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Ooh, my favorite topic. I went to Argentina for a year as an exchange student in 1986 and this is the first thing they taught you at the local basketball club. Flop flop flop! Make sure to yell out "oof!" loudly to get the official's attention!

I think the cure to flopping on defense is really simple: To get a charge on defense you have to be ABSOLUTELY STILL. If you are moving you get charged with a blocking foul. The way they call it now is simply stupid and takes away from the beauty of the game. Being able to leap in front of somebody is good defense?

If the player on offense leaves his feet and the defender moves underneath him, it's a blocking foul.

I think that subjective officiating is part of the game The officials miss calls just like players miss shots. The problem is that floppers are trying to take advantage of that. I think it's a cowardly way to play but if you can get an official to buy a call, more power to you. The onus is on the NBA to better train it's officials to tell the difference between a flop and a legit foul. And even then they'll still miss some. That's life.

I say make it a "point of emphasis" for the officials next year (like palming was this year) and leave it at that. Not rewarding flopping as much will cause at least some players to adjust and the game will improve a bit. If they start fining or suspending people after the fact it's only going to get uglier because the decisions on what is or is not a flop will also be completely subjective. Players will be cited for flopping purely on reputation just like fouls are called because of reputation. Then we're essentially back were we started.

I've always disliked the idea of it, even though I would pull it off in games now and then. You'll never see anybody doing it in competitive pickup games. Why? Because the competitive response would be to push back or swat their shot out of bounds. Of course that often results in a foul, but flopping just seems like a way to copout and attempt to play off the official. There's an art to it, I just don't think it enhances the game of basketball in ANY way. (i.e. Varejao flopping 5 times in game 1 of the Finals last year comes to mind)

There was an interview some reporter did with Varejao last year about it and Varejao mentioned the fact there's a circle sometimes forces the ref's hand, where in the international game it's not called as much because the refs focus more on whether the player is moving. I wish I could remember it exactly and articulate it more accurately, I'll have to look harder for the article...

And fining the player seems like the wrong way to go, since there will inevitably be instances where the player gets the call on the floor and is fined for it later. Seems like it could result in a mess.

I find it ironic that the Spurs are the team arguing the ruling, and Manu's face is on most of the articles

And lastly, in the words of Rasheed Wallace:
"All that bull[expletive]-ass calls they had out there. With Mike [Callahan] and Kenny [Mauer] -- you've all seen that [expletive]," Wallace said. "You saw them calls. The cats are flopping all over the floor and they're calling that [expletive]. That [expletive] ain't basketball out there. It's all [expletive] entertainment. You all should know that [expletive]. It's all [expletive] entertainment."

i think flopping is dirty when people try to draw a charge EVERY TIME (anderson varajao....)

i'm ok with flopping every once and a while, but if it gets out of hand (anderson varajao....), then it's a problem.

i can't think of many wizards who flop excessively, mostly because Blatche and Haywood just go for the block every time.

Yeah, officiating flops is a very subjective thing, and good officials see when there is or isn't legit contact. Maybe it's just me, but I don't see flopping as being a big problem in the NBA. I've always thought a bigger problem is offensive players intentionally creating contact to draw fouls, and that's been going for decades and decades. For every flop attempt, there's at least a dozen of those.

Zonker, I do think part of the origen of flopping lies with the refs, specifically the charge call. Most refs won't give it to you unless you fall back--and not just any old way, you pretty much have to fall straight back, rather than turning and catching yourself with your hands. It's ridiculous.

Ruzious--I'm in agreement w/you on the forced contact. I think they are starting to catch on but a few years ago I saw Iverson live and I swear from time to time he was chasing defenders when he had the ball trying to bump into them.

W. Unseld wrote:Ruzious--I'm in agreement w/you on the forced contact. I think they are starting to catch on but a few years ago I saw Iverson live and I swear from time to time he was chasing defenders when he had the ball trying to bump into them.

Lebron has absolutely mastered the art. He could draw a foul on an apple tree.

To be fair, Gilbert ain't too shabby at it, either.

Remember that absolutely preposterous call against BH in the playoffs when Sczerbiak launched himself into him and drew a blocking foul? Stupid. How can you make that call and call yourself a professional ref?

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5ln1s ... pper_sport

Discuss

An honest to allmighty, no contact "flop" should be exactly what it is. No contact = no call. The NBA needs to place a point of emphasis on consistent calls!! A no call will, in many cases, result in an easy basket. After several no calls and easy baskets the players will adjust. The coaches will probably adjust first. I am concerned that the NBA will actually take the responsibility of the charge call away from the referees. They already took the offensive foul call away from under the basket with "the circle rule". And they don't get that right half of the time. The only way the NBA can get out from under the spectre of "the big fix" is to be consistent in their officiating. Flop this!!!!

