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Deni Avdija - Part II

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Deni Avdija - Part II 

Post#1 » by nate33 » Wed Mar 29, 2023 1:04 pm

Continued from here:

This was the last post in the thread:

nate33 wrote:I completely reject this narrative that WUJ has Avdija in some sort of permanent dog house where he is not allowed to make mistakes and gets benched constantly.

If you just look at the numbers of our top 9 rotation guys (by total minutes played), Deni ranks dead last in the efficiency stats (TS% and TOV%) while also being 2nd-to-last in points per minute. This is a truly awful offensive output. He is 2nd-to-last in WS/48 and PER. He is the 2nd most foul-prone behind Gafford. And despite all of this, he ranks 3rd in total minutes played.

Avdija is not in anybody's dog house. Wes is giving him the minutes he deserves, and arguably more than he deserves on merit alone.

I'm thrilled that his individual numbers have picked up in the last 30 games after Rui's departure, but let's not overlook that last night's win against Boston was the first win against a non-tanking team since March 2nd. They're were 0 for their last 10 against teams that were actually trying to win.
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Re: Deni Avdija - Part II 

Post#2 » by FAH1223 » Wed Mar 29, 2023 1:06 pm

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Re: Deni Avdija - Part II 

Post#3 » by nate33 » Wed Mar 29, 2023 1:21 pm

I still can't believe Sheppard managed to acquire Porzingis for a disgruntled Dinwiddie and Bertans' awful contract. WTF was Dallas thinking? Porzingis is a very good player and apparently a good teammate. He is the one veteran I would like to see us keep through a rebuild.
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Re: Deni Avdija - Part II 

Post#4 » by Frichuela » Wed Mar 29, 2023 1:38 pm

nate33 wrote:I still can't believe Sheppard managed to acquire Porzingis for a disgruntled Dinwiddie and Bertans' awful contract. WTF was Dallas thinking? Porzingis is a very good player and apparently a good teammate. He is the one veteran I would like to see us keep through a rebuild.


Agreed. 100%.

Trade Beal and try to sign and trade Kuzma. Let Deni cook with Porzingis as the top dog. Surround them with 3&D guys! An example is acquiring someone like Cam Johnson...he would fit so well with Porzingis and Deni, like a globe.
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Re: Deni Avdija - Part II 

Post#5 » by Zonkerbl » Wed Mar 29, 2023 1:45 pm

he was injury prone. as long as he's healthy he's fine.
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Re: Deni Avdija - Part II 

Post#6 » by nate33 » Wed Mar 29, 2023 1:47 pm

Frichuela wrote:
nate33 wrote:I still can't believe Sheppard managed to acquire Porzingis for a disgruntled Dinwiddie and Bertans' awful contract. WTF was Dallas thinking? Porzingis is a very good player and apparently a good teammate. He is the one veteran I would like to see us keep through a rebuild.


Agreed. 100%.

Trade Beal and try to sign and trade Kuzma. Let Deni cook with Porzingis as the top dog. Surround them with 3&D guys! An example is acquiring someone like Cam Johnson...he would fit so well with Porzingis and Deni, like a globe.

Yeah, a dream scenario would be to capitalize on the Jaylen Brown drama and somehow trade Beal for him, and then trade Kuzma for Cam Johnson in a double S&T. Oh yeah, and land the #2 pick in the draft and pick Scoot:

PG Scoot
SG Jaylen
SF Avdija
PF Johnson
C Porzingis
Bench: Kispert, Gafford, Wright, Davis

:nod:
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Re: Deni Avdija - Part II 

Post#7 » by payitforward » Wed Mar 29, 2023 2:00 pm

nate33 wrote:I still can't believe Sheppard managed to acquire Porzingis for a disgruntled Dinwiddie and Bertans' awful contract. WTF was Dallas thinking? Porzingis is a very good player and apparently a good teammate. He is the one veteran I would like to see us keep through a rebuild.

Not just what was Dallas thinking! -- why were there no better offers?

& in that regard, think about the fact that they had to include a R2 pick to make it happen! What that tells me is that Dallas absolutely wanted KP out of there, no matter what -- & there was basically no interest from anyone but us.

