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GM 38 DET @ DC

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DCZards
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Re: GM 38 DET @ DC 

Post#41 » by DCZards » Tue Jan 16, 2024 5:35 pm

nate33 wrote:
pancakes3 wrote:Kuz is the best player on the team by a significant margin. he absolutely has earned the green light, and has a TS% of 55.5 on the season. yall are misdirecting yalls frustration on the wrong dude.

Agreed. Kuzma is not the superstar he seems to think he is, but he is still easily the best offensive option on this team. People on this board continue to underrate the difficulty of volume scoring, even at below league average efficiency. Guys like Deni, Tyus and Kispert could not score near as effectively if they were subjected to the defensive attention Kuzma is, and if they were forced to take isolation possessions like Kuzma does.

Kuzma deserves some criticism for his heat checks and the ill-advised shots early in the shot clock, but the hate on this board is excessive.

Yup...Kuz has his faults but on this team he's an important and valuable contributor.
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Re: GM 38 DET @ DC 

Post#42 » by CntOutSmrtCrazy » Tue Jan 16, 2024 6:02 pm

DCZards wrote:
nate33 wrote:
pancakes3 wrote:Kuz is the best player on the team by a significant margin. he absolutely has earned the green light, and has a TS% of 55.5 on the season. yall are misdirecting yalls frustration on the wrong dude.

Agreed. Kuzma is not the superstar he seems to think he is, but he is still easily the best offensive option on this team. People on this board continue to underrate the difficulty of volume scoring, even at below league average efficiency. Guys like Deni, Tyus and Kispert could not score near as effectively if they were subjected to the defensive attention Kuzma is, and if they were forced to take isolation possessions like Kuzma does.

Kuzma deserves some criticism for his heat checks and the ill-advised shots early in the shot clock, but the hate on this board is excessive.

Yup...Kuz has his faults but on this team he's an important and valuable contributor.


I have to go ahead and completely disagree.

He hasn't earned any special treatment shooting at par with his career TS% at 28.5 years of age; after yesterday's game, he's down to 54.6 TS% on the season while being a complete sieve on defense. He damn well should be posting some decent scoring numbers because he barely even tries on the other end.

Look at his advanced numbers at a guy who is supposed to be a finished product and in his prime.

0.0 VORP
0.8 OBPM
-2.6 DBPM
-1.9 BPM
-6.6 On-Off
-0.1 WS

Get away from the advanced stuff, and talk eye test, it pretty much matches up.

This notion that Kuzma is in some special class when he only tries on one side of the ball and is kinda meh on the side he does try on is getting to the point of absurdity. What's even more frustrating, is the fact that we should be striving towards more development of pieces we do have, than letting Kuzma try to shoot 38 foot airballs and atrocious fadeaways because hot damn, he looks cool doing it.
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Re: GM 38 DET @ DC 

Post#43 » by tontoz » Tue Jan 16, 2024 6:06 pm

Kuzma's shot selection lately reminds me of someone on a see-food diet.
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Re: GM 38 DET @ DC 

Post#44 » by dckingsfan » Tue Jan 16, 2024 7:27 pm

CntOutSmrtCrazy wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:I felt that Deni was playing the best of the starters - not saying much. But he did have those ugly TOs. My beef is that Poole got more minutes than Deni - puzzling. I know, I know, WUJ has his rotation, he isn't going to get Kuz minutes.

And some of the minutes I would have wanted him to have would have come from Coulibaly - guess I would have been bitching about that as well :lol:


Why is it the mentality that Kuzma has earned the right to play like crap and not have his minutes reduced? I just don't get it. Maybe he'd clean up some of these disaster shots he forces up constantly if there was sone stick to go along with the carrot. He just has zero incentive to be a better player because there's no consequence for playing selfish.

He's been atrocious on defense too for the vast majority of the season, too.

Odd that some people talk about how he genuinely wants to be here or that he's showing leadership. All I see is a guy that wants to get his counting stats and to get traded.

Just helping... yeah, no matter how badly he or Poole play, they are still going to get their minutes.
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Re: GM 38 DET @ DC 

Post#45 » by dckingsfan » Tue Jan 16, 2024 7:31 pm

nate33 wrote:Agreed. Kuzma is not the superstar he seems to think he is, but he is still easily the best offensive option on this team. People on this board continue to underrate the difficulty of volume scoring, even at below league average efficiency. Guys like Deni, Tyus and Kispert could not score near as effectively if they were subjected to the defensive attention Kuzma is, and if they were forced to take isolation possessions like Kuzma does.

