RealGM

I have REALLY wanted to say something about this for a while but sadly, my procrastinating self has been upstaged by this:

http://www.bulletsforever.com/2009/6/1/ ... a#comments

Still, I really feel it has to be said, because this misconception has been perpetuated by many well meaning watchers of the Wizards - that the Wizards' problems stem from anything on the offensive side of the ball, that is, that Gilbert Arenas is not a "pure PG".

The article already discusses how we were an elite offensive team with our "not pure PG" every year he was healthy, including #3 in offensive effiiency. But let's add some other tibits of information:

Gilbert Arenas TS%
2004-05: .565
2005-06: .581
2006-07: .565

For reference:

Kobe Bryant TS%
2004-05 .563
2005-06 .559
2006-07 .580

Dwayne Wade TS%
2004-05 .583
2006-07 .583
2008-09 .574

Lebron James TS%
04: .552
05: .568
06: .552

This immediately puts the lie to the notion that Gilbert Arenas is not as good a scorer as the elite players in the NBA.

He also brings comparable win shares (despite having one glaring weakness on the other end), and comparable on/off numbers.

So why are we asking him to NOT be what he's always been - a top 3-5 offensive player in the NBA? Because he plays "PG".

Now, the argument goes "but scoring PGs have never won a title"

Well, let's look at "scoring PGs". I'm going to assume for the purposes of the discussion that one is referring to players like Iverson, Marbury, Francis, and Baron Davis, to list a few.

Iverson's .519 TS% speaks for itself. He's barely more efficient than Eric Snow. Gil has never posted below 540 in a healthy season.

Marbury? .528%.

Baron Davis? .502%.

Franchise posted respectable TS%, but nothing too spectactular. He also never really had a great team around him (did he ever play with Yao?)

Ultimately, more assists and better shot selection from Gilbert would be nice, but nearly every superstar has the same problem. If he could average 28/5/8, that would be amazing. But to argue that Gil not being more like Chris Paul (who gets schooled by elite PGs on a consistent basis) is simply flawed.

"if it ain't broke don't fix it"

"gil's OFFENSIVE game ain't broke"

well most of the people who want gil to be more of a passing pg wish so because they want him to incorporate more of a team-oriented offense than the stand-and-gawk offense that Cleveland runs. most of the kickouts that Gil drops are to jamison on the right baseline and sometimes back out to stevenson at the top of the key. if gil can consistently prove that he can dump it to haywood, or to someone on the left wing then it would spread out the defense even more and hopefully making our offense more efficient.

as for gil not being able to take us to a title has less to do with him not being an elite guard and more to do with his low post compadres. Kobe/Wade had shaq, and Lebron is a BIG man in his own right.

Haywood not getting the ball was a coaching problem. This shouldn't be an issue now.

Considering everyone who plays with Gilbert Arenas seems to have a career season, I really don't think he makes everyone "stand and gawk" while he does his thing.

He doesn't have to be a "pure PG" but more of a leader and a floor general. He needs to become a leader of this team, a role model for the rooks and a better team defender.

What he needs to do more is to get others involved more in the early quarters of the game and then take over in the end. I used to really like how Hughes would get Haywood involved. I would really like to see Arenas help out Haywood/Blatche/McGee on offense. During the small time Blatche has played with Arenas, I've really liked how the two have performed together. I think that combination has some potential.

Gilbert0Arenas wrote:
What he needs to do more is to get others involved more in the early quarters of the game and then take over in the end.

^^ this. All the pure PG crap is overrated. Look at the PGs who have won titles recently. Tony Parker, Rajon Rondo, whoever the hell started at PG for the Heat(Jason Williams? LOL), even as far back as Chauncey Billups. I'd take a healthy Gil over any of those guys.

Just needs to improve his D. He can be a great defender if he wants to be.

Gilbert over Finals MVP Tony Parker and Prime Billups?

...questionable

Scoring has never been Gil's problem.

But basketball is a 2 way game.

Gil needs to grow up and man up on D.

You totally missing the point. Besides, GA already has said he committed to being more of a triple double player then a straight up scorer. So even Gil gets it.

The point is for him to be more of a floor general, team leader and rounded player. This also involves him helping to develop his teammates during the season by getting them the ball in position to score. This not only helps them develop and builds player and team confidence but it will also limit to wear and tear on GA during the year so he has more in the tank for later in the year. He doesn't have to drive and take the pounding if he can dish it to big boy Haywood. This will also free up more energy for him to play better defense. More blow outs lets to more bench time resting.

