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Offseason Plan

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Re: Offseason Plan 

Post#561 » by B8RcDeMktfxC » Mon May 2, 2022 10:38 pm

Dark Faze wrote:[from NBA Games thread] Gobert is likely to get moved imo. I'm not sure to who or for what.

How about

Gobert to the Mavs
Dwight Powell, KCP, Kuzma and one of Ntilikina & Chriss to Utah
Brunson and Trey Burke to Wizards.
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Re: Offseason Plan 

Post#562 » by nate33 » Mon May 2, 2022 10:41 pm

B8RcDeMktfxC wrote:
Dark Faze wrote:[from NBA Games thread] Gobert is likely to get moved imo. I'm not sure to who or for what.

How about

Gobert to the Mavs
Dwight Powell, KCP, Kuzma and one of Ntilikina & Chriss to Utah
Brunson and Trey Burke to Wizards.

Utah doesn't want to trade one dollar for 4 quarters. They're not going to agree to a deal that doesn't even bring back a single above-average starter.
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Re: Offseason Plan 

Post#563 » by B8RcDeMktfxC » Mon May 2, 2022 10:49 pm

nate33 wrote:
B8RcDeMktfxC wrote:
Dark Faze wrote:[from NBA Games thread] Gobert is likely to get moved imo. I'm not sure to who or for what.

How about

Gobert to the Mavs
Dwight Powell, KCP, Kuzma and one of Ntilikina & Chriss to Utah
Brunson and Trey Burke to Wizards.

Utah doesn't want to trade one dollar for 4 quarters. They're not going to agree to a deal that doesn't even bring back a single above-average starter.

Probably. However, the Warriors-Utah trade idea proposed in the realgm headlines suggests Wiggins as the centre of the trade - and that doesn't seem like a dollar for a dollar either.

The only other way (for this 3-way) would be to substitute KP for KCP and Kuzma (and optionally take Frank/Chriss instead of them going to Utah), but is that really that great for the Wizards?
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Re: Offseason Plan 

Post#564 » by trast66 » Tue May 3, 2022 4:19 am

doclinkin wrote:
payitforward wrote:That's all totally accurate, doc. But, why should we be realistic in that sense?

Plus, thinking along those lines I don't imagine that any of us would have come up with the trade of John Wall for Russ -- & certainly not the trade of Russ to the Lakers. Not to mention the plethora of other completely surprising moves Tommy has engineered.
...

No one can call Tommy boring! No one kicks the can down the road in as surprising a fashion as Mr. Sheppard! :)


Sure but that frees us up to propose the wildest possible deals that would fit under the guidelines given. The question is not "What should we do?" but "What should Tommy do?" Not what *will* he do, which yeah, is clearly something difficult to guess.

What is the best team we can build under the restraints that Tommy has surely been given. And what gives us the best chance for the future?

If you (collective you) were the GM and given Ted's double bottom happy talk, what is the best you could do to build a good team now, and a chance for a future better team. See if we can 'out-Tommy' Tommy.

I suspect that means: build a team around Porzingis + a re-signed Beal, that produces a better record next year, without bankrupting the future, has a prayer of eventual contention. It's both a low bar, and a tricky challenge. Given that handicap, what squad can you build?


Agree with the premise that Tommy has constraints, similar to those that the majority of GMs work under. And Tommy agreeing to those constraints is why he has the job and Tim Connelly is still in Denver.

He is also constrained in that in 3 drafts the organization has not developed any young stars and he can’t trade a first round pick until 2028 due to protections on pick in the Wall trade.

He has neither young stars or draft picks.

One hope is to rise to the top 4 during lottery. Even the Wiz can pick a good player with that type of pick. Failing that, say we pick 10, draft best defensive wing player available and keep chugging along as a threat to make the play in.

But one of those top 4 picks changes the outlook.
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Re: Offseason Plan 

Post#565 » by dckingsfan » Tue May 3, 2022 2:27 pm

trast66 wrote:
doclinkin wrote:
payitforward wrote:That's all totally accurate, doc. But, why should we be realistic in that sense?

Plus, thinking along those lines I don't imagine that any of us would have come up with the trade of John Wall for Russ -- & certainly not the trade of Russ to the Lakers. Not to mention the plethora of other completely surprising moves Tommy has engineered.
...

No one can call Tommy boring! No one kicks the can down the road in as surprising a fashion as Mr. Sheppard! :)


Sure but that frees us up to propose the wildest possible deals that would fit under the guidelines given. The question is not "What should we do?" but "What should Tommy do?" Not what *will* he do, which yeah, is clearly something difficult to guess.

What is the best team we can build under the restraints that Tommy has surely been given. And what gives us the best chance for the future?

If you (collective you) were the GM and given Ted's double bottom happy talk, what is the best you could do to build a good team now, and a chance for a future better team. See if we can 'out-Tommy' Tommy.

I suspect that means: build a team around Porzingis + a re-signed Beal, that produces a better record next year, without bankrupting the future, has a prayer of eventual contention. It's both a low bar, and a tricky challenge. Given that handicap, what squad can you build?


