Poll: Should Ernie Grunfeld Lead the Rebuild?

[LyricalRico]

Sorta like how we used Brendan Haywood to dump DeBrick for $3.1 million next year instead of taking Portland's offer of a 1st round & pick & Dante Cunningham for him.

Is this reliable information or just heresay?

More like heresy. Nobody was giving up a first for Haywood, especially not Portland that was able to get a higher profile player in Camby for far less. It was a fantasy then and it's revisionist history now.

Re: the Dallas trade - All the talk about Leonsis wanting to go young and acquire more picks makes me think that his fingerprints were all over the Dallas trade. Why? Because it created two trade exceptions that will make BOYD deals possible. Some here would have liked to have seen Haywood stay and be re-signed, but doesn't paying a 30 year old vet go against what Ted's assumed philosophy is? You can't say that the Wizards aren't going to spend a lot of money and then in the same breath wish that we could have payed Haywood $8M per. It's a contradiction and I think Ted would have probably let Haywood walk. So rather than lose him for nothing, Ernie created a situation where we can get something.

And if we get a first (or two) with the TPEs, then it's way more than was available at the deadline. Bravo, Ernie!

[Dat2U]

Sorta like how we used Brendan Haywood to dump DeBrick for $3.1 million next year instead of taking Portland's offer of a 1st round & pick & Dante Cunningham for him.

Is this reliable information or just heresay? That would have been a nice trade...

Actually it was Jeff Pendergraph instead of Cunningham which would have been even better.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=m ... buzz021310

The Portland Trail Blazers, Houston Rockets and Miami Heat were interested in acquiring center Brendan Haywood(notes) from the Wizards, but couldn’t put together an adequate offer before the Mavericks landed him.

The Blazers offered Steve Blake(notes), rookie Jeff Pendergraph(notes) and a first-round pick for Haywood. When Washington countered by asking for swingman Rudy Fernandez(notes), the Blazers declined. Blazers owner Paul Allen is a big fan of Fernandez.

Haywood turned down a four-year, $35 million contract extension from Washington last summer, but a source said the Mavericks hope to re-sign him after the season.

We basically saved $3 mil in cap room to dump Stevenson (and take Ross in return) instead of getting Pendergrath & a 1st rounder. That's bad math IMO. This was exactly the type of deal we should have been making.

----

Hey Lyrical, here's another little nugget I found that was reported at the same time, for **** & giggles.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/wizard ... rdsinsider

One team insider told me that the Wizards would have to eventually consider breaking up the foursome of Andray Blatche, Nick Young, Dominic McGuire and JaVale McGee. And, I heard from two sources that the Wizards reached out to the Charlotte Bobcats, offering Blatche for point guard D.J. Augustin. That conversation didn't go very far, but it is interesting to see where the Wizards go from here.

Bravo Ernie my ass!

[keynote]

(ducks head in thread)

Caron Butler is 6'6 in shoes at BEST. He's one of those players who is an inch or so below his listed height.

Acc. to DraftExpress's measurement database, Caron's 6'6.5" in shoes - shorter than his "listed" height of 6'7", but only by a 1/2 inch. And, with a standing reach of 8'7.5", Caron has the same length as Evan Turner - and is only a 1/2 inch below "bigger SFs" Dom McGuire and Al Thornton. He doesn't have ideal length, but he's not a deviant, either.

Caron's issue isn't his size, it's his lack of ups (27" vert in the db) and agility (12.15 sec. in the lane drill).

(ducks back out of thread)

[closg00]

Sorta like how we used Brendan Haywood to dump DeBrick for $3.1 million next year instead of taking Portland's offer of a 1st round & pick & Dante Cunningham for him.

Is this reliable information or just heresay? That would have been a nice trade...

Actually it was Jeff Pendergraph instead of Cunningham which would have been even better.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=m ... buzz021310

The Portland Trail Blazers, Houston Rockets and Miami Heat were interested in acquiring center Brendan Haywood(notes) from the Wizards, but couldn’t put together an adequate offer before the Mavericks landed him.

The Blazers offered Steve Blake(notes), rookie Jeff Pendergraph(notes) and a first-round pick for Haywood. When Washington countered by asking for swingman Rudy Fernandez(notes), the Blazers declined. Blazers owner Paul Allen is a big fan of Fernandez.

Haywood turned down a four-year, $35 million contract extension from Washington last summer, but a source said the Mavericks hope to re-sign him after the season.

We basically saved $3 mil in cap room to dump Stevenson (and take Ross in return) instead of getting Pendergrath & a 1st rounder. That's bad math IMO. This was exactly the type of deal we should have been making.

----

Hey Lyrical, here's another little nugget I found that was reported at the same time, for **** & giggles.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/wizard ... rdsinsider

One team insider told me that the Wizards would have to eventually consider breaking up the foursome of Andray Blatche, Nick Young, Dominic McGuire and JaVale McGee. And, I heard from two sources that the Wizards reached out to the Charlotte Bobcats, offering Blatche for point guard D.J. Augustin. That conversation didn't go very far, but it is interesting to see where the Wizards go from here.

