Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 8

[queridiculo]

Sick to my stomach that the Wizards passed on Tari Eason for a bust guard.

[payitforward]

Those who do not learn from the past repeat the past.
Those who do not admit their mistakes make them over & over.
Nor is this hindsight -- not in the slightest.

Hindsight is when you say "if I'd have been smart, I would have seen what a good prospect Tari Eason was."

Many of us *did* see that. In real time not hindsight.

Just as some of us saw, in real time, what good prospects Brandon Clarke, Matisse Thybulle, Grant Williams, Keldon Johnson & Daniel Gafford were in 2019. & suggested ways to turn the pick we used on Rui into at least 3 of those players.

& just as a few of us saw what a good prospect Tyrese Halliburton was in 2020. & Desmond Bane. & Xavier Tillman. & suggested that we should pick Halliburton, & mentioned that Bane could have been ours if we'd taken the pick offered us for Bertans, & called on us to trade up for Tlllman.

& just as some of us thought it was idiotic to trade a #22 pick for Aaron Holiday & a #31, & that -- if you'd made that dumb trade you could at least have turned it into the #34 & #36 to pick up Dosunmu & Herb Jones (or 2 other prospects).

All that said, of course Johnny Davis may be "fine," whatever that means.

What it doesn't mean is that picking Johnny Davis at #10 in the 2022 draft was a smart choice. It wasn't. & many of us said so right on the spot. Nor was "trading back with OKC" the only good way to use the pick. It wasn't even the best way, IMO.

And anyway, if you screw up 9 drafts in a row (as we have done from 2014 - 2022), you sure as h*ll better expect people to mention the fact!

& if you've been a 30-something win team (as we have been the last 5 years -- &, on average, the last dozen or more years!) maybe it's time to start looking at what you are doing wrong, don't you think?

...I hate this cherry picking of history. Grant Williams wasn't mentioned until he got more playing time for Boston this past year...

I mentioned him several times in the run up to the '19 draft, although my first choice (in my complicated idea of how to trade down w/ Boston) was & still would be to take Thybulle at 22 & extract value from Philly, since Brand wanted him a lot. If Thybulle had been gone (i.e. b/c Memphis had taken him at 21 -- since we took Clarke at 20) my second choice would have been Keldon Johnson rather than Grant Williams.

...you also use to mention Michel Porter JR. You don't any more? Because he's injury prone and he's on one of the worst contract in the league and doesn't support your argument anymore....

Huh?
He went in 2018, & we couldn't have picked him, b/c he was gone when our turn came. &, of course, he would have been a great pick had he been on the board! My bargain model crystal ball doesn't have the "foresee future injuries" feature!

But, you're still right -- just substitute Zhaire Smith, whom I no doubt would have taken at our #15 in 2018 & who has been a complete bust.

In fact, the two guys Zards liked best (if I'm remembering right) -- Mitchell Robinson & Robert Williams -- have turned out to be among the top handful of picks that year. Taken #36 & #25 respectively.

Remember my main point, Gamby? That guys are never picked in the accurate order of how good they are in the league? 2018 offers one of the most striking examples of GMs essentially getting it all wrong.

...I'm not saying the conclusion is wrong. We could have drafted better but that's true for almost 20 teams every single year. I just don't think cherry picking dude who well out preformed there draft position and saying we should have taken them 30 spots over guys who were rated at the spots where we took them. I just don't like the argument. I'm not saying you're wrong.

Again... that's a fair point. In fact, again... it's the very point I made! Only, the point simply doesn't bear on what I wrote. Not in any way.

This board, overall, did NOT have Johnny Davis rated as the #10 prospect. & it's not just this board: Hollinger rated him #41!

Specifically, what I wanted to do was trade down SA, hoping to get their #20, #25 & #38. Or with OKC to get their 12 & 30. Or w/ Houston for their 17 & 26. Of course, that's not to say that any of these trades was available. If I was using the #10, I'd have been very likely to take Eason. Not that it matters who I would have taken -- I pay no price if I turn out to be wrong, which makes decision-making much easier.

[AFM]

Did Hollinger really have him at 41, that’s tragic

[payitforward]

Did Hollinger really have him at 41, that’s tragic

My bad -- actually Hollinger had him at 29 on his big board

OTOH, Hollinger's board looked very different from anything else I saw; it contained many anomalies. E.g. he had Josh Minott & Gabe Brown at 10 & 15 respectively. Both were picked in the mid-40s.

