Dark Faze wrote:[from NBA Games thread] Gobert is likely to get moved imo. I'm not sure to who or for what.
How about
Gobert to the Mavs
Dwight Powell, KCP, Kuzma and one of Ntilikina & Chriss to Utah
Brunson and Trey Burke to Wizards.
Moderators: LyricalRico, nate33, montestewart
Dark Faze wrote:[from NBA Games thread] Gobert is likely to get moved imo. I'm not sure to who or for what.
B8RcDeMktfxC wrote:Dark Faze wrote:[from NBA Games thread] Gobert is likely to get moved imo. I'm not sure to who or for what.
How about
Gobert to the Mavs
Dwight Powell, KCP, Kuzma and one of Ntilikina & Chriss to Utah
Brunson and Trey Burke to Wizards.
nate33 wrote:B8RcDeMktfxC wrote:Dark Faze wrote:[from NBA Games thread] Gobert is likely to get moved imo. I'm not sure to who or for what.
How about
Gobert to the Mavs
Dwight Powell, KCP, Kuzma and one of Ntilikina & Chriss to Utah
Brunson and Trey Burke to Wizards.
Utah doesn't want to trade one dollar for 4 quarters. They're not going to agree to a deal that doesn't even bring back a single above-average starter.
doclinkin wrote:payitforward wrote:That's all totally accurate, doc. But, why should we be realistic in that sense?
Plus, thinking along those lines I don't imagine that any of us would have come up with the trade of John Wall for Russ -- & certainly not the trade of Russ to the Lakers. Not to mention the plethora of other completely surprising moves Tommy has engineered.
...
No one can call Tommy boring! No one kicks the can down the road in as surprising a fashion as Mr. Sheppard!
Sure but that frees us up to propose the wildest possible deals that would fit under the guidelines given. The question is not "What should we do?" but "What should Tommy do?" Not what *will* he do, which yeah, is clearly something difficult to guess.
What is the best team we can build under the restraints that Tommy has surely been given. And what gives us the best chance for the future?
If you (collective you) were the GM and given Ted's double bottom happy talk, what is the best you could do to build a good team now, and a chance for a future better team. See if we can 'out-Tommy' Tommy.
I suspect that means: build a team around Porzingis + a re-signed Beal, that produces a better record next year, without bankrupting the future, has a prayer of eventual contention. It's both a low bar, and a tricky challenge. Given that handicap, what squad can you build?
trast66 wrote:doclinkin wrote:payitforward wrote:That's all totally accurate, doc. But, why should we be realistic in that sense?
Plus, thinking along those lines I don't imagine that any of us would have come up with the trade of John Wall for Russ -- & certainly not the trade of Russ to the Lakers. Not to mention the plethora of other completely surprising moves Tommy has engineered.
...
No one can call Tommy boring! No one kicks the can down the road in as surprising a fashion as Mr. Sheppard!
Sure but that frees us up to propose the wildest possible deals that would fit under the guidelines given. The question is not "What should we do?" but "What should Tommy do?" Not what *will* he do, which yeah, is clearly something difficult to guess.
What is the best team we can build under the restraints that Tommy has surely been given. And what gives us the best chance for the future?
If you (collective you) were the GM and given Ted's double bottom happy talk, what is the best you could do to build a good team now, and a chance for a future better team. See if we can 'out-Tommy' Tommy.
I suspect that means: build a team around Porzingis + a re-signed Beal, that produces a better record next year, without bankrupting the future, has a prayer of eventual contention. It's both a low bar, and a tricky challenge. Given that handicap, what squad can you build?
Agree with the premise that Tommy has constraints, similar to those that the majority of GMs work under. And Tommy agreeing to those constraints is why he has the job and Tim Connelly is still in Denver.
He is also constrained in that in 3 drafts the organization has not developed any young stars and he can’t trade a first round pick until 2028 due to protections on pick in the Wall trade.
He has neither young stars or draft picks.
One hope is to rise to the top 4 during lottery. Even the Wiz can pick a good player with that type of pick. Failing that, say we pick 10, draft best defensive wing player available and keep chugging along as a threat to make the play in.
But one of those top 4 picks changes the outlook.
trast66 wrote:doclinkin wrote:payitforward wrote:That's all totally accurate, doc. But, why should we be realistic in that sense?