We can disagree about how good Porzingis is overall (he was phenomenal vs. the Celtics last night!), but if it makes sense to keep any veteran on the team in a total rebuild, he would be the one.
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Re: Deni Avdija - Part II 

Post#8 » by NatP4 » Wed Mar 29, 2023 2:21 pm

Frichuela wrote:
nate33 wrote:I still can't believe Sheppard managed to acquire Porzingis for a disgruntled Dinwiddie and Bertans' awful contract. WTF was Dallas thinking? Porzingis is a very good player and apparently a good teammate. He is the one veteran I would like to see us keep through a rebuild.


Agreed. 100%.

Trade Beal and try to sign and trade Kuzma. Let Deni cook with Porzingis as the top dog. Surround them with 3&D guys! An example is acquiring someone like Cam Johnson...he would fit so well with Porzingis and Deni, like a globe.


Yep, and trade down and draft Podziemski and Cissoko, take the training wheels off of Johnny Davis. Also, give Quenton Jackson a serious look with actual rotation minutes.

Goodwin Podziemski
Davis Jackson
Kispert Cissoko
Avdija Cooks
Porzingis Gafford
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Re: Deni Avdija - Part II 

Post#9 » by FAH1223 » Wed Mar 29, 2023 2:21 pm

payitforward wrote:
nate33 wrote:I still can't believe Sheppard managed to acquire Porzingis for a disgruntled Dinwiddie and Bertans' awful contract. WTF was Dallas thinking? Porzingis is a very good player and apparently a good teammate. He is the one veteran I would like to see us keep through a rebuild.

Not just what was Dallas thinking! -- why were there no better offers?

& in that regard, think about the fact that they had to include a R2 pick to make it happen! What that tells me is that Dallas absolutely wanted KP out of there, no matter what -- & there was basically no interest from anyone but us.

We can disagree about how good Porzingis is overall (he was phenomenal vs. the Celtics last night!), but if it makes sense to keep any veteran on the team in a total rebuild, he would be the one.


The Raptors were rumored to be interested. No idea what they were offering.
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Re: Deni Avdija - Part II 

Post#10 » by CntOutSmrtCrazy » Wed Mar 29, 2023 2:35 pm

nate33 wrote:
Frichuela wrote:
nate33 wrote:I still can't believe Sheppard managed to acquire Porzingis for a disgruntled Dinwiddie and Bertans' awful contract. WTF was Dallas thinking? Porzingis is a very good player and apparently a good teammate. He is the one veteran I would like to see us keep through a rebuild.


Agreed. 100%.

Trade Beal and try to sign and trade Kuzma. Let Deni cook with Porzingis as the top dog. Surround them with 3&D guys! An example is acquiring someone like Cam Johnson...he would fit so well with Porzingis and Deni, like a globe.

Yeah, a dream scenario would be to capitalize on the Jaylen Brown drama and somehow trade Beal for him, and then trade Kuzma for Cam Johnson in a double S&T. Oh yeah, and land the #2 pick in the draft and pick Scoot:

PG Scoot
SG Jaylen
SF Avdija
PF Johnson
C Porzingis
Bench: Kispert, Gafford, Wright, Davis

:nod:


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Re: Deni Avdija - Part II 

Post#11 » by Dolevi » Wed Mar 29, 2023 3:05 pm

Frichuela wrote:
nate33 wrote:I still can't believe Sheppard managed to acquire Porzingis for a disgruntled Dinwiddie and Bertans' awful contract. WTF was Dallas thinking? Porzingis is a very good player and apparently a good teammate. He is the one veteran I would like to see us keep through a rebuild.


Agreed. 100%.

Trade Beal and try to sign and trade Kuzma. Let Deni cook with Porzingis as the top dog. Surround them with 3&D guys! An example is acquiring someone like Cam Johnson...he would fit so well with Porzingis and Deni, like a globe.