Agree with the premise that Tommy has constraints, similar to those that the majority of GMs work under. And Tommy agreeing to those constraints is why he has the job and Tim Connelly is still in Denver.

He is also constrained in that in 3 drafts the organization has not developed any young stars and he can’t trade a first round pick until 2028 due to protections on pick in the Wall trade.

He has neither young stars or draft picks.

One hope is to rise to the top 4 during lottery. Even the Wiz can pick a good player with that type of pick. Failing that, say we pick 10, draft best defensive wing player available and keep chugging along as a threat to make the play in.

But one of those top 4 picks changes the outlook.

Hope is our plan...
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Re: Offseason Plan 

Post#566 » by Frichuela » Tue May 3, 2022 2:53 pm

trast66 wrote:
doclinkin wrote:
payitforward wrote:That's all totally accurate, doc. But, why should we be realistic in that sense?

Plus, thinking along those lines I don't imagine that any of us would have come up with the trade of John Wall for Russ -- & certainly not the trade of Russ to the Lakers. Not to mention the plethora of other completely surprising moves Tommy has engineered.
...

No one can call Tommy boring! No one kicks the can down the road in as surprising a fashion as Mr. Sheppard! :)


Sure but that frees us up to propose the wildest possible deals that would fit under the guidelines given. The question is not "What should we do?" but "What should Tommy do?" Not what *will* he do, which yeah, is clearly something difficult to guess.

What is the best team we can build under the restraints that Tommy has surely been given. And what gives us the best chance for the future?

If you (collective you) were the GM and given Ted's double bottom happy talk, what is the best you could do to build a good team now, and a chance for a future better team. See if we can 'out-Tommy' Tommy.

I suspect that means: build a team around Porzingis + a re-signed Beal, that produces a better record next year, without bankrupting the future, has a prayer of eventual contention. It's both a low bar, and a tricky challenge. Given that handicap, what squad can you build?


Agree with the premise that Tommy has constraints, similar to those that the majority of GMs work under. And Tommy agreeing to those constraints is why he has the job and Tim Connelly is still in Denver.

He is also constrained in that in 3 drafts the organization has not developed any young stars and he can’t trade a first round pick until 2028 due to protections on pick in the Wall trade.

He has neither young stars or draft picks.

One hope is to rise to the top 4 during lottery. Even the Wiz can pick a good player with that type of pick. Failing that, say we pick 10, draft best defensive wing player available and keep chugging along as a threat to make the play in.

But one of those top 4 picks changes the outlook.


Agreed. Though we have only a 13.9% chance to make the top-4 in the lottery...
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Re: Offseason Plan 

Post#567 » by payitforward » Tue May 3, 2022 6:20 pm

doclinkin wrote:
payitforward wrote:That's all totally accurate, doc. But, why should we be realistic in that sense?

Plus, thinking along those lines I don't imagine that any of us would have come up with the trade of John Wall for Russ -- & certainly not the trade of Russ to the Lakers. Not to mention the plethora of other completely surprising moves Tommy has engineered.
...

No one can call Tommy boring! No one kicks the can down the road in as surprising a fashion as Mr. Sheppard! :)


Sure but that frees us up to propose the wildest possible deals that would fit under the guidelines given. The question is not "What should we do?" but "What should Tommy do?" Not what *will* he do, which yeah, is clearly something difficult to guess.

What is the best team we can build under the restraints that Tommy has surely been given. And what gives us the best chance for the future?

If you (collective you) were the GM and given Ted's double bottom happy talk, what is the best you could do to build a good team now, and a chance for a future better team. See if we can 'out-Tommy' Tommy.

I suspect that means: build a team around Porzingis + a re-signed Beal, that produces a better record next year, without bankrupting the future, has a prayer of eventual contention. It's both a low bar, and a tricky challenge. Given that handicap, what squad can you build?

In terms of what he has accomplished in now 3 years, Tommy has achieved exactly one thing & one thing only: he's gotten rid of the contractual millstone that was around the neck of this team -- i.e. John's deal.

All the steps that were part of that move & which flowed from that move, brought us a few assets, but not much: the big plus was in getting past the John Wall era/contract.

Yes, he's also gotten rid of another millstone -- Bertans' contract -- but he doesn't get much credit there, since he's the one who put it around our necks in the first place.

As to the "low bar... tricky challenge," unless our R1 pick is an immediate stud, I'd say that, essentially, there is no obvious way whatever to "build a team around Porzingis + a re-signed Beal, that produces a better record next year, without bankrupting the future."

Sorry about that. To produce a better record, we need better players. Period. There is no other practical way to increase the number of games you win.

To have better players, either your own guys improve or you bring in better guys or both. It's fair to expect Kispert & Deni to improve. But it ain't locked in. You can hope Rui improves, but hope isn't a team-building strategy. Rinse & repeat for Bradley Beal. Ditto KCP, assuming (as I do) that we'll pick up his option: he's another player on the way down not up.

Aside from Rui, the other big target for "hope" is obviously Porzingis. He hasn't made any other team better, but "hope" doesn't trouble itself with history. That said, sure: if KP does for us what he's never yet done for a team, then that will be great. I'm all for it.

