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Washington Wizards Board Combat Sports Thread

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Washington Wizards Board Combat Sports Thread 

Post#1 » by Ed Wood » Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:22 am

What is this?

The Wizards have had a less than smooth start to the 09-10 season. Usually I’d be using the opportunity to take advantage of you catastrophizing ninnies and laying down a mean draft thread for some serious Ed Davis discussion, and I’m gonna’, but college hoops is still a little ways away whereas this past Sunday saw arguably the first quality mixed martial arts fight card in the history of broadcast television. So I am instead making an attempt at introducing the oldest newest sport to hit the big time, mixed martial arts.

This thread is here for the purpose of discussing MMA and other combat sports. There is, and I am aware of it thank you, a very small little forum for the purpose of discussing this topic. I post there, I have nothing bad to say about it, but this is the Wizards forum, and I feel that it is only natural that I want to also discuss it here. And from there we’re back to the thread. I’ll try to put up an occasional feature on a particular aspect of combat sports or a particular competitor to satisfy my own perverse needs but it’d be nice to get some general discussion going as well. If I ever manage to convince anyone to follow the sport here be the gameday thread, and if anyone has any questions regarding combat sports I’ll make **** up and you can read it here.

So, combat sports are, as you may have heard, actually incredibly old. While the current MMA kick in the US is about two decades old now, Greeks were punching each other thousands of years ago. I won’t try to comprehensively cover the history of wrasslin’ and chokin’ stuff but some people seem to think that history lends respectability and legitimacy to the sport, so there you are.

The first UFC (stands for Ultimate Fighting Championship) event took place in 1993 in Denver. Vale Tudo events, bareknuckle open rules fights, had taken place in Brazil forever, but the first UFC was one of the first high profile mixed martial arts events in the United States. These early events lacked some of the basic rules (no groin shots) that were created in response to early criticism of the sport and the Gracie family used these early events effectively as advertisements for Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, as Royce Gracie repeatedly defeated opponents with no grappling ability whatsoever.

In the sixteen years since Mixed Martial Arts has evolved considerably and grown precipitously. Competitors now train specifically for MMA competition and are expected to be competent in all of the areas of skill that MMA encompasses, including striking, wrestling, and submission grappling. MMA has also begun to break out into the mainstream. UFC events now regularly compete with high profile boxing cards and professional wrestling promotions for the pay-per-view title and the Strikeforce MMA promotion has an ongoing agreement with CBS to televise its premier events. MMA also flourishes in Japan, where Pride, once a strong competitor of the UFC, has given way to DREAM, another successful promotion. Countless smaller promotions both in and out of the US provide opportunities for less well-established competitors.

This is not necessarily a thread solely for MMA discussion, however, it’s open season on all combat sports. Boxing, kickboxing, submission grappling (not) professional wrestling, this here’s a thread for all of it. Personally I know shamefully little about boxing and don’t keep up with the sport very well, so I can’t pretend I’ll be too helpful if it comes up, but I’m game for anything.

A Glossary of Terms

Promotions

UFC- The ultimate fighting championship. The largest American MMA promotion, run by the Zuffa group out of Las Vegas. The UFC has worked very hard to become THE American MMA promotion, to the point where MMA and UFC are synonymous to some in the same way that a Kleenex is a tissue. The UFC is probably the most talent-rich promotion in the world and puts together the highest profile cards as a result. On the other hand UFC promotional material is bad and until recently everybody had to pick between Limp Bizkit and Rage Against the Machine for entrance music (not really) so it’s not all roses as an organization.

WEC- World extreme cagefighting is basically the UFC’s little brother. The WEC focuses on the smaller weight classes (lightweight on down) that the UFC traditionally hasn’t incorporated, though both promotions currently have a lightweight division, with the UFC stocking most of the upper echelon fighters. The WEC does televise its shows for free on versus, however, and the smaller weight classes often provide exciting fights and better conditioned fighters.

