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The wiz should sign both Wall and Westbrook and just show us what they really about…

which is selling tickets and mediocracy


Just sayin…

This would actually be really funny to watch. It would definitely propel the tank so I'm all for it.

They could get in a big fight over whether their nickname should be Westwall or Wallbrook

montestewart wrote:They could get in a big fight over whether their nickname should be Westwall or Wallbrook

How about Brick Wall?

What's weird is that they were better off just waiving Wall instead of trading him and a first for Westbrook. They're litterally going to end up with an overpaid Kuzma, a bum (Todd) and a possible loss of a first round pick in this whole fiasco.

TGW wrote:What's weird is that they were better off just waiving Wall instead of trading him and a first for Westbrook. They're litterally going to end up with an overpaid Kuzma, a bum (Todd) and a possible loss of a first round pick in this whole fiasco.

The Wall for Westbrook trade got them into the 8th seed, ultimately landing them 2 home playoff games. As far as Ted is concerned, it was a resounding success. One protected 1st round pick for however many millions of dollars in revenue for 2 home playoff games.

And frankly, from a talent standpoint, the trade paid off. Not only did they make the playoffs, but the Westbrook ultimately was traded for Dinwiddie, Kuzma and KCP, who (along with Bertans) were ultimately traded for Porzingis and Morris. So it was Wall plus Bertans (signed to a really bad contract) plus a protected FRP for Porzingis, Kuzma, Morris, Barton and a late first (which was unfortunately traded for Holiday and a 2RP which became Todd).

I'd like to simply see it for the soap opera value as it would ultimately become a **** show. Either guy. Both are done. Toast. The shot selection is insane for both a this stage of their career. Westbrook's awareness of his own shortcomings is nonexistant and now he regularly takes plays off on defense. Wall is just a shell of his former shell with a lack of speed, shocklingly weak handle and a distressed jumper showing the old klunky kentucky form but being hoisted at an astronomical rate. Simply put, Wall's basketball skills have regressed. He looks like he's barely picked up a basketball the last few years.

TGW wrote:What's weird is that they were better off just waiving Wall instead of trading him and a first for Westbrook. They're litterally going to end up with an overpaid Kuzma, a bum (Todd) and a possible loss of a first round pick in this whole fiasco.

I think in hindsight trading wall for Westbrook worked out….

But everything after?

Looks like the wiz are still one of The worse led front office in nba. Kuz KP and Beal should be in different uniforms today

I want Westbrook to land with a team that can go up against the LA Lickers in the playoffs, and hand Lebron his arse for doing him dirty.

TGW wrote:What's weird is that they were better off just waiving Wall instead of trading him and a first for Westbrook. They're litterally going to end up with an overpaid Kuzma, a bum (Todd) and a possible loss of a first round pick in this whole fiasco.

They also got Morris&Barton, half a year of Aaron Holiday&Harrell, and Vernon Carey and a 2nd round pick I think?

If they would’ve flipped Kuzma and Morris for draft picks/young players, and never made the god awful Aaron Holiday trade&Todd pick, it would’ve been great.

If they traded Beal and Porzingis and just committed to fully tank and rebuild, it would be even better.

Can Wall make it to the top of the scoring table with his knees these days?

I kid, I kid. A reunion tour would be meaningless and counterproductive, but admittedly fun. David Lee Roth *and* Sammy Hagar!

You tank fanatics are driving me nuts.

The NBA has changed. First, it takes time for a player to develop into a franchise player, and by the time they are a franchise player, they are either going to get a max contract or be in a position to force a sign and trade (devaluing the need to draft them).

Second, it is quite clear that these NBA executives don’t know how to evaluate college players who have only generally played 1 seasons. NBA executives with the top five picks have had at best a 30% chance at getting a player who is worth tanking for over the past decade.

Over the past decade, I can only find 15 players taken in the first 5 picks that people might say they were worth tanking for (but for some of these players, I know no one would really want to tank for them, which makes the decision to tank look even worse). The 15 players that I alluded to are Mobley, Barnes, Zion, Ja, Ayton, Doncic, Tatum, Towns, Embid, Jaren jr, Trae, Simmons, KPop, Porter, and Zeller.

Morris/westbrook/wall/goodwin
Beal/Wright/nun
Kuzma/deni/kispert
Gill?
KP/gafford


I’m down with it

CobraCommander wrote:

TGW wrote:What's weird is that they were better off just waiving Wall instead of trading him and a first for Westbrook. They're litterally going to end up with an overpaid Kuzma, a bum (Todd) and a possible loss of a first round pick in this whole fiasco.

I think in hindsight trading wall for Westbrook worked out….

But everything after?

Looks like the wiz are still one of The worse led front office in nba. Kuz KP and Beal should be in different uniforms today

Respectfully, Westbrook for KCP, Kuz, & Trez was a great trade!

In effect, we had turned Wall's contract into 3 tradable assets w/ non-trivial value plus a R1 pick, all at the additional cost of a heavily-protected R1 pick.

The problem was that we didn't trade those assets right away & begin to rebuild based on youth, a new generation. Tommy's mistake was in thinking that a tear-down was a rebuild -- all in that one move (plus signing Spencer Dinwiddie).