Bravo Ernie my ass!

I'm calling winner by TKO in the 6th round, Rico, Will B, and Jo-Jo are all on the matt and down for the count. *Crowd noise* Dat with both hands above his head giving props to the crowd.

[LyricalRico]

:Staggers up after a 9 count:

Sources, shmorces. Here's a question: Was it a 2010 first? Or a future first with protection? That makes a difference. Sounds like we'll never know for sure. I'll give Ernie the benefit of the doubt.

:A vicious hook from the southpaw!:

And regardless of what was or wasn't on the table at the deadline, as long as the Wizards end up with an extra first or two from the TPE then it works out the same (or even better if the first was in the future). This will all be settled on draft night. That's when the final pieces of the trade deadline deals will be revealed and we can truly judge them with all the information.

[closg00]

OMG Rico, Blatche for DJ Augustin???? We are lucky MJ's hatred of the Wizards made him dummer than Ernie Grunfeld

[LyricalRico]

OMG Rico, Blatche for DJ Augustin???? We are lucky MJ's hatred of the Wizards made him dummer than Ernie Grunfeld

I already refuted that when it was first "reported" around the deadline. No need to rehash.

[Hoopalotta]

:Staggers up after a 9 count:

Sources, shmorces. Here's a question: Was it a 2010 first? Or a future first with protection? That makes a difference. Sounds like we'll never know for sure. I'll give Ernie the benefit of the doubt.

:A vicious hook from the southpaw!:

And regardless of what was or wasn't on the table at the deadline, as long as the Wizards end up with an extra first or two from the TPE then it works out the same (or even better if the first was in the future). This will all be settled on draft night. That's when the final pieces of the trade deadline deals will be revealed and we can truly judge them with all the information.

This is actually a reasonable base argument in the context of just the 2010 season: getting rid of Stevenson is of similar fiscal value to a first from Portland, and that's assuming the Portland pick was for this year. In other words, $4 million in cap space should equal something like a mid first.

The argument against Ernie here would be backdated to the point when we resigned Stevenson as that signing was effectively a deal that would negate our ability to score that 1st.

[montestewart]

^
So it's kind of a: "Kudos maestro for jettisoning DS and his awful contract; say why the #*@% did you ever sign him to that putrid contract?"

[closg00]

Drafted: No. 15, first round
Year: 1999
Team: New York Knicks
GM: Ed Tapscott

With the 15th pick in the draft, the Knicks passed on hometown boy Ron Artest and went with 7-foot-2 center Frederic Weis from France. The Knicks' decision to go with a project big man was widely criticized by fans and experts.

Although he never worked out for teams, the Knicks said they got looks at him from watching games overseas. VP Ed Tapscott admitted to eating well in France while scouting Weis, a year later he was out of a job with the Knicks.

“Frederic Weis might turn out to be a player, but they didn't get anybody that can help them immediately at center or point guard," said Marty Burns of CNN/SI.

A year after the draft, he became known as the player Vince Carter posterized during the summer games of 2000.

Weis never did make it to the NBA. In 2008, in an obvious PR move, they traded his rights to the Houston Rockets for Patrick Ewing, Jr.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/3991 ... ry#page/11

Take a look at this guys track-record Ted, please fire his ass on day-one.

[closg00]

Q.
Do you think Ernie Grunfeld is here because Leonsis won't get the team in time to replace the front office before the draft or will he really get the chance to rebuild the team? Put me down as wanting him gone.
– June 07, 2010 12:32 PM
A.
Michael Lee writes:
I've stated before that it is not wise to overhaul your front office this late in the year because you can make so many mistakes. I used Cleveland hiring Danny Ferry three weeks before free agency in 2005 as an example. Look at that situation now. Ferry is gone and LeBron James could soon follow.

– June 07, 2010 1:20 PM

What a surprise, the Wiz beat-writer is in the tank for Ernie.

[JonathanJoseph]

For all the folks so upset about Arenas' contract, check out this comment from Caron Butler's Twitter feed today.

"Who is the best player I ever played with kobe bryant. But wade dirk and arenas aren't far away"

http://twitter.com/realtuffjuice/status/15643635553

[verbal8]

What a surprise, the Wiz beat-writer is in the tank for Ernie.

I think it is more he sees the danger in replacing the GM, just to replace him. If Pritchard becomes available, I hope Leonsis takes a long look at bringing him in.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Q.
Do you think Ernie Grunfeld is here because Leonsis won't get the team in time to replace the front office before the draft or will he really get the chance to rebuild the team? Put me down as wanting him gone.
– June 07, 2010 12:32 PM
A.
Michael Lee writes:
I've stated before that it is not wise to overhaul your front office this late in the year because you can make so many mistakes. I used Cleveland hiring Danny Ferry three weeks before free agency in 2005 as an example. Look at that situation now. Ferry is gone and LeBron James could soon follow.

– June 07, 2010 1:20 PM

What a surprise, the Wiz beat-writer is in the tank for Ernie.