YES!!!
You can see the chimistry Deni has also with Kispert. It's not just the handshake. Deni seems to find every night his teammates for open and good looks. He consistantly finds Kispert for 3's in the last couple of games, KP in the paint with miss-matches. Goodwin with the cuts. Deni is playing the right way basketball when the ball is in his hands. The BBIQ I always talked about. He knows how to make the right pass in the right time for a winning basketball. And you can't say that on a lot players and that's why I think he needs to be PG. Indeed he needs to improve more his ball security and reduce his TO a little bit but he's promising and getting fit with this role as excpected.

So - you have Deni at the point, KP in the post / Iso / P&P situations, and then you just need to surround them with some snipers like Kispert. Really just trade Kuz and Beal somehow, bring a lot of offensive threats in exchange that can be damage from 3 like Kispert, and suddenly the team will look scary trust me :|

I hope the Wizards understand that and this will be their move as the season ends. If not - they once again gonna hurt their potential to be a better team.
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Re: Deni Avdija - Part II 

Post#12 » by arusinov » Wed Mar 29, 2023 3:54 pm

nate33 wrote:Continued from here:

This was the last post in the thread:

nate33 wrote:I completely reject this narrative that WUJ has Avdija in some sort of permanent dog house where he is not allowed to make mistakes and gets benched constantly.

If you just look at the numbers of our top 9 rotation guys (by total minutes played), Deni ranks dead last in the efficiency stats (TS% and TOV%) while also being 2nd-to-last in points per minute. This is a truly awful offensive output. He is 2nd-to-last in WS/48 and PER. He is the 2nd most foul-prone behind Gafford. And despite all of this, he ranks 3rd in total minutes played.

Avdija is not in anybody's dog house. Wes is giving him the minutes he deserves, and arguably more than he deserves on merit alone.

I'm thrilled that his individual numbers have picked up in the last 30 games after Rui's departure, but let's not overlook that last night's win against Boston was the first win against a non-tanking team since March 2nd. They're were 0 for their last 10 against teams that were actually trying to win.


Deni and Kuzma literally have same season TS% right now at 54.4% , and if Deni can just maintain his TS% since Rui's trade at 57.4% (and he had a lot bumps on the way since) it would be much better than Kuz ever managed. Kuz is 27 years old at his 6th season, never significantly improved from his rookie year... Unlike what some people think he's not someone who even distantly close to all-star level and never will be, and there's no reason to overpay him...

"Dog house" or not. I already explained: in Toronto's game Deni started with 1/ 6 FG, and 3 tov with 1 ast. If Kuzma was available after this start Deni would almost certainly end up with less than 20 minutes playing time and "horrible game". As Kuzma (and Beal) were not playing he got attitude which most on-ball top-10 draft selections get by default... and finished with 15 / 9 / 7 (no more turnovers, and 5 / 7 FG )

Look at his splits by minutes played : in games he played over 30 min his TS% is well over 60%, in games he played less than 20 min it's below 40%... which means that he gets minutes only when he starts game well, if not - he's very quickly benched. In fact it's very very short leash
Compare it to Kuzma's splits which are almost not affected by his TS%.

You can disagree, but I think it's very bad situation for a young player which is supposed to be on-ball point-forward type, and not off-ball scorer. Almost every young player (I mean those who succeeded and eventually got to all-star level) of this kind had problems with efficiency and turnovers in the beginning of his career.
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Re: Deni Avdija - Part II 

Post#13 » by nate33 » Wed Mar 29, 2023 4:41 pm

arusinov wrote:
nate33 wrote:I completely reject this narrative that WUJ has Avdija in some sort of permanent dog house where he is not allowed to make mistakes and gets benched constantly.

If you just look at the numbers of our top 9 rotation guys (by total minutes played), Deni ranks dead last in the efficiency stats (TS% and TOV%) while also being 2nd-to-last in points per minute. This is a truly awful offensive output. He is 2nd-to-last in WS/48 and PER. He is the 2nd most foul-prone behind Gafford. And despite all of this, he ranks 3rd in total minutes played.

Avdija is not in anybody's dog house. Wes is giving him the minutes he deserves, and arguably more than he deserves on merit alone.