You can look at his list here: https://www.reddit.com/r/NBA_Draft/comments/vdswfq/hollingers_top_75_nba_draft_prospects_jabari/

[doclinkin]

Eason is a phenom. & you mentioned him first. I just followed up by looking at his numbers & video & agreeing a thousand per cent. He looks like he'll be a great player.

Getting him at #17... that looks like the highest-value draft pick since SA nabbed Kawhi at 15 & the Bulls got Butler at 30. I can't think of any comparable value grab since then.... Well... I guess Giannis too, huh?

Not first, but loudly. And yeah, he went #17. We could have had him, and I knew we wouldn't and knew I personally would regret it, loudly.

But yeah that was what I said leading up to the draft. That he was surely the highest upside player mocked as late as he was and the most likely candidate for that Kawhi/Giannis award: highest upside most undervalued, best value. I hedged my bets by saying I wanted him on a trade down, but that for me he was surely the player I'd regret at that Stef Curry way of: I knew this cat was going to be good and we coulda had him.

[payitforward]

Eason is a phenom. & you mentioned him first. I just followed up by looking at his numbers & video & agreeing a thousand per cent. He looks like he'll be a great player.

Getting him at #17... that looks like the highest-value draft pick since SA nabbed Kawhi at 15 & the Bulls got Butler at 30. I can't think of any comparable value grab since then.... Well... I guess Giannis too, huh?

Not first, but loudly. And yeah, he went #17. We could have had him, and I knew we wouldn't and knew I personally would regret it, loudly.

But yeah that was what I said leading up to the draft. That he was surely the highest upside player mocked as late as he was and the most likely candidate for that Kawhi/Giannis award: highest upside most undervalued, best value. I hedged my bets by saying I wanted him on a trade down, but that for me he was surely the player I'd regret at that Stef Curry way of: I knew this cat was going to be good and we coulda had him.

We could have just taken him at #10, sure.
But, there would have been nothing wrong with an attempt to trade down a few spots. There was really no reason at all to imagine that anyone would take Eason at 10.

As it turns out, the ideal trade would have been with Houston for 17 & 26.
&, since Houston wound up trading 26 to Minny for 29 & R2 picks in 2025 & 2027, we might have done the same.

We'd have come out of the 2022 draft with Tari Eason & Ty Ty Washington (or Koloko or Procida) -- plus those 2 future picks.
Or we might have used that 29 to trade down & get Kennedy Chandler & a third rookie plus 2 future picks.

But, we didn't.
Instead, we tried to trade up.

Gee, it would have been great if someone had given us a higher pick for our #10 & one of our crummy players.
But, then, really... why would anyone do something that dumb?

If you remember, I suggested we try to trade our #10 to SA for their 20, 25 & 38. Who knows if it would have been possible, but if so, we miss on Eason -- -- but we would have been able to take Malakhi Branham at 20, trade the 25 down for 29 plus 2 future R2 picks, & then take lets say Christian Koloko (or whoever you prefer) at 29, plus Kennedy Chandler at 38.

Even without getting Eason, we'd have added 3 rookies w/ a ton of potential, plus 2 future draft picks.
Then sign Kenneth Lofton Jr. undrafted. Of course.

We'd have been well on the way to rebuilding this pathetic dead-end team.
Beats drafting Johnny Davis I'd say....

[AFM]

You’ll all be eating crow when Johnnys putting up 10 and 4 three years from now.

[FAH1223]

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[nate33]

I'd MUCH rather have Wiggins at 4 years $109M than Beal at 5 years $250M

[long suffrin' boulez fan]

I'd MUCH rather have Wiggins at 4 years $109M than Beal at 5 years $250M

I was thinking the exact same thing. I’m not sure that there’s much at all to separate the two.

[payitforward]

I'd MUCH rather have Wiggins at 4 years $109M than Beal at 5 years $250M

No doubt about it!

It's interesting that Jordan Poole got a much richer deal than Wiggins.

[AFM]

Not really. Poole is 4+ years younger. Wiggins WYSIWYG. I'm sure GS is banking on Poole continuing to improve.

