RealGM

Posted: **Fri Jul 24, 2009 12:25 am**

This Post might be premature….But we have 4 teams to discuss in the South Division so I wanted to start thinking about this.
Roster/Matchups

Wizards
0 Gilbert Arenas /15 Randy Foye/13 Mike James/8 Javaris Crittenton
6 Mike Miller/1 Nick Young/2 DeShawn Stevenson
3 Caron Butler/5 Dominic McGuire
4 Antawn Jamison/ Oberto/ 7 Andray Blatche
33 Brendan Haywood/34 JaVale McGee

Orlando
14 Jameer Nelson PG /8 Anthony Johnson PG
15 Vince Carter SG/Mickael Pietrus/J.J. Redick SG
9 Rashard Lewis SF/Matt Barns SF
30 Brandon Bass PF /33 Ryan Anderson PF 21
12 Dwight Howard C/13 Marcin Gortat C 25

When you look these two teams on Paper I think the Wizards are much better in all areas but one; Center. The Wizards are better penetrators, jump shooters, stronger, deeper, faster, more versatile, better on the boards, and Quicker. I would argue that the moves made by the Wiz this summer are much more of an improvement then what the Magic have done. I think the Magic are actually worse, talent wised, then last year.
The Wizards depth is young but a year more experienced. While we will always worry about “the curse of le bullets”, the moves we made this summer give us protection from injury plus great flexibility with or without someone going down. Look at the interchangeable parts. Now that we have added Oberto we are one of, if not the deepest team in the league!

Coaching
History says this goes to Stan. Flip has been to Con. Finals three times. Stan has been to the finals once and probably would have won a championship with the Heat if Pat R. would have let him coach the team. Don’t forget the year he had before the Shaq trade with the Heat.

Schedule
This is not like football, they will play the same teams the same amount of times. The one difference is Sunday Games in the early winter, Nationally Televised Games, holiday games…Orlando will end up in more big regular season games then the Wizards. The positive for Orlando is they will be tested in high pressure games, perfect practice for the playoffs. The negative is the games will be tougher and could be taxing if they play too many.

I might be projecting positive thoughts here….The Wizards will have a better record than the Magic this year. Will they have a better record than the Heat with the rumored roster changes, well we can talk about that another time.

P.S. My hope is that STAT GUYs on this board look at these teams and prove me right.

Posted: **Fri Jul 24, 2009 2:27 am**

Well I'm biased, but I think we are the strongest team in our division before the Oberto signing.

Posted: **Fri Jul 24, 2009 2:35 am**

Flip > Stan

Posted: **Fri Jul 24, 2009 3:48 am**

Is this thread Ji approved?

Posted: **Fri Jul 24, 2009 3:54 am**

http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/article/2009-07-22/contenders-have-emerged-after-offseason-moves

Saw this on the Magic page, they were bitchin pretty hard about it.

WASHINGTON WIZARDS

What they did: The Wizards shuffled off their No. 5 pick and some spare parts to Minnesota for Randy Foye and Mike Miller, a move that made them the deepest team in the league. They also hired the best coach available, Flip Saunders.

Contender or pretender? Contender. If everyone is healthy -- and that's obviously the big question here -- the Wiz will start Gilbert Arenas, DeShawn Stevenson, Caron Butler, Antawn Jamison and Brendan Haywood. Off the bench will be Miller, Foye, Nick Young, Andray Blatche and JaVale McGee. Oh, and there's Mike James and Dominic McGuire. Saunders will have to figure out how best to deploy all these weapons, and cynics will point out that he doesn't have the greatest of playoff marks. But one thing about the meltdown in Detroit last year is this: It showed that Saunders should not have been blamed for the Pistons' failure to reach The Finals. The guy can coach, and he has plenty to work with.

ORLANDO MAGIC

What they did: The Magic added Vince Carter, but lost two-fifths of their starting five in doing so. Gone are Hedo Turkoglu and Courtney Lee, two key elements of last year's Finals run. In letting Turkoglu go and getting Carter, the Magic may have done the better thing for the franchise's future, avoiding getting tied up in a long-term deal with Turkoglu while only committing to two years of Carter. Orlando made a bizarre decision in keeping backup center Marcin Gortat, a decent player who signed a full midlevel deal with Dallas. They improved their depth by adding forward/center Brandon Bass and small forward Matt Barnes.

Contender or pretender? Pretender...

Posted: **Fri Jul 24, 2009 5:51 am**

If Haywood can handle Howard one-on-one, then the Wizards are a better team.