I'm thrilled that his individual numbers have picked up in the last 30 games after Rui's departure, but let's not overlook that last night's win against Boston was the first win against a non-tanking team since March 2nd. They're were 0 for their last 10 against teams that were actually trying to win.


Deni and Kuzma literally have same season TS% right now at 54.4% , and if Deni can just maintain his TS% since Rui's trade at 57.4% (and he had a lot bumps on the way since) it would be much better than Kuz ever managed. Kuz is 27 years old at his 6th season, never significantly improved from his rookie year... Unlike what some people think he's not someone who even distantly close to all-star level and never will be, and there's no reason to overpay him...


Yes, Deni has caught Kuzma, but it took a late season run of efficiency from Deni coupled with a late season slump from Kuzma. For most of the year, Kuzma had a significantly better TS%.

Look, Avdija will play over 2000 minutes by the end of this season. He is not in any doghouse. Wes is handling him fine.
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Re: Deni Avdija - Part II 

Post#14 » by Jay81 » Wed Mar 29, 2023 5:19 pm

trading for Jaylen Brown? If you all hated beals 4th quarter turnovers lol
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Re: Deni Avdija - Part II 

Post#15 » by nate33 » Wed Mar 29, 2023 5:27 pm

Jay81 wrote:trading for Jaylen Brown? If you all hated beals 4th quarter turnovers lol

Jaylen Brown is roughly equivalent to Beal on offense, maybe a hair worse because of his lack of assists. But he is also one of the very best defensive wings in the game, he is 3.5 years younger, significantly more durable, and is still on the upswing of his career. Beal for Brown would be a MASSIVE improvement.
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Re: Deni Avdija - Part II 

Post#16 » by dckingsfan » Wed Mar 29, 2023 5:28 pm

nate33 wrote:I completely reject this narrative that WUJ has Avdija in some sort of permanent dog house where he is not allowed to make mistakes and gets benched constantly.

If you just look at the numbers of our top 9 rotation guys (by total minutes played), Deni ranks dead last in the efficiency stats (TS% and TOV%) while also being 2nd-to-last in points per minute. This is a truly awful offensive output. He is 2nd-to-last in WS/48 and PER. He is the 2nd most foul-prone behind Gafford. And despite all of this, he ranks 3rd in total minutes played.

Avdija is not in anybody's dog house. Wes is giving him the minutes he deserves, and arguably more than he deserves on merit alone.

I'm thrilled that his individual numbers have picked up in the last 30 games after Rui's departure, but let's not overlook that last night's win against Boston was the first win against a non-tanking team since March 2nd. They're were 0 for their last 10 against teams that were actually trying to win.

Yeah, citing Kuzma here is just a strawman. Deni started out playing well then didn't and had to come off the bench. If Deni was playing much better than Kuzma, then Kuzma certainly would have been traded in my counter narrative.

But it isn't like Deni isn't playing - he has the 3rd most minutes played on the roster (and that doesn't count the minutes he has lost by getting into foul trouble), trying to make the point that he isn't given his chances regardless of his flaws just doesn't equate.

This. So, the question is - should Wes have made Deni a primary focus on offense at the beginning of the season? The answer is no. He just isn't there yet.

Still hoping for Deni to have a breakout season next year on one of the following:

1) 3-point shooting or mid-range game
2) Reduction in TOs
3) Better D & less fouls

If he can do one of those things better... he will be materially better.
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Re: Deni Avdija - Part II 

Post#17 » by Dark Faze » Wed Mar 29, 2023 6:42 pm

These are the numbers we were all hoping for when he was drafted. Can only hope he keeps it going!
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Re: Deni Avdija - Part II 

Post#18 » by Pistol King » Wed Mar 29, 2023 8:13 pm

Putting aside all the stuff he has to work on during the upcoming summer, can we appreciate the level of athlete Deni has become recently? He's never going to be an elite leaper, but I'm starting to realize he's one of the fastest players in the entire league (for his size) when he knows how to using his body getting downhill. Loved so much how quick and mobile he looked against an elite defensive team in Celtics. He's starting to get the idea of body hesitation and crossover and it can take his driving game to the next level. Obviously I expect him to keep improving these offensive moves with Hanlen during summer, but I never thought he would look this quick and mobile at a NBA level. If there is one aspect the Wiz development staff should get a massive credit for is it on the way they've developed him physical wise.

