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Weve been one of the worst teams in the league the last 2 years yet by far the biggest talk in the NBA right now is how much better Cleveland & Dallas are after acquiring our players. I think AJ is going to be unstoppable on Cleveland because he will get some post ups but mostly he will be standing at the 3pt line. You have to double Shaq & Lebron which means they will kick it out to him for either wide open shots, or the defender will be running full speed at him and he can pump and go to the hoop. Its like cake. Then you look at Wood and Dallas is going crazy over him while Caron looks like that 2nd scorer that they needed. All anyone is talking about are those moves yet we had those same guys and sucked.

Thats why I still say that if EJ were our coach then we would be a top 4 team in the East with those guys even though Flip is a 10x better overall coach than him. We had way more talent than we did under EJ yet the Offense was the must ugly like thing in the leauge and we had no chemistry at all. JVG is one of my favorite commentators and I agree with alot of things he says. Today he said that when you are on bad teams you start developing bad habits which you have to change when you come to good teams. I think guys like AJ & Caron did start developing bad habits after last year when we lost all those games. When Gil 1st went out and we kept winning, all we talked about was the great ball movement & team ball we had. Then the next year we started losing and guys like AJ tried to be the hero and think they had to get 30 every night for us to win. Thats when the ball movement stopped and there was no more team ball.

Then Flip came and the system just didnt fit with Caron and the bad habits that we acquired. Now its crazy because everyone talks about the Cavs & Mavs being way better with those moves which is true but we got rid of all those top guys for castaways and we also look 10x better. Our 3 top scorers and maybe our 5th in Wood is gone, 2 other good scorers in Z & Gooden never came, we just sent home the only other guy on our team to ever average nearly 20 in James, yet we just easily scored over 100 for the 3rd straight game and our O looks so much better, exciting, and more fluid than when we had some of the best scorers in the league. Stuff is so funny like that. Everyone says Caron, Wood, & AJ make those 2 teams instant title contenders but we were almost in last place with them? Some reports say that EG just tried to trade Blatche straight up for DJ Augustine who averages like 5ppg and now Blatche is getting 25 & 10 as a starter in only 32mpg. I

ts all insane but I actually think its about to workout well for all 3 teams and call me crazy but I have a strange feeling that everyone thought the Wiz-Cavs rivalry was dead but I think we will be seeing them next year again in the playoffs with them having AJ and us having a totally new look. I think we will battle alot in the regular season again. Its crazy. Thats another reason why I say that we shouldnt give up on Gil yet. This stuff is so crazy that you may think 2 + 2 equals 4 but it doesnt all the time in the NBA. He may have a ton of chemistry with this group and look great with Blatche and others

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/ ... -years.php

LeBron: Jamison said "I haven't had an open shot in four years."
Sun Feb 21,2010 11:37 AM ET By Matt Moore
During a pre-game interview with Michelle Tafoya on ABC before Sunday's game in Orlando, LeBron James was asked about Antawn Jamison's conspicuous debut on Friday where he went 0-12 from the floor and scored two points (two free throws in garbage time). The King's response was interesting, and painful, for Wizards' fans.

LeBron: "Funny thing, Antawn said, he hadn't had an open look in about four years."

Ouch.

You could just take it as there was more pressure on Jamison from the defense as the bes player on the floor with Arenas out. But it still can come off as a slight to Washington, dogging their play and inability to create opportunities for him.

Now, you can understand Jamison's relief at getting out of a toxic situation in Washington and on to a top contender. But Jamison was supported by the organization and fans, and there's no reason to rub it in like that since they're stuck with what is probably a lost season, despite what Josh Howard thinks.

Something tells me the rivalry may not be quite dead.

talk about crazy

Ok, your crazy.

First off, Cleveland is 0-3.

Yes, Dallas is 3-0 but you know what, we could have been 3-0 also if we just moved AJ and kept Haywood and CB to play with AB. What we are missing is a PG to play with them. I don't see where we added that while what we did is loose a center.

And while I liked the last few games, there is no way you can convince me we are better off without Haywood over adding AT, Singleton and Josh. AT and Singleton are back ups on a good team. Haywood is a top center on a good team. I can see the Josh trade for CB just to chance scenery for both or not. Both want to shoot. Josh is more athletic but more of a loose nut.

I will enjoy watching the Crabs loose and Dallas win but lets not make it out like we are better off without Haywood.

