The disrespect of Brendan Todd

[miller31time]

There has been talk on this board of Haywood bolting when he's a free agent for a team willing to pay him 8-10mil per year - something I just can't see happening. No, not because Brendan Haywood is light years behind other centers making comparable dough but because he simply doesn't have the name recognition and notoriety.

Well, this opinion was cemented after reading the following article, ranking the top-20 centers in the Association. We pretty much agree that Wood is a top-12ish center, give or take. But this?

Click here

[benb331]

Also considered: ... Etan Thomas.

[MJG]

Andrea Bargnani at 10th might be the craziest thing I've read all summer. Does the guy do anything especially well besides shoot threes? And how often does he even play at center?

But that aside, I agree with the basic point that Haywood is pretty unlikely to get the kind of offers from other teams that will put us in serious danger of losing him. If he goes elsewhere, I'd be shocked if it's because they're offering significantly more than us.

[closg00]

Haywood deserves to at-least be on the lower part of this list, but he is primarily a defensive Center with a limited offensive game, that knocks him down.

Next-years lowered cap will keep Haywoods well-earned raise at a reasonable level. However Ernie has to factor-in the possible re-signing of our rentals while looking ahead and making sure we can keep McGee. There is a reasonable chance that we let BH walk if Blatche & McGee step-up this year.

[montestewart]

No disrespect to fantasy players, as I know a number of them who are close watchers of the game itself, but some of them isolate the game to those stats relevant to their particular fantasy league system. That "Fantasy Players Network" is labeled across the top of the page makes me think this list might be skewed along those lines. Some GMs will likely look beyond fantasy numbers.

It's also possible that Haywood missing an entire season came into play in this, so a quick start by him might change a lot of views.

When healthy, Haywood should be on this list. Somewhere between 10-15? Perkins ought to be a little higher in my estimation also.

[FreeBalling]

I'd put Haywood in the top 12, we all expect Haywood to be one of the key reasons for success this year. I've been saying this is going to be an All Star year for the Beast. I only hope we can keep him after this year.

[Dat2U]

Andrea Bargnani at 10th might be the craziest thing I've read all summer. Does the guy do anything especially well besides shoot threes? And how often does he even play at center?

But that aside, I agree with the basic point that Haywood is pretty unlikely to get the kind of offers from other teams that will put us in serious danger of losing him. If he goes elsewhere, I'd be shocked if it's because they're offering significantly more than us.

Yeah, Bargnani at 10 is just laughable. He can shoot 3s and block shots and that's it. He can't defend PFs or Cs and he can't rebound. Personally, I think Bosh is more of a C than Bargs.

Here's my list of the top 20. I'll leave Yao out as well.

1. ORL Dwight Howard
2. SAS Tim Duncan
3. LAL Pau Gasol
4. TOR Chris Bosh
5. PHX Amar'e Stoudemire
6. MIN Al Jefferson
7. GSW Andris Biedrins
8. CLE Shaquille O'Neal
9. DEN Nene
10. NOH Emeka Okafor
11. NJN Brook Lopez
12. LAL Andrew Bynum
13. WAS Brendan Haywood
14. UTA Mehmet Okur
15. POR Greg Oden
16. LAC Marcus Camby
17. BOS Kendrick Perkins
18. ATL Al Horford
19. MIL Andrew Bogut
20. CHA Tyson Chandler

Next Five

DET Rasheed Wallace
CLE Zyndrunas Ilgauskas
POR Joel Przybilla
DAL Erick Dampier
CHI Brad Miller

Five up & comers

CHI Joakim Noah
MEM Marc Gasol
WAS Javale McGee
IND Roy Hibbert
SAC Spencer Hawes

[LyricalRico]

^ See, I don't consider Bosh or Amare to be centers. Or Sheed for that matter. They play a lot of minutes there but it seems weird to put them on a list like this. If you took them off, I'd roll everybody else up and put Z and the other Gasol as 19 & 20.

[Kanyewest]

^^ Amare will be a center next year with Shaq gone though.

[miller31time]

I don't take PT at a certain position reason for calling someone a center (or forward or guard). I base it on whether they play LIKE the position they're recognized for.

Amare doesn't play like a center. Bosh doesn't play like a center. Bargnani and Gasol don't play like centers. They're all forwards in my book.

[LyricalRico]

^^ Amare will be a center next year with Shaq gone though.

Yeah, I just think there's a difference between "playing" center and "being" a center. I dunno.

[Kanyewest]

I don't take PT at a certain position reason for calling someone a center (or forward or guard). I base it on whether they play LIKE the position they're recognized for.

Amare doesn't play like a center. Bosh doesn't play like a center. Bargnani and Gasol don't play like centers. They're all forwards in my book.

These arguments sound similar to why GIlbert Arenas isn't a point guard because he doesn't play like a point guard. Just because these guys you mentioned above have jumpers doesn't mean that they aren't centers and prohibit them from playing center.

I don't think it should go against guys like Amare, Gasol, and Duncan because they are versatile and can play multiple positions. More teams than not would rather have these guys start at center than someone like Brendan Haywood.

[montestewart]

I don't think it should go against guys like Amare, Gasol, and Duncan because they are versatile and can play multiple positions. More teams than not would rather have these guys start at center than someone like Brendan Haywood.

Agreed on that, especially if the team needed a scoring center more than it needed a PF. Better to have PFs like Bosh or Amare at center than Shawn Bradley or Manute Bol (just grabbing names out of the air). Since the focus is on Haywood here, I'd add that he brings some things that the others (except Duncan in some ways) do not, and this is a team that doesn't necessarily need more scorers. I'd much rather see Bosh or the others playing next to and off of Haywood, strengthening the best parts of their game and maybe covering for some of their weaknesses.

