ImageImageImageImageImage

Wiz 2nd Most Wasteful Franchise

Moderators: montestewart, LyricalRico, nate33

closg00
RealGM
Posts: 24,431
And1: 4,435
Joined: Nov 21, 2004

Wiz 2nd Most Wasteful Franchise 

Post#1 » by closg00 » Tue Apr 7, 2009 8:05 pm

2. Washington Wizards, $70.6 million payroll, $3.72 million per win ... All went wrong here: The early firing of coach Eddie Jordan amid the essentially season-long injuries to center Brendan Haywood ($5.5 million) and All-NBA point guard Gilbert Arenas ($14.7 million), who had signed a six-year, $111 million contract last summer. The Wizards are optimistic of a resurgence based on a return to health, the investment in a new coach and a strong result in the draft lottery next month, which may well result in them trading their pick for immediate help. They may also need to leverage the draft in a trade to save $6 million or more in order to sneak under the luxury tax next season.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/w ... ncy/1.html

Contrast with the most efficient team

1. Orlando Magic, $70.1 million payroll, $1.13 million per win ... The 2007 signing of Rashard Lewis (making $18 million this season, the second of his five-year deal) doesn't look so bad now that he's an All-Star helping Dwight Howard lead the Magic into contention. This summer, however, the owners will have to decide whether to pay a luxury tax. If Hedo Turkoglu doesn't opt out (he's owed $7.4 million next year) and if they hold onto Rafer Alston at his $5.3 million, the Magic's commitment to 10 players alone will hike them $2 million over the projected tax threshold before they begin paying their draft picks. Results in the upcoming postseason may dictate whether Turkoglu becomes a free agent and whether his price is met by Orlando. Management will want to enter its new building next season with a promising team.


Interesting read, I wasn't sure where/if this belonged in another thread.
User avatar
TheSecretWeapon
RealGM
Posts: 17,122
And1: 877
Joined: May 29, 2001
Location: Milliways
Contact:
       

Re: Wiz 2nd Most Wasteful Franchise 

Post#2 » by TheSecretWeapon » Tue Apr 7, 2009 8:43 pm

Kevin Pelton beat Sports Illustrated to the punch by a couple days over at Basketball Prospectus. His formula reached basically the same conclusion. Not surprising considering how the Wizards were decimated by injury this season. A few seasons ago (when I wrote this kind of article -- Pelton also beat me to the punch this year) the Wizards were close to the top of this kind of list.
"A lot of what we call talent is the desire to practice."
-- Malcolm Gladwell

Check out my blog about the Wizards, movies, writing, music, TV, sports, and whatever else comes to mind.
User avatar
nate33
Forum Mod - Wizards
Forum Mod - Wizards
Posts: 70,074
And1: 22,488
Joined: Oct 28, 2002

Re: Wiz 2nd Most Wasteful Franchise 

Post#3 » by nate33 » Tue Apr 7, 2009 8:54 pm

TheSecretWeapon wrote:Kevin Pelton beat Sports Illustrated to the punch by a couple days over at Basketball Prospectus. His formula reached basically the same conclusion. Not surprising considering how the Wizards were decimated by injury this season. A few seasons ago (when I wrote this kind of article -- Pelton also beat me to the punch this year) the Wizards were close to the top of this kind of list.

Top of which list? The "cost efficient" list. Or the "cost inefficient" list.
User avatar
TheSecretWeapon
RealGM
Posts: 17,122
And1: 877
Joined: May 29, 2001
Location: Milliways
Contact:
       

Re: Wiz 2nd Most Wasteful Franchise 

Post#4 » by TheSecretWeapon » Tue Apr 7, 2009 9:18 pm

nate33 wrote:
TheSecretWeapon wrote:Kevin Pelton beat Sports Illustrated to the punch by a couple days over at Basketball Prospectus. His formula reached basically the same conclusion. Not surprising considering how the Wizards were decimated by injury this season. A few seasons ago (when I wrote this kind of article -- Pelton also beat me to the punch this year) the Wizards were close to the top of this kind of list.

Top of which list? The "cost efficient" list. Or the "cost inefficient" list.