Dream- The largest Japanese MMA promotion currently. Dream does stock a considerable amount of talent, particularly at certain weight classes (light weight) but overall is likely a tier below the UFC overall. It compensates with great fight promotion, great fighter introductions, and by occasionally working fights so that popular fighters come out on top.

Pride- The old Japanese promotion, bought out by Zuffa and the UFC in 2005. Pride featured a lot of really talented fighters and the same focus on entertainment that draws some fans to Dream, and a far more frequent and well-substantiated penchant for questionable judging and biased officiating. Pride never die.

Strikeforce- A smaller American promotion that mostly sticks to smaller scale shows and occasionally cooperates with other organizations like M-1 to put together bigger promotions. Strikeforce has had a lot of trouble keeping its champions in the fold and defending their belts with regularity, but is otherwise well run.

K-1- The Japanese kickboxing promotion. Kickboxing is basically boxing with the addition of kicks and the occasional knee. Knees were actually more freely permitted prior to the tooling of Japanese favorite Masato by muay thai veteran Buakaw Por Pramuk through the use of the thai clinch and repeated knee strikes. K-1 fights are frequently entertaining because of the activity level and quality of striking, though K-1 fighters are usually unsuccessful when crossing over into MMA.

ADCC- The Abu Dhabi Combat Club hosts yearly the biggest and most prestigious no-gi submission grappling tournament in the world. Every year most of the biggest names in grappling compete for what has become synonymous with the title of the top grappler in the world, the open competition championship.

Personalities

Dana White- President and face of the UFC, Dana is both a very good businessman and savvy enough to stick to character as the face of American MMA. Dana is known for cursing as much as he possibly can whenever he’s on television and for wanting to know very badly whether anyone and everyone wants to be a fighter. I assume he also has terrible taste in music based on the stuff that the UFC uses promotionally.

Joe Rogan- The voice, I guess, of American MMA. Joe formerly hosted Fear Factor and so is something of a name even outside of his role as the color analyst for UFC shows. Joe is probably the best of a bad bunch of MMA commentators, he generally knows what’s going on, especially on the ground, but is also apt to allow his personal preferences to color his commentary, loves the twister.

Bill Goldberg- The other voice of American MMA, the play-by-play partner of Rogan. Goldberg basically has no idea what’s going on, but he’s not too bad when he’s just having fun talking with Joe and watching fights. Probably a nice guy, but not a good commentator.

Bas Ruten- Was a pretty good striker way back when before you were allowed to use gloves in MMA. Likes to pretend that he taught himself to be a really good grappler. Always gregarious and larger than life, very good in front of the mic when he has the opportunity, also the source of an infinite number of sometimes helpful and always entertaining instructional videos.

Royce Gracie- The old man of the sport and winner of the first UFC tournament. Royce was the first great champion of the sport, remaining undefeated save for an injury-related forfeit for seven years before loosing to another legend of the sport, Kazushi Sakuraba, in 2000. The success of Royce led to the popularization of Jiu Jitsu as one of the fundamental aspects of a mixed martial arts skillset.

Links
Sherdog- A general MMA-related news site that handles coverage for ESPN. Read an article and I'm sure you'll see why. A quick visit of the forums is a similarly instructive experience.
Cagepotato- If you ever find yourself tired of reading Sherdog articles you're probably tired of life, but check cagepotato just to be sure.
Bloodyelbow- OK, Sherdog is bad. I am sorry. Here is a nice history of MMA as apology.
MMA Core- A site that provides all kinds of MMA resources. Explore.
The single most important thing about MMA.
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Re: Washington Wizards Board Combat Sports Thread 

Post#2 » by Ed Wood » Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:28 am

In honor of his capture of his victory over Jason Miller on CBS this Saturday my first fighter bio is my main man:

Jake “Jake Shields” Shields Aka the Horseface Killah
Weight class: Welter/middleweight
Fight Style: American Jiu Jitsu