So, no, this team can't get better next year on the "build around Beal" plan. Can't & won't. What it can do is trade sub-par players (e.g. Kuzma) & guys on the way down (e.g. KCP) for picks & the youngest generation of players. But, we aren't likely to do that.
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Re: Offseason Plan 

Post#568 » by doclinkin » Thu May 5, 2022 9:11 am

payitforward wrote:In terms of what he has accomplished in now 3 years, Tommy has achieved exactly one thing & one thing only: he's gotten rid of the contractual millstone that was around the neck of this team -- i.e. John's deal.


And if we ink an injured and probably declining Beal to a large dollar deal then we are back at square one. Sure.

But to this:

As to the "low bar... tricky challenge," unless our R1 pick is an immediate stud, I'd say that, essentially, there is no obvious way whatever to "build a team around Porzingis + a re-signed Beal, that produces a better record next year, without bankrupting the future."

Sorry about that. To produce a better record, we need better players. Period. There is no other practical way to increase the number of games you win.


Young players do commonly get better. That is a statistically verifiable fact. Given that we are mostly stocked with younger players there is a stronger chance we improve compared to older teams in the league. Not much, not enough, but incrementally better.

Team and scheme can make a difference, as we have seen in Porzingis' (if his Wizards numbers are sustainable). Chemistry makes a difference as we have seen in the obverse in Dinwiddie. Adding this version of Porzingis adds a significantly better player than we started last year with.

We won 35 games last year. As I said, it's a low bar, 36 games is not out of reach. :clown:

We have a better than 1 in 10 chance of picking a franchise changing talent. Okay it's an 83% chance that we don't jump to the Top 4, and a non-negligible chance one or more of the lotto teams behind us jumps ahead. Still there will surely be at least one player at 10 or after who is better than many of those picked before him. And yes draft day trades do happen. Up or down.
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Re: Offseason Plan 

Post#569 » by doclinkin » Thu May 5, 2022 9:42 am

Long post.

tl;dr: Porzingis played well in a high post scheme.
Yes we need talent.
Like what? Outside shooting. Cutters and screeners. Wing rebounders/defenders. Another playmaking Big.

in the draft, doc likes:
1-4 Jabari, Chet, Keegan,
10-14 Tari, Dyson but listen for offers, trade down,
Trade down targets: Agbaji, for instance.
Further down: Dalen Terry, Trevion Williams, Orlando Robinson, Kessler Edwards, Kofi Cockburn, etc, etc.
Plus future picks.

==================
As for improving the team around Porzingis and Beal. The outline of what I would look for to maximize a Porzingis led high post center team looks for these sorts of players:
Spoiler:
PG.
Almost irrelevant if you have willing passers in other positions. Therefore: a wing defender fast enough to stay in front of opposing quicks. A guy who makes open 3's. Longer/stronger is better, so they are not the liability on switches. Wing rebounding would be nice from all guards.

Trade/FA Targets: Yes if we can land either Jones Bro I don't hate it. They are quick not big. But young active defenders, taking good care of the ball. Tre more than Tyus, sure. I'm not on the Brunson train who will likely cost too much in assets/cap space.
Re-sign Sato who showed good chemistry with Porzingis.

Draft: Dyson Daniels with a re-built jumpshot would be great. I dunno.
Trade back targets: Dalen Terry of Zona fits the description. Looks like a 2nd round steal to me.
On the team already: Deni with a reliable outside shot. I liked our Big lines late this year.

SG.
Back-up to Beal and combo guard to play across from him. Outside shooter who makes smart cuts and can hit outside shot. Nice if he has dribble-drive attack skills to force fouls on opposing players, but this is de-emphasized in today's league. Better if he is strong enough to retain the ball in traffic and finish through contact. We are back to looking for a Strong Guard nowadays.

Trade/FA: I don't hate the idea of Oladipo on a contract with options. When healthy he plays like a better defending Beal. Enough of a combo guard that he can share the ball with Beal. Back-up plan if Beal is swapped out mid-year. He didn't want to play here when he was a draftee, because he knew he would have to share with both Beal and Wall. Wall gone, maybe it is no longer an issue. Either way, all he costs is money and a roster spot. No loss of future draft picks. Still, I think he has priced himself out of our plans with his play in the postseason. Earlier in the year I thought we might get him on an injury discount.

Draft: Nobody at 10 or top 4 for me, but Agbaji is plug-and-play the same way Kispert was last year. A trade back doesn't suck. Rd 2, Dalen Terry also.

On the team already: Kispert may not have the handle of a guard but has played well here. I don't mind an extended look at him at the 2, if we are developing for the future let's see if we can start him here.

SF/PF
Crash forward. Here I want a guy who rebounds well in space, dives backdoor, defends big, hits an open 3, makes cuts, screens hard.
Stretch Forward. Face-up smart player who is a willing passer and makes smart cuts.

Trade/FA Target: Brandon Clarke if I'm dreaming. He doesn't hit a 3 but is otherwise the ideal complement to a finesse 5. Surround them with 3pt snipers and let him hoover rebounds. If I'm daydreaming, Beal wants to live closer to hometown St. Louis, play with Morant sounds appealing, and Tommy somehow hypnotizes Memphis to swap a package with Beal as the centerpiece. But ok, I'm supposed to be thinking how to build with Beal here. Fine.

