The Amazingly Sucky Tommy Sheppard Thread

[penbeast0]

I would give the Sheppard era a middling grade. I believe in the full Hinkie but understand that when your boss refuses to tank, you have to try to be the Pacers. Combine that with inheriting the worst long term roster in the league and he's rebuilt it back to mediocre. His drafting hasn't been great but I'm a little more forgiving on that than some (since I'm a poor draft predicter as well); his trades have generally been positive to very positive.

The trouble is mediocre is the hardest place to get to truly competitive from; you need at least 1 dominant player and I don't think Beal is that guy. I also think it's part of the team executive's job to convince the owner that when you have no talent that you can build around, you need to tank and he failed miserably at that. So C+/B-. . . middling.

[payitforward]

We're talking in circles now. Such is the life of a Wizards fan.

As stated numerous times, the only thing that matters is results. We can give him A+ grades for all his little trades here and there, at the end of the day this is a sub .500 team year after year. If these trades are so genius why aren't we a better team?

Whiffing on the draft practically every year (including drafting Davis who looks like he doesn't even belong in the G league (thus far)) automatically give you an F in my book. Impossible to build a team otherwise.

Can't really disagree with the main point. Results are what matter.

We'll see what the 16-10 run results in.

[AFM]

We're talking in circles now. Such is the life of a Wizards fan.

As stated numerous times, the only thing that matters is results. We can give him A+ grades for all his little trades here and there, at the end of the day this is a sub .500 team year after year. If these trades are so genius why aren't we a better team?

Whiffing on the draft practically every year (including drafting Davis who looks like he doesn't even belong in the G league (thus far)) automatically give you an F in my book. Impossible to build a team otherwise.

Can't really disagree with the main point. Results are what matter.

We'll see what the 16-10 run results in.

Didn't really want to be disagreeable either brutha

Man, if they get Westbrook (not saying I want this) I could see us going on a run, not dissimilar to what happened last time he played for us.

He is like the GOAT player to add to a bad team like the Wizards.

[gambitx777]

I have a take and I'll probably get **** on for it. But here we go.
The Beal contract, Not trading kuz, the KCP trade. Even Johnny Davis. I may not always agree with these moves but I understand them in the context of what the marching orders are and what tommy is trying to do. I am probably one of the bigger tommy fefenders. But, what I can't forgive is the lack of **** at the deadline. Like it makes no sense too me. Barton isn't working out, Taj is washed, Gill can't hang, tood is not an NBA player. That's 4 players on your team that can't and shouldn't be on the floor in the play off nor can they help you get there. So why on earth are they still here. Why wasn't an effort made to beef up the bench? There were deals out there, we have second rounders and some stuff to make small moves. Nunn is a decent back up on a desct salary your telling me a cap strapped contender wouldn't wanna strong some washed players on min contracts together for him. Because if you have Goodwin why didn't you trade Nunn ? It doesn't make sense for the goal that you are worksing towards. You want Taj on the bench , fine. You couldn't find a team to take Barton, fine. But there is no excuse for not trying to flip or upgrade Todd, Gill or Nunn. That's the last straw for me, lack of effort and creativity. I don't care if you mess up a pick do something about it. I don't care if a signing doesn't work, do something about it. I don't care if you wanna make the play offs the goal, do something about it. **** happens and no one is perfect but for **** sakes make a **** effort. There is no reason to stay still at the dead like when we could have made minor upgrades around the fringes and maybe maybe got a game or two better because that's the goal here as stated. So when you do stuff that's contradicts that it's just stupid and I can't defend that.

I defended tommy for not making a stupid all in more or over paying but I suspect there was some stuff out there to do and he just didn't.

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using RealGM mobile app

[Endless Loop]

It's so interesting to compare what the Caps have done at the deadline to what the Wiz did.

The Caps traded expiring contracts for picks and youth. Not just one contract, either. And not just end-of-bench type players.

The Wiz did nothing.

Both teams are right on the edge of the playoffs. Both teams are at or near the cap.

Ted accepted both approaches.

That says to me that keeping Kuz at the deadline is, for better or worse, all Tommy's choice.

There is another possibility. That is that Ted is more involved in Caps' decisionmaking, while his son, Zach, is the hands-on guy with the Wiz.

[Kanyewest]

It's so interesting to compare what the Caps have done at the deadline to what the Wiz did.