Haywood and Blatche should have been our core. You can add pieces around that real quick and be a very good team.

AJ and Gil were our problem and we still have on of those problems.

^
There it is, just like Butler in Dallas, Jamison in Cleveland blaming the Wizards for bad games on his new team, only here, he lets Lebron speak for him. "He hasn't had an open look in four years, and suddenly, he got twelve, because I'm so great that I get all my teammates open looks all the time." Jamison got tons of open looks and often, with nobody around and twenty seconds on the shot clock, he heaved a clunker.

Jamison and Butler were the main problem here, overpaid (at least in Jamison's case, and recently in Butler's too), selfishly underperforming, and never accepting responsibility. I can see they haven't changed the last one. If they don't change the other middle one, they'll be hearing about the first one. Lebron can then say, "Don't blame Jamison for being overpaid. His last team overpaid him."

Maybe now I'm hoping the Mavs and Cavs somehow get bounced in the first round.

PS: A little insecurity showing there in the jab. Only a Cleveland or Lebron fan couldn't see through that. Either he's confident in his team or he's not. Perhaps Jamison was his distant second choice, and he's not happy with how it looks so far.

montestewart wrote:^
There it is, just like Butler in Dallas, Jamison in Cleveland blaming the Wizards for bad games on his new team, only here, he lets Lebron speak for him. "He hasn't had an open look in four years, and suddenly, he got twelve, because I'm so great that I get all my teammates open looks all the time." Jamison got tons of open looks and often, with nobody around and twenty seconds on the shot clock, he heaved a clunker.

Jamison and Butler were the main problem here, overpaid (at least in Jamison's case, and recently in Butler's too), selfishly underperforming, and never accepting responsibility. I can see they haven't changed the last one. If they don't change the other middle one, they'll be hearing about the first one. Lebron can then say, "Don't blame Jamison for being overpaid. His last team overpaid him."

Maybe now I'm hoping the Mavs and Cavs somehow get bounced in the first round.

PS: A little insecurity showing there in the jab. Only a Cleveland or Lebron fan couldn't see through that. Either he's confident in his team or he's not. Perhaps Jamison was his distant second choice, and he's not happy with how it looks so far.

They need to just zip it up.....tired of all these jabs when they were the ones causing the problems.

Donkey McDonkerton wrote:http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/02/lebron-jamison-said-i-havent-had-an-open-shot-in-four-years.php

LeBron: Jamison said "I haven't had an open shot in four years."
Sun Feb 21,2010 11:37 AM ET By Matt Moore
During a pre-game interview with Michelle Tafoya on ABC before Sunday's game in Orlando, LeBron James was asked about Antawn Jamison's conspicuous debut on Friday where he went 0-12 from the floor and scored two points (two free throws in garbage time). The King's response was interesting, and painful, for Wizards' fans.

LeBron: "Funny thing, Antawn said, he hadn't had an open look in about four years."

Ouch.

You could just take it as there was more pressure on Jamison from the defense as the bes player on the floor with Arenas out. But it still can come off as a slight to Washington, dogging their play and inability to create opportunities for him.

Now, you can understand Jamison's relief at getting out of a toxic situation in Washington and on to a top contender. But Jamison was supported by the organization and fans, and there's no reason to rub it in like that since they're stuck with what is probably a lost season, despite what Josh Howard thinks.

Something tells me the rivalry may not be quite dead.

talk about crazy

LOL. Maybe if you actually passed the ball you could GET open.

yeah, all them taking jabs is so weak espically when they were the main guys doing everything. Thats why I always hated the media hyping those guys up as leaders and pros

hands11 wrote:Ok, your crazy.

First off, Cleveland is 0-3.

Yes, Dallas is 3-0 but you know what, we could have been 3-0 also if we just moved AJ and kept Haywood and CB to play with AB. What we are missing is a PG to play with them. I don't see where we added that while what we did is loose a center.

And while I liked the last few games, there is no way you can convince me we are better off without Haywood over adding AT, Singleton and Josh. AT and Singleton are back ups on a good team. Haywood is a top center on a good team. I can see the Josh trade for CB just to chance scenery for both or not. Both want to shoot. Josh is more athletic but more of a loose nut.

I will enjoy watching the Crabs loose and Dallas win but lets not make it out like we are better off without Haywood.

Haywood and Blatche should have been our core. You can add pieces around that real quick and be a very good team.

AJ and Gil were our problem and we still have on of those problems.