I'm playing for a high school freshman team and one of the things the coach taught us was to take a charge. The thing is, if you actually do get hit you can make the noise to bring it to the refs attention, but otherwise don't try to fake it. It doesn't really make sense to me to standi there on purpose to be hit by a guy running at you. I don't see why you should even do that. the whole idea is kinda stupid to me.
I say, dont flop. play the game. if the guy runs into you and its legit and he knocks you over for real, ok. take the ball. but dont try to make a movie out of it and act out the whole thing.

Was watching some 1980s b-ball on ESPN Classic and it amazed me what you had to go through to draw a charge. You had to be rock solid still, planted like a tree, for awhile, and the offensive player had to plow into you like a dump truck for it to be called charging.

As a result, few players tried to draw it unless they knew they had a good shot at catching some guy who was obviously out of control.

Of course, this was also the 80s NBA when the Pistons could beat the crap out of Jordan and Pippen and it didnt draw suspensions. Instead, Sports Illustrated lauded you and your coach for inventing the "Jordan Rules".

Different times, man.

And they didn't even mention our beloved LaBron.


This is going to be really hard to ref. Specially if there are fines.

They may be better off calling it a delay of game penalty. That way they can get a warning. If they do it again, you get a T and get free throws.

Or, the refs don't have to call anything. Just let them play. If you flop, your on the ground out of position. If you complain, give then a T.

Refs feel like they have to call something. Just don't call anything. Why is that so hard? That goes for flopping on defense and flailing around like an octopus on offense.

ZonkertheBrainless wrote:Refs feel like they have to call something. Just don't call anything. Why is that so hard? That goes for flopping on defense and flailing around like an octopus on offense.

Exactly. But I might add, flopping/flailing all contribute to the lack of integrity to the game. A charge is a charge. A flop does not mean a charge was created. And the thing is, the refs call flops and know when they are calling one. It all goes back to integrity, favoritism, and cheating. The fans see it on television or in the arena. The announcers with courtside seats recognize it. And so do the refs, who have the best view usually because they are on the actual court. Yes refs can be out of position, but too often obvious flopping is rewarded. Reggie Miller can kick his leg out shooting a 3 and be rewarded. My question is: Do the refs watch the man with the ball?

milesfd1 wrote:An honest to allmighty, no contact "flop" should be exactly what it is. No contact = no call. The NBA needs to place a point of emphasis on consistent calls!! A no call will, in many cases, result in an easy basket. After several no calls and easy baskets the players will adjust. The coaches will probably adjust first. I am concerned that the NBA will actually take the responsibility of the charge call away from the referees. They already took the offensive foul call away from under the basket with "the circle rule". And they don't get that right half of the time. The only way the NBA can get out from under the spectre of "the big fix" is to be consistent in their officiating. Flop this!!!!

Great posts in this thread. I was expecting a bunch of posts saying flopping is killing the game. I wonder if the NBA is putting this out as a diversionary tactic - though I haven't figured out what they're diversioning.

Interesting stuff.

First off I think we need to acknowledge that flopping has been taught as part of the American game for a long time (as well as the intl game). I know when I was a kid that "taking charges" was part of organized practice including being shown how to stay on your heels so you fall back easier and an emphasis on selling the charge.

That being said I really hate it and it really is ruining the game. I think there are two problems, 1: lazy refs and 2: conniving players. But the real problem to creating a solution (imo) is the veneer of objectivity that is placed over the subjective nature of officiating. all humans are subjective. It would be virtually impossible (and not fun to watch since there would be hundreds of fouls called) to call a truly objective game. Instead i think we need to change the mentality of the officials. Acknowledge that officiating is subjective and get them to focus more on fairness and controlling the flow of the game. Call less things, not more. The best refs are those that aren't noticed but that don't let things get out of hand. Once we (the NBA and refs) accept the fallibility of the officials then perhaps things can be fixed.

Let's be honest the game has gotten much faster and players have become much better at cheating. What was once good solid selective gamesmanship has now become commonplace and endemic (punishing those that play fair). The refs need to adjust, accept their fallibility and fell free to swallow the whistle. In that regard I think an honest official critique of calls (post game) would help them see how players are cheating and where they are missing things.

But it can't all just be on the refs. the players need to be made accountable and the only way to do that is to start punishing them post-hoc. I'd review every game and start suspending players for egregious flopping under the clause of "bringing disrepute to the game". It may sound heavy handed in the short term but the situation is arising where teams are now punished if they don't cheat and the only way to fix that is through drastic measures, no amount of increased emphasis is going to fix it because there are too many instances where things happen outside the view of the refs (see LeCryBaby's demonstrations with Songaila).