The Caps traded expiring contracts for picks and youth. Not just one contract, either. And not just end-of-bench type players.

The Wiz did nothing.

Both teams are right on the edge of the playoffs. Both teams are at or near the cap.

Ted accepted both approaches.

That says to me that keeping Kuz at the deadline is, for better or worse, all Tommy's choice.

There is another possibility. That is that Ted is more involved in Caps' decisionmaking, while his son, Zach, is the hands-on guy with the Wiz.

I believe the Caps playoffs chances to some projections are at 16%. I believe the Wizards playoffs chances were higher at the trade deadline.

[trast66]

If we miss the play in is it possible Tommy gets fired? 4 years with 1 playoff win (not a series, one game). Ted lets him draft again? I suppose it’s too much to hope for. Wes goes as well of course.

[closg00]

If we miss the play in is it possible Tommy gets fired? 4 years with 1 playoff win (not a series, one game). Ted lets him draft again? I suppose it’s too much to hope for. Wes goes as well of course.

It took Ted 13 years to let go of Ernie, Ted will double-down on "The process" for sure. Tommy & Wes are safe, so they will make some fake minor moves in the FO.

[queridiculo]

I've still been lurking here every now and then but I have decided that not following the team beyond that and box score watching is better for my sanity.

It was obvious from day one that nothing short of knocking it out of the park in the draft would get this team on the right track and we all know how that's gone.

The idea that Grunfeld's crony would somehow turn this franchise around was laughable at the onset, but that's what you get from an ownership group that's more invested in saying all the right things rather than doing them.

The most discouraging thing to me about this season so far, confirmation that the organization regards Kuzma as a franchise cornerstone.

There really is no hope for the Wizards under the current ownership and front office.

[payitforward]

You left out the worst bit!
There is also no hope for ownership to be changed.

For at least the 100th time...
Ted Leonsis does not own the Washington Wizards.

The team is owned by Monumental Sports & Entertainment.
MS&E cares no more about team results than General Motors cares about whether you wash your car this week.
The questions on the table for MS&E are about revenue, growth, expenses, & profit.

There is no overlap, literally none, between their perspective on their NBA product & ours perspective on it.
The question of "how the Wizards are doing" does not come up in MS&E meetings -- not, that is, independent of its effect on the revenue stream. Which can only be minor, given the structure of the NBA.

As far as Ted goes, if it's relevant in any way to talk about him as an individual, he has no ego involvement in the success of the Wizards -- & he has no reason to have any either!

Ted's ego involvement is in the success of Monumental Sports & Entertainment. There & only there.

[AFM]

You left out the worst bit!
There is also no hope for ownership to be changed.

For at least the 100th time,
Ted Leonsis does not own the Washington Wizards.

This team is owned by Monumental Sports & Entertainment. The questions on the table for MS&E are about revenue, growth, expenses, & profit.

They care no more about team results than General Motors cares about whether you wash your car this week.

There is no overlap, literally none, between their perspective on their NBA product & ours perspective on it. The question of "how the Wizards are doing" does not come up in MS&E meetings -- not, that is, independent of its effect on the revenue stream. Which can only be minor, given the structure of the NBA.

As far as Ted goes, if it's relevant in any way to talk about him as an individual, he has no ego involvement in the success of the Wizards -- & he has no reason to have any either!

Ted's ego involvement is in the success of Monumental Sports & Entertainment. There & only there.

Exactly. Do we even know if Ted likes basketball?

[payitforward]

....Do we even know if Ted likes basketball?

Forgive me, but even that question is irrelevant.

Ted comes to games; I'm sure he'd like to see us win rather than lose. He can be a fan.

But, he doesn't bring "being a basketball fan" into business meetings to have an effect on business decisions any more than you bring being a Wizards fan into your business meetings to allow it to affect business decisions.

This is not wrong or evil on his part. It's normal & correct.

All business decisions must either stimulate growth (without negatively affecting profit potential) or increase profit (without negatively affecting the potential to grow).

Everything else is just internal process stuff -- important in making it easier to run the joint & do product management but not key in the sense that growth & profit are key.

Who the Wiz FO is, what kinds of decisions they make, who they draft & trade, how they pay players (within the known parameters of cap & tax)... all that stuff is in the 3d category.

It'll stay there until it becomes a drag either on growth or profit.