I totally disagree with you. I think AJ & Caron were our problems. I think Gil can fit with this group. I agree that Wood wasnt a major problem and Ive hyped him more than anyone on any Wiz site but lets not act like he is the best thing since slice bread. No matter what I wanted him gone anyways because I think its time for Javelle to play. I never thought we should resign him after the season because McGee's upside is far far far far greater.

Someone also said the same thing to me about the Cavs being 0-3. That is a joke. He didnt even play in the 1st game. He went 0-12 just trying to fit in which was a clear fluke. Today they lost on the road to the defending EC champs but AJ started the 2nd half, had like a +13 rating and they were in the drivers seat until he got in foul trouble. I havent seen anything to make me think they will regress. All I see is them getting in sync soon and killing it. How can you not put Caron in that group? Caron doesnt fit Flip's sytem. He wouldve been garbage here no matter what. You cant just think that everyone will play good in every situation. He was the worst player on our team this year in terms of what they are supposed to be. He doesnt fit Flip's system at all so he had to go. The only guy who maybe didnt is Wood and again, at his best he's 9 & 10. McGee gets that even when he looks lost. No way should we waste money on him when we have McGee and can sign a big in the Offseason who is better

Too bad Washington couldn't have beat Toronto to be 3-0 without Jamison or Butler.

At this point let either player say what he wishes. The Wizards are better off already.

Jamison and Caron throwing everyone but themselves under the bus? Naaaaawwww can't be. Our great team leaders who led us to great records the last two years without Gilbert bailing them out. F them both. Especially no D Antawn. Caron, I like him, he just sounds bitter that his skills are diminishing. What you didn't see on TV was how Antawn would pout live at games when he felt he was "unfairly" taken out and when things wouldn't go his way. Such a joke that people called him "team leader". Leader doesn't take shots at everyone else while never looking at himself in the mirror or owning up this own mistakes and shortcomings.

jamison and butler are now both 4th options, about where they belong. dallas has dirk/terry/kidd with the ball the majority of the time and cleveland has shaq/lebron/mo. They should be able to do some things with their new teams. Jamison does fit well in cleveland's offense, but we all know he can go cold and his BBIQ/shot selection isnt good either. But what really hurts cleveland with jamison in is that Orlando and the Lakers have great stretch 4s who can put the ball on the floor. At best, I see him as having about an even impact in a long series against LA or the magic because Odom and Lewis can expose his defense.

dlts20 wrote:

hands11 wrote:Ok, your crazy.

First off, Cleveland is 0-3.

Yes, Dallas is 3-0 but you know what, we could have been 3-0 also if we just moved AJ and kept Haywood and CB to play with AB. What we are missing is a PG to play with them. I don't see where we added that while what we did is loose a center.

And while I liked the last few games, there is no way you can convince me we are better off without Haywood over adding AT, Singleton and Josh. AT and Singleton are back ups on a good team. Haywood is a top center on a good team. I can see the Josh trade for CB just to chance scenery for both or not. Both want to shoot. Josh is more athletic but more of a loose nut.

I will enjoy watching the Crabs loose and Dallas win but lets not make it out like we are better off without Haywood.

Haywood and Blatche should have been our core. You can add pieces around that real quick and be a very good team.

AJ and Gil were our problem and we still have on of those problems.

I totally disagree with you. I think AJ & Caron were our problems. I think Gil can fit with this group. I agree that Wood wasnt a major problem and Ive hyped him more than anyone on any Wiz site but lets not act like he is the best thing since slice bread. No matter what I wanted him gone anyways because I think its time for Javelle to play. I never thought we should resign him after the season because McGee's upside is far far far far greater.

Someone also said the same thing to me about the Cavs being 0-3. That is a joke. He didnt even play in the 1st game. He went 0-12 just trying to fit in which was a clear fluke. Today they lost on the road to the defending EC champs but AJ started the 2nd half, had like a +13 rating and they were in the drivers seat until he got in foul trouble. I havent seen anything to make me think they will regress. All I see is them getting in sync soon and killing it. How can you not put Caron in that group? Caron doesnt fit Flip's sytem. He wouldve been garbage here no matter what. You cant just think that everyone will play good in every situation. He was the worst player on our team this year in terms of what they are supposed to be. He doesnt fit Flip's system at all so he had to go. The only guy who maybe didnt is Wood and again, at his best he's 9 & 10. McGee gets that even when he looks lost. No way should we waste money on him when we have McGee and can sign a big in the Offseason who is better

We are here to agree and disagree so that cool.

