turning over too much, but likely in part due to his mechanical, methodical (not in the good sense of the word) play.

Attitude related, we see it every game and have heard the thinly guised reasoning to why he plays the way he plays. But low effort, energy, and want are mainstays. The bitching to refs has increased, the sulky mannerism, are quite Beal like without the production or tenure. This was supposed to be a smart, heady guy we were getting and I’m just not seeing it. Not saying he isn’t, but he’s certainly not giving it for this team.

IMO, and this is a sidebar that I’ll probably have some here vehemently disagree with me about and call me dumb or whatever, but I think it’s a pretty big red flag to be as involved in crypto as he is, and I think it reflects itself in other areas of his mentality. I say this because I’ve seen how many others act, talk, and think when they are heavily involved in crypto and it’s not the most reasonable crowd.
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Re: GT #41: SuperSonics @ Bullets 7 PM (NBCSW/980 AM) [1/11/22] 

Post#103 » by payitforward » Wed Jan 12, 2022 3:58 pm

Dang, you guys are being awfully ungrateful after a win.

Dinwiddie posted 22 points on a .608 TS%. 10 assists with 2 steals & zero turnovers. He had a terrific game -- better, for example, than Shai Gilgeous-Alexander (who also had a terrific game -- just not as good as Spencer's outing.

You'd think the first 45 minutes of a 48-minute game had no effect on anything.

This was an exciting game to watch. OKC has an exceptional amount of young talent. The guy who had the best game for them last night, on a per-minute basis, was Bazley. Giddey is a tremendous young player as well.
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Re: GT #41: SuperSonics @ Bullets 7 PM (NBCSW/980 AM) [1/11/22] 

Post#104 » by dobrojim » Wed Jan 12, 2022 4:02 pm

9 and 20 wrote:Deni and Rui looking like young Jared Jeffries and young Kwame. 2 beasts at forward, ready to lead this team. Now we just need that vet leader to put us over the top.


Was thinking about this while watching the game (in delay) last night.
Deni had been struggling with his shot lately and his D has been getting tested.
Rui looked decent considering it's his second game. The reverse dunk was nice.
But this young pair, assuming continued development, could look quite good for
us down the road.

I also like Kispert. He's progressing reasonably well. He makes the thought of trading Beal more palatable
assuming we get a nice package back. I should say I don't necessarily want to trade Beal
but the reality is it may be better for us to make a deal. A Westbrook type deal would be great.

Not sure what to make of the KCP-Trez scuffle. What's important is what happens on the court.
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Re: GT #41: SuperSonics @ Bullets 7 PM (NBCSW/980 AM) [1/11/22] 

Post#105 » by payitforward » Wed Jan 12, 2022 4:29 pm

CntOutSmrtCrazy wrote:...IMO, and this is a sidebar that I’ll probably have some here vehemently disagree with me about and call me dumb or whatever, but I think it’s a pretty big red flag to be as involved in crypto as he is, and I think it reflects itself in other areas of his mentality. I say this because I’ve seen how many others act, talk, and think when they are heavily involved in crypto and it’s not the most reasonable crowd.

There's no need for vehemence & no reason to call you dumb. But, you're wrong about crypto -- i.e. wrong in principle &, as far as I am able to tell about Dinwiddie, you seem wrong about him on this subject as well.

Anyone here should feel free to tell me I don't know anything about basketball. But, I spent 20+ years as an entrepreneur in new technology spaces. Crypto is a manifestation of something called "blockchain" technology -- which I'm not going to attempt to explain here: there are plenty of sources online. It's real & looks to have transformative power.

I have a number of friends who are heavily involved in crypto; none of them exhibit any "act, talk, and think" problems that are "not... reasonable." I'm not involved myself, but that's only because I'm not at the financial accumulation stage of life.

Given the terms of your description (emotional not analytical), if you asked me for advice on the subject (but you haven't...) I'd suggest you stay away from it (...& so I'm not making that or any other suggestion). From investing in it, I mean. If you felt like learning more about it... why not? Learning is always a good thing.

As to Dinwiddie, everything he says on the subject -- that I've come across of, at least -- seems reasonable. Now... you may have read something that I'm not aware of.

His play last night didn't have anything to do w/ crypto, obviously! & how anyone can think 22 points in 34 minutes on .608 efficiency, along with 10 assists, 2 steals & zero turnovers is anything other than an outstanding effort beats me.
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Re: GT #41: SuperSonics @ Bullets 7 PM (NBCSW/980 AM) [1/11/22] 

Post#106 » by Ruzious » Wed Jan 12, 2022 4:33 pm

payitforward wrote:Dang, you guys are being awfully ungrateful after a win.

