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We knew they were gonna be bad. We knew it would be painful.

But this is different from blowing games in the 4th. Or keeping it competitive, only to not have the savvy and know how to close it out. Or losing by 8-10, but showing some flashes of what might be to come, or exhibiting some real fight and hustle for four quarters.

The vets who were brought in for savvy — or not jettisoned — are checked out. It’s dispiriting.

And worse, they’re taking minutes from the 4 youngins who are the only reason to watch or keep tabs.

Bilal looks tentative and awful on O — we were expecting a leap, and seemed to have gotten one, but that looks like a mirage right now.

No one can hit a shot with any regularity. Not Bilal, not George, not Sarr, not Bub.

Have there been moments? Sure, some. Before Kuz came back, there was camaraderie and fight and joy, and we got glimpses. Not now.

Again, I know this is a total tank season — but it’s not the tanking I was expecting. And it’s more than 2 1/2 months until the trade deadline.

I know the end game here — get Flagg, get Bailey, get Harper — but is anybody okay with this?

I know that learning takes time and that a tear-it-down-to-the-studs rebuild like this is going to require loads of patience.

But they simply have to care more. And fight more. And hustle more. They have to play with desperation. They have to show that they’re willing to compete every night. And that they’re proud to serve us and serve the city.

If they do all of that every night, and still lose, fine — I can live with that. And if they do all of that by giving big minutes to the Not Big 4, then I can more than live with that: I can feel proud to call myself a fan.

I don't have League Pass. I'm not boosting illegal streams. I've seen zero Wizards games. All I can do is speculate on what's taking place.

In the first few games, the rookies had no fear of failure. They were playing free, and they weren't being coached. George and Carrington did play joyfully. Coulibaly inexplicably played like Kawhi Leonatd
.
I guess pressure of travel, having to defend grown pros, and lack of leadership are all showing.

It has to be pretty miserable.

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:I don't have League Pass. I'm not boosting illegal streams. I've seen zero Wizards games. All I can do is speculate on what's taking place.

In the first few games, the rookies had no fear of failure. They were playing free, and they weren't being coached. George and Carrington did play joyfully. Coulibaly inexplicably played like Kawhi Leonatd
.
I guess pressure of travel, having to defend grown pros, and lack of leadership are all showing.

It has to be pretty miserable.

I think it's more likely that the Scouting Report has come out on our young players and teams are taking away the things they're most comfortable doing.

I don't know if the situation is really a cause for concern or alarm - but rather just a mild bit of disappointment. After the two Atlanta wins, it was easy to believe that all 4 of Coulibaly, Sarr, Carrington and George were likely to pan out to be quality starters, putting us way ahead of schedule in the rebuild. If everything broke right, we would tank this one season, acquire a top tier star in the draft, and then we would already have the talent base to abandon tanking as soon as next season.

That's clearly not the case.

George may not be anything more than a journeyman. And Coulibaly, Sarr and Carrington might only be rotation players rather than quality starters. (I'm not saying that CAN'T develop into quality starters, I'm just saying it's no longer a sure thing.) This is going to be a long rebuild. We're going to need a star from the 2025 draft, a star from the 2026 draft and probably a good player from the 2027 draft before we really turn the corner. It's possible that only one or two guys from our current roster is an entrenched starter on our 2028 team.

The word I would use is surprised. I too thought we would be competitive most nights…and end up losing. What’s surprising (and somewhat demoralizing) is that the Zards are more often than not out of the game by the end of the first quarter.

Talent, effort, defense. All are factors. But I’m also beginning to wonder how much of it is coaching.

As for the youngins, I’m still fairly sold on them. Very few 19 and 20 yr olds look good early in their careers, especially when given leading roles and essentially put in a sink-or-swim situation.

Not sure what’s going on with Bilal. Early in the season he was allowed to operate more with the ball in his hands, often bringing it upcourt. I’d like to see a return to more of that. I think it helped with his confidence on offense.

I’m still driving the Bub bandwagon. I’m impressed by his maturity for a 19 yr old and his oncourt leadership. His high bball IQ shows up in his low TO rate and his solid steal and assist #s.

Bub’s 3pt shooting has actually been better than I expected. Right around 35%….and likely to improve over time.

The worrisome aspect is Bub’s inability to get to the rim and finish. Hopefully, that improves with experience and strength.

Agree with all that Zards. The rookies looked a lot better before Kuzma came back. Whether that's just a coincidence or not, I'm not sure.

nate33 wrote:

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:I don't have League Pass. I'm not boosting illegal streams. I've seen zero Wizards games. All I can do is speculate on what's taking place.