[FAH1223]

Read on Twitter

Clarke is better than Rui. Rui should not be commanding more unless he has some insane season.

I'd MUCH rather have Wiggins at 4 years $109M than Beal at 5 years $250M

No doubt about it!

It's interesting that Jordan Poole got a much richer deal than Wiggins.

Wiggins gave GSW a discount for sure. Probably because he's comfortable there now.

[payitforward]

Memphis just extended Brandon Clarke for 4 years/$52m. That's one of the highest value non-rookie contracts in the league. What a great FO that is...! Unbelievable. Man do I wish those guys ran the Wizards!

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Someone please explain this trade to me:

"Rockets today announced they have traded Sterling Brown, Trey Burke, Marquese Chriss, and David Nwaba to Oklahoma City in exchange for Derrick Favors, Maurice Harkless, Ty Jerome, Théo Maledon, a 2026 second round pick and cash considerations."

Note that OKC had acquired Harkless for Vit Krecji (whom they took with the 2020 R2 pick we traded to them, b/c we are draft-day idiots) the day before they traded him to Houston.

I note that the Rockets have 16 guys with guaranteed contracts. Plus they already have 2 guys signed to 2-way contracts.

In addition, they have options on Garrison Mathews & Kenyon Martin Jr. -- which they won't be able to pick up. I'd certainly like to have Martin instead of Todd....

Out with deck chairs, in with really comfy slippers and some craft beers. In addition to the deck chairs there's probably lots of loose change perhaps a gold pendant and and a really nice watch or two. PLUS, we slipped in some vintage wines if you're into that sort of thing along with slippers.

Time to get Garrison Mathews back BTW

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Read on Twitter

Clarke is better than Rui. Rui should not be commanding more unless he has some insane season.

I'd MUCH rather have Wiggins at 4 years $109M than Beal at 5 years $250M

No doubt about it!

It's interesting that Jordan Poole got a much richer deal than Wiggins.

Wiggins gave GSW a discount for sure. Probably because he's comfortable there now.

Anti-Beal ian of Wiggins.

Check THIS OUT. I'd take Aaron Wiggins and no Bradley Beal over what the Wizards have. However, Andrew Wiggins is arguably just as good or better than Bradley Beal. The difference? He has won a chip and HE KNOWS HIS VALUE AND HE DOESN'T HAVE TO BANK BLEED AT TEAM DRY.

Brad did the right thing.

Wizards are not winning ISH and ISH SMITH is balling somewhere else. BEAL GONNA GET PAID AND THEN GO WIN I HOPE...

Golden State has issues with Draymond Green and Jordan Poole. STAY TUNED
LA CLIPPERS got John Wall back with a vengeance. Reggie Jackson plus plus plus equals Beal.
LA LAKERS have the EASIEST DEAL OF ALL. Westbrook back to DC

Andrew Wiggins did what could keep HIMSELF, Draymond, and Jordan Poole happy in the long/short run.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Not really. Poole is 4+ years younger. Wiggins WYSIWYG. I'm sure GS is banking on Poole continuing to improve.

Likely. However, not necessarily.

Draymond punching out Jordan Poole has mixed things up. They don't need Gafford but they could PROBABLY find a way to accomodate a three team deal involving Kuzma and or Beal or Hachimura plus filler like GILL and GIBSON.

Kuz, Gibson, Gill and they release Gill... for Draymond but WE NEED TO KEEP KUZ because of the FLINT CONNECTION

We are not going to trade Porzingis.... HOWEVER....

[gambitx777]

What is the god green **** are the rockets doing giving that kind of money to Kevin Porter Jr ...

Edit only 15 of the 85 is garunteed.... Still Jesus

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using RealGM mobile app

[mhd]

There is no WAY Turd ever gets near the lux tax. He only cares about money, and GSW lux tax payments allows him to fatten his wallet.

[payitforward]

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Clarke is better than Rui. Rui should not be commanding more unless he has some insane season.

Given the slooooow rate at which Rui has developed, there would seem to be literally no possibility that Rui, in his entire career, could ever have a season with numbers anywhere near as good as Clarke's rookie year.

Before you question that, you might want to look at the two guys' numbers each of their 3 seasons.

Or, for that matter, at the two guys' numbers their last year at Gonzaga.