Dinwiddie posted 22 points on a .608 TS%. 10 assists with 2 steals & zero turnovers. He had a terrific game -- better, for example, than Shai Gilgeous-Alexander (who also had a terrific game -- just not as good as Spencer's outing.

You'd think the first 45 minutes of a 48-minute game had no effect on anything.

This was an exciting game to watch. OKC has an exceptional amount of young talent. The guy who had the best game for them last night, on a per-minute basis, was Bazley. Giddey is a tremendous young player as well.

It's because we watched the game. The high number of assists were only because he'd dribble around accomplishing nothing for 20 seconds before passing. Then he'd get an assist because the player who caught it had to shoot right away and came through. His defense was absurdly bad. SGA played a far better game.
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Re: GT #41: SuperSonics @ Bullets 7 PM (NBCSW/980 AM) [1/11/22] 

Post#107 » by CntOutSmrtCrazy » Wed Jan 12, 2022 5:22 pm

payitforward wrote:
CntOutSmrtCrazy wrote:...IMO, and this is a sidebar that I’ll probably have some here vehemently disagree with me about and call me dumb or whatever, but I think it’s a pretty big red flag to be as involved in crypto as he is, and I think it reflects itself in other areas of his mentality. I say this because I’ve seen how many others act, talk, and think when they are heavily involved in crypto and it’s not the most reasonable crowd.

There's no need for vehemence & no reason to call you dumb. But, you're wrong about crypto -- i.e. wrong in principle &, as far as I am able to tell about Dinwiddie, you seem wrong about him on this subject as well.

Anyone here should feel free to tell me I don't know anything about basketball. But, I spent 20+ years as an entrepreneur in new technology spaces. Crypto is a manifestation of something called "blockchain" technology -- which I'm not going to attempt to explain here: there are plenty of sources online. It's real & looks to have transformative power.

I have a number of friends who are heavily involved in crypto; none of them exhibit any "act, talk, and think" problems that are "not... reasonable." I'm not involved myself, but that's only because I'm not at the financial accumulation stage of life.

Given the terms of your description (emotional not analytical), if you asked me for advice on the subject (but you haven't...) I'd suggest you stay away from it (...& so I'm not making that or any other suggestion). From investing in it, I mean. If you felt like learning more about it... why not? Learning is always a good thing.

As to Dinwiddie, everything he says on the subject -- that I've come across of, at least -- seems reasonable. Now... you may have read something that I'm not aware of.

His play last night didn't have anything to do w/ crypto, obviously! & how anyone can think 22 points in 34 minutes on .608 efficiency, along with 10 assists, 2 steals & zero turnovers is anything other than an outstanding effort beats me.


I'm all wrong about crypto? I didn't say anything other than there is a pretty common temperament of people often associated with crypto or feel the pressing need to defend its merits, and that it's a red flag. And, viola, you show it. I'm too emotional and unlearned to ever invest in or understand what it is. Ah, the typical repertoire used by the the acolytes of crypto.

As for the game, outstanding effort? I guess defense for the entire game or really poor game management in critical spots doesn't matter in terms of your evaluation. How could it be when it doesn't rift off the point you are really trying to insinuate. I said as much in my prior points that this was one of his better offensive games before some very questionable plays down the stretch and that one of his brighter points this season is that he does a good job a passing without turning it over. Look back at the entire thread if you fancy. But, right, I'm oblivious to evaluating a guy sporting 39.6/32.5/79.6 splits, on a below league average PER for the season, and dare I say I lackluster attitude (I know, there's not a metric for that, so oh nos, I can't speak to without being deemed emotional).
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Re: GT #41: SuperSonics @ Bullets 7 PM (NBCSW/980 AM) [1/11/22] 

Post#108 » by payitforward » Wed Jan 12, 2022 5:35 pm

Ruzious wrote:
payitforward wrote:Dang, you guys are being awfully ungrateful after a win.

Dinwiddie posted 22 points on a .608 TS%. 10 assists with 2 steals & zero turnovers. He had a terrific game -- better, for example, than Shai Gilgeous-Alexander (who also had a terrific game -- just not as good as Spencer's outing.

You'd think the first 45 minutes of a 48-minute game had no effect on anything.

This was an exciting game to watch. OKC has an exceptional amount of young talent. The guy who had the best game for them last night, on a per-minute basis, was Bazley. Giddey is a tremendous young player as well.