Kuzma deserves some criticism for his heat checks and the ill-advised shots early in the shot clock, but the hate on this board is excessive.

Maybe I am missing the hate.

What I get is that WUJ can't coach him. Can't get him to play D, can't get him to reduce the poor shots. Can't sit him when he is playing really poorly.

I think that you hit it when he thinks and plays like he is a superstar but just isn't all that (same goes for Poole).

I still like the signing if we can trade him for assets but a WUJ/Kuzma pairing isn't very exciting :)
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Re: GM 38 DET @ DC 

Post#46 » by nate33 » Tue Jan 16, 2024 7:45 pm

dckingsfan wrote:
nate33 wrote:Agreed. Kuzma is not the superstar he seems to think he is, but he is still easily the best offensive option on this team. People on this board continue to underrate the difficulty of volume scoring, even at below league average efficiency. Guys like Deni, Tyus and Kispert could not score near as effectively if they were subjected to the defensive attention Kuzma is, and if they were forced to take isolation possessions like Kuzma does.

Kuzma deserves some criticism for his heat checks and the ill-advised shots early in the shot clock, but the hate on this board is excessive.

Maybe I am missing the hate.

What I get is that WUJ can't coach him. Can't get him to play D, can't get him to reduce the poor shots. Can't sit him when he is playing really poorly.

I think that you hit it when he thinks and plays like he is a superstar but just isn't all that (same goes for Poole).

I still like the signing if we can trade him for assets but a WUJ/Kuzma pairing isn't very exciting :)

This is fair.
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Re: GM 38 DET @ DC 

Post#47 » by CntOutSmrtCrazy » Tue Jan 16, 2024 7:47 pm

dckingsfan wrote:
nate33 wrote:Agreed. Kuzma is not the superstar he seems to think he is, but he is still easily the best offensive option on this team. People on this board continue to underrate the difficulty of volume scoring, even at below league average efficiency. Guys like Deni, Tyus and Kispert could not score near as effectively if they were subjected to the defensive attention Kuzma is, and if they were forced to take isolation possessions like Kuzma does.

Kuzma deserves some criticism for his heat checks and the ill-advised shots early in the shot clock, but the hate on this board is excessive.

Maybe I am missing the hate.

What I get is that WUJ can't coach him. Can't get him to play D, can't get him to reduce the poor shots. Can't sit him when he is playing really poorly.

I think that you hit it when he thinks and plays like he is a superstar but just isn't all that (same goes for Poole).

I still like the signing if we can trade him for assets but a WUJ/Kuzma pairing isn't very exciting :)


Bingo! In Kuzma's defense, it's not his fault WUJ is a wimp of a coach.
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Re: GM 38 DET @ DC 

Post#48 » by pancakes3 » Tue Jan 16, 2024 8:35 pm

The wizards are squarely in the middle of an awful season, potentially historically awful but for the Pistons.

Their newly acquired star player who's supposed to be keeping them 30-wins-ish competitive turns out to be arguably the worst player in the league.

And yall are writing dissertations of criticism for Kuz not being Pippen and for WUJ not being Pops.

Kuz/WUJ are certainly flawed, but they're not the reason we're this bad. Well, WUJ a little, but I'd say 70% of the reason is Poole, plain and simple. You're talking about WUJ lacking the balls to sit Kuz when he slacks on D? How pissed would you be if WUJ sits you because of the lack of defensive hustle but Poole is out there getting 30 mpg? And as WUJ, what are you going to do? Not play the guy you just gave $140M to? Not only is that a waste of money, you're destroying what little trade value he has left.

There's nothing to do but suck right now. You could put Red Auerbach in there with Pops and Phil Jackson holding clipboards and we'd still be a 20-win team. Kuz could put in 110% effort starting tomorrow and we'd add maybe 2 wins to the season. It's Poole. He cratered the season. Probably the next few seasons.

And I'm a little offended that this is coming off as me defending Kuz, which I don't want to do. But I'm acknowledging that he is who he is, good and bad. I wouldn't want Julius Randle on this team either, but I can recognize the value that Randle brings to a team, and what he doesn't bring. That's all.
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Re: GM 38 DET @ DC 

Post#49 » by CntOutSmrtCrazy » Tue Jan 16, 2024 8:58 pm

pancakes3 wrote:The wizards are squarely in the middle of an awful season, potentially historically awful but for the Pistons.

Their newly acquired star player who's supposed to be keeping them 30-wins-ish competitive turns out to be arguably the worst player in the league.

