Poll: Ernie or Tommy, which was one was worse?

[closg00]

Ernie Grunfeld
https://www.basketball-reference.com/executives/grunfer01x.html

Tommy Sheppard
https://www.basketball-reference.com/executives/sheppto01x.html

[gambitx777]

I think overall Tommy started off better but in his desperation in the last year he went full EG.

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[mhd]

I think overall Tommy started off better but in his desperation in the last year he went full EG.

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Have no clue on what Turd mandated onto Tommy. EG was far worse. He didn't care about 2nd rounders, traded away first rounders, signed Mahinmi types, etc. Tommy made some pretty astute trades. His only awful decisions that I can attribute solely to him was the Johnny Davis pick & Bertains extension (that was mitigated by getting KP). Deni was defensible. Kispert has been excellent. Rui was a swing for the home run pick.

[TGW]

I voted Sheppard. At least Grunfeld managed to put together two decent cores (Arenas/Butler/Jams and Wall/Beal/Porter) at some point in his horrible tenure. Sheppard accomplished absolutely nothing, and completely SCREWED the Wizards with Beal. And I don't want to hear the Leonsis made him do it defense....he was 100% on board with kissing Beal's behind and I wouldn't be surprised if he convinced Leonsis to accept the NTC in Beal's deal.

[joshuacf]

I voted Sheppard. At least Grunfeld managed to put together two decent cores (Arenas/Butler/Jams and Wall/Beal/Porter) at some point in his horrible tenure. Sheppard accomplished absolutely nothing, and completely SCREWED the Wizards with Beal. And I don't want to hear the Leonsis made him do it defense....he was 100% on board with kissing Beal's behind and I wouldn't be surprised if he convinced Leonsis to accept the NTC in Beal's deal.

This is actually a good point, but Grunfeld did have 16 years at the helm and Sheppard only had 4.

[AFM]

Sheppard is worse IMO, but not by much. Giving an NTC is really just indefensible, I mean it never should have even come up in conversation--it just doesn't happen in the NBA. He really set the rebuild back years by forcing us to get pennies on the dollar for Beal, zero return for Kuz at the deadline, wasted picks on players like Todd...I could go on but you all know this already.

[CntOutSmrtCrazy]

I think overall Tommy started off better but in his desperation in the last year he went full EG.

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This.

Last year was without a doubt full blown disaster, not one good move. KCP/Ish for Monte Morris/Barton was probably his least **** up move and that was still likely a L in hindsight.

Tommy also didn't piss draft picks away in trades for rentals (e.g., Bogdanovic), terribly one-sided deals (e.g., #5 for Foye/Miller), or just complete head scratchers (e.g., Morris). In fairness, Marcin Gortat was a decent trade IMO. I think he was worth giving up a pick for with his production here, him and John were pretty lethal in the PNR game for awhile there. I'm sure I'm forgetting some other bad pick dumps, but those are the ones that come to mind first. This of course has nothing about how he performed in the draft, simply just stating he didn't blatantly piss away the future on short-sighted deals.

EG got 3 top 3 draft picks in 4 years, about the only thing that went right in his tenure along with signing Arenas by luck. Those three picks (Wall, Beal, Porter) were layups even for him, he screwed up the only one of had any ambiguity to it (Jan Boy). TS while obviously has had a pretty rough go at it in the draft, he was at least in tougher spots because of this team constantly flirting with mediocrity.

Long and short of it, TS inherited a disaster. Made some great moves, but lacked follow up to those good moves. Drafting Davis, resigning Beal while bidding against himself, not only resigning Beal but giving him a NTC, not trading Kuzma at the deadline, and not shutting down the season soon enough when it was painfully obvious the season was over were just about as bad as you could do as a GM over the span of a year. Maybe worse than any year period by Ernie. So TS went out with a disastrously **** bang.

[TGW]

EG got 3 top 3 draft picks in 4 years, about the only thing that went right in his tenure along with signing Arenas by luck.

That's not true. He traded Kwame Brown for Caron Butler, which is one of the greatest trades in franchise history. That move alone is singularly better than anything Sheppard did.

