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Brookyln--looks like they drafted players who will ensure they are the worst team in the league
Utah--if they decide to play Laurie and he stays healthy and if ACE plays well---they will still suck but they could still be better than us i guess.They said they want to try this year.
Toronto--i think they should be tanking but if they also traded for Ingram. They should be better than us right?
Charlotte--if they stay healthy and get Brandon Miller back and with Kon being a winning player---they should be better
Portland--not sure if they were trying to tank based on how they drafted
New Orleans--cant afford to tank since they gave up their first next year
Milwaukee--super worried about them tanking
Pacers--without Haliburton, they are probably a 32-50 team unless Ben steps up. They could be in the tanking mix
Sixers--they should be alot better. not worried about them
Suns--we want them to tank as long as we are also tanking
Miami--looks like one of the worst teams in the league. they may tank

anyone else i am missing

with the east being so open this year--maybe less teams will be tanking?/

Miami still has Bam and Herro. Andrew Wiggins is solid. And they drafted a relatively NBA-ready player in Jakucionis, and word is they are going after Kuminga.

And they have Spo.

They will be fine.

I think there are only 3 teams that will start out the season without caring a bit about wins and losses: WAS, UTA and BRK. Everyone else at least wants to win games, which gives us a big advantage in the tanking battle. There are certainly a few bad teams that may not win much and could eventually shift to a tanking stance, but they won't start out that way. Those teams include: Charlotte, Toronto, New Orleans, Philly, Sacramento, Chicago and Portland.

We don't really have to worry about Milwaukee tanking because they don't control their pick. Same with Phoenix.

Indy is still a 38+ win team without Haliburton, given the weakness of the East.

nate33 wrote:I think there are only 3 teams that will start out the season without caring a bit about wins and losses: WAS, UTA and BRK. Everyone else at least wants to win games, which gives us a big advantage in the tanking battle. There are certainly a few bad teams that may not win much and could eventually shift to a tanking stance, but they won't start out that way. Those teams include: Charlotte, Toronto, New Orleans, Philly, Sacramento, Chicago and Portland.

We don't really have to worry about Milwaukee tanking because they don't control their pick. Same with Phoenix.

Indy is still a 38+ win team without Haliburton, given the weakness of the East.

New Orleans traded away their unprotected first so they don’t have motivation to tank either right?

I think we'll be able to remain in the bottom 4 teams even while improving.

My expectations for the next few years:

25-26: 1-5 (but a better on court product, just strong parity)
26-27: 6-13
27-28: out of the lottery

Dark Faze wrote:I think we'll be able to remain in the bottom 4 teams even while improving.

My expectations for the next few years:

25-26: 1-5 (but a better on court product, just strong parity)
26-27: 6-13
27-28: out of the lottery

I wouldn't be surprised if we make a massive leap in 2026-27. By then, all of our youngsters will hopefully be turning the corner and playing like youngish vets rather than newbies, and we will also be using millions of dollars of our cap room. And we won't have any pick protection issues motivating us to tank.

Brooklyn is the only one I’m thinking about. It sounds like Utah is done with tanking but Brooklyn is straight up saying they’re going to suck.

Rafael122 wrote:Brooklyn is the only one I’m thinking about. It sounds like Utah is done with tanking but Brooklyn is straight up saying they’re going to suck.

Remember, there is absolutely no difference in lottery odds to land a top 4 pick whether you are the worst, second-worst or third-worst team. All 3 of those teams have exactly a 52.1% chance at a top 4 pick. And even the fourth-worst team has only slightly worse odds (48.1%). So Brooklyn and one other team can out-tank us with no impact whatsoever on us landing a top 4 pick.

I think we're going to find next year has good players 1-8, so as long as we keep our pick I'm good...

I'd rather see our players improving as the season progresses, than watch us deliberately sabatoge the season to get our pick...
I'd actually like to see us win 25 or more games this year.....
I wanna get our lottery pick while trying to get better or else we're still going to suck the following season.....

nate33 wrote:

Rafael122 wrote:Brooklyn is the only one I’m thinking about. It sounds like Utah is done with tanking but Brooklyn is straight up saying they’re going to suck.

Remember, there is absolutely no difference in lottery odds to land a top 4 pick whether you are the worst, second-worst or third-worst team. All 3 of those teams have exactly a 52.1% chance at a top 4 pick. And even the fourth-worst team has only slightly worse odds (48.1%). So Brooklyn and one other team can out-tank us with no impact whatsoever on us landing a top 4 pick.

Yeah, but it makes a big difference in how far you drop (See us going to 6 vs Utah going to 5).

Jay81 wrote:Brookyln--looks like they drafted players who will ensure they are the worst team in the league
Utah--if they decide to play Laurie and he stays healthy and if ACE plays well---they will still suck but they could still be better than us i guess.They said they want to try this year.
Toronto--i think they should be tanking but if they also traded for Ingram. They should be better than us right?
Charlotte--if they stay healthy and get Brandon Miller back and with Kon being a winning player---they should be better
Portland--not sure if they were trying to tank based on how they drafted
New Orleans--cant afford to tank since they gave up their first next year
Milwaukee--super worried about them tanking
Pacers--without Haliburton, they are probably a 32-50 team unless Ben steps up. They could be in the tanking mix
Sixers--they should be alot better. not worried about them
Suns--we want them to tank as long as we are also tanking
Miami--looks like one of the worst teams in the league. they may tank

anyone else i am missing

with the east being so open this year--maybe less teams will be tanking?/

Brooklyn and Toronto are the weird ones from last year in that we thought they were tanking and then they seemed to play at a .350 clip all year instead of a .200 clip, weird. Not sure.