In the first few games, the rookies had no fear of failure. They were playing free, and they weren't being coached. George and Carrington did play joyfully. Coulibaly inexplicably played like Kawhi Leonatd
.
I guess pressure of travel, having to defend grown pros, and lack of leadership are all showing.

It has to be pretty miserable.

I think it's more likely that the Scouting Report has come out on our young players and teams are taking away the things they're most comfortable doing.

I don't know if the situation is really a cause for concern or alarm - but rather just a mild bit of disappointment. After the two Atlanta wins, it was easy to believe that all 4 of Coulibaly, Sarr, Carrington and George were likely to pan out to be quality starters, putting us way ahead of schedule in the rebuild. If everything broke right, we would tank this one season, acquire a top tier star in the draft, and then we would already have the talent base to abandon tanking as soon as next season.

That's clearly not the case.

George may not be anything more than a journeyman. And Coulibaly, Sarr and Carrington might only be rotation players rather than quality starters. (I'm not saying that CAN'T develop into quality starters, I'm just saying it's no longer a sure thing.) This is going to be a long rebuild. We're going to need a star from the 2025 draft, a star from the 2026 draft and probably a good player from the 2027 draft before we really turn the corner. It's possible that only one or two guys from our current roster is an entrenched starter on our 2028 team.

I found the games completely unwatchable. I checked out except for watching the stats. The last game I watched, the game was over in the 1st quarter.

And yes, Coulibaly, Sarr, Carrington and George are most likely to be 4-8 on a good team or maybe 3-7 (please, please, please). So yes, we are going to need a couple of great drafts and then let those players develop. That puts us to 2029 or so (unless a miracle happens). I do worry that instead of the vets conveying knowledge, they are conveying bad habits because they understand they aren't part of the future. Understandable that they are checking out.

I just hope the games become watchable in the next season or two.

nate33 wrote:

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:I don't have League Pass. I'm not boosting illegal streams. I've seen zero Wizards games. All I can do is speculate on what's taking place.

In the first few games, the rookies had no fear of failure. They were playing free, and they weren't being coached. George and Carrington did play joyfully. Coulibaly inexplicably played like Kawhi Leonatd
.
I guess pressure of travel, having to defend grown pros, and lack of leadership are all showing.

It has to be pretty miserable.

I think it's more likely that the Scouting Report has come out on our young players and teams are taking away the things they're most comfortable doing.

I don't know if the situation is really a cause for concern or alarm - but rather just a mild bit of disappointment. After the two Atlanta wins, it was easy to believe that all 4 of Coulibaly, Sarr, Carrington and George were likely to pan out to be quality starters, putting us way ahead of schedule in the rebuild. If everything broke right, we would tank this one season, acquire a top tier star in the draft, and then we would already have the talent base to abandon tanking as soon as next season.

That's clearly not the case.

George may not be anything more than a journeyman. And Coulibaly, Sarr and Carrington might only be rotation players rather than quality starters. (I'm not saying that CAN'T develop into quality starters, I'm just saying it's no longer a sure thing.) This is going to be a long rebuild. We're going to need a star from the 2025 draft, a star from the 2026 draft and probably a good player from the 2027 draft before we really turn the corner. It's possible that only one or two guys from our current roster is an entrenched starter on our 2028 team.

Nate, you put this very well.

What you described, is what I would call “alarming.” Because if — and I’m not saying this’ll happen; I’m choosing to be optimistic — but if none of the 4 turn out to be more than decent talents, then that means Dawkins has to hit big in the draft this year AND next. And that’s asking an awful lot. And it puts stress on the rebuild. Because if the pick in 2025 is not all that, then maybe Dawkins doesn’t end up directing the revamp. All kinds of things could happen.

I know people are talking about Houston as a success story, but I think they’re a team that gives me pause. Some good talent, but they’ve stopped adding young talent and turned to vets. And they don’t have enough top tier talent to win a title. Some painful years, and it’s not going to end with a team that can win big and win big consistently.

And that could very well be our fate too.

Compared to where we are now, it looks like paradise. But I’d consider that a massive disappointment.

One thing I am alarmed about is that the guys we drafted the last two years are shooting so badly. Shooting is pretty important in this league now.

Even in last night's win Bub/Bilal shot a combined 6-22.

nate33 wrote:

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:I don't have League Pass. I'm not boosting illegal streams. I've seen zero Wizards games. All I can do is speculate on what's taking place.