Sorry -- cost efficient list.
"A lot of what we call talent is the desire to practice."
-- Malcolm Gladwell

Check out my blog about the Wizards, movies, writing, music, TV, sports, and whatever else comes to mind.
User avatar
Zerocious
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,784
And1: 0
Joined: Dec 17, 2006
Location: Wizards purgatory

Re: Wiz 2nd Most Wasteful Franchise 

Post#5 » by Zerocious » Tue Apr 7, 2009 9:20 pm

cost per win. win a few more then we're cheap!! who'll calculate our effeciency with say 45 wins?
User avatar
Chocolate City Jordanaire
RealGM
Posts: 54,517
And1: 10,286
Joined: Aug 05, 2001
       

Re: Wiz 2nd Most Wasteful Franchise 

Post#6 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Tue Apr 7, 2009 9:28 pm

I proposed before last draft and free agency period the following:

1. Don't resign Gil because of the injuries and the fact he opted out following an injury-prone year. I used the phrases "body breaking down" and possible njury risk the rest of his career". I said then Arenas may never be the same again and that it was very risky offering $127 Mil. I thought Washington, valuing marketing and mediocrity/continuity hadn't considered the risk.

2. Don't resign Jamison, either--Gil's principle demand. I like Jamison a lot, but thought he and Gilbert were primarily offensive players.

3. Sign Ramon Sessions, who just had a triple double the other day. And who's had a 20 pt/20 ast game, as well as a 44 pt game. 22years old.. Said he could surely start when others were saying he was a D-Leaguer.

4. Draft Mario Chalmers. Wizards are still looking for help at PG and this kid's starting for a playoff-bound team. I said he was definitely a winner and a guy I thought could start in the NBA.

No way of knowing what the record would have been, but I bet my ideas then don't look too shabby now.

What I think the Wizards should do after this season is trade for Tracy McGrady's expiring deal. If they get Griffin they should trade Antawn or Caron to Houston., and just buy McGrady out. He is done.
Tre Johnson is the future of the Wizards.
User avatar
Zerocious
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,784
And1: 0
Joined: Dec 17, 2006
Location: Wizards purgatory

Re: Wiz 2nd Most Wasteful Franchise 

Post#7 » by Zerocious » Tue Apr 7, 2009 9:34 pm

neh, how about we do what we always do..........

sit around do nothing, wait for next season and keep our fingers crossed continuity will cruise us to the finals....
Ruzious
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 47,909
And1: 11,582
Joined: Jul 17, 2001
       

Re: Wiz 2nd Most Wasteful Franchise 

Post#8 » by Ruzious » Tue Apr 7, 2009 10:06 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:I proposed before last draft and free agency period the following:

1)Don't resign Gil because of the injuries and the fact he opted out following an injury-prone year. I used the phrases "body breaking down" and possible njury risk the rest of his career". I said then Arenas may never be the same again and that it was very risky offering $127 Mil. I thought Washington, valuing marketing and mediocrity/continuity hadn't considered the risk.

2. Don't resign Jamison, either--Gil's principle demand. I like Jamison a lot, but thought he and Gilbert were primarily offensive players.

3. Sign Ramon Sessions (who just had a triple double the other day. And who's had a 20 pt/2ast game, as well as a 44 pt game. 22years old.). Said he could surely start when others were saying he was a D-Leaguer.

4. Draft Mario Chalmers. Wizards are still looking for help at PG and this kid's starting for a playoff-bound team. I said he was definitely a winner and a guy I thought could start in the NBA.

No way of knowing what the record would have been, but I bet my ideas then don't look too shabby now.

What I think the Wizards should do after this season is trade for Tracy McGrady's expiring deal. If they get Griffin they should trade Antawn or Caron to Houston., and just buy McGrady out. He is done.

I still don't like your plan - because yagotsno player who's a number 1 option. You put together a .500 team. The problem wasn't signing Arenas; it was signing Jamison to the contract they gave him. I know you love Sessions, but he's an average point guard who too often hogs the ball doing nothing for 20 seconds before making a move. He had that streak of games where he got to the line at a great rate, but since then - mediocrity. The Association adjusts. If you were going to go for a Buck PG, Mo Williams would have been a better choice.
"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." - Douglas Adams
User avatar
Chocolate City Jordanaire
RealGM
Posts: 54,517
And1: 10,286
Joined: Aug 05, 2001
       

Re: Wiz 2nd Most Wasteful Franchise 

Post#9 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Tue Apr 7, 2009 10:34 pm

Average PGs don't have a PER of 17.7 at 22 years old. (By definition the league average is 15.)