Come playoff time, you need a team. And the more healthy and rested they are the better.

This is the total package they are shooting for. Save as much and pounding as you can while developing your team. Then when needed, turn on the scoring and take over. But even then, you have made it easier for yourself because the other team has seen your team score lots of different ways so they have to guard more the court.

It's a win win win win.

Get with the program and enjoy what some of us have been waiting years to see.

Gil's problem is he's like you guys, always worrying about how he can improve his offensive game. Like it or not he is the leader of the team, and he sets the example everyone else follows. If he's goofy, everybody else on the team acts goofy. If he does not take defense seriously, no one else on the team does. To improve he needs to start puking on the sidelines because he is trying so goddam hard on defense. He needs to start dressing down the younguns for not puking on the sidelines because of their over the top effort on defense.

And Flip can help make Gil a better player by not playing him 40 minutes a night so Gil does not have the excuse that he has to save his energy for the offensive end.

ZonkertheBrainless wrote:Gil's problem is he's like you guys, always worrying about how he can improve his offensive game. Like it or not he is the leader of the team, and he sets the example everyone else follows. If he's goofy, everybody else on the team acts goofy. If he does not take defense seriously, no one else on the team does. To improve he needs to start puking on the sidelines because he is trying so goddam hard on defense. He needs to start dressing down the younguns for not puking on the sidelines because of their over the top effort on defense.

And Flip can help make Gil a better player by not playing him 40 minutes a night so Gil does not have the excuse that he has to save his energy for the offensive end.

Great! This can be the newest stat.

Pukes per team per game: PTG

Get the buckets...

Higga wrote:

Gilbert0Arenas wrote:
^^ this. All the pure PG crap is overrated. Look at the PGs who have won titles recently. Tony Parker, Rajon Rondo, whoever the hell started at PG for the Heat(Jason Williams? LOL), even as far back as Chauncey Billups. I'd take a healthy Gil over any of those guys.

Just needs to improve his D. He can be a great defender if he wants to be.

Pure PG overrated? PLEASE

Pure PGs make their teammates MUCH better, i.e. CP3, D.Williams, C.Billups. Who the hell has Arenas made better??? A PG job is to faciliate the offense, get other teammates involved and distribute the ball. Not to jack up shots...thats what the shooting guard's job. Imagine if Arenas desided if he was going to be pass first? He could easily average 20pts 8assists and the team would benefit much more because we have plenty of scorers.

Also you are crazy. Billups would make the Wiz a much better team than a healthy Arenas. He would make us play defense, be a real leader and make people like Blatche and McGee better players.

VA_story wrote:Pure PGs make their teammates MUCH better, i.e. CP3, D.Williams, C.Billups. Who the hell has Arenas made better???

Basically every shooting guard ever paired up with him and making the Wizards one of the most efficient offenses in the league?

Who has he made better? Well, Hughes, Jeffries, and Stevensons pockets sure do appreciate Gil right now. They have proven they suck without Gil. Hell, Caron grew into an All-Star playing next to Gil.

go'stags wrote:Who has he made better? Well, Hughes, Jeffries, and Stevensons pockets sure do appreciate Gil right now. They have proven they suck without Gil. Hell, Caron grew into an All-Star playing next to Gil.

QFT, +1, AMEN, etc.

Let's take defense out of the equation. Offensively, Gil has been one of the most effective and efficient offensive players whose talents have allowed others on his team to have open shots and clean looks. He may not to date have been a "traditional" PG, but he's been very effective on the offensive end and the attention he draws gives others on his team many opportunities to maximize their talents.

go'stags wrote:Who has he made better? Well, Hughes, Jeffries, and Stevensons pockets sure do appreciate Gil right now. They have proven they suck without Gil. Hell, Caron grew into an All-Star playing next to Gil.

I agree with the Hughes, Jeffries and Stevenson examples, but not Butler. Butler had his best season in 2007/08 when Arenas missed the entire season.

Fair enough, but one could argue that Butler started on his progression toward where is now when he joined the Wiz, and Gil.

Either way, those are the only three SGs to play next to Gil.

And if Arenas was some ball hogging PG, aka not getting his teamamtes involved, then how could he always have 2 other 20 ppg scorers? I believe Jamison has had his most efficient seasons, outside of being 6th man in Dallas, while playing with Gil. He might have been best these past 2 years, but was he not better his first 3 years in Washington than he ever was on Golden State?

