Official Trade Thread Part XLV

[prime1time]

Our pick back and 3 seconds id probably take but who's the player coming back.

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We've been accumulating 2nds, we'll be using some on stashes as it is. I don't think we can afford to send Gafford, our only big man, away for 2nds without some real value returning.

Mitch Robinson and our heavily protected 1st? Sure, I'd make that deal.

You don't have to draft and stash you can use them as currency. You can use seconds to send to cap strapped play off teams for late firsts on draft day. Especially with the new cap rules. Getting 2-3 players in the mid second round at the cost of one around 20-27 is gonna be popular in the coming years.

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Excuse my ignorance but what are these new cap rules that you are referring to?

[nate33]

We've been accumulating 2nds, we'll be using some on stashes as it is. I don't think we can afford to send Gafford, our only big man, away for 2nds without some real value returning.

Mitch Robinson and our heavily protected 1st? Sure, I'd make that deal.

You don't have to draft and stash you can use them as currency. You can use seconds to send to cap strapped play off teams for late firsts on draft day. Especially with the new cap rules. Getting 2-3 players in the mid second round at the cost of one around 20-27 is gonna be popular in the coming years.

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Excuse my ignorance but what are these new cap rules that you are referring to?

They altered the CBA last year.

The main features are a harder salary cap floor, and more onerous penalties for exceeding the luxtax. Not just fines, but there are significant limitations on trade and free agency flexibility.

The end result is that teams with high payrolls have even more incentive to get under the luxtax, at the same time there are fewer teams substantially below the cap who have the flexibility to absorb bad money and help out the over-the-tax teams. This could result in better leverage for us when we make "bring out your dead" trades to absorb bad contracts from other teams.

[nate33]

I expect us to have trade talks with New Orleans to absorb Kira Lewis from their payroll and get them under the tax. The question is, what incentive would they provide?

[nate33]

Read on Twitter

Interesting tweet by wizzy here.

Marks agrees with what I've been arguing on the Trade Board for the last few weeks. Kuzma is a valuable asset - more valuable than guys like Siakam and Lavine. It's going to require multiple firsts to pry him from the Wizards. And furthermore, the Wizards don't really have much interest in moving him since you still need some guys that can actually play.

He also said that Gafford is a "great contract" and it's going to take first round pick(s) to get him too. The Wizards are unlikely to move him as well.

He said the guy to watch is Tyus Jones. He is the guy that teams want and the Wizards are likely to make available.

[penbeast0]

If Tyus is willing to accept a declining contract at market value like Kuzma and Deni, would you still want to deal him or could you accept him as the answer at PG for the next few years?

[Frichuela]

Read on Twitter

Interesting tweet by wizzy here.

Marks agrees with what I've been arguing on the Trade Board for the last few weeks. Kuzma is a valuable asset - more valuable than guys like Siakam and Lavine. It's going to require multiple firsts to pry him from the Wizards. And furthermore, the Wizards don't really have much interest in moving him since you still need some guys that can actually play.

He also said that Gafford is a "great contract" and it's going to take first round pick(s) to get him too. The Wizards are unlikely to move him as well.

He said the guy to watch is Tyus Jones. He is the guy that teams want and the Wizards are likely to make available.

This is where I fundamentally disagree. The Wizards should be very focused on filling up their draft stock with more “bites of the apple”.

If Kuz value is that high and they can get either 2 firsts (e.g. LAC 24 1st and MIA 25 1st from OKC) or a valuable young player + a 1st (e.g. J Walker + OKC 24 1st from IND or P Williams + POR 24 Lot protected 1st from CHI), they MUST do the trade. Another benefit is that moving Kuz will put the ball more in the hands of Deni and Bilal, enhancing their development.

[nate33]

If Tyus is willing to accept a declining contract at market value like Kuzma and Deni, would you still want to deal him or could you accept him as the answer at PG for the next few years?

If we draft a PG, I'd say no. But if we drafted a guy like Sarr, I'd want a professional PG like Tyus Jones to help him develop. I wouldn't mind at all a long term plan that goes like this:

2024: Draft Sarr. Sign Tyus to a declining 4-year contract
2025: Draft a star-caliber wing scorer (Cooper Flagg being ideal)
2026: Draft our PG of the future. Tyus shows him the ropes.
2027: Trade Tyus in his final (cheapest) year for pick capital and turn over the reins to our 2026 PG draft pick.

But if we draft Topic or Dillingham this summer, then I wouldn't bother resigning Tyus.

[nate33]

This is where I fundamentally disagree. The Wizards should be very focused on filling up their draft stock with more “bites of the apple”.

If Kuz value is that high and they can get either 2 firsts (e.g. LAC 24 1st and MIA 25 1st from OKC) or a valuable young player + a 1st (e.g. J Walker + OKC 24 1st from IND or P Williams + POR 24 Lot protected 1st from CHI), they MUST do the trade. Another benefit is that moving Kuz will put the ball more in the hands of Deni and Bilal, enhancing their development.

I'm not sure it's such a disagreement.

I think Marks' point is that the Wizards aren't particularly motivated to move Kuzma - at least not for a single, late FRP. They need a guy like Kuzma in the short and intermediate term, and he only gets cheaper as time goes on so there's no rush to trade him for the best deal available at the moment. But if someone happens along and offers two quality FRP's for him, then of course the Wizards would have to consider it. Kuzma is valuable to the Wizards, but he certainly isn't untouchable.