If the Celtics have 3 bad seasons in a row, their fan-base starts to get mad. Management begins to worry. It's not like that here....

[AFM]

....Do we even know if Ted likes basketball?

Forgive me, but even that question is irrelevant.

Ted comes to games; I'm sure he'd like to see us win rather than lose. He can be a fan.

But, he doesn't bring "being a basketball fan" into business meetings to have an effect on business decisions any more than you bring being a Wizards fan into your business meetings to allow it to affect business decisions.

This is not wrong or evil on his part. It's normal & correct.

All business decisions must either stimulate growth (without negatively affecting profit potential) or increase profit (without negatively affecting the potential to grow).

Everything else is just internal process stuff -- important in making it easier to run the joint & do product management but not key in the sense that growth & profit are key.

Who the Wiz FO is, what kinds of decisions they make, who they draft & trade, how they pay players (within the known parameters of cap & tax)... all that stuff is in the 3d category.

It'll stay there until it becomes a drag either on growth or profit.

If the Celtics have 3 bad seasons in a row, their fan-base starts to get mad. Management begins to worry. It's not like that here....

I don't think its irrelevant at all. And I don't need a less on capitalism either. Buying an NBA team, for most owners at least, means much more to them than just a financial investment. There are other ways to invest your money if you are a billionaire. Owners like Balmer and Cuban come to mind.

[gambitx777]

You left out the worst bit!
There is also no hope for ownership to be changed.

For at least the 100th time...
Ted Leonsis does not own the Washington Wizards.

The team is owned by Monumental Sports & Entertainment.
MS&E cares no more about team results than General Motors cares about whether you wash your car this week.
The questions on the table for MS&E are about revenue, growth, expenses, & profit.

There is no overlap, literally none, between their perspective on their NBA product & ours perspective on it.
The question of "how the Wizards are doing" does not come up in MS&E meetings -- not, that is, independent of its effect on the revenue stream. Which can only be minor, given the structure of the NBA.

As far as Ted goes, if it's relevant in any way to talk about him as an individual, he has no ego involvement in the success of the Wizards -- & he has no reason to have any either!

Ted's ego involvement is in the success of Monumental Sports & Entertainment. There & only there.

Not exactly because if it is as you say and Ted isn't acting as an individual. The company is more than likely to sell the team than a big dick swinging owner with an ego. A corporate entity is more likely to cash out on an NBA team while they have peak value before the cable contract bubble burst.

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using RealGM mobile app

[payitforward]

Forgive me, but even that question is irrelevant.

Ted comes to games; I'm sure he'd like to see us win rather than lose. He can be a fan.

But, he doesn't bring "being a basketball fan" into business meetings to have an effect on business decisions any more than you bring being a Wizards fan into your business meetings to allow it to affect business decisions.

This is not wrong or evil on his part. It's normal & correct.

All business decisions must either stimulate growth (without negatively affecting profit potential) or increase profit (without negatively affecting the potential to grow).

Everything else is just internal process stuff -- important in making it easier to run the joint & do product management but not key in the sense that growth & profit are key.

Who the Wiz FO is, what kinds of decisions they make, who they draft & trade, how they pay players (within the known parameters of cap & tax)... all that stuff is in the 3d category.

It'll stay there until it becomes a drag either on growth or profit.

If the Celtics have 3 bad seasons in a row, their fan-base starts to get mad. Management begins to worry. It's not like that here....

I don't think its irrelevant at all. And I don't need a less on capitalism either. Buying an NBA team, for most owners at least, means much more to them than just a financial investment. There are other ways to invest your money if you are a billionaire. Owners like Balmer and Cuban come to mind.

Sorry that I came off that way... not my intention at all. Probably just expressing my frustration at Leonsis, whom I view as a guy who got lucky running into Steve Case (who actually founded AOL). Nothing like Marc Cuban, IOW.

[nate33]

Forgive me, but even that question is irrelevant.

Ted comes to games; I'm sure he'd like to see us win rather than lose. He can be a fan.

But, he doesn't bring "being a basketball fan" into business meetings to have an effect on business decisions any more than you bring being a Wizards fan into your business meetings to allow it to affect business decisions.

This is not wrong or evil on his part. It's normal & correct.

All business decisions must either stimulate growth (without negatively affecting profit potential) or increase profit (without negatively affecting the potential to grow).