In the first few games, the rookies had no fear of failure. They were playing free, and they weren't being coached. George and Carrington did play joyfully. Coulibaly inexplicably played like Kawhi Leonatd
.
I guess pressure of travel, having to defend grown pros, and lack of leadership are all showing.

It has to be pretty miserable.

I think it's more likely that the Scouting Report has come out on our young players and teams are taking away the things they're most comfortable doing.

I don't know if the situation is really a cause for concern or alarm - but rather just a mild bit of disappointment. After the two Atlanta wins, it was easy to believe that all 4 of Coulibaly, Sarr, Carrington and George were likely to pan out to be quality starters, putting us way ahead of schedule in the rebuild. If everything broke right, we would tank this one season, acquire a top tier star in the draft, and then we would already have the talent base to abandon tanking as soon as next season.

That's clearly not the case.

George may not be anything more than a journeyman. And Coulibaly, Sarr and Carrington might only be rotation players rather than quality starters. (I'm not saying that CAN'T develop into quality starters, I'm just saying it's no longer a sure thing.) This is going to be a long rebuild. We're going to need a star from the 2025 draft, a star from the 2026 draft and probably a good player from the 2027 draft before we really turn the corner. It's possible that only one or two guys from our current roster is an entrenched starter on our 2028 team.

I want to preemptively own that I'm a fan of this take mostly because it's been my take forever as well, and just better articulated, in forum threads (it's always kind of funny when someone props a take as genius, mostly because it's just a better written version of their own perception), but yeah, this is largely 1000% what I think. I would only add that I'm cautiously quite optimistic about all the picks from '24, but I also don't believe any of them are a part of a potential Big 3. The Big 3 if we ever land them, are almost certainly sitting in future drafts, if we can land them. That's a big if.

Down to a -15.6 differential!

None ! We just blew it up. Not concerned!

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I think Coulibaly could start on a playoff team. I'd go out on a limb and say he's better than Avdija. Like, way better. Carrington is a starter.

Sarr has some nice skills but he needs to double his strength to have a chance to guard his position.

We need a superstar one and two. Sarr was supposed to be one and he clearly is not and may never be.

If I'm concerned about anything, it's not the young players, who have been moderately disappointing but still look like NBA players and not a collection of Chris Singletons. I am still kinda concerned that Deni trade still seemed light on return, they didn't trade Kuz when they had a chance, and Tyus Jones didn't return anything at all and signed for the minimum. This year's deadline is a big test.

Zonkerbl wrote:I think Coulibaly could start on a playoff team. I'd go out on a limb and say he's better than Avdija. Like, way better. Carrington is a starter.

Sarr has some nice skills but he needs to double his strength to have a chance to guard his position.

We need a superstar one and two. Sarr was supposed to be one and he clearly is not and may never be.

Hope you’re right about Bilal being better than Deni. Don’t see it yet.

Carrington at PG will be a key piece going forward.

I don’t think Sarr was ever projected as a potential superstar.

Sarr is a #2 pick. He's supposed to be a star.

I don't think it works like that.


No ones expecting Risacher to be a star either

Back to a -16.2 differential...

My two cents. If I am taking the #2 pick my assumption is that he is going to have a chance to be an all-star. Otherwise, I don't think you want to tie up $11,245,680;$11,808,240;$12,370,680;$15,611,798. Then again, those aren't all-star salary numbers - but you get where I am going.

Or another way to look at it. You would hope one of 4 of your recent draft picks could become a star? Conversely, if you are making that many do you not hope/expect at least one of them to breakthrough?

What does have me even more "alarmed" if that is the right word are these:
- the Poopoo trade
- Kuzma signing
- Kispert signing

It seems to be a "pattern".

But, as 9 and 20 points out, this year's trade deadline and off-season are pretty big tests (IMO) to see if the pattern holds or not.

Way too early to tell on the young guys, but doubtful any will ever be an all star, though Wemby may be only all star in those drafts.

Not impressed at all with Poole trade, Kuzma non-trade, Gafford trade, or work finding some diamonds in the rough.

Trayce Jackson-Davis, who we traded for cash to the Warriors, is playing 17 minutes per game. An alarmingly Grunfeldian move.

Need to hit it big in 25 or 26 draft or they gone.

Any team losing by 30 pts every other game is a cause for concern. Flagg or Bailey don't come in and make this a winning team, we still lose by 20.

Have to be careful to not let the young guys get used to losing.