Obviously you didn't watch. The high number of assists were only because he'd dribble around accomplishing nothing for 20 seconds before passing. Then he'd get an assist because the player who caught it had to shoot right away and came through. His defense was absurdly bad. SGA played a far better game.

I wouldn't have commented as I did if I hadn't watched the game.

Every assist is created b/c a player catches a pass & comes through. & "dribble around accomplishing nothing for 20 seconds..." is obviously not an objective description on which an opinion can be based; it's the opinion itself being paraded around in the costume of a description.

I wasn't criticizing SGA, & I wasn't comparing him & Dinwiddie. I'd give my eye teeth to have SGA, & I'd trade Dinwiddie for him straight up in a heartbeat! Duh. I was comparing their outings last night -- both of which were good.

Maybe there'd be less interference from pre-determined judgments if we compared last night's outings by SGA & Josh Giddey. In fact, let's look at all 3 guys.

A turnover is a bad thing. It contributes to losing not winning. SGA had 2 of them. Spence & Giddey had none.

A steal is a good thing. It contributes to winning not losing. Spence & Giddey each had two of them last night; SGA had none.

Both those facts are simple & objective -- as much so as the fact that SGA went 13-22 including one 3-pointer, while Spence went 7-15 including one 3-pointer & Giddey was 8-15 w/ 2 of them.

Ditto that Spence got to the line 7 times & made all 7 FTAs, while SGA was 5-6, & Giddey didn't get to the line at all.

Also that, while both SGA & Giddey had 8 assists & 2 turnovers, Spence had 10 assists & zero turnovers.

Giddey had 2 offensive rebounds to SGA's 0, & he had an extra defensive board as well. Spence had 1 ofensive board but was 1 down to SGA in defensive rebounds.

All objective facts, not opinions. Ditto that while neither SGA nor Giddey had a steal, Spence had 2 steals. & that Spence & Giddey each committed only 1 foul -- compared to SGA's 4.

All three guys were really good, but I'd give the advantage to Giddey over SGA without hesitation. On the numbers, he was better. Ditto Spence over SGA. In fact, Giddey & Dinwiddie were about equally good last night.

Now, if numbers don't matter... so what? But, these numbers directly create the one number that we know matters -- the final score. So... maybe they actually do matter, what do you think?
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Re: GT #41: SuperSonics @ Bullets 7 PM (NBCSW/980 AM) [1/11/22] 

Post#109 » by Ruzious » Wed Jan 12, 2022 5:44 pm

payitforward wrote:
Ruzious wrote:
payitforward wrote:Dang, you guys are being awfully ungrateful after a win.

Dinwiddie posted 22 points on a .608 TS%. 10 assists with 2 steals & zero turnovers. He had a terrific game -- better, for example, than Shai Gilgeous-Alexander (who also had a terrific game -- just not as good as Spencer's outing.

You'd think the first 45 minutes of a 48-minute game had no effect on anything.

This was an exciting game to watch. OKC has an exceptional amount of young talent. The guy who had the best game for them last night, on a per-minute basis, was Bazley. Giddey is a tremendous young player as well.

Obviously you didn't watch. The high number of assists were only because he'd dribble around accomplishing nothing for 20 seconds before passing. Then he'd get an assist because the player who caught it had to shoot right away and came through. His defense was absurdly bad. SGA played a far better game.

I wouldn't have commented as I did if I hadn't watched the game.

Every assist is created b/c a player catches a pass & comes through. & "dribble around accomplishing nothing for 20 seconds..." is obviously not an objective description on which an opinion can be based; it's the opinion itself being paraded around in the costume of a description.

I wasn't criticizing SGA, & I wasn't comparing him & Dinwiddie. I'd give my eye teeth to have SGA, & I'd trade Dinwiddie for him straight up in a heartbeat! Duh. I was comparing their outings last night -- both of which were good.

Maybe there'd be less interference from pre-determined judgments if we compared last night's outings by SGA & Josh Giddey. In fact, let's look at all 3 guys.

A turnover is a bad thing. It contributes to losing not winning. SGA had 2 of them. Spence & Giddey had none.

A steal is a good thing. It contributes to winning not losing. Spence & Giddey each had two of them last night; SGA had none.

Both those facts are simple & objective -- as much so as the fact that SGA went 13-22 including one 3-pointer, while Spence went 7-15 including one 3-pointer & Giddey was 8-15 w/ 2 of them.