I imagine it was that thought which moved him to trade for Aaron Holiday as a backup, defense-oriented PG. That's where we actually lost a R1 pick. The one that came in the Westbrook for 3 lakers trade.

To tell the truth, that was more or less what we all thought! That we had done it & were gonna be really good. I had us figured for 45 wins based on historical performances by all the players on the roster. More fool I. & then, when we started off gang busters, it looked like Tommy had done the job.

Wrong. We'd have been much better off had we traded Kuzma immediately. Harrell was a very solid back up Center (as he showed with excellent play through much of the season), but we already had Gafford for that role. Moving him immediately would also have been wise. Ditto KCP. Of course, the trade for them was so complex in itself that involving other teams as destinations for those guys might have been unachievable, & by the time of the trade deadline everything had already fallen apart.

As to signing Dinwiddie, although our locker room seems to have turned into quite a mess, they loved him Dallas for good reason, & Brooklyn was happy to get him back. He's a terrific player, & signing him as a FA was a terrific decision even though it went South. It happens.

Everyone here is so down on Tommy now that there's no interest in giving him credit for the several outstanding moves he's made. Not that anyone could argue for the draft record of his FO team.

Yet, the core problem is elsewhere. The core problem is that we didn't trade Bradley Beal & begin to rebuild. At the time, I mean, when we could have gotten a lot for him. & that decision was Ted's. Period. For that matter, not many on this Board wanted to do it either (a few did -- I was one of them).

But, what we wanted is irrelevant. We weren't making decisions. Ted didn't want to trade him. The mess we are in flows entirely from that failure. From Ted, IOW, not Tommy.

Now... had he drafted well in 2019 (winding up with Clarke & Kendall Johnson -- or more!), 2020 (winding up with Tyrese Haliburton, Desmond Bane & Kenyon Martin) & 2022 (winding up with Tari Eason & at least one other prospect) -- along w/ using that #22 in '21 on, say Isaiah Jackson rather than throwing it away for Holiday -- we'd be a lot better off. Hence, for mismanaging 4 drafts in a row, to a greater or lesser degree, Tommy does get the blame.

deneem4 wrote:Morris/westbrook/wall/goodwin
Beal/Wright/nun
Kuzma/deni/kispert
Gill?
KP/gafford


I’m down with it

Let’s go!

payitforward wrote:The problem was that we didn't trade those assets right away & begin to rebuild based on youth, a new generation. Tommy's mistake was in thinking that a tear-down was a rebuild -- all in that one move (plus signing Spencer Dinwiddie).

I imagine it was that thought which moved him to trade for Aaron Holiday as a backup, defense-oriented PG. That's where we actually lost a R1 pick. The one that came in the Westbrook for 3 lakers trade.

Dinwiddie was not a sure thing. It required that unbelievably complex 5-team trade to make room for him, and could not even be finalized until a week later when Free Agency opened up. Anything could have gone wrong in that stretch. The Kings were hunting Kuzma, and if it weren't for LeBJ pulling for Westbrook, it wouldn't have happened. Once it was a possibility the Nets knew we didn't have a PG without Russ, and could have extorted a less advantageous deal. Landing Holiday on a trade back was part of the cost of that trade. Leverage. The Wiz front office stat nerds liked him because they fetishize Defensive +/- stats. He figured to be a competent stop gap at the position. That gave Tommy the stones to pull off the rest of the risky maneuver.

Truth is the trade back would not have been bad if they had taken Ayo Dosunmu, who was my highest ranked guy at that point. I figured he'd be gone in the 1st round. Was looking at Neemias Queta in round 2. I'm a sucker for the Trevion WIlliams, Queta, Orlando Robinson multi-skilled nice-passing Big. Always baffled when teams don't manage to exploit what they do well. This guy has no place in the league?



But yeah if we had picked any of a handful of guys other than Zay Todd, Tommy would have looked creative for the maneuver. Especially since the Holiday trade facilitating the Dinwiddie acquisition ultimately landed us Porzingis, who is having his career-best production for us.

Tommy is a trade master, and a draft failure. (Though Deni looks to be a good pull). We got nothing from Rui, Todd, Davis, or any of the 2nd round draft and stash guys. A team with a talent pool as shallow as ours can't afford to miss on draft picks.

What's baffling though is that Tommy does seem to have an eye for the Undrafted players who slip. Garrison Matthews was a solid get. Quenton Jackson looks to have potential. Jordan Goodwin has proved his worth. How? Why? It's unfathomable. I have no explanation.

Bring back Westbrook, Wall, and Scott Brooks. 4 guards plus Zingus or Gafford would be fun to watch. Small ball our way to the play-in.

Honestly I think Westbrook would be a good addition he's still a pretty good point guard and have been playing well. I think he starts here and Morris plays better off the bench.

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gambitx777 wrote:Honestly I think Westbrook would be a good addition he's still a pretty good point guard and have been playing well. I think he starts here and Morris plays better off the bench.

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Not sure why you think Morris plays better off the bench. He's having a season right in line with his previous ones only more assists. Now more assists may be just that the ball isn't in Jokic's hands but keeping his efficiency at the same levels without Jokic would then be considered a step up. If you meant that he's more of the talent level of a good backup point rather than a strong starter, okay, that argument I can see but I don't think his play is better off the bench.