Now I'd want him to keep working during summer on how to be consistent, how to being always in assertive mindset regardless of who is playing next to him, and on the technical part of his game (touch around the rim, driving and finishing with left, gaining dip on his shooting mechanics, spin moves, mid range, body control etc.)

Very entertaining game of him.
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Re: Deni Avdija - Part II 

Post#19 » by Wizraeli » Wed Mar 29, 2023 8:47 pm

nate33 wrote: completely reject this narrative that WUJ has Avdija in some sort of permanent dog house where he is not allowed to make mistakes and gets benched constantly.


Porzingis said last night Deni needs to get more freedom, so argue with Porzingis, not me.


Maybe a "doghouse" is too harsh since it implies Wes got something against Deni which I don't think is the case, exactly the opposite, but when the "big 3" are playing and more so when Hachimora was around the credit and room Deni had to make mistakes was very small, that's a fact, he got minutes, but he haven't got the ball, in the rare occasions when he got the ball he knew that if he won't do something good with it he's not going to get it again for a good number of minutes and that's not a good situation for a young player who thrive on ball movement to develop in.

I say it's a fact because look at his usage, until the Rui trade Deni was 4th in the team in minutes, BUT only 9th in usage with 15.3%, that means he was on the court a long time without getting the ball, I followed Omri Casspi just as I follow Deni, a similar player with a similar background and size, I checked and when Casspi was on GSW his usage was 15.7% in a championship team with Steph Curry, Kevin Durant, Klay Thompson, Draymond Green, Andre Iguodala, David West and I can name a few more players...if in a team like that with "big 5", not "big 3" a much more older and limited player like Casspi got an higher usage rate than Deni who suppose to be the future of this team then it shows this team has a problem with how they incorporate young players in their system and definitely says a lot about the non existent ball movement style of offense they are playing.

There's a clear correlation between one or more of the big 3 not playing and Deni having good games, I'm surprised that's even still an argument, Deni didn't suddenly learned in a few days to go left, dunk or shoot 47% from 3pt, he already had that ability, he just didn't had the confidence, and the situation where he had no room to make mistakes because he knew his chances of getting the ball are limited had a big part of it, I'm not taking anything away from his responsibility, he's a professional and suppose to deal with any situation, but he's also young, and young players needs to get room to make mistakes, Deni simply didn't get it in-spite of his minutes.
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Re: Deni Avdija - Part II 

Post#20 » by Wizraeli » Wed Mar 29, 2023 9:09 pm

dckingsfan wrote:Deni started out playing well then didn't and had to come off the bench.


Deni started the season well, then had a bad 1st quarter against Boston followed by a very good 2nd quarter with 8 points in high percentages, made one mistake at the end of the half and didn't play the rest of the game totaling for only 11 minutes, that's what happened, that's a short leash in any way you'll look at it, I remind you he wasn't a rookie, he started his 3rd season in the team.

dckingsfan wrote:But it isn't like Deni isn't playing - he has the 3rd most minutes played on the roster (and that doesn't count the minutes he has lost by getting into foul trouble), trying to make the point that he isn't given his chances regardless of his flaws just doesn't equate.


He's 6th on the team in minutes per game, 7th until the Rui trade, maybe he's 3rd in total minutes but that's because Beal only played 50 games, Kuzma 64, and Porzingis 65, and as I stated a number of times there's a clear correlation between those 3 not playing and Deni having good games, so what did he do with his minutes when those 3 were playing and what he did when they didn't is the more important question.

dckingsfan wrote:So, the question is - should Wes have made Deni a primary focus on offense at the beginning of the season? The answer is no. He just isn't there yet.


But that's not the question, why the all or nothing approach? it's not either Deni is the star or Deni not getting the ball, there is an in-between, it's just that the coaching staff, Deni and the rest of the players didn't managed to find it.

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