Im not saying I dont want to see a different Gil, and I agree pretty much with Hand's post, but lets not act like Gil was some Marbury type player.

go'stags wrote:Who has he made better? Well, Hughes, Jeffries, and Stevensons pockets sure do appreciate Gil right now. They have proven they suck without Gil. Hell, Caron grew into an All-Star playing next to Gil.

IMO Hughes was benefiting more from the offensive system than Arenas.

Setevenson and Jeffries aren't anything to comment on or bring up.

When I say make better, I'm talking about how CP3 makes Tyson Chandler respectable, how he makes David West an all-star. How Jason Kidd made Kmart an all-star and made Richard Jeffereson play on an all-star level. Or how Billups changed the entire mentality of the Nuggets and made players like Melo and Jr Smith play considerably better.

Of course GIl makes the game come "easier" to his teammates but he doesn't make people better. To make people better as a PG, you have to PASS the ball. Not jack up 20 plus shots a game.

WOW @ looking at other players points to see if hes a ball hog or not. Why not look at his assists? Much as he has the ball in his hands, averaging 5 or 6 assists isn't much. Especially when you consider he wouldn't be in the top 10 in assists this year if he played and put up those same numbers. And again...he dominates the ball, he should have way more assist given that we have plenty of scorers.

Wiz99 wrote:

ZonkertheBrainless wrote:[Gil] needs to start dressing down the younguns for not puking on the sidelines because of their over the top effort on defense.

Great! This can be the newest stat.

Pukes per team per game: PTG

Get the buckets...

Maybe we can bring Rod Strickland back as a player-coach. He was great at this! (the puking on the sidelines part, not the playing defense and inspiring his teammates part).

On a more serious note, I would like to see Gil tweak his offensive game toward better shot selection and more assists, but not make any radical changes on this front. Defense and leadership are where he needs to improve.

When I say make better, I'm talking about how CP3 makes Tyson Chandler respectable

Offensively? Tyson Chandler's value comes from the fact that he's an elite rebounder, shot blocker and post defender.

how he makes David West an all-star.

David West is no better than Jamison.

How Jason Kidd made Kmart an all-star

K-Mart never once averaged over 16.7 ppg and those Nets teams were never really good offensively.

Their first Finals team was 13th in the NBA offensively, but 5th defensively. (5th in ORTG though, but average eFG%/)

Their second Finals team was 14th in the NBA offensively (while being the second best defensive team in basketball) (granted 8th in ORTG, but their eFG simply dreadful - 22th) For whatever reason they were 6 games worse than they should have been, but meh.

And while we're on the subject, they ran the same offensive system that the Washington Wizards ran for the entirety of Gil's playing days here.

and made Richard Jefferson play on an all-star level.

Jefferson was a quality player in a weak East. Gilbert played against stronger talent imo.

Or how Billups changed the entire mentality of the Nuggets and made players like Melo and Jr Smith play considerably better.

The impact of Billups was on defense, in terms of leadership, and in the locker room. It had nothing to do with him being a facilitator.

Of course GIl makes the game come "easier" to his teammates but he doesn't make people better. To make people better as a PG, you have to PASS the ball. Not jack up 20 plus shots a game.

Your problem is that you're confusing "passing" with leadership. Jason Kidd and Chauncey Billups's impact was not on the offensive end; it was in terms of leadership and defense. We are all for Gilbert Arenas becoming a better leader and more focused defender.

WOW @ looking at other players points to see if hes a ball hog or not. Why not look at his assists? Much as he has the ball in his hands, averaging 5 or 6 assists isn't much.

Assists are sometimes a poor way of looking at a player as a playmaker. It depends on the system (unless you want retract your point about Billups not making his team better; seeing he's only broken 7 twice, and the year they won the title he averaged less than 6) - Gilbert Arenas was never the sole playmaker in the offense, and you generally had a balanced team assist ratio. His AST% compares favorably with Billups (about the same) despite shooting a lot more.

A better comparison would be with Kobe, who has way higher usage rates (fun fact; Kobe's highest AST% came in a year the team was 41-41; his last two seasons have been some of his lowest years for that stat; does this mean Kobe being a ball hog HELPS the team?)

Wade has higher AST% but also higher usage rates.

Not even bothering with the Queen.

My point is that Gilbert as a facilitator is nowhere near as bad as you're making him out to be, in an offense that was not geared towards him being that.

As for K-Mart he suffered those knee injuries. He also stopped playing in NJ/EJ's offense.