Draft: Keegan Murray if we jump to 3 or 4. But: Tari Eason. I want Eason like, damn. I have a feeling. Could be wrong but as a Forward he feels to me the way Ben Wallace felt at C. Not claiming HOF status, just saying he feels like a game changer on defense with the right coaching, scheme, development.

Keegan has a fundamental smooth professionalism, like a Wing Forward Tim Duncan. Again not saying he's a HOFer, just saying he is mistake free and reliable. Does absolutely everything you would want at that position. Relentless competence.

On the team: Deni with a 3pt shot. Kuzma I guess? If you could iron out the streakiness and sinter his best years into an amalgam of his best 3FG% and rebounding. His numbers in late clock and clutch situations do stand out. If he were that guy more consistently, he'd be a solid solid player.

Or you know, Rui if he were the player that his most ardent supporters believe he could be? A Rui who rebounded and attacked as if he had Westbrook living inside his chest. And learned Team defense. I mean come on, JaVale MCGee has eventually turned into a savvy player. I dunno. Rui works hard. Is talented. If raw.

Bigs
A unicorn is a unicorn, tough to replicate, but if you get a smooth passing Big with a fair jumper, you're close enough. You still need a change of pace Big to bang on opposing defenders and relieve KP from defending monsters like EMBIID. Interior defender that can catch and finish for high % plays when KP is unavailable.

Trade/FA target: I still like Bryant signed with an injury discount, banking on recovery as an upside.

Draft: Trevion Williams. Trade back to get him if you get multiple picks. Trade up from 52 to get him, though the mocks say he will be there. I'd take a look at Walker Kessler with a late late 1st. I'd happily take Kofi Cockburn with our #52 or UFA if he falls. Kessler's block numbers are eye-popping, Kofi adds the muscle you need against some of the monster Bigs in the league, and I get the feeling we are trending away from finesse ball and having a deterrent in the middle will be useful.

But for a team that wants to play with a floor general at 5, Trevion Williams is in the Bam/Draymond mold I'm looking for. Smart, sweet passing, instant veteran as a senior, a willing back-up, moved to the bench to make room for the developing 7'4" Zach Edey. A plus/minus powerhouse who affects the final score even if his own numbers don't jump out.

I'd also look at 7' Orlando Robinson in that role. Bigs with good assist and steal numbers/low foul #s tend to defend well at the next level. No idea why he is mocked so late. Except that the Mountain West plays nobody. Inflates stats. Still: a nimble 7' with a jumper and athleticism, passes well, it seems like you could simulate a Unicorn with him on your scout team. Back-up Zinger.

On the team already: Gafford with continued development is fine. I'd love to see him add anything to his offensive game better than a dunk. I liked the superbig lines where he played next to KP and Deni. Chemistry with Deni to spoonfeed him lob dunks would be nice.

So, right. As usual if we don't jump to the top 4 (Jabari Smith, Chet Holmgren, Keegan, Keegan) or if my guy isn't there at 10-11 (Tari Eason, and I mean okay Dyson Daniels) I'd want to trade back for more picks, in this draft and future drafts. Yes we are rebuilding, but we might as well play with a system that maximizes the talents we do have. We are rebuilding with developing youth on the team, and can expect to add more in the near future as our current young players develop and take leadership roles. Every player on our roster is expendable with the right deal, but with the realistic understanding that we will probably re-ink Beal, and his buddy KCP, I think we could build a decent team around this framework:

Playmaking/Ballhandling: ....., Deni, Sato
Scoring Guard, Strong Guard: Beal with a rehabbed 3ball, replacement/understudy for Beal, Kispert
Crash Forward/Free Safety defender/Playmaking screener: ..., Deni, ....
Stretch Forward: ...., Kispert, KCP, clutch version of Kuzma?
Hi-post Playmaking Pivot: Porzingis, ...., rejuvenated Bryant
Defensive Utility Big/Lob threat: Gafford.

Draft picks: 1-4, or 10-14, 52.
Mid-season or Draft day trade bait: Beal, KCP/Kuzma, Rui, Ish, re-inked and rehabbed Bryant, Carey, Todd. In descending order of market value.


There are gaps, but I'm saying I don't hate some of our pieces. Much of this is an exercise in saying "If we were better, we'd be better" of course. But you know, the Wes Wizards version of Porzingis was pretty good this year. Efficient. If sustainable it would be interesting to see a team with that guy, Wizards Zinger, surrounded by talent that suits a scheme that I personally find aesthetically pleasing. Because really that is the point of this team: to entertain Me.
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Re: Offseason Plan 

Post#570 » by payitforward » Thu May 5, 2022 2:06 pm

doclinkin wrote:
payitforward wrote:As to the "low bar... tricky challenge," unless our R1 pick is an immediate stud, I'd say that, essentially, there is no obvious way whatever to "build a team around Porzingis + a re-signed Beal, that produces a better record next year, without bankrupting the future."

Sorry about that. To produce a better record, we need better players. Period. There is no other practical way to increase the number of games you win.