Ditto that Spence got to the line 7 times & made all 7 FTAs, while SGA was 5-6, & Giddey didn't get to the line at all.

Also that, while both SGA & Giddey had 8 assists & 2 turnovers, Spence had 10 assists & zero turnovers.

Giddey had 2 offensive rebounds to SGA's 0, & he had an extra defensive board as well. Spence had 1 ofensive board but was 1 down to SGA in defensive rebounds.

All objective facts, not opinions. Ditto that while neither SGA nor Giddey had a steal, Spence had 2 steals. & that Spence & Giddey each committed only 1 foul -- compared to SGA's 4.

All three guys were really good, but I'd give the advantage to Giddey over SGA without hesitation. On the numbers, he was better. Ditto Spence over SGA. In fact, Giddey & Dinwiddie were about equally good last night.

Now, if numbers don't matter... so what? But, these numbers directly create the one number that we know matters -- the final score. So... maybe they actually do matter, what do you think?

I stopped reading early in your second paragraph.

I'm not going to call you a liar, but anyone who thinks Dinwiddie played well - didn't watch the game.
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Re: GT #41: SuperSonics @ Bullets 7 PM (NBCSW/980 AM) [1/11/22] 

Post#110 » by payitforward » Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:15 pm

CntOutSmrtCrazy wrote:
payitforward wrote:
CntOutSmrtCrazy wrote:...IMO, and this is a sidebar that I’ll probably have some here vehemently disagree with me about and call me dumb or whatever, but I think it’s a pretty big red flag to be as involved in crypto as he is, and I think it reflects itself in other areas of his mentality. I say this because I’ve seen how many others act, talk, and think when they are heavily involved in crypto and it’s not the most reasonable crowd.

There's no need for vehemence & no reason to call you dumb. But, you're wrong about crypto -- i.e. wrong in principle &, as far as I am able to tell about Dinwiddie, you seem wrong about him on this subject as well.

Anyone here should feel free to tell me I don't know anything about basketball. But, I spent 20+ years as an entrepreneur in new technology spaces. Crypto is a manifestation of something called "blockchain" technology -- which I'm not going to attempt to explain here: there are plenty of sources online. It's real & looks to have transformative power.

I have a number of friends who are heavily involved in crypto; none of them exhibit any "act, talk, and think" problems that are "not... reasonable." I'm not involved myself, but that's only because I'm not at the financial accumulation stage of life.

Given the terms of your description (emotional not analytical), if you asked me for advice on the subject (but you haven't...) I'd suggest you stay away from it (...& so I'm not making that or any other suggestion). From investing in it, I mean. If you felt like learning more about it... why not? Learning is always a good thing.

As to Dinwiddie, everything he says on the subject -- that I've come across of, at least -- seems reasonable. Now... you may have read something that I'm not aware of.

His play last night didn't have anything to do w/ crypto, obviously! & how anyone can think 22 points in 34 minutes on .608 efficiency, along with 10 assists, 2 steals & zero turnovers is anything other than an outstanding effort beats me.


I'm all wrong about crypto? I didn't say anything other than there is a pretty common temperament of people often associated with crypto or feel the pressing need to defend its merits, and that it's a red flag. And, viola, you show it. I'm too emotional and unlearned to ever invest in or understand what it is. Ah, the typical repertoire used by the the acolytes of crypto.

As for the game, outstanding effort? I guess defense for the entire game or really poor game management in critical spots doesn't matter in terms of your evaluation. How could it be when it doesn't rift off the point you are really trying to insinuate. I said as much in my prior points that this was one of his better offensive games before some very questionable plays down the stretch and that one of his brighter points this season is that he does a good job a passing without turning it over. Look back at the entire thread if you fancy. But, right, I'm oblivious to evaluating a guy sporting 39.6/32.5/79.6 splits, on a below league average PER for the season, and dare I say I lackluster attitude (I know, there's not a metric for that, so oh nos, I can't speak to without being deemed emotional).

I seem to have offended you, although that was not my intention. I apologize. As I wrote, "there's no reason for vehemence & no reason to call you dumb."

Please take my apology seriously -- that's how I mean it.

As to crypto, I'm not an acolyte; tbh, I don't give a sh*t about crypto.

I don't know whether Spencer Dinwiddie has a lackluster attitude. For sure he cultivates a "calm & business-like" demeanor (a world away from Trez, for example! :)). But, I certainly agree with you that so far he hasn't been nearly as good as we all hoped -- not as good as he was in his most recent seasons, in other words.