Everything else is just internal process stuff -- important in making it easier to run the joint & do product management but not key in the sense that growth & profit are key.

Who the Wiz FO is, what kinds of decisions they make, who they draft & trade, how they pay players (within the known parameters of cap & tax)... all that stuff is in the 3d category.

It'll stay there until it becomes a drag either on growth or profit.

If the Celtics have 3 bad seasons in a row, their fan-base starts to get mad. Management begins to worry. It's not like that here....

I don't think its irrelevant at all. And I don't need a less on capitalism either. Buying an NBA team, for most owners at least, means much more to them than just a financial investment. There are other ways to invest your money if you are a billionaire. Owners like Balmer and Cuban come to mind.

Not only that, but consistent winning generates more revenue. So of course winning matters.

[payitforward]

...consistent winning generates more revenue. So of course winning matters.

Actually, that's a salient point. Usually, if you improve a product, sales go up. It makes perfect sense, & it can't be denied.

This would be more significant of course if the Wizards were competing with another NBA team in the area (or with another team in any sport that had overlapping audiences & a strongly overlapping schedule of home games). It would also be more significant if so much NBA revenue weren't shared.

Plus it would be yet more significant if fan loyalty to "the home team" weren't so extraordinary over time. I.e. losing doesn't seem to cost as much revenue as would be likely in a more competitive market.

Still, you are right -- even with those factors included, a better team would surely bring in more revenue. In fact, we already know that being "better" enough to generate 3 home games in R1 of the playoffs is significant in that regard. & to profit as well.

&, since 16 of 30 teams get at least that far, the bar is set pretty low! Not low enough for us to clear with any regularity, of course, since in the last 15 years, we've been in the playoffs only 4 times: once in the 4th spot, once in the 8th spot, & twice in the 5th spot.

A cap & reversed draft positions based on record are supposed to level the playing field, & to a significant extent they do. But, an outstanding FO still makes a difference. & an incompetent one (like ours) does too.

[doclinkin]

Plus it would be yet more significant if fan loyalty to "the home team" weren't so extraordinary over time. I.e. losing doesn't seem to cost as much revenue as would be likely in a more competitive market.

Fan loyalty is also beside the point, even irrelevant, since in this market the high dollar suites etc are rented out to fans of the visiting team.

https://www.suiteexperiencegroup.com/all-suites/nba/washington-wizards/

DC has a high population of transient fans since the prime local industry turns over every few years in a constant shuffle of out of towners.

Since it is a losing product local fans don't attend en masse. If we were winning we would sell more local merchandise, maybe more advertising on cable, possibly more seats even when bad teams were in town. But fans and players recognize that this is one of the friendliest arenas in the league for opposing team fans. Hell under Abe Pollin/Susan O'Malley the team actually marketed and promoted the game based on the out of town stars coming through. The team is insulated against failure and does fine being the Washington Generals to whatever globetrotter team of all-stars comes through. Even though visiting teams do tend to rest their stars when our squad comes up on the schedule. A built in rest day for load management etc.

We are the league's permanent sparring partner and practice squad.

[Frichuela]

Plus it would be yet more significant if fan loyalty to "the home team" weren't so extraordinary over time. I.e. losing doesn't seem to cost as much revenue as would be likely in a more competitive market.

Fan loyalty is also beside the point, even irrelevant, since in this market the high dollar suites etc are rented out to fans of the visiting team.

https://www.suiteexperiencegroup.com/all-suites/nba/washington-wizards/

DC has a high population of transient fans since the prime local industry turns over every few years in a constant shuffle of out of towners.

Since it is a losing product local fans don't attend en masse. If we were winning we would sell more local merchandise, maybe more advertising on cable, possibly more seats even when bad teams were in town. But fans and players recognize that this is one of the friendliest arenas in the league for opposing team fans. Hell under Abe Pollin/Susan O'Malley the team actually marketed and promoted the game based on the out of town stars coming through. The team is insulated against failure and does fine being the Washington Generals to whatever globetrotter team of all-stars comes through. Even though visiting teams do tend to rest their stars when our squad comes up on the schedule. A built in rest day for load management etc.

We are the league's permanent sparring partner and practice squad.

Very true and depressing…

[TGW]

The Wizards are also a developmental team for other teams. Although that won’t be a problem for Sheppard because he picks scrubs.