I said Wood was the keeper. CB was marginal in a swop. New face with Josh.

But I totally think Gil was a major problem in the past and still is.

Players needed to get move in this order... AJ, Gil, CB with Haywood not even on the blocks.
McGee needs to play but we are a professional basketball team trying to win and winning would be a lot easier with Haywood. Again, he is a top 5 center on a winning team. If Dallas goes deep again, that will only prove that face even more.

As for hyping Wood more than anyone... I don't think so. I have been hyping the dude since year two when most fans called him Brenda and Hands Of Stone. Same deal with me and Dray.

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:Too bad Washington couldn't have beat Toronto to be 3-0 without Jamison or Butler.

At this point let either player say what he wishes. The Wizards are better off already.

I feel you for us having a different team because Blatche gets starting minutes at PF but that was about moving AJ.

Are we better without Haywood. NO.

VictorPage44 wrote:jamison and butler are now both 4th options, about where they belong. dallas has dirk/terry/kidd with the ball the majority of the time and cleveland has shaq/lebron/mo. They should be able to do some things with their new teams. Jamison does fit well in cleveland's offense, but we all know he can go cold and his BBIQ/shot selection isnt good either. But what really hurts cleveland with jamison in is that Orlando and the Lakers have great stretch 4s who can put the ball on the floor. At best, I see him as having about an even impact in a long series against LA or the magic because Odom and Lewis can expose his defense.

Whats going to kill Cleveland are two things.

They lost Z.
And AJ is a 13M bench player with 2 more years on his contract and he is 33 and cant play D.

Cleveland is hosed.

Ya know, it wasn't like Jamison went out and said this to the media. It was Lebron that said "Jamison said...", and we don't even know what context it was said in. Most likely it was said in a joking way to Lebron, who for some reason decided to share it publicly. This was not Jamison deciding to take shots at his old team through the media

Second, as for who to blame for what went wrong. Personally, I don't think anybody is to blame per se. The individual pieces didn't fit. The chemistry wasn't right. I think we can spread blame all around to the leaders at the top (Jamison, Arenas, Butler) to the young guys off the bench (Blatche, Young, McGee) to the coaching staff (EJ, Tapscott, Saunders) to the guy who ultimately put this team together (Grunfeld) to various outside factors (injuries being the main one).

But as far as individuals, I think Jamison is one of the last guys to blame. He left here with a PER of around 18. Before he started to wear down in mid January, his PER was around 21. Jamison is what he always was. His level of play never really changed.

He shot 17 times per game this year. The only year he shot less than he has per game was in 2006/2007 when he shot 16.5 shots per game. He's the same player he always was.

The biggest reason he doesn't get assists is the same reason he hardly ever turns the ball over. It's because he doesn't create for himself or for others. He doesn't take defenders off the dribble. He's a jump shooter, he's a rebound and put back guy, he's a post player with extremely quick hands and quick release. Again, he's the same player he always was. He didn't suddenly become selfish with his play unless you thought he was selfish when this team was winning.

Over the course of his Wizards career, his on/off court ratings have been as follows:

+7.5, +9.9, +6.5, +14.7, +0.1, +3.9

A couple weird outliers there, but it's obvious we were better with him on the court than we were off of it. Despite his poor defense, his offense more than made up for it.

And hands, I've seen you refer to him as a bench player numerous times and I don't get it. He's more than good enough to be a starter on a championship level team and I think you'll see him replace Hickson in Cleveland's starting line-up any day now.

And while his contract isn't a good one, especially for a team in our condition, have you seen some of the other contracts handed out by teams the past few years?

Hedo Turkoglu got a 5-year, $53 million deal coming off a season in which he put up a 14.82 PER. Rashard Lewis got a max deal after coming off a season in which his PER was a little better than 16. Just a couple out of what are many examples of contracts worse than Jamison's.

hands11 wrote:

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:Too bad Washington couldn't have beat Toronto to be 3-0 without Jamison or Butler.

At this point let either player say what he wishes. The Wizards are better off already.

I feel you for us having a different team because Blatche gets starting minutes at PF but that was about moving AJ.

Are we better without Haywood. NO.

Wizards are certainly not better defensively without Haywood.

Early in games, with Blatche/McGee I think they could be better in transition and much more potent offensively.