Posted: **Fri Jul 24, 2009 11:55 am**

If healthy, Orlando will not be able to keep up the scoring pace thru the second unit. The key for Washington for teams that are capable of keeping up with the first unit is will they be able to keep up when the reserves come in and down the stretch Washington has better closers.

Posted: **Fri Jul 24, 2009 12:13 pm**

SonicYouth34 wrote:If Haywood can handle Howard one-on-one, then the Wizards are a better team.

Bingo, that's the real key. If Haywood (and now Oberto) can guard Howard 1-on-1 effectively enough that we don't have to double team him, it will really even things up. Nobody can completely stop Howard but having him get 20/10 instead of 30/15 is a big difference. Blatche can also take him away from the rim. Gortat is good but doesn't see the floor much. Edge to Orlando but not as big of an edge as they have over most teams.

Moving to PF, Brandon Bass is going to have a heckuva time guarding Jamison on the perimeter. And he's not skilled enough to consistently make Jamison pay on the other end. Anderson is pretty one-dimensional (pretty good at that dimension but still one dimensional) so that also makes it easier for Jamison. Clear edge to Washington.

At SF the teams are probably close to equal. Lewis has the edge in size and 3-pt shooting while Butler has the edge in strength and toughness. Slight edge to Butler. The reserves are pretty similar also, with Miller and Barnes both being capable ball handlers and outside shooters. Slight edge to Miller. The Wiz also have a slight edge in depth because of McGuire. Edge to Washington.

Orlando has the obvious edge at SG with Carter and Pietrus. But the size of the edge depends on Nick Young. If he becomes Rip-lite over the course of this offseason, then it's a slight edge. Still, edge to Orlando.

Gilbert Arenas and Randy Foye give the WIzards a big edge at PG. Both are much bigger than Jameer Nelson, which creates matchup problems for Orlando. Anthony Johnson is a wily vet who can defend but is getting old. I would expect Gil and Foye to put up big numbers against the Magic, even on the road.

Oh and Flip is a much better coach than Van Gundy. SVG made some crucial mistakes in the playoffs last year, especially in the Finals. Not to mention that Orlando will have to change much of their style of play because they can no longer run the pick-n-roll with Turkgolu/Lewis that was so difficult for big men to defend against.

Based on my analysis, the Wizards have the edge at 3 of the 5 positions plus coaching. Assuming a reasonable amount of health, we are the better team IMO.

Posted: **Fri Jul 24, 2009 1:01 pm**

no D in Hibachi wrote:http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/article/2009-07-22/contenders-have-emerged-after-offseason-moves

Saw this on the Magic page, they were bitchin pretty hard about it.

This Magic poster sums-up where we are pretty fairly. We will be healthy, but our team (starters especially) will have to find a way to not allow a record number of 3-pointers this year, or allow lay-up drills either.

Magic#1 wrote:Washington will be much better and I'll be very, very surprised if they don't make the playoffs. They have a ton of scoring and will probably score 100+ on the regular basis. The bad part for them is that they'll allow over 100 quite a bit, too. They have to outscore teams to win because they're not going to stop anybody. They're in the secondary level of the East, but they are not in the top tier. Their defense isn't even close, and Orlando/Cleveland/Boston are all at least good defensive teams. It'll be fun to prove critics wrong once again.

Posted: **Fri Jul 24, 2009 1:18 pm**

closg00 wrote:This Magic poster sums-up where we are pretty fairly. We will be healthy, but our team (starters especially) will have to find a way to not allow a record number of 3-pointers this year, or allow lay-up drills either.

Magic#1 wrote:Washington will be much better and I'll be very, very surprised if they don't make the playoffs. They have a ton of scoring and will probably score 100+ on the regular basis. The bad part for them is that they'll allow over 100 quite a bit, too. They have to outscore teams to win because they're not going to stop anybody. They're in the secondary level of the East, but they are not in the top tier. Their defense isn't even close, and Orlando/Cleveland/Boston are all at least good defensive teams. It'll be fun to prove critics wrong once again.

I can't blame him for reaching this conclusion. We'll just have to see whether the awful defense of the past was a product of coaching and scheme, or a product of the players.

There's reason to hope for at least average-caliber defense this year. Flip's match-up zone seems designed to hide some of our weaknesses in perimeter D while capitalizing on the strengths of our interior defenders. Also, the additional depth should enable people to give max effort on D. And finally, Haywood should get more minutes than he ever did under EJ.