Image

Jake Shields, now middleweight champion for the Strikeforce promotion, is one of the better American-born grapplers competing in MMA today. Shields is known for his wrestling ability and for controlling opponents on the ground. He is considered a cautious fighter, and has a very measured, purposeful fighting style, eschewing striking as much as possible in favor of applying his grappling skill as quickly as possible, and maintaining a dominant position for the duration of the fight. As a result Shields has sometimes been labeled a boring fighter, and because he isn’t the larger than life personality that many MMA fighters are, a boring person. These things are all true, and he’s wracking up some serious bad karma for advertising his particular combination of Jiu Jitsu and strong freestyle wrestling skills as “American Jiu Jitsu.” On the other hand he’s one of the few fighters in MMA who consistently implements a well thought out game plan that maximizes his chances of victory, and cautious as he is on the ground nobody wants to see what Jake Shields would look like standing and banging (a horse).

Regardless of how entertaining you find him, Jake is a legitimately excellent grappler. In 2005 Jake placed third in his weight class at the Abu Dhabi grappling championships, loosing only to Pablo Papovitch, a grappling powerhouse in his own right. Shields has also held his own against other noteworthy grappling specialists within MMA, with wins over Yushin Okami, Hayato Sakuri and Jason Miller, though all three wins came by decision. Shields has enjoyed a recent run of success mostly overwhelming striking specialists with his ground skills, and is generally considered a top five fighter in the welterweight division worldwide. The most obvious test still awaiting Shields is a matchup with another grappler of comparable ability because Shields depends so completely upon his grappling, though fighters that fit the bill are few and far between. I’ll generally try to recommend a good fight to see for everyone I cover, but once you’ve seen one Shields fight you’ve seen them all, and they’re all boring. Boring like Jake Shields.
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Re: Washington Wizards Board Combat Sports Thread 

Post#3 » by JWizmentality » Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:29 am

ooooooh yeah baby!!!! K-1 biznitches!!

By the way, you guys have got to pick up Ong-Bak 2.

OFF


DA



CHAIN!!! :wordyo:
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Re: Washington Wizards Board Combat Sports Thread 

Post#4 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Tue Nov 10, 2009 5:19 am

Ed Wood, on this past Saturday, I attended an MMA event sponsored by X-1 in Hawaii. Saw about 8 fights. Good fights, every one of them.

The main event ended, however, after the opening exchange in which the 145 pounder who was a good striker, knocked a guy down but in his exuberance to ground and pound got caught in a triangle choke. What was amazing to me is that he refused to tap and held on for about a minute and a half in what seemed like an impossible position. He went to sleep. I don't know what took it so long.

Chris Leben was there signing UFC stuff.

Lots of kids there. Had I known, I would have brought my 9-yr old.

I really enjoyed the promotion. Just wish I came along about 25 years later. I'd love to roll with the young guys but at present, I'm not down for more injuries on top of the old ones and I"ve got too much weight to cut. No need taking a stroke, heart attack, or just getting my ass kicked trying to be too young for my own good. (But if I can lose the weight and get in some semblance of real shape, I'm game.)

Good thread, Ed.
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Re: Washington Wizards Board Combat Sports Thread 

Post#5 » by truwizfan4evr » Tue Nov 10, 2009 7:40 am

ahh too much too read.
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Re: Washington Wizards Board Combat Sports Thread 

Post#6 » by Zerocious » Tue Nov 10, 2009 2:01 pm

truwizfan4evr wrote:ahh too much too read.


not enough to read!!

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Re: Washington Wizards Board Combat Sports Thread 

Post#7 » by Rafael122 » Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:36 pm

UFC is coming to Fairfax, VA in January. January 11 is the tentative date. I'm interested in going to this show. Nick Diaz is scheduled to fight, as is Gray Maynard.
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Re: Washington Wizards Board Combat Sports Thread 

Post#8 » by Zerocious » Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:27 pm

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Re: Washington Wizards Board Combat Sports Thread 

Post#9 » by Zerocious » Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:40 pm

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Re: Washington Wizards Board Combat Sports Thread 

Post#10 » by doclinkin » Wed Nov 11, 2009 6:24 am

Howz 'bout links to the best fights ever. I'm nothing like a real fan of the modern gladiator games, but I'll peek in late night and watch vids to wind down, oddly enough. Various asian vid-hosting sites have full fights from deep into the history of the the leagues.