[Frichuela]

This is where I fundamentally disagree. The Wizards should be very focused on filling up their draft stock with more “bites of the apple”.

If Kuz value is that high and they can get either 2 firsts (e.g. LAC 24 1st and MIA 25 1st from OKC) or a valuable young player + a 1st (e.g. J Walker + OKC 24 1st from IND or P Williams + POR 24 Lot protected 1st from CHI), they MUST do the trade. Another benefit is that moving Kuz will put the ball more in the hands of Deni and Bilal, enhancing their development.

I'm not sure it's such a disagreement.

I think Marks' point is that the Wizards aren't particularly motivated to move Kuzma - at least not for a single, late FRP. They need a guy like Kuzma in the short and intermediate term, and he only gets cheaper as time goes on so there's no rush to trade him for the best deal available at the moment. But if someone happens along and offers two quality FRP's for him, then of course the Wizards would have to consider it. Kuzma is valuable to the Wizards, but he certainly isn't untouchable.

In that case, you are right!

My worry is our FO may “overvalue” Kuz as a vet leader. His shot jacking and selfish playing lately has irritated me and it’s not helping on the developmental side, taking possessions away from the two only players that matter for the future: Bilal and Deni.

[nate33]

This is where I fundamentally disagree. The Wizards should be very focused on filling up their draft stock with more “bites of the apple”.

If Kuz value is that high and they can get either 2 firsts (e.g. LAC 24 1st and MIA 25 1st from OKC) or a valuable young player + a 1st (e.g. J Walker + OKC 24 1st from IND or P Williams + POR 24 Lot protected 1st from CHI), they MUST do the trade. Another benefit is that moving Kuz will put the ball more in the hands of Deni and Bilal, enhancing their development.

I'm not sure it's such a disagreement.

I think Marks' point is that the Wizards aren't particularly motivated to move Kuzma - at least not for a single, late FRP. They need a guy like Kuzma in the short and intermediate term, and he only gets cheaper as time goes on so there's no rush to trade him for the best deal available at the moment. But if someone happens along and offers two quality FRP's for him, then of course the Wizards would have to consider it. Kuzma is valuable to the Wizards, but he certainly isn't untouchable.

In that case, you are right!

My worry is our FO may “overvalue” Kuz as a vet leader. His shot jacking and selfish playing lately has irritated me and it’s not helping on the developmental side, taking possessions away from the two only players that matter for the future: Bilal and Deni.

I'm not too worried about Kuzma taking away possessions from Bilal and Deni. Bilal is a terrible ball handler at the moment and has no capacity to take on significantly more usage. He is going to need an offseason of work.

And Deni isn't all that good at going after a set defense either. He needs to attack a defense that's already in rotation. I think Deni is currently best used as a 4th option - a guy who attacks a rotating defense or victimizes a weak defender if teams make the mistake of trying to "hide" him on Deni. And that's pretty much the role Deni is in right now. I think Deni's ultimate upside is potentially a 3rd option scorer - a guy who can pick up the slack if the two primary scorers are playing poorly, or a guy who can be the primary initiator on the 2nd unit - sort of like Jaylen Brown in Boston or Mikal Bridges two years ago in Phoenix. Deni is getting a little taste of that role right now. He's not yet ready to take on the role full time, but I think the developmental opportunities are being given to him.

[dckingsfan]

On a really good team, isn't Deni a 4th or 5th option on offense and a 2nd best defender (with a good defensive C)?

[FAH1223]

Read on Twitter

[Frichuela]

Indy fans on Twitter are proposing the following. I guess as a plan B if the Siakam trade talks fail..

Read on Twitter

?s=20

I think this package is too light. I''d push for DEN 1st 2025 from ORL and Nembhard from IND too.

[nate33]

Indy fans on Twitter are proposing the following. I guess as a plan B if the Siakam trade talks fail..

Read on Twitter

?s=20

I think this package is too light. I''d push for DEN 1st 2025 from ORL and Nembhard from IND too.

Agreed. We need two FRP's if we are going to trade Kuzma. I doubt that any team will currently pay that for him at the moment, but that's okay. There is no urgency to move off of him right now. I'd rather be patient. I think the odds are good that his trade value will improve over time. First of all, he gets cheaper each year. Secondly, a new coach might save Kuzma from himself and force him to have better shot selection. Third, if the Wizards get marginally better and play like a normal bad 25-win team instead of a historically bad 15-win team, that might help. Fourth, the right team might emerge who is in dire need of a scoring forward for a playoff run and has two picks to trade. Fifth, Kuzma could go on a hot streak.

If all else fails, I'm pretty confident that we could get a FRP for Kuzma in a trade next year, so there's no real harm in waiting.

[Rafael122]

So Siakam's deal is 2 first round picks this year, plus a future first. Doubt Toppin, Smith, Brown are long term fits in Toronto, but Kuzma is on a team friendly contract so at this point 3 FRP's are the floor IMO.

I'd look to a team like OKC, who could probably use a guy like Kuzma. They currently own the 12th, 14th, and 24th pick in the draft. Something like Kuzma for Bertans/Poku plus picks works.

[nate33]

Thread continued here