But I don't expect any non-Wizards fans to believe me. (I'm not even sure if I do yet.) So for now, expect to hear a lot more of the mantra that the Wizards can score but can't stop anybody.

Posted: **Fri Jul 24, 2009 4:16 pm**

SVG is a very, very good coach. I don't know where this thought that he's some hack came from. Shaq opens his big mouth, and predictably, everybody jumps on his jock and assumes it's true.

He's made some mistakes, but he's also made many more decisions that helped the team than hindered it

Posted: **Fri Jul 24, 2009 4:53 pm**

HeyIt'sMe wrote:SVG is a very, very good coach. I don't know where this thought that he's some hack came from. Shaq opens his big mouth, and predictably, everybody jumps on his jock and assumes it's true.

He's made some mistakes, but he's also made many more decisions that helped the team than hindered it

I wouldn't give Shaq THAT much cred around here. I know myself, CCJ, and others think he's mostly a complete idiot off the court, and now that he's on the Cavs the number of people on that bandwagon will grow VERY quickly. I think SVG and Flip are neck and neck. I personally would take Flip, but maybe that's with my homer shades on.

Posted: **Fri Jul 24, 2009 5:22 pm**

HeyIt'sMe wrote:SVG is a very, very good coach. I don't know where this thought that he's some hack came from. Shaq opens his big mouth, and predictably, everybody jumps on his jock and assumes it's true.

He's made some mistakes, but he's also made many more decisions that helped the team than hindered it

Never said SVG was a bad coach. He's definitely one of the better coaches out there right now. I just think that Flip is better.

Posted: **Fri Jul 24, 2009 5:27 pm**

Stan's a good coach, I just think Flip is better.Thus the Flip>Stan

Posted: **Fri Jul 24, 2009 6:05 pm**

Chad Ford Says the Magic made the second best moves so far this offseason and the Wiz have made the 5th best moves. I strongly diagree! :noway:

2. Orlando Magic

Key additions: Vince Carter, Ryan Anderson, Brandon Bass, Matt Barnes

Key subtractions: Hedo Turkoglu, Courtney Lee, Rafer Alston, Tony Battie

In limbo: Adonal Foyle (U), Tyronn Lue (U)

The Magic decided to throw financial caution to the wind this summer and went on a spending spree. The result is one of the deepest teams in the league and one that should challenge for the NBA championship again next season. For starters, they essentially swapped Turkoglu and Lee for Carter and Anderson. The gamble was that Turkoglu wasn't worth the $50 million he was looking for in the free-agent market and that Carter, whose contract has only two years of guaranteed money remaining, can do as good a job (or better) as Turkoglu. The addition of Bass also helps. The Magic desperately needed toughness, rebounding and depth at the 4, and Bass delivers on all accounts. Barnes provides more depth and 3-point shooting at small forward.

But the big move was the Magic's deciding to match Marcin Gortat's huge offer sheet from the Mavs. Without Gortat, the Magic would have had virtually no depth at center. Now, with him back in the mix, they are deep at virtually every position and look like the favorites to win the East.

5. Washington Wizards

Key additions: Randy Foye, Mike Miller

Key subtractions: Oleksiy Pecherov, Etan Thomas, Darius Songaila

In limbo: Juan Dixon (U)

The Wizards traded the No. 5 pick in the draft -- along with Thomas, Songaila and Pecherov -- to the Wolves for Foye and Miller two days before the draft. Wanting to be serious contenders in the East next season, they didn't think they'd get a player with their first-round pick who would crack their rotation.

Meanwhile, Foye gives them an athletic, dynamic scorer who can play both backcourt positions. And Miller gives them a shooter with deep range, something the Wizards have been missing. If Gilbert Arenas and Brendan Haywood both come back healthy and motivated, the Wizards could be a serious threat in the East.

Posted: **Fri Jul 24, 2009 10:10 pm**

nate33 wrote:
closg00 wrote:This Magic poster sums-up where we are pretty fairly. We will be healthy, but our team (starters especially) will have to find a way to not allow a record number of 3-pointers this year, or allow lay-up drills either.

Magic#1 wrote:Washington will be much better and I'll be very, very surprised if they don't make the playoffs. They have a ton of scoring and will probably score 100+ on the regular basis. The bad part for them is that they'll allow over 100 quite a bit, too. They have to outscore teams to win because they're not going to stop anybody. They're in the secondary level of the East, but they are not in the top tier. Their defense isn't even close, and Orlando/Cleveland/Boston are all at least good defensive teams. It'll be fun to prove critics wrong once again.