I thought Spence started the season pretty strong, given that he was coming off an injury. Then he went through a down period, & more recently has started coming back. On offense, he's attacking the basket more than he did earlier this season. So I'm hopeful.... Maybe that's foolish on my part. We'll see.

As to last night... maybe I'm just happy we got a win! :) Certainly nothing to argue about....
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Re: GT #41: SuperSonics @ Bullets 7 PM (NBCSW/980 AM) [1/11/22] 

Post#111 » by payitforward » Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:18 pm

Ruzious wrote:I stopped reading early in your second paragraph.

I'm not going to call you a liar, but anyone who thinks Dinwiddie played well - didn't watch the game.

I stopped reading after "I stopped reading."
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Re: GT #41: SuperSonics @ Bullets 7 PM (NBCSW/980 AM) [1/11/22] 

Post#112 » by DCZards » Wed Jan 12, 2022 7:45 pm

I’m with PIF. I don’t like the slow pace that Dinwiddie often plays at but 10 assists and zero turnovers in 34 mins is winning basketball.

On top of that, Spencer attacked the basket off the dribble, which is what I want to see from him.
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Re: GT #41: SuperSonics @ Bullets 7 PM (NBCSW/980 AM) [1/11/22] 

Post#113 » by Ruzious » Wed Jan 12, 2022 8:06 pm

DCZards wrote:I’m with PIF. I don’t like the slow pace that Dinwiddie often plays at but 10 assists and zero turnovers in 34 mins is winning basketball.

On top of that, Spencer attacked the basket off the dribble, which is what I want to see from him.

Most of the time he dribbled the ball aimlessly, and again... he got most of his assists by waiting to pass until the shot clock nearly ran out. His teammates bailed him out. That is not attacking. He got a belated Christmas gift from Lou Dort - who missed the wide open 3 near the end that Dinwiddie gave him. His D all game was putrid, and he spent too much time arguing with the officials.

Can he play well? Yes. But he needs to do these easy to correct things:

1. Stop dribbling the ball aimlessly for 10 plus seconds on many possessions,
2. Play much smarter defense, and
3. Stop spending so much time arguing with officials.
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Re: GT #41: SuperSonics @ Bullets 7 PM (NBCSW/980 AM) [1/11/22] 

Post#114 » by dobrojim » Wed Jan 12, 2022 10:40 pm

What Point Guard College calls P-dribbling (P standing for exactly what is sounds like, rhymes with hiss),
aimless dribbling, is something quite a few players of varying skills can be seen doing. It's not good and
PGs probably end up doing it more than other players simply based on having the ball in their hands.
Sometimes it probably happens because teammates are standing around not creating a dynamic situation.

I like what DCZards said. And agree with the general disappointment in Din so far. The season is half
over. We'll wait and hope for better in the second half. His game last night was fine. We'd obviously
have to be very happy if he did that regularly in the second half.

Like PIF, and everyone else commenting here, I watched the game. Without saying who's right/wrong,
sometimes our eyes fool us about who is playing well and who isn't. I was surprised at halftime to see
SGA hadn't shot 100% with how effective he seemed. Several times when he drove I expected
Gaff to get a block but I don;t think he ever blocked SGA which is a bit surprising.
I believe at half SGA was 8-13 from the floor. Dang good.

Re eyes deceiving us, on TV they credited Deni with 7 assists. I wouldn't have guessed that.
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Re: GT #41: SuperSonics @ Bullets 7 PM (NBCSW/980 AM) [1/11/22] 

Post#115 » by Ruzious » Wed Jan 12, 2022 10:54 pm

dobrojim wrote:Re eyes deceiving us, on TV they credited Deni with 7 assists. I wouldn't have guessed that.

And sometimes tv commentators deceive us - Deni had zero assists.
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Re: GT #41: SuperSonics @ Bullets 7 PM (NBCSW/980 AM) [1/11/22] 

Post#116 » by dobrojim » Wed Jan 12, 2022 11:20 pm

Ruzious wrote:
dobrojim wrote:Re eyes deceiving us, on TV they credited Deni with 7 assists. I wouldn't have guessed that.

And sometimes tv commentators deceive us - Deni had zero assists.


Yikes! Deceive us or just get something factual completely wrong.
And the final score wasn't 122-121 either. And that was not a foul on Gaff in the 1st quarter
which should have been obvious given that play stopped, but possession didn't change.

Re Deni, 7 did seem much higher than I thought!
A lot of what we call 'thought' is just mental activity

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