Plus, thinking along those lines I don't imagine that any of us would have come up with the trade of John Wall for Russ -- & certainly not the trade of Russ to the Lakers. Not to mention the plethora of other completely surprising moves Tommy has engineered.
...
No one can call Tommy boring! No one kicks the can down the road in as surprising a fashion as Mr. Sheppard!
Sure but that frees us up to propose the wildest possible deals that would fit under the guidelines given. The question is not "What should we do?" but "What should Tommy do?" Not what *will* he do, which yeah, is clearly something difficult to guess.
What is the best team we can build under the restraints that Tommy has surely been given. And what gives us the best chance for the future?
If you (collective you) were the GM and given Ted's double bottom happy talk, what is the best you could do to build a good team now, and a chance for a future better team. See if we can 'out-Tommy' Tommy.
I suspect that means: build a team around Porzingis + a re-signed Beal, that produces a better record next year, without bankrupting the future, has a prayer of eventual contention. It's both a low bar, and a tricky challenge. Given that handicap, what squad can you build?
Agree with the premise that Tommy has constraints, similar to those that the majority of GMs work under. And Tommy agreeing to those constraints is why he has the job and Tim Connelly is still in Denver.
He is also constrained in that in 3 drafts the organization has not developed any young stars and he can’t trade a first round pick until 2028 due to protections on pick in the Wall trade.
He has neither young stars or draft picks.
One hope is to rise to the top 4 during lottery. Even the Wiz can pick a good player with that type of pick. Failing that, say we pick 10, draft best defensive wing player available and keep chugging along as a threat to make the play in.
But one of those top 4 picks changes the outlook.
doclinkin wrote:payitforward wrote:That's all totally accurate, doc. But, why should we be realistic in that sense?
Plus, thinking along those lines I don't imagine that any of us would have come up with the trade of John Wall for Russ -- & certainly not the trade of Russ to the Lakers. Not to mention the plethora of other completely surprising moves Tommy has engineered.
...
No one can call Tommy boring! No one kicks the can down the road in as surprising a fashion as Mr. Sheppard!
Sure but that frees us up to propose the wildest possible deals that would fit under the guidelines given. The question is not "What should we do?" but "What should Tommy do?" Not what *will* he do, which yeah, is clearly something difficult to guess.
What is the best team we can build under the restraints that Tommy has surely been given. And what gives us the best chance for the future?
If you (collective you) were the GM and given Ted's double bottom happy talk, what is the best you could do to build a good team now, and a chance for a future better team. See if we can 'out-Tommy' Tommy.
I suspect that means: build a team around Porzingis + a re-signed Beal, that produces a better record next year, without bankrupting the future, has a prayer of eventual contention. It's both a low bar, and a tricky challenge. Given that handicap, what squad can you build?
payitforward wrote:In terms of what he has accomplished in now 3 years, Tommy has achieved exactly one thing & one thing only: he's gotten rid of the contractual millstone that was around the neck of this team -- i.e. John's deal.
As to the "low bar... tricky challenge," unless our R1 pick is an immediate stud, I'd say that, essentially, there is no obvious way whatever to "build a team around Porzingis + a re-signed Beal, that produces a better record next year, without bankrupting the future."
Sorry about that. To produce a better record, we need better players. Period. There is no other practical way to increase the number of games you win.
doclinkin wrote:payitforward wrote:As to the "low bar... tricky challenge," unless our R1 pick is an immediate stud, I'd say that, essentially, there is no obvious way whatever to "build a team around Porzingis + a re-signed Beal, that produces a better record next year, without bankrupting the future."
Sorry about that. To produce a better record, we need better players. Period. There is no other practical way to increase the number of games you win.
Young players do commonly get better. That is a statistically verifiable fact. Given that we are mostly stocked with younger players there is a stronger chance we improve compared to older teams in the league. Not much, not enough, but incrementally better.
Team and scheme can make a difference, as we have seen in Porzingis' (if his Wizards numbers are sustainable). Chemistry makes a difference as we have seen in the obverse in Dinwiddie. Adding this version of Porzingis adds a significantly better player than we started last year with.
We won 35 games last year. As I said, it's a low bar, 36 games is not out of reach.