FYI--Mo Williams' PER was 17.0. T.J. Ford was 13.1 at 22 before posting 18 and 20 two season and 16.4 this season. Rondo was 15.6 for the Celtics in their championship year and 18.8 this season.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIL/2009.html

Ruz, Sessions is playing for Skiles who's in love with Luke Ridnour. Sessions was fine when Ridnour was injured. Sessions stats also took a hit due to him playing a lot of SG due to Redd's injury.

As for my plan, Igotsno player who's a number 1 fo sho. But I gots plenty money to go get 1. My post was in response to cost inefficiency.

My team would have won more games at half the salary. I think the team makes the playoffs without a number one option. They did it last season.
Tre Johnson is the future of the Wizards.
User avatar
20MexicanosIn1Van
Veteran
Posts: 2,985
And1: 321
Joined: May 15, 2004
 

Re: Wiz 2nd Most Wasteful Franchise 

Post#10 » by 20MexicanosIn1Van » Tue Apr 7, 2009 10:50 pm

The problem wasn't resigning Arenas it was resigning him for that much when no other team would have offered nearly that much money.
User avatar
BigA
Analyst
Posts: 3,091
And1: 999
Joined: Oct 05, 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
 

Re: Wiz 2nd Most Wasteful Franchise 

Post#11 » by BigA » Tue Apr 7, 2009 11:02 pm

20MexicanosIn1Van wrote:The problem wasn't resigning Arenas it was resigning him for that much when no other team would have offered nearly that much money.


Weren't the Warriors going to offer him a max deal?
fishercob
RealGM
Posts: 13,922
And1: 1,571
Joined: Apr 25, 2002
Location: Tenleytown, DC

Re: Wiz 2nd Most Wasteful Franchise 

Post#12 » by fishercob » Tue Apr 7, 2009 11:22 pm

Wizards in the media thread? My OCD is kicking in...
"Some people have a way with words....some people....not have way."
— Steve Martin
FreeBalling
Starter
Posts: 2,486
And1: 218
Joined: Jan 30, 2007
 

Re: Wiz 2nd Most Wasteful Franchise 

Post#13 » by FreeBalling » Tue Apr 7, 2009 11:26 pm

BigA wrote:
20MexicanosIn1Van wrote:The problem wasn't resigning Arenas it was resigning him for that much when no other team would have offered nearly that much money.


Weren't the Warriors going to offer him a max deal?


YES 5 years @ 103 Mill.
FINAL UPDATE
With full military honors, Master Sgt. James W Holt was laid to rest at Arlington National Cemetery today. May 15
You Are Not Forgotten
RIP Master Sergent Holt :usa:

The ultimate sacrifice http://taskforceomegainc.org/H061.html
FreeBalling
Starter
Posts: 2,486
And1: 218
Joined: Jan 30, 2007
 

Re: Wiz 2nd Most Wasteful Franchise 

Post#14 » by FreeBalling » Wed Apr 8, 2009 12:14 am

Wizards 111 @ 6 years = 18,500,000
GS 103 @ 5 years = 20,600,000
FINAL UPDATE
With full military honors, Master Sgt. James W Holt was laid to rest at Arlington National Cemetery today. May 15
You Are Not Forgotten
RIP Master Sergent Holt :usa:

The ultimate sacrifice http://taskforceomegainc.org/H061.html
User avatar
MJG
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,403
And1: 151
Joined: Aug 14, 2004
Location: Northern Virginia

Re: Wiz 2nd Most Wasteful Franchise 

Post#15 » by MJG » Wed Apr 8, 2009 2:04 am

20MexicanosIn1Van wrote:The problem wasn't resigning Arenas it was resigning him for that much when no other team would have offered nearly that much money.

You're probably thinking of Stevenson.
User avatar
20MexicanosIn1Van
Veteran
Posts: 2,985
And1: 321
Joined: May 15, 2004
 

Re: Wiz 2nd Most Wasteful Franchise 

Post#16 » by 20MexicanosIn1Van » Wed Apr 8, 2009 2:40 am

FreeBalling wrote:Wizards 111 @ 6 years = 18,500,000
GS 103 @ 5 years = 20,600,000


I stand corrected.
User avatar
Ced67
Senior
Posts: 513
And1: 0
Joined: May 05, 2005

The Wizards Crappy Financial Situation 

Post#17 » by Ced67 » Thu Apr 9, 2009 1:05 pm

***Mods, please feel free to merge this thread with another.***

So, Im going through hoopshype to find out how to work out a Bosh for Caron, picks added, and I am stunned to see how bad this team is financially up until the 2011-2012 season. I could be completely wrong and could be misunderstanding the entire situation, but my thought was that after the 2010 season when Etan and Mike James' contracts are up that this team would have a big chunk of cap room and would be able to give 'Wood a raise(I didn't do it on purpose), resign DMac and still have a good amount of money left over.