Young players do commonly get better. That is a statistically verifiable fact. Given that we are mostly stocked with younger players there is a stronger chance we improve compared to older teams in the league. Not much, not enough, but incrementally better.

Team and scheme can make a difference, as we have seen in Porzingis' (if his Wizards numbers are sustainable). Chemistry makes a difference as we have seen in the obverse in Dinwiddie. Adding this version of Porzingis adds a significantly better player than we started last year with.

We won 35 games last year. As I said, it's a low bar, 36 games is not out of reach. :clown:

We have a better than 1 in 10 chance of picking a franchise changing talent. Okay it's an 83% chance that we don't jump to the Top 4, and a non-negligible chance one or more of the lotto teams behind us jumps ahead. Still there will surely be at least one player at 10 or after who is better than many of those picked before him. And yes draft day trades do happen. Up or down.

Yeah I was guilty of overstatement. And grumpiness too! :)

But, I do think we're in a difficult spot. A 35-win team built around an overpaid player has a really hard row to hoe.

Still... if...

1. Rui shows substantial improvement in a few other parts of his game (to match or come near to the level of improvement he showed in his 3-pt. shooting this year),
2. Deni improves as much from year 2 to 3 as he did from 1 to 2,
3. Kispert improves as much in year 2 as Deni did this year,
4. Beal returns to his form of the previous few years,
5. We trade Kuzma for youth/picks (esp. if we manage, somehow, to get Tre - not Tyus - Jones for him),
6. We get a terrific rookie at #10,
7. We manage somehow to add another promising rookie,
8. Gaff stays Gaff,
9. We avoid making any other egregious mistakes.
10. Porzingis stays healthy & plays pretty well -- wch he did with us to end the year.

Then... we could be pretty good. We could even be on the right track!
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Re: Offseason Plan 

Post#571 » by DCZards » Thu May 5, 2022 2:33 pm

Hey, doc. A few responses to your long post.

Don’t underestimate the value of a play making PG who can be a game manager and coach on the court. I know that’s old school but that’s why I’m a fan of guys like CP3 and Jrue Holiday. We need to take the responsibility for running the team off of Beal so that he can be a true SG.

I’d like to team Beal with a scorer with the size and length to play—and defend—both some SG and SF. Mathurin (Ariz.) and Brahman (Ohio St.) would be my targets in the draft (assuming we’re picking around 10)…although I could be convinced to go with a Dyson or Washington. Mathurin in particular is extremely strong and physical for a SG/SF. I saw some Jimmy Butler-like toughness and desire from him during March Madness. Gotta like that. Mathurin is also a good 3pt shooter.

You mention Rui’s need to improve (which all here seem to agree with) but fail to cite his prowess as a 3 pt shooter, which is a REAL asset in today’s NBA.

I’m on board with Oladipo. He's shown during the playoffs that he still got some game…when healthy. Oladipo might be available for cheap on a “show me” contract. And while the Zards need to trend younger (as PIF so often reminds us) it’s also important to sprinkle in a few experienced vets.

As much as I like, Bryant (hard worker, quality person) I’m probably not bringing him back. I’m gonna give Carey a chance to earn minutes as the 3rd center. And maybe sign a Bismarck Biyombo-type on the cheap since KP is almost certain to miss games. Then again it might not be a bad idea to resign TB for his scoring should KP miss a lot of games.

Bottom line: It will be interesting to see what a team built around Beal & KP, improving youngsters like Deni, Rui & Kispert, a lottery pick, better PG play, and a wiser, more experienced Wes Jr. looks like. Still not a top 4 or 5 team in the east…but maybe something to build on.
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Re: Offseason Plan 

Post#572 » by payitforward » Thu May 5, 2022 4:59 pm

What you write makes sense, Zards -- whatever the limits of our ability to improve or our willingness to rebuild, we do need to address issues you mention.

Above all, you are certainly right about the value of a PG -- which is why I keep bringing up Tre Jones. I don't know that he can be shaken loose from SA, but the Spurs already have a young starter at the position in Dejounte Murray, so maybe they'd be interested in some kind of deal.

The problem with a guy like Oladipo is that he repeats the demonstrably failed Ernie strategy of putting bandaids on problems. We need to build a team with a long & sustainable path of growth going forward. Otherwise, we're always looking for the next bandaid.
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Re: Offseason Plan 

Post#573 » by payitforward » Thu May 5, 2022 7:27 pm

Doc, just reread the spoiler. Really great.

1. Keegan Murray looks like a can't-miss all star. Might be the best player in the draft. Won't be there at 10, obviously.
2. I'm with you on Tari Eason. If he's there at #10, I don't see how to take anyone else. Seems likely he will be.
3. I'd give my eye teeth to have a low R1 pick to use on Walker Kessler if he's there.
4. Trevion Williams --great call. He's going to be an extremely solid NBA player.

My nightmare is Tommy takes Jeremy Sochan, Johnny Davis or TyTy Washington (not to say that any of them can't wind up a good nba player...).
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Re: Offseason Plan 

Post#574 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Thu May 5, 2022 7:54 pm

doclinkin wrote:
payitforward wrote:In terms of what he has accomplished in now 3 years, Tommy has achieved exactly one thing & one thing only: he's gotten rid of the contractual millstone that was around the neck of this team -- i.e. John's deal.