Edwood's link to the Kevin Randleman mockery had me tracking down some of his fights to see if I could get the joke. Dude used to be mad fast and dangerous, not sure what the story was with the clip shown. Did he used to be on the roids and now not?

Similarly I spend a good few hours watching old Bas Rutten fights from back in Pride (I think) in Japan. Yeah, the man had style, liked his slap-down knock outs, I guess the rules didn't allow for closed fist or something?

Ditto Fedor. He's had some pretty radical fights vs some significantly ugly opponents, overmatching him in size and ferocity. But his skill and unrattled aspect win out.

I saw the first three UFCs back when they came out on video long years ago. That was basically backyard pitbull fighting and I don't mean that in a good way. Poor dumb animals with no idea what they were doing, getting torn apart by lethal creatures. I appreciate how far the spectacle has come evolving into a sport. Weight classes was the first key alteration. Necessary.

So, links to any classic fights that any fan of the sport ought to have seen?
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Re: Washington Wizards Board Combat Sports Thread 

Post#11 » by Zerocious » Wed Nov 11, 2009 9:00 pm

Image
video is hard to find of when it got out of control but here is round one of penn vs stevenson UFC 80

this one messed up too, blood-muddfuggin-dy! UFC 61
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Re: Washington Wizards Board Combat Sports Thread 

Post#12 » by Ed Wood » Thu Nov 12, 2009 6:44 am

I was actually planning to intersperse coverage of some of the sports' greatest fights with fighter bios and whatever anyway, so I'll just jump some of those to the front of the line if that's where interest lies.

The Randleman and Coleman grappling video isn't really about the steroids both have taken over the course of their careers. It always get's a laugh out of me for a combination of a bunch of reasons, it's about two really big guys very gingerly rolling and about watching Mark Coleman, one of the greatest wrestlers in the history of MMA, very slowly set up an arm bar while Randleman, a great wrestler in his own right, just lays there and paws at him. Then there's the glacial transition from side control into half guard by Coleman, the knee-on-stomach for about an instant. Plus hammerhouse, the gym that both men train at, is notorious for being a haven for wrestlers who are terrible at everything else involved in MMA, particularly the submission component of grappling (again the armbar). Plus "Ah, dangit!"

Alright, so, back to those great fights. The truth is that there have been a lot of great fights in the history of MMA, and what is a great fight to one fan may not be to another. I'll try to get a pretty good cross-section of different kinds of fights but keep in mind as I do this that I'm a jiu jitsu man at heart and so a healthy fraction of these are going to involve a lot of technical grappling.

Alright, let's get started. First up, here are a couple of fights featuring the man, the myth, the legend, Kazushi Sakuraba. Saku first gained notoriety, particularly to American fans, by defeating first Royler, and then later Royce and Renzo Gracie. Royce was, at the time, effectively undefeated in Mixed Martial Arts competition, (he had previously been forced to withdraw from a fight due to an injury) and his seemingly magical submission ability (keep in mind people hadn't seen a lot of jiu jitsu before Royce) gave him an air of invincibility. And then he ran into Sakuraba, a Japanese grappling master and professional wrestler who's never lost his dramatic flair. It took over an hour to do it, but he beat Royce he did. This may have shocked a lot of American fans unfamiliar with Sakuraba, but his win over Carlos Newton two years before is both more entertaining to watch and really just as impressive as his win over Royce.

It's hard to overstate just how much the heroes of Japanese MMA are appreciated. Sakuraba later went on to loose dramatically and decisively to another legend of the sport, Wanderlei Silva not once but twice, and is still fighting today despite advancing age and declining skill. I have no doubt that a third matchup with Silva would sell out the Saitama Arena instantly, even if it might result in Sakuraba dying in the ring.