What I didn't factor in initially was the natural progression of the current contracts on the roster, or the difference in the '09-'10 and '10-'11 salaries.

Gil -- $16,192,080 ('09-'10) --- $17,730,694 ('10-'11 )
Jamison --- $11,641,095 ('09-'10) ---- $13,358,905 ('10-'11)
Caron ---- $9,780,970 ('09-'10) --- $10,561,960 ('10-'11)

And it goes on like this for everyone. Although losing Mike James and Etan will result in cap relief of about $13.8 mill from the previous year, a big chunk of that is off set by contract raises going into the 2010-2011 season. This could be a well known thing that I never even thought about but I can say that Im pretty darn disappointed because unless Abe is willing to go sky hi over the luxury tax threshold we're pretty much stuck with this same team for a while, or we'll have to blow it up after next season, unless we can make a Marcus Camby type trade to clear cap this summer. Not to mention the fact that we'll have to resign a 31 year old Caron Butler in the summer of 2011. Are we gonna get the money for that?

I found this # in a post that predicted the luxury tax threshold and salary cap numbers for the next couple of seasons. viewtopic.php?f=4&t=886483. It says that the projected 2010 salary cap will be around $56.5 mill and the projected luxury tax threshold will be around $68.5 mill.

So far these are the dedicated salaries for the 2010-2011 season
Gil -- $17,730,694
Jamison -- $13,358,905
Caron -- $10,561,960
Songaila -- $4,818,000
DeShawn -- $4,151,786
Blatche -- $3,260,331
Nick Young -- $2,630,503
Pecherov(team option)(or this yrs 1st rounder) -- $2,380,270 (+2,000,000(I would think that they would not pick up the team option but you can just substitute Pec's name with this years first rounder and add about 2mill to the salary since the first rounder will be so high. So if we get the 2nd pick, the salary will be in the 4.3 mill area
McGee -- $1,601,040
Critt(team option)(or 2010 1st rounder) -- $2,275,996 -- Regardless of whether or not they pick up his option for the 2010-2011 season at least this salary will be occupied for a back up PG, possibly the 2010 draft pick.



That already totals $55,881,676 (http://hoopshype.com/salaries/washington.htm). If you factor in a raise to $8.5 for Haywood(not accounted for in the original list), and a raise to a minimum of $3.5 mill for DMac(also not accounted in orig list). You're now at $67,881,676. You haven't made a single move other than resigning Haywood and DMac and replacing Opec and Critt with the 2009 and 2010 first round picks. Am I right on this are am I doing so math wrong or something because the luxury tax threshold in 2010-2011 is projected at $68.5 mill. So although we get rid of Etan and Mike James we are still handcuffed by resigning Haywood and DMac.
"We kept acquiring projects. Nick is a project. JaVale is a project. Javaris is a project. Eventually when you have enough projects, you live in the 'hood." --Gilbert Arenas

john2jer wrote:Only way we trade [Delonte] West is if Paul, Howard, or Kobe is coming back.
Benjammin
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,471
And1: 624
Joined: Jan 18, 2003

Re: The Wizards Crappy Financial Situation 

Post#18 » by Benjammin » Thu Apr 9, 2009 2:49 pm

Gosh, I'm glad that dawn has broken over you. When you have three guys with large contracts and others with medium sized deals you will be up against the luxury tax. That is not a revelation; that is a reality. Re-signing Jamison and Gil meant that the Wizards would not be a player in free agency for the next several years; that's just the way it is.

And by the way, this could go into any number of different threads. IBTM
FreeBalling
Starter
Posts: 2,486
And1: 218
Joined: Jan 30, 2007
 

Re: Wiz 2nd Most Wasteful Franchise 

Post#19 » by FreeBalling » Thu Apr 9, 2009 10:13 pm

When you did the math who is the owner in 2012?
FINAL UPDATE
With full military honors, Master Sgt. James W Holt was laid to rest at Arlington National Cemetery today. May 15
You Are Not Forgotten
RIP Master Sergent Holt :usa:

The ultimate sacrifice http://taskforceomegainc.org/H061.html

Return to Washington Wizards