And yall are writing dissertations of criticism for Kuz not being Pippen and for WUJ not being Pops.

Kuz/WUJ are certainly flawed, but they're not the reason we're this bad. Well, WUJ a little, but I'd say 70% of the reason is Poole, plain and simple. You're talking about WUJ lacking the balls to sit Kuz when he slacks on D? How pissed would you be if WUJ sits you because of the lack of defensive hustle but Poole is out there getting 30 mpg? And as WUJ, what are you going to do? Not play the guy you just gave $140M to? Not only is that a waste of money, you're destroying what little trade value he has left.

There's nothing to do but suck right now. You could put Bill Auerbach in there with Pops and Phil Jackson holding clipboards and we'd still be a 20-win team. Kuz could put in 110% effort starting tomorrow and we'd add maybe 2 wins to the season. It's Poole. He cratered the season. Probably the next few seasons.

And I'm a little offended that this is coming off as me defending Kuz, which I don't want to do. But I'm acknowledging that he is who he is, good and bad. I wouldn't want Julius Randle on this team either, but I can recognize the value that Randle brings to a team, and what he doesn't bring. That's all.


A couple of things:

1. Poole sucking (which I don't think anyone on this entire board disagrees with) has nothing to do with how Kuzma approaches the game and how WUJ in turn chooses to coach him.

2. I also happen to think WUJ has mismanaged Poole as well from a coaching perspective. He should have been benched a long while back (I said as much in the Poole thread) and reined in because he's obviously playing like he doesn't care on most nights (though, he's been somewhat better as of late).

3. Sure we suck, we were always going to suck going into the season. No disagreement there. But how you go about tanking matters in my book. Are you letting the Kuzmas and Pooles of the world play like idiots, or are you holding guys accountable, building good habits, and developing the guys you need to. You can both suck, and try to run a competent, merit-based team. It doesn't just mean WUJ should play rotations to keep vets happy, and as long as we suck, there doesn't have to be any sort of accountability. In fact having zero accountability for the Kuzmas and Pooles of the world is probably going to in the end hurt their trade value because they do stupid things with a basketball as a result. And let me clarify that I am in no way saying Kuzma has been anything close to as bad as Poole.

4. Why is it whenever there is criticism of these guys someone has to bring up comparisons to all-time great players, coaches, moments? No one has expectations that these guys are all-time greats, but the fact that they are not all-time greats, doesn't mean we have to spare any and all criticism. Nate was basically using this line of reasoning with yesterday's game: that because Deni didn't pop off for a 37 point (all-time great) quarter, that we were all overacting for taking out a young guy (who has struggled with confidence) who had an early hot hand because of some arbitrary rotations WUJ has in his head.
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Re: GM 38 DET @ DC 

Post#50 » by payitforward » Tue Jan 16, 2024 11:18 pm

DCZards wrote:
nate33 wrote:
pancakes3 wrote:Kuz is the best player on the team by a significant margin. he absolutely has earned the green light, and has a TS% of 55.5 on the season. yall are misdirecting yalls frustration on the wrong dude.

Agreed. Kuzma is not the superstar he seems to think he is, but he is still easily the best offensive option on this team. People on this board continue to underrate the difficulty of volume scoring, even at below league average efficiency. Guys like Deni, Tyus and Kispert could not score near as effectively if they were subjected to the defensive attention Kuzma is, and if they were forced to take isolation possessions like Kuzma does.

Kuzma deserves some criticism for his heat checks and the ill-advised shots early in the shot clock, but the hate on this board is excessive.

Yup...Kuz has his faults but on this team he's an important and valuable contributor.

For starters, let's not go down the "hate" road -- please.

In my case, for example, I have an extremely high regard for Kyle Kuzma: he comes off as a terrific, super-interesting guy --& he certainly seems to be an outstanding teammate.

Kuz definitely cares about winning, & he plays with commitment. & I agree entirely that there's no reason to "blame" Kuz for our being bad -- this year or in the past. Plus, nate, you are altogether correct to point out how hard it is to be a volume scorer!

Yet, at this writing, Kuz's season TS% is .546 -- almost exactly his career average (.545) & identical to what it was his best overall year (i.e. his last w/ LA).

In other words, the good news is that he's filling the volume scoring role without getting worse. But, even when he was far removed from the #1 option on his team, or a volume scorer at all, he posted pedestrian numbers overall, right up & down the line.

I don't think any of this matters much, to tell the truth. We are on a path, a rebuilding path. That's what is important right now.
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