And Cleveland getting Ferry just led to them advancing to the Finals within 2 years, as well as them having the league's best record the past two seasons. Even with that, Cleveland last season lost to a better Orlando team (Turkoglu version, with Cavs killer Rafer Alston at point) and this season to a better Boston team (Boston's starting 5 when all healthy still hasn't lost a series. Rondo is so much better than Mo the Cavs had no chance). Lee indicting Ferry doesn't hold water as far as I'm concerned.

Shaq and Jamison were Lebron's ideas.

[Hoopalotta]

Personally, I think disaster was commenced at the exact moment when Larry Hughes was signed to that deal with everything else being an outgrowth of that move.

My view at the time and then through a few years thereafter was that, had they been able to get Redd, a lot of things would have gone differently with those "reshuffle the stiffs" moves being unnecessary.

Of course Redd kind of digressed into a blatant chucker and got hurt, so maybe I was wrong, but I'd still consider the 2005 Cleveland offseason to have been a turning point, so I don't think it's a terrible example.

[nate33]

I agree with Hoopalotta.

That Michael Lee quote isn't a sign that he is "in the tank" for EG. Lee is right, making a hasty change in the front office at this time of year isn't all that wise.

And Ferry has been a terrible GM. Every non-rookie-contract-player on that roster with the exception of Lebron is overpaid. (Well, Varajeo and Parker may be appropriately paid, but they're not bargains). Yes, Cleveland has been a contender, but you'd really have to try hard to put together a team featuring Lebron plus $80M in other salaries that wouldn't be a title contender.

I knew when they signed Hughes that it was a bad fit.
I knew that Mo Williams was a bad fit before he was signed
I knew that Shaq was a bad ideal before it happened.
I knew that Jamison would be a bad deal (for them, that is).
I knew they overpaid Gibson.

Hell, the only time I felt that Danny was making shrewd moves was last summer when he signed Parker, Moon and Powe to cheap deals. Moon is a bit overpaid, but at least Ferry was going for the type of guys who would fit alongside Lebron.

[closg00]

What a surprise, the Wiz beat-writer is in the tank for Ernie.

I think it is more he sees the danger in replacing the GM, just to replace him. If Pritchard becomes available, I hope Leonsis takes a long look at bringing him in.

My main point is that finding ANYTHING critical of Ernie Grunfeld in the Post coverage of the Wizards is like trying to find a needle in a haystack. The Post people continue to kiss-ass to maintain their access and quotes. You would never see this type of non-critical coverage in New York, Chicago, or other major sports towns where the team was dismantled.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Personally, I think disaster was commenced at the exact moment when Larry Hughes was signed to that deal with everything else being an outgrowth of that move.

My view at the time and then through a few years thereafter was that, had they been able to get Redd, a lot of things would have gone differently with those "reshuffle the stiffs" moves being unnecessary.

Of course Redd kind of digressed into a blatant chucker and got hurt, so maybe I was wrong, but I'd still consider the 2005 Cleveland offseason to have been a turning point, so I don't think it's a terrible example.

Hughes was a bad, bad move for them. I didn't even consider that ...

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I agree with Hoopalotta.

That Michael Lee quote isn't a sign that he is "in the tank" for EG. Lee is right, making a hasty change in the front office at this time of year isn't all that wise.

And Ferry has been a terrible GM. Every non-rookie-contract-player on that roster with the exception of Lebron is overpaid. (Well, Varajeo and Parker may be appropriately paid, but they're not bargains). Yes, Cleveland has been a contender, but you'd really have to try hard to put together a team featuring Lebron plus $80M in other salaries that wouldn't be a title contender.

I knew when they signed Hughes that it was a bad fit.
I knew that Mo Williams was a bad fit before he was signed
I knew that Shaq was a bad ideal before it happened.
I knew that Jamison would be a bad deal (for them, that is).
I knew they overpaid Gibson.

Hell, the only time I felt that Danny was making shrewd moves was last summer when he signed Parker, Moon and Powe to cheap deals. Moon is a bit overpaid, but at least Ferry was going for the type of guys who would fit alongside Lebron.

Honestly, you and Hoopalotta have shown me I am wrong. Ferry's moves did really hurt them overall--due to Mo Williams being their playoffs albatross. I blame Shaq and Jamison on a GM anxious to appease Lebron in his FA year. But Williams, in the long run is killing that team.

I'm conflicted on him because he was voted an all star.

Overall, the Cavs are in bad shape now without Lebron and they can't improve signicantly with Jamison on their roster. That move was horrible for them. I know why they made it--Jamison went for 32/10 that playoffs without Caron and Gil. Still, they should have know Jamison's contract was a killer.

[Hoopalotta]

Yes, Cleveland has been a contender, but you'd really have to try hard to put together a team featuring Lebron plus $80M in other salaries that wouldn't be a title contender.

This would be an awesome exercise in hypothetical roster construction.

Eddy Curry's in there, sure. Actually, if we're doing in on a historical basis through the mid 2000's, we could probably just plug in the contracts from the Zeke Knicks.

Sounds like a good thread for the middle of the summer months.