Speaking of utterly dominating performances, while I am not a fan of pound-for-pound lists, I do not think there is another figher in MMA today who is as consistently dominant as Anderson Silva. The two best examples of his incredible ability to make very talented fighters look completely outclassed are his two title fights against Rich "Ace" Franklin. Franklin is not an incredible fighter, but he is well rounded, and technically sound, and Anderson looked like he was fighting a child. Rich then built himself back up into a contender for Silva's middleweight title, and the rematch for Cincinnati, Franklin's home town. Silva is hardly a fan favorite in most fights, but this was the essence of hostile territory. It didn't matter. More recently Silva moved up a weight class to take another dangerous fight against Forrest Griffin and made people wonder if Forrest had thrown the fight. But in the interest of fairness, Silva has lost, but it is a testament to his talent that it took the fight of Ryo Chonan's life including one of the greatest finishes in MMA history to beat him (Yushin Okami managed to get kicked in the face at the wrong time, which works too).

I still have plenty more but I think that's enough to get us started.
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Re: Washington Wizards Board Combat Sports Thread 

Post#13 » by Hoopalotta » Thu Nov 12, 2009 7:13 am

Zerocious wrote:Image


I suppose my reaction was inevitable once I started drinking tea from porcelain cups, but that picture pretty well encapsulates why this just ain't my bag baby. Why don't we just slap on some togas, give the guy a net and a trident, set him against a pair of cougars and be done with it?

Yeesh, I wonder what the ratings would be for amputations in the Shiloh hospital tent?

As a sage philosopher once said, "Do not want".
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Re: Washington Wizards Board Combat Sports Thread 

Post#14 » by Zerocious » Thu Nov 12, 2009 1:27 pm

Hoopalotta wrote:
Zerocious wrote:Image


I suppose my reaction was inevitable once I started drinking tea from porcelain cups, but that picture pretty well encapsulates why this just ain't my bag baby. Why don't we just slap on some togas, give the guy a net and a trident, set him against a pair of cougars and be done with it?

Yeesh, I wonder what the ratings would be for amputations in the Shiloh hospital tent?

As a sage philosopher once said, "Do not want".


i appologize hoopa, but please do not throw the baby out with the bathwater.
i was a little overzealous to bring up some of the gore stuff. these are few and faaar in between. I will post some real beautiful executed fights, without the blood and gore. I do not want to give you the wrong impression of this sport. it is not about brutality and brutal destruction.

the fighting sport is one of potential damage, so one needs to train well, and protect them selves when they are in the ring. It is not all about offense, defense has it's part. there are some beautiful examples of well thought out strategies and executions. please allow me to redeem myself.... :oops:
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Re: Washington Wizards Board Combat Sports Thread 

Post#15 » by ZonkertheBrainless » Thu Nov 12, 2009 1:59 pm

Yeah, I actually find MMA much more about finesse than boxing, which is a brutal, disgusting sport that seems to be infected with mobsters and crackheads. I like how much more skill is required in MMA, you have to be able to strike, you have to at least be able to defend against the takedown, you have to know all the holds. It's fun to watch, the blood and gore happens when someone gets cut on the head and bleeds a lot, but otherwise he's ok. They have a doctor look at you during timeouts and between rounds and if there's any chance you can get an eye injury or whatever they'll stop the fight.

The thing I hated about kickboxing is it's basically boxing where it's mandatory to throw ten kicks a round, you never get the feeling that the kickboxer has any hope of accomplishing anything with a kick. But in MMA I've seen at least three knockouts by a kick to the head because you have to guard against the takedown, you can't lean back the way they can in kickboxing so a kick to the head is devastating when executed properly. What's really awesome is it's usually the first kick of the match, you can tell the guy had the whole thing planned out way in advance, had practiced it, and executed it beautifully. Awesome. Kro Kop or whatever his name is got taken out that way.
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Re: Washington Wizards Board Combat Sports Thread 

Post#16 » by Hoopalotta » Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:04 am

Hey, class response Zerocious and you have nothing to apologize to me for. A lot of guys would have told me and my pimply prim tailpipe to take a hike; I respect that the fight games mean a lot to you and that has no bearing on your propensity for heads on sticks.