[miller31time]

These arguments sound similar to why GIlbert Arenas isn't a point guard because he doesn't play like a point guard. Just because these guys you mentioned above have jumpers doesn't mean that they aren't centers and prohibit them from playing center.

Gilbert is a combo guard. That's because he doesn't play like a true point guard or a true shooting guard. I don't get the argument.

[doclinkin]

Here's my list of the top 20. I'll leave Yao out as well.

1. ORL Dwight Howard
2. SAS Tim Duncan
3. LAL Pau Gasol
4. TOR Chris Bosh
5. PHX Amar'e Stoudemire
6. MIN Al Jefferson
7. GSW Andris Biedrins
8. CLE Shaquille O'Neal
9. DEN Nene
10. NOH Emeka Okafor
11. NJN Brook Lopez
12. LAL Andrew Bynum
13. WAS Brendan Haywood
14. UTA Mehmet Okur
15. POR Greg Oden
16. LAC Marcus Camby
17. BOS Kendrick Perkins
18. ATL Al Horford
19. MIL Andrew Bogut
20. CHA Tyson Chandler

Next Five

DET Rasheed Wallace
CLE Zyndrunas Ilgauskas
POR Joel Przybilla
DAL Erick Dampier
CHI Brad Miller

Five up & comers

CHI Joakim Noah
MEM Marc Gasol
WAS Javale McGee
IND Roy Hibbert
SAC Spencer Hawes

A list like this reminds me that we're in an era of really solid Big Man talent. There were many long years when only a few teams had a quality true center, but now a swarm of bigs are on the floor, and just about every team has one. There are relatively few archetypal Big White Stiffs holding down a bench or getting in the game just because they are large. Pretty interesting to see. What's odd to me is that it seems like there are fewer high-quality 2-guards though. Used to be that was the roster slot that was easiest to fill.

[montestewart]

These arguments sound similar to why GIlbert Arenas isn't a point guard because he doesn't play like a point guard. Just because these guys you mentioned above have jumpers doesn't mean that they aren't centers and prohibit them from playing center.

Gilbert is a combo guard. That's because he doesn't play like a true point guard or a true shooting guard. I don't get the argument.

This conversation isn't quite connecting, but is still very interesting to me. Gilbert's a combo guard, but only occasionally is he not playing PG. Would the Wizards be better with a more typical point guard and Arenas at SG? It surely would depend on which PG and other factors. With a combo guard, how much have they given up of a pure PG or a pure SG to become a combo, and is the combination better? Again, it would be situational. Is there a comparable analysis due to players that can and do play both PF and C? What about for players players with a combination of skills some of which may be appropriate to one or the other or both positions, but only play PF or C?

Off the top of my head, outside of the current crop discussed, particularly Duncan, I recall Unseld and Walton playing more PF some of the time, and doing it well, and I also think of McHale and McDyess, both of who spent portions of their careers backing up both PF and C. When Dwight Howard and Chris bosh came into the league, they seemed more similar then they do now, but they've clarified quite different skills.

As a pure center, I rate Haywood higher than the original list, particularly for his defense, but if you have someone that's primarily a PF but can put in significant quality minutes at C (Duncan, Gasol in last year's playoffs), that merits some sort of consideration. I haven't included Bosh in this, because he and some others generally play like big non-centers, but maybe there should be more recognition and definition of combo big men, as there is with combo guards.

[hands11]

How Haywood plays this year is going to tell the tale of who goes after him with $$$. I hope we keep him because I don't think McGee is going to be really ready for the full time center role for at least another two or three years.

Given all those names, many are to on the down slide or still to young.

Haywood is in him prime. He has taken care of his body also. He could be good for another 4-6+ years. He is vet in him prime. Good personality, maturity, and toughness..

And most important is that he can defend every big in the league. That's more important them being a big time scoring center. Only player he had trouble with was Shaq and now Shaq doesn't have to motor he used to have.

Haywood is exactly what we need in the post. I think he is going to have a great year.

[TheSecretWeapon]

These kinds of rankings are pretty meaningless. What matters is a player's effect on the game and whether or not he makes his team better. Haywood makes the Wizards a lot better. By the conventional "evaluation" "tools" typically used to generate a list like this one, Haywood is deficient. He doesn't rebound a lot. Doesn't score a lot. Isn't going to lead the league in blocks or dunks or intimidating glares. He's going to look goofy and awkward. He's going to get punked sometimes. But he's also going to make the other team miss more shots, he'll force a few turnovers, and the team will rebound a bit better while he's out there. And he'll get more than his share off the offensive glass, and he'll set some sneaky good screens, and the Wizards will be better when he plays. And schmucks like Mejia will wonder how that's possible when they have a stiff like Haywood in the middle.

[montestewart]

^
Well stated. For a number of years, Haywood and Thomas shared the position and maybe appeared statistically similar from a fantasy stat perspective, but other statistics bore out the positive effect of having Haywood on the floor. Haywood appeared to develop significantly in the year prior to his injury (particularly the improved FT%), and I have no reason to believe that he won't continue to better his game where he can.

[verbal8]

The top 9 are significantly better than Haywood. I think Haywood should be at least 14th or 15th on the list. Bogut may be more skilled, but I don't see him as being more effective than Haywood or having a ton of upside at this point. You could argue the potential that Oden has displayed puts him ahead of Haywood, but he has major foul and injury issues(although Haywood foul trouble earlier in his career).