And if we ink an injured and probably declining Beal to a large dollar deal then we are back at square one. Sure.

But to this:

As to the "low bar... tricky challenge," unless our R1 pick is an immediate stud, I'd say that, essentially, there is no obvious way whatever to "build a team around Porzingis + a re-signed Beal, that produces a better record next year, without bankrupting the future."

Sorry about that. To produce a better record, we need better players. Period. There is no other practical way to increase the number of games you win.


Young players do commonly get better. That is a statistically verifiable fact. Given that we are mostly stocked with younger players there is a stronger chance we improve compared to older teams in the league. Not much, not enough, but incrementally better.

Team and scheme can make a difference, as we have seen in Porzingis' (if his Wizards numbers are sustainable). Chemistry makes a difference as we have seen in the obverse in Dinwiddie. Adding this version of Porzingis adds a significantly better player than we started last year with.

We won 35 games last year. As I said, it's a low bar, 36 games is not out of reach. :clown:

We have a better than 1 in 10 chance of picking a franchise changing talent. Okay it's an 83% chance that we don't jump to the Top 4, and a non-negligible chance one or more of the lotto teams behind us jumps ahead. Still there will surely be at least one player at 10 or after who is better than many of those picked before him. And yes draft day trades do happen. Up or down.


Eureka!

Going into this draft there should only be two scenarios:

The first is the 83% more likely that we select with the 10th overall pick.
The second is that we move into the top four.

What I would do is create a rubric if I were selecting. I took a course in college called linear algebra. Matrices were utilized and constraints were part of the equation of selecting the best possible outcome.

I would assign a point system to every single player in this draft and create a tear similar to what we Dat does and others...

The player most likely to exceed expectations after 10 should be our Focus.

Walker Kessler is definitely underrated but he should not go until the 20s. Trevion Williams is a special player if selected in round 2... he should be a round one selection and if you get him after 18 he's going to pan out but that's not the value you pick. Doc Lincoln's guy Isaiah Mosley.... is one of those players at around 2 that's going to stick ...He will even stick if undrafted.

In the top four today I am feeling a little bit differently about the big kid out of Auburn the young guy with bounce.... however the Wizards really need a wing player so I can see why people are saying Jaden Ivey

In my heart of hearts I really want to see Eason in a Wizards uniform
Bye bye Beal.
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Re: Offseason Plan 

Post#575 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Thu May 5, 2022 7:56 pm

Honestly, I would do the Wizards and Lakers trade and this time I would give them Bradley Beal for aspiring Russell Westbrook... Google Miss translate I did say expiring
Bye bye Beal.
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Re: Offseason Plan 

Post#576 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Thu May 5, 2022 8:01 pm

doclinkin wrote:Long post.

tl;dr: Porzingis played well in a high post scheme.
Yes we need talent.
Like what? Outside shooting. Cutters and screeners. Wing rebounders/defenders. Another playmaking Big.

in the draft, doc likes:
1-4 Jabari, Chet, Keegan,
10-14 Tari, Dyson but listen for offers, trade down,
Trade down targets: Agbaji, for instance.
Further down: Dalen Terry, Trevion Williams, Orlando Robinson, Kessler Edwards, Kofi Cockburn, etc, etc.
Plus future picks.

==================
As for improving the team around Porzingis and Beal. The outline of what I would look for to maximize a Porzingis led high post center team looks for these sorts of players:
Spoiler:
PG.
Almost irrelevant if you have willing passers in other positions. Therefore: a wing defender fast enough to stay in front of opposing quicks. A guy who makes open 3's. Longer/stronger is better, so they are not the liability on switches. Wing rebounding would be nice from all guards.

Trade/FA Targets: Yes if we can land either Jones Bro I don't hate it. They are quick not big. But young active defenders, taking good care of the ball. Tre more than Tyus, sure. I'm not on the Brunson train who will likely cost too much in assets/cap space.
Re-sign Sato who showed good chemistry with Porzingis.

Draft: Dyson Daniels with a re-built jumpshot would be great. I dunno.
Trade back targets: Dalen Terry of Zona fits the description. Looks like a 2nd round steal to me.
On the team already: Deni with a reliable outside shot. I liked our Big lines late this year.

SG.
Back-up to Beal and combo guard to play across from him. Outside shooter who makes smart cuts and can hit outside shot. Nice if he has dribble-drive attack skills to force fouls on opposing players, but this is de-emphasized in today's league. Better if he is strong enough to retain the ball in traffic and finish through contact. We are back to looking for a Strong Guard nowadays.

Trade/FA: I don't hate the idea of Oladipo on a contract with options. When healthy he plays like a better defending Beal. Enough of a combo guard that he can share the ball with Beal. Back-up plan if Beal is swapped out mid-year. He didn't want to play here when he was a draftee, because he knew he would have to share with both Beal and Wall. Wall gone, maybe it is no longer an issue. Either way, all he costs is money and a roster spot. No loss of future draft picks. Still, I think he has priced himself out of our plans with his play in the postseason. Earlier in the year I thought we might get him on an injury discount.