[CntOutSmrtCrazy]

EG got 3 top 3 draft picks in 4 years, about the only thing that went right in his tenure along with signing Arenas by luck.

That's not true. He traded Kwame Brown for Caron Butler, which is one of the greatest trades in franchise history. That move alone is singularly better than anything Sheppard did.

That's true, forgot about that one. He also signed Antonio Daniels the same day, that was a hell of a day for him.

[Jay81]

I voted Sheppard. At least Grunfeld managed to put together two decent cores (Arenas/Butler/Jams and Wall/Beal/Porter) at some point in his horrible tenure. Sheppard accomplished absolutely nothing, and completely SCREWED the Wizards with Beal. And I don't want to hear the Leonsis made him do it defense....he was 100% on board with kissing Beal's behind and I wouldn't be surprised if he convinced Leonsis to accept the NTC in Beal's deal.

This is actually a good point, but Grunfeld did have 16 years at the helm and Sheppard only had 4.

shepard never had 3 top 3 picks in a row like Ernie did. Ernie was the worst Gm ive ever seen in any pro franchise

[dckingsfan]

Both were in the bottom 10% of GMs. It is like comparing a rotten apple to a rotten tomato. They are both bad fruit at the end of the day.

[daSwami]

Both were awful. I voted Shepp b/c that NTC is unforgiveable. I hated 80% of EG's moves, but he did build a decent roster (Arenas, Jamison, Tuff Juice) pre-"knucklehead era", then the wheels fell off and ... here we are.

[leswizards]

IMO, eg’s 2011 draft was far worse than the ntc. 17 of the 30 first round picks played 10 seasons or more. 26 of the 30 picks played 5 seasons or more. With the 5th pick and the 18th pick in the draft, eg selected 2 of the 4 picks in that first round that only played 3 seasons or less. And that is even talking about the players he could have had.

[TGW]

Here’s the thing though…through all those bad Grunfeld drafts, who was right at his side as his top dog?

Sheppard had his fingerprints on all of those drafts. Especially Jan Vesely by all accounts.

[smoothSeph]

The misery of being a Wizards fan. We're finally free from these terrible GMs and we made a thread to reminisce on their terribleness.

[gambitx777]

I mean it's hard to be the deals EG handed out but Tommy did. Beals super max wouldn't have been bad with out a NTC

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[closg00]

Here’s the thing though…through all those bad Grunfeld drafts, who was right at his side as his top dog?

Sheppard had his fingerprints on all of those drafts. Especially Jan Vesely by all accounts.

This is why I voted for Tommy, he had all those years to learn from Ernie's mistakes, only to fall flat on is face when he had his moment.

[payitforward]

EG got 3 top 3 draft picks in 4 years, about the only thing that went right in his tenure along with signing Arenas by luck.

That's not true. He traded Kwame Brown for Caron Butler, which is one of the greatest trades in franchise history. That move alone is singularly better than anything Sheppard did.

That's true, forgot about that one. He also signed Antonio Daniels the same day, that was a hell of a day for him.

This is nonsense. What Ernie "built" was the 2018-19 Wizards -- one of the most horrible squads I've ever seen, & one that had next to no sustainable players.

Tommy started with much less than Ernie had.
In fact, Tommy had nothing.

Of the guys Ernie left, only Bryant (a Tommy find) & Brad came back.
Otherwise it was Wall (injured, unplayable, thought to be untradable), Mahinmi (last year of a horrible Ernie contract), & McCrae (meaningless).

Tommy made a series of brilliant moves in his 4 years. An extraordinary series of trades, to tell the truth.

But... he screwed up the draft, & he failed to take a R1 pick for Bertans, re-signing him for dumb money instead.

All the same, Tommy's gone -- now maybe we can stop kicking a guy who's no longer in the room.

[payitforward]

The misery of being a Wizards fan. We're finally free from these terrible GMs and we made a thread to reminisce on their terribleness.

Great point -- can't wait for this to go away.

[dcstanley]

It's sad because Tommy displayed some competency in his short tenure (KP trade, trading Wall for Westbrook then trading Westbrook for value, Gafford trade, etc) but his terrible draft record and doling out the worst contract in NBA history makes him worse.