I mean, Hasheem Thabeet got his Jaw broken the other day playing basketball. I'm sure a lot of fights end with injuries less severe than that taking place. I am uncomfortable with the idea that guys are killing themselves while we're being entertained, though I can't speak to the long term effects of UFC type fighting. I mean it all comes down to personal choices and it would be really inappropriate for me to come in here start judging people. In my heart of heart though, I am definitely concerned with kids growing up with this as a huge aspect of popular culture. That of course ties to a lot of other media points as well though.

Violence is a part of human nature. When a fight breaks out on the street, everyone turns their head that way. My major in school was History and I always thought we could have just preceded the course titles with "Bad Things That Happened In/During..". As in "HIST401: Bad Things That Happened In Colonial America" or "HIST306: Bad Things That Happened During the Medieval Ages"

It almost always seemed to go that way.

Some would argue that violence has spurred invention on further than any other human endeavor too. And it's hard to argue against that as we got canned food from out of the Napoleonic Wars. Were it not for the millions of well dressed dead, we would likely still be years away from Chef Boyardee and Spam...

Image

And it was not until America was neck deep in a grimy war in South East Asia that our civilization had faced the challenges required to achieve the manufacturing transcendence that allowed us to usher in the golden age of the Subcompact car with the 1970 AMC Gremlin

Image

Admittedly, that later point might be something of a coincidence and/or not illustrate my point very well. I suppose right here is where I should just start again with a coherent thesis statement. Unfortunately though, that would require a lot of work.

So I'll just end to say that I understand that there is plenty of skill and finesse involved in the fight game, lots of nuances for fans to fixate on and I fully respect you and your right to be so interested. But somebody had to confound the universal enthusiasm found here with a counter point, and as there was nobody more eloquent on hand, we were stuck with this. :roll:

Carry on then....
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Re: Washington Wizards Board Combat Sports Thread 

Post#17 » by doclinkin » Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:14 am

Well ultimately sports are a substitute for war anyway. Most of us have those primal baboon troop drives to at least make abortive charges beating our breastbone roaring in full-throated dominance displays tossing sticks into the air or whatnot in defense of our guys in the white jerseys.

Okay there is an aspect of bread and circuses, consider that the rise of combat sports parallels the decline of the economy and the widening gap between the rich and poor. If we can keep them visigoths chasing hard targets far away and entertain the disillusioned and economically frustrated masses distracted by surrogate violence then perhaps we forestall a bloody failed coup or two for a decade more. Let it serve as a proxy riot.

I'm not immune to unease in this respect as well, watching a thoroughgoing MMA beatdown doesn't give me the same catharsis as a Wizards win. But no doubt it's fascinating-- while inducing those cortisol pumps to begin pumping stress hormones etc. I get tense while analyzing how to survive or avoid or apply moves I've seen if worst case scenario knock wood etc. On the flip side, it spurs me to do a few extra situps every now and again.

I've had to wrassle a little bit in real life -- I guess most of us have, not something you seek out, but depending on where and how you grew up, shxt tends to happen. It's not a bad thing to have a reminder that civilization is based on a few flimsy conceits we all agree to. Complacency is a pisspoor security blanket, fact is most times the cops don't show up in time, justice is not only blind but suffering from dementia, and you can't even really count on civil vengeance since no matter what computer graphics you've seen on TV there ain't no David Caruso showing up to gather forensic evidence and drop corny bon mots-- I doubt DC cops solve even a good 30% of their cases overall. Civilization is a loosely knit sweater, comforting perhaps, but maybe less durable than you'd hope for. Best not to dwell on the holes perhaps.