Draft: Nobody at 10 or top 4 for me, but Agbaji is plug-and-play the same way Kispert was last year. A trade back doesn't suck. Rd 2, Dalen Terry also.

On the team already: Kispert may not have the handle of a guard but has played well here. I don't mind an extended look at him at the 2, if we are developing for the future let's see if we can start him here.

SF/PF
Crash forward. Here I want a guy who rebounds well in space, dives backdoor, defends big, hits an open 3, makes cuts, screens hard.
Stretch Forward. Face-up smart player who is a willing passer and makes smart cuts.

Trade/FA Target: Brandon Clarke if I'm dreaming. He doesn't hit a 3 but is otherwise the ideal complement to a finesse 5. Surround them with 3pt snipers and let him hoover rebounds. If I'm daydreaming, Beal wants to live closer to hometown St. Louis, play with Morant sounds appealing, and Tommy somehow hypnotizes Memphis to swap a package with Beal as the centerpiece. But ok, I'm supposed to be thinking how to build with Beal here. Fine.

Draft: Keegan Murray if we jump to 3 or 4. But: Tari Eason. I want Eason like, damn. I have a feeling. Could be wrong but as a Forward he feels to me the way Ben Wallace felt at C. Not claiming HOF status, just saying he feels like a game changer on defense with the right coaching, scheme, development.

Keegan has a fundamental smooth professionalism, like a Wing Forward Tim Duncan. Again not saying he's a HOFer, just saying he is mistake free and reliable. Does absolutely everything you would want at that position. Relentless competence.

On the team: Deni with a 3pt shot. Kuzma I guess? If you could iron out the streakiness and sinter his best years into an amalgam of his best 3FG% and rebounding. His numbers in late clock and clutch situations do stand out. If he were that guy more consistently, he'd be a solid solid player.

Or you know, Rui if he were the player that his most ardent supporters believe he could be? A Rui who rebounded and attacked as if he had Westbrook living inside his chest. And learned Team defense. I mean come on, JaVale MCGee has eventually turned into a savvy player. I dunno. Rui works hard. Is talented. If raw.

Bigs
A unicorn is a unicorn, tough to replicate, but if you get a smooth passing Big with a fair jumper, you're close enough. You still need a change of pace Big to bang on opposing defenders and relieve KP from defending monsters like EMBIID. Interior defender that can catch and finish for high % plays when KP is unavailable.

Trade/FA target: I still like Bryant signed with an injury discount, banking on recovery as an upside.

Draft: Trevion Williams. Trade back to get him if you get multiple picks. Trade up from 52 to get him, though the mocks say he will be there. I'd take a look at Walker Kessler with a late late 1st. I'd happily take Kofi Cockburn with our #52 or UFA if he falls. Kessler's block numbers are eye-popping, Kofi adds the muscle you need against some of the monster Bigs in the league, and I get the feeling we are trending away from finesse ball and having a deterrent in the middle will be useful.

But for a team that wants to play with a floor general at 5, Trevion Williams is in the Bam/Draymond mold I'm looking for. Smart, sweet passing, instant veteran as a senior, a willing back-up, moved to the bench to make room for the developing 7'4" Zach Edey. A plus/minus powerhouse who affects the final score even if his own numbers don't jump out.

I'd also look at 7' Orlando Robinson in that role. Bigs with good assist and steal numbers/low foul #s tend to defend well at the next level. No idea why he is mocked so late. Except that the Mountain West plays nobody. Inflates stats. Still: a nimble 7' with a jumper and athleticism, passes well, it seems like you could simulate a Unicorn with him on your scout team. Back-up Zinger.

On the team already: Gafford with continued development is fine. I'd love to see him add anything to his offensive game better than a dunk. I liked the superbig lines where he played next to KP and Deni. Chemistry with Deni to spoonfeed him lob dunks would be nice.

So, right. As usual if we don't jump to the top 4 (Jabari Smith, Chet Holmgren, Keegan, Keegan) or if my guy isn't there at 10-11 (Tari Eason, and I mean okay Dyson Daniels) I'd want to trade back for more picks, in this draft and future drafts. Yes we are rebuilding, but we might as well play with a system that maximizes the talents we do have. We are rebuilding with developing youth on the team, and can expect to add more in the near future as our current young players develop and take leadership roles. Every player on our roster is expendable with the right deal, but with the realistic understanding that we will probably re-ink Beal, and his buddy KCP, I think we could build a decent team around this framework:

Playmaking/Ballhandling: ....., Deni, Sato
Scoring Guard, Strong Guard: Beal with a rehabbed 3ball, replacement/understudy for Beal, Kispert
Crash Forward/Free Safety defender/Playmaking screener: ..., Deni, ....
Stretch Forward: ...., Kispert, KCP, clutch version of Kuzma?
Hi-post Playmaking Pivot: Porzingis, ...., rejuvenated Bryant
Defensive Utility Big/Lob threat: Gafford.