The only positive about Haywood not being with the team IMO is there's a 7'0", 22-yr old prospect who has averaged 11 points, 7 rebounds, and 2.3 blocks over 22 minutes the last 3 games. He's just getting started if Flip actually allows him to develop. McGee's much better at finishing than Haywood. If you look back at Haywood at age 22 you'll see he wasn't as good then as McGee is now.

Wizards should have gotten more for Haywood. You're absolutely RIGHT hands, they're not as good without Brendan. Dallas is going to love him more than Butler.

But that's a done deal. I'm happy with the new faces having an opportunity. Now the losing doesn't even have the same sting.

hands11 wrote:

VictorPage44 wrote:jamison and butler are now both 4th options, about where they belong. dallas has dirk/terry/kidd with the ball the majority of the time and cleveland has shaq/lebron/mo. They should be able to do some things with their new teams. Jamison does fit well in cleveland's offense, but we all know he can go cold and his BBIQ/shot selection isnt good either. But what really hurts cleveland with jamison in is that Orlando and the Lakers have great stretch 4s who can put the ball on the floor. At best, I see him as having about an even impact in a long series against LA or the magic because Odom and Lewis can expose his defense.

Whats going to kill Cleveland are two things.

They lost Z.
And AJ is a 13M bench player with 2 more years on his contract and he is 33 and cant play D.

Cleveland is hosed.

Its all good homie. We both just want the best for the team and basically I think we agree that everything is still up in the air at this point. I think Gil would do well with this team but I wouldnt be shocked at all if you were right. I think McGee needs to play to get better. I think weve been talking about winning and that was our excuse to play the vets but I dont think the young guys will ever shine unless they get a bigger role. Its just like what I just said about Gil though. I think McGee can be a beast for us but if he's a guy that needs to be a backup for a couple more years like you said then I also wouldnt be shocked at that.

Either way I think we both agree that its been so boring around here and atleast this had livened things up for better or for worst, lol

dlts20 wrote:I think AJ & Caron were our problems. I think Gil can fit with this group. I agree that Wood wasnt a major problem and Ive hyped him more than anyone on any Wiz site but lets not act like he is the best thing since slice bread. No matter what I wanted him gone anyways because I think its time for Javelle to play. I never thought we should resign him after the season because McGee's upside is far far far far greater.

Someone also said the same thing to me about the Cavs being 0-3. That is a joke. He didnt even play in the 1st game. He went 0-12 just trying to fit in which was a clear fluke. Today they lost on the road to the defending EC champs but AJ started the 2nd half, had like a +13 rating and they were in the drivers seat until he got in foul trouble. I havent seen anything to make me think they will regress. All I see is them getting in sync soon and killing it. How can you not put Caron in that group? Caron doesnt fit Flip's sytem. He wouldve been garbage here no matter what. You cant just think that everyone will play good in every situation. He was the worst player on our team this year in terms of what they are supposed to be. He doesnt fit Flip's system at all so he had to go. The only guy who maybe didnt is Wood and again, at his best he's 9 & 10. McGee gets that even when he looks lost. No way should we waste money on him when we have McGee and can sign a big in the Offseason who is better

This all sounds like exactly what I would have said, had I said.

And I especially agree about not resigning Haywood and letting Gee go get 'em.

Man, y'all are reacting like a bunch of PMSing women. He said what?! Oh no he di'n't!

Jamison didn't take a jab at the Wizards -- he made a private joke to a new teammate, which that teammate the repeated to the cameras as a humorous way of dismissing Jamison's poor shooting in his first game with the team.

TheSecretWeapon wrote:Man, y'all are reacting like a bunch of PMSing women. He said what?! Oh no he di'n't!

Jamison didn't take a jab at the Wizards -- he made a private joke to a new teammate, which that teammate the repeated to the cameras as a humorous way of dismissing Jamison's poor shooting in his first game with the team.

Butler made his comments for the record, and I think people would not have such a strong reaction to Jamison's and Butler's comments if the "throwing others under the bus" and lack of personal accountability aspects did not seem so familiar. I understand ingratiating themselves into their new situations, but there's a bit of baggage behind the comments. Plus, Jamison's comment came as a quote from Lebron, which was somehow worse than hearing it from Jamison himself.

Whatever comments Haywood makes will probably be 100% accurate, without any aggravating slant. Hopefully, I won't dwell on this for long.