But I'm not sure the rise of gladiator games unravels that weave, or whether it simply shows the wear and tear that already exists. But I dunno, given that people are going to fight anyway, maybe it makes sense to give them a venue in which to do it. Yeah okay maybe it's safer to pretty it up a little, stick them in plastic armor and call it football, or tug the shorts up high put pillows on your fists and follow the Marquess of Queensbury rules, or even simply stage and script the roided up faux rumble with your WWE spectacles to entertain all the suburban rednecks who have nowhere remote enough to drive fast cars and thus can't get excited for NASCAR.

But maybe it's just more honest to stick two men in a cage and shake 'em up like bugs in a jar, like the little sociopath phase most/many y-chomosome kids go through early on in life. No point prettying it up too fine. Though right, I'd much rather solve international dramas with a futbol match than with a hot war with live ammo -- even if that meant the Brasilians ran the world. Hell, there'd be a lot more partying and naked babes with great assets if that were the case... as well as the sophisticated manhugging wrassling I guess. Who said Brasil is the country of the future and always will be?

Anyway, consider this, if these highly skilled brawlers weren't on display on your TV, I dunno, they'd be in the parking lot at the supermarket pissed off that you took their parking space. At least for a few hours at a time they're busy training or getting their face kicked, or in triage afterwards, and not, you know, chasing you a few turns around your Yugo waiting for your adrenaline surge to wear off and your lack of stamina to catch up to you. Seen Zombieland yet? Rule #1: Cardio...

I dunno, seems to me the antidote for this sense of increased anxiety and raised stakes lies in another economic surge. And then we'd see a die off in interest, same way boxing became moribund into/after the 80's. Maybe it's possible we see another financial highwatermark with some next-order Energy innovation; advances in biomedical technology; a upswelling of community agriculture or a new idiom and artform (as hiphop revived a moribund music industry for a few years before it lobotomized itself racing to find the bottom, literally and figuratively, trying to achieve a new lowest common denominator of fear and sex as opposed to any attempt at the sublime).

But failing that, shxt, seems to me as usual old folks like me suggest we're all going to he11 on a longboard, might as well try to enjoy the downhill ride. Unless you got a better plan. I'm always keeping my ears open for songs of hope. Dunno. Maybe it's better to pull the covers over your head and hope it goes away. I still find it compelling, fascinating, provoking of complex emotions as well as those more base and elemental. Difference is maybe in some eras folks would feel more ashamed for these instincts. Not sure shame is so common nowadays in an age where you don't even have to sneak out to the seven-eleven with your brothers ID and ginger up a gruff voice to see some naked chicks. Just a mouse click away.
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Re: Washington Wizards Board Combat Sports Thread 

Post#18 » by daSwami » Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:55 pm

no love for the WWF?
More like ROY Hachimura, am i rite?
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Hoopalotta
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Re: Washington Wizards Board Combat Sports Thread 

Post#19 » by Hoopalotta » Mon Nov 16, 2009 1:53 pm

Status Report: Doc, you deserve a good reply, but it might well take a little bit of time to get it together. I am a'kin to your way of thinking as far as the precariousness of civilization being a very thin divide between us and barbarism. And certainly my distinction threshold is quite arbitrary.

I would also point out that I have been fascinated by Ancient warfare since I was a wee tike and have spent countless hours recounting various instances of ancient Mediterranean peoples stabbing one another in the gut with steel pokers, so it's not like my horse is so high or anything.

Suffice to say I'll come up with something better reply-wise though, but I don't got a right n' proper essay in me just now......
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ZonkertheBrainless
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Re: Washington Wizards Board Combat Sports Thread 

Post#20 » by ZonkertheBrainless » Mon Nov 16, 2009 4:28 pm

You guys are nuts. Watching guys beat the brains out of each other is fun. Jesus Christ.
Help us, Obi-wan Leonsis. You're our only hope.

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