Draft picks: 1-4, or 10-14, 52.
Mid-season or Draft day trade bait: Beal, KCP/Kuzma, Rui, Ish, re-inked and rehabbed Bryant, Carey, Todd. In descending order of market value.


There are gaps, but I'm saying I don't hate some of our pieces. Much of this is an exercise in saying "If we were better, we'd be better" of course. But you know, the Wes Wizards version of Porzingis was pretty good this year. Efficient. If sustainable it would be interesting to see a team with that guy, Wizards Zinger, surrounded by talent that suits a scheme that I personally find aesthetically pleasing. Because really that is the point of this team: to entertain Me.
You need a passer like trevion who also knows how to play with a big man. He would be my prime target in this draft. I feel the same way about him as I felt about the one Blair D1 Blair DeJuan Blair there you go Google

I think there are many many Cutters and other players available and I really believe we don't even need to keep the draft pick if we can go the international route

In the past the Wizards have had success with James Singleton coming from overseas and we had a tremendous player in the year we got out of the small forward who is still playing with the Lakers now but he's on his last legs and I can't remember his name... he started with the Lakers he played with the Knicks he's back with the Lakers now and I still can't remember his nam

I thought I would match your long post with a long ramble just because


Why not bring Dez Wells in for tryout? What about Melo Trimble? Mac McClung got some run with the Lakers and I really believe there are a lot of guys who know how to shoot and there are a lot of guys who know how to jump and dunk and there are two players that can do one or the other or both

I would pretty much give Bradley Beal away to the Lakers for Russell Westbrook just because and for Good Karma and I would bring in Victor Oladipo at a pretty hefty salary

All I want from the Lakers is talent that they typically overlooked in the form of young guys maybe Tucker whoever is a statistically good player because they're desperate and they'll give them up
Bye bye Beal.
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Re: Offseason Plan 

Post#577 » by payitforward » Fri May 6, 2022 8:37 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:...success with James Singleton coming from overseas....

Awright! A James Singleton reference.... Terrific player.

Here he is still playing in 2015 in the (then) D League:
Breaking News: In a shocking development, Wizards owner Ted Leonsis has sold the NBA franchise to a consortium of participants in a discussion board devoted to the team on realgm.com. Details to follow....
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Re: Offseason Plan 

Post#578 » by wall_glizzy » Mon May 9, 2022 6:34 pm

We won't do this, of course, because we're going to re-sign Brad and try to win with this core, but in a better world I'd be interested to see if Kira Lewis Jr could be had from the Pelicans on the cheap. Still young, has good potential that's been undermined by injuries, and he's a bit buried on the bench behind the other three 6'1" or shorter guards (McCollum, Alvarado, Graham) that have leapfrogged him in the rotation.

He's far from a sure thing, but Lewis is exactly the sort of low-risk, high-reward player I'd like to see us going after to fill the obvious holes we have in the PG room. Doesn't hurt that his main player comp is De'Aaron Fox, himself a sort of second coming of John Wall :)
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Re: Offseason Plan 

Post#579 » by Frichuela » Mon May 9, 2022 6:40 pm

wall_glizzy wrote:We won't do this, of course, because we're going to re-sign Brad and try to win with this core, but in a better world I'd be interested to see if Kira Lewis Jr could be had from the Pelicans on the cheap. Still young, has good potential that's been undermined by injuries, and he's a bit buried on the bench behind the other three 6'1" or shorter guards (McCollum, Alvarado, Graham) that have leapfrogged him in the rotation.

He's far from a sure thing, but Lewis is exactly the sort of low-risk, high-reward player I'd like to see us going after to fill the obvious holes we have in the PG room. Doesn't hurt that his main player comp is De'Aaron Fox, himself a sort of second coming of John Wall :)


Sure. Worth a try. What can the Wiz offer the Pelicans in return? Would they take Todd of our hands? Unlikely, maybe Todd + 2nd rounder?
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Re: Offseason Plan 

Post#580 » by wall_glizzy » Mon May 9, 2022 6:55 pm

Frichuela wrote:
wall_glizzy wrote:We won't do this, of course, because we're going to re-sign Brad and try to win with this core, but in a better world I'd be interested to see if Kira Lewis Jr could be had from the Pelicans on the cheap. Still young, has good potential that's been undermined by injuries, and he's a bit buried on the bench behind the other three 6'1" or shorter guards (McCollum, Alvarado, Graham) that have leapfrogged him in the rotation.

He's far from a sure thing, but Lewis is exactly the sort of low-risk, high-reward player I'd like to see us going after to fill the obvious holes we have in the PG room. Doesn't hurt that his main player comp is De'Aaron Fox, himself a sort of second coming of John Wall :)


Sure. Worth a try. What can the Wiz offer the Pelicans in return? Would they take Todd of our hands? Unlikely, maybe Todd + 2nd rounder?


There's some salary cap weirdness that I don't fully understand here, but yeah something like that. No idea how New Orleans is valuing Lewis currently, but they could do anything from a straight salary dump via Kira-for-Ish trade (since Ish's deal is fully non-guaranteed next year), or take back Todd, a second round pick, add on a center swap of Willy Hernangomez for Vernon Carey, etc. Just two teams diving in each other's dumpsters at that point.

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