We have a better than 1 in 10 chance of picking a franchise changing talent. Okay it's an 83% chance that we don't jump to the Top 4, and a non-negligible chance one or more of the lotto teams behind us jumps ahead. Still there will surely be at least one player at 10 or after who is better than many of those picked before him. And yes draft day trades do happen. Up or down.
doclinkin wrote:payitforward wrote:In terms of what he has accomplished in now 3 years, Tommy has achieved exactly one thing & one thing only: he's gotten rid of the contractual millstone that was around the neck of this team -- i.e. John's deal.
And if we ink an injured and probably declining Beal to a large dollar deal then we are back at square one. Sure.
But to this:As to the "low bar... tricky challenge," unless our R1 pick is an immediate stud, I'd say that, essentially, there is no obvious way whatever to "build a team around Porzingis + a re-signed Beal, that produces a better record next year, without bankrupting the future."
Sorry about that. To produce a better record, we need better players. Period. There is no other practical way to increase the number of games you win.
Young players do commonly get better. That is a statistically verifiable fact. Given that we are mostly stocked with younger players there is a stronger chance we improve compared to older teams in the league. Not much, not enough, but incrementally better.
Team and scheme can make a difference, as we have seen in Porzingis' (if his Wizards numbers are sustainable). Chemistry makes a difference as we have seen in the obverse in Dinwiddie. Adding this version of Porzingis adds a significantly better player than we started last year with.
We won 35 games last year. As I said, it's a low bar, 36 games is not out of reach.
We have a better than 1 in 10 chance of picking a franchise changing talent. Okay it's an 83% chance that we don't jump to the Top 4, and a non-negligible chance one or more of the lotto teams behind us jumps ahead. Still there will surely be at least one player at 10 or after who is better than many of those picked before him. And yes draft day trades do happen. Up or down.
You need a passer like trevion who also knows how to play with a big man. He would be my prime target in this draft. I feel the same way about him as I felt about the one Blair D1 Blair DeJuan Blair there you go Googledoclinkin wrote:Long post.
tl;dr: Porzingis played well in a high post scheme.
Yes we need talent.
Like what? Outside shooting. Cutters and screeners. Wing rebounders/defenders. Another playmaking Big.
in the draft, doc likes:
1-4 Jabari, Chet, Keegan,
10-14 Tari, Dyson but listen for offers, trade down,
Trade down targets: Agbaji, for instance.
Further down: Dalen Terry, Trevion Williams, Orlando Robinson, Kessler Edwards, Kofi Cockburn, etc, etc.
Plus future picks.
==================
As for improving the team around Porzingis and Beal. The outline of what I would look for to maximize a Porzingis led high post center team looks for these sorts of players:Spoiler:
There are gaps, but I'm saying I don't hate some of our pieces. Much of this is an exercise in saying "If we were better, we'd be better" of course. But you know, the Wes Wizards version of Porzingis was pretty good this year. Efficient. If sustainable it would be interesting to see a team with that guy, Wizards Zinger, surrounded by talent that suits a scheme that I personally find aesthetically pleasing. Because really that is the point of this team: to entertain Me.
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:...success with James Singleton coming from overseas....
wall_glizzy wrote:We won't do this, of course, because we're going to re-sign Brad and try to win with this core, but in a better world I'd be interested to see if Kira Lewis Jr could be had from the Pelicans on the cheap. Still young, has good potential that's been undermined by injuries, and he's a bit buried on the bench behind the other three 6'1" or shorter guards (McCollum, Alvarado, Graham) that have leapfrogged him in the rotation.
He's far from a sure thing, but Lewis is exactly the sort of low-risk, high-reward player I'd like to see us going after to fill the obvious holes we have in the PG room. Doesn't hurt that his main player comp is De'Aaron Fox, himself a sort of second coming of John Wall
Frichuela wrote:wall_glizzy wrote:We won't do this, of course, because we're going to re-sign Brad and try to win with this core, but in a better world I'd be interested to see if Kira Lewis Jr could be had from the Pelicans on the cheap. Still young, has good potential that's been undermined by injuries, and he's a bit buried on the bench behind the other three 6'1" or shorter guards (McCollum, Alvarado, Graham) that have leapfrogged him in the rotation.
He's far from a sure thing, but Lewis is exactly the sort of low-risk, high-reward player I'd like to see us going after to fill the obvious holes we have in the PG room. Doesn't hurt that his main player comp is De'Aaron Fox, himself a sort of second coming of John Wall
Sure. Worth a try. What can the Wiz offer the Pelicans in return? Would they take Todd of our hands? Unlikely, maybe Todd + 2nd rounder?