Utah and Charlotte: Both stink, but both appear to be trying to improve the bottom line faster than we are.

Portland: Wild card, I think '24-'25 could be an outlier, normally, but I think they are making win now moves in a. conference that keeps getting better than they are around them. I think they will probably slip a little, or stay about the same.

Sixers/Suns: Both teams want to win, but the Suns are a mess, I don't really know what they are doing. The Sixers seem to be playing to win and VJ will help A TON.

Miami is really in a bind, but they did play .500ish basketball and were nearly 13-9 (if Bub doesn't make that shot) down the stretch.

I would guess for now, the biggest threats remain Utah, Charlotte, New Orleans, Brooklyn and Toronto are the biggest concerns, with Phoenix, and Miami being the stealth concerns.

For us, the concern would be that Bilal from the first month arrives full season, Sarr and Bub take a big step forward, and Tre is ROY of year material, in which case we could climb from teens to high 20's or a lil better, but for now, Vegas says this and I always follow Vegas:

The Worst:
1st: Charlotte +60000
2nd: Washington +60000

The Almost Worst:
3rd: Chicago +50000
4th: Portland +50000
5th: Utah: +50000

THe blech:
6th: Phoenix: +25000
7th: Brooklyn: +25000
8th: New Orleans: +25000
9th: Sacramento: +25000

The meh:
10th: Toronto: +15000
11th: Memphis: +15000
12th: Miami: +15000

It's interesting because the new odds are in part a reflection of what Vegas thought of teams drafts: Not impressed with Chicago, Portland, Phoenix, New Orleans, Sacramento etc.

Washington moved from 1st worst to 2nd worst post draft if anyone is wondering.

nate33 wrote:I think there are only 3 teams that will start out the season without caring a bit about wins and losses: WAS, UTA and BRK. Everyone else at least wants to win games, which gives us a big advantage in the tanking battle. There are certainly a few bad teams that may not win much and could eventually shift to a tanking stance, but they won't start out that way. Those teams include: Charlotte, Toronto, New Orleans, Philly, Sacramento, Chicago and Portland.

We don't really have to worry about Milwaukee tanking because they don't control their pick. Same with Phoenix.

Indy is still a 38+ win team without Haliburton, given the weakness of the East.

Unless I'm mistaken, Phoenix accidentally tanking would work great for us as it would up our swap chances so long as we didn't end up below 8 in the lottery (finishing 5th worst or even better than that in terms of record).

So personally, I'm all for Phoenix totally imploding, I'm expecting us to win 15-26 games, which should make us bottom 3, if Phoenix's build fails, totally possible, and they win 32 or fewer, I'm guessing Phoenix's pick falls in that 5th-10th best odds, which significantly improves our chances of landing a top 3-4 pick, the higher it is.

nate33 wrote:

Rafael122 wrote:Brooklyn is the only one I’m thinking about. It sounds like Utah is done with tanking but Brooklyn is straight up saying they’re going to suck.

Remember, there is absolutely no difference in lottery odds to land a top 4 pick whether you are the worst, second-worst or third-worst team. All 3 of those teams have exactly a 52.1% chance at a top 4 pick. And even the fourth-worst team has only slightly worse odds (48.1%). So Brooklyn and one other team can out-tank us with no impact whatsoever on us landing a top 4 pick.

Any of them have a pick swap with a crap team like we do?

Forgot about Memphis. They should actually tank and probably will

Yikes. How could I forget about Chicago?

Simmons and Russillo last night were talking about the largely inexplicable wtf quality of what Chicago is doing. It's really wild to see the past 27 years of blech since those idiots sent Jordan and Jackson out the door.

We are in danger of being better than we thought. We have a critical mass of solid young talent and responsible solid vets.

Sent from my SM-S926U1 using RealGM mobile app

gambitx777 wrote:We are in danger of being better than we thought. We have a critical mass of solid young talent and responsible solid vets.

Sent from my SM-S926U1 using RealGM mobile app

My top 5, no particular order: Cleveland, Orlando, Atlanta, New York, Detroit.

Last 3 in: Indiana, Milwaukee, Philadelphia

Rounding out play-in: Miami, Toronto, Chicago

Bottom 4: Charlotte, Washington, Brooklyn and Boston

Boston would be lucky to win 35 games next year.

Jay81 wrote:Brookyln--looks like they drafted players who will ensure they are the worst team in the league
Utah--if they decide to play Laurie and he stays healthy and if ACE plays well---they will still suck but they could still be better than us i guess.They said they want to try this year.
Toronto--i think they should be tanking but if they also traded for Ingram. They should be better than us right?
Charlotte--if they stay healthy and get Brandon Miller back and with Kon being a winning player---they should be better
Portland--not sure if they were trying to tank based on how they drafted
New Orleans--cant afford to tank since they gave up their first next year
Milwaukee--super worried about them tanking
Pacers--without Haliburton, they are probably a 32-50 team unless Ben steps up. They could be in the tanking mix
Sixers--they should be alot better. not worried about them
Suns--we want them to tank as long as we are also tanking
Miami--looks like one of the worst teams in the league. they may tank

anyone else i am missing

with the east being so open this year--maybe less teams will be tanking?/

Miami doesn't tank. Milwuakee could tank but they have a pick swap with the Pelicans who have a pick swap with Atlanta so no incentive there.
Toronto should be better than the Wizards barring injury.
Portland is close to us.
Pacers are too good to tank.
Suns are too good to tank.
Utah will be tanking - Ace playing well or not well will have no impact.

Tbh, after last years draft lottery I don't think we'll see tanking. There are young teams that will prioritize developing players but the benefits of tanking are greatly reduced.