I can't blame him for reaching this conclusion. We'll just have to see whether the awful defense of the past was a product of coaching and scheme, or a product of the players.

There's reason to hope for at least average-caliber defense this year. Flip's match-up zone seems designed to hide some of our weaknesses in perimeter D while capitalizing on the strengths of our interior defenders. Also, the additional depth should enable people to give max effort on D. And finally, Haywood should get more minutes than he ever did under EJ.

But I don't expect any non-Wizards fans to believe me. (I'm not even sure if I do yet.) So for now, expect to hear a lot more of the mantra that the Wizards can score but can't stop anybody.

I've always felt that our poor defense in the past has been more of a product of our players than anything else. I don't see our new acquisitions changing that. I hope you are right about Flips system and additional depth improving our D, but I'm inclined to agree with the Orlando poster. The Wizards will not be in the contender status, but will be in the second tier, because of their poor D. Hope they prove me wrong.

Posted: **Fri Jul 24, 2009 10:51 pm**

dandridge 10 wrote:I've always felt that our poor defense in the past has been more of a product of our players than anything else. I don't see our new acquisitions changing that. I hope you are right about Flips system and additional depth improving our D, but I'm inclined to agree with the Orlando poster. The Wizards will not be in the contender status, but will be in the second tier, because of their poor D. Hope they prove me wrong.

I don't expect our defense to improve much either, but I somehow don't buy the notion that Orlando is so much better defensively.

A lot of their effectiveness on that side of the ball has been a result of the pressure the Magics offense exerted on other teams to keep up. With Howard in the middle they were able to limit second chances and take away lanes rather effectively.

How much of an edge that's going to be against a loaded perimeter team like Washington remains to be seen.

Washington won't have to rely on dribble penetration to get things going and they'll have no problem playing that up and down offense that the Magic were able to rattle teams with.

With Butler, Miller, Jamison, Arenas and Young Washington is going to feature a team that should be pretty damn effective in the mid range, and coupled with their long range game will be a matchup nightmare for the Magic.

Orlando got much weaker on the perimeter of their defense with the loss of Lee and Torkuglu, who imho hasn't gotten nearly the credit he deserved for his defense .

Posted: **Sat Jul 25, 2009 12:02 am**

LOL you guys are delusional...Im glad someone posted this gem on the Magic board.

You guys aren't even close.

Posted: **Sat Jul 25, 2009 12:14 am**

mattyBoi wrote:LOL you guys are delusional...

How so...???

Posted: **Sat Jul 25, 2009 12:17 am**

mattyBoi wrote:LOL you guys are delusional...Im glad someone posted this gem on the Magic board.

You guys aren't even close.

Did your GM think the championship would be decide by a dunk contest?? When will you sign Nate?

RealGM

How do the Wiz stack up in the south? PT1 Magic vs Wiz

How do the Wiz stack up in the south? PT1 Magic vs Wiz

Re: How do the Wiz stack up in the south? PT1 Magic vs Wiz

Re: How do the Wiz stack up in the south? PT1 Magic vs Wiz

Re: How do the Wiz stack up in the south? PT1 Magic vs Wiz

Re: How do the Wiz stack up in the south? PT1 Magic vs Wiz

Re: How do the Wiz stack up in the south? PT1 Magic vs Wiz

Re: How do the Wiz stack up in the south? PT1 Magic vs Wiz

Re: How do the Wiz stack up in the south? PT1 Magic vs Wiz

Re: How do the Wiz stack up in the south? PT1 Magic vs Wiz

Re: How do the Wiz stack up in the south? PT1 Magic vs Wiz

Re: How do the Wiz stack up in the south? PT1 Magic vs Wiz

Re: How do the Wiz stack up in the south? PT1 Magic vs Wiz

Re: How do the Wiz stack up in the south? PT1 Magic vs Wiz

Re: How do the Wiz stack up in the south? PT1 Magic vs Wiz

Re: How do the Wiz stack up in the south? PT1 Magic vs Wiz

Re: How do the Wiz stack up in the south? PT1 Magic vs Wiz

Re: How do the Wiz stack up in the south? PT1 Magic vs Wiz

Re: How do the Wiz stack up in the south? PT1 Magic vs Wiz

Re: How do the Wiz stack up in the south? PT1 Magic vs Wiz

Re: How do the Wiz stack up in the south? PT1 Magic vs Wiz