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Seriously, what have we got to lose? We're NOT making the playoffs. Mike Miller is gone by season's end either way, and is not in our future plans.

Let's see what the kid can do. Guarantee him 25-30 minutes the rest of the way, let him plays through his mistakes, and lets see what type of production we get. If he lays an egg, good at least we know for sure that he's not good enough and we need to trade him. But i haven't given up on him yet.

He is still a tremendous talent, and has all the makings to be a very good player in this league. He's clearly having some issues mentally, and that's come to be expected for any young player playing on a short leash and waiting to be yanked out of the game when he makes a mistake.

How many of us wanted Andray traded a month ago when he was struggling? Look at what a starting role and guaranteed minutes can do for a young guys confidence.

We've got NOTHING to lose at this point. If he costs us games, who cares? Atleast we'll know for sure he can't play at this level and we can trade him with no regrets. Plus, more ping pong balls can't hurt I just don't want to see him traded for peanuts and then blow up on another team.

Thoughts?

Mosca wrote:Seriously, what have we got to lose?

Some semblance of an offensive structure that allows us to develop our young bigs.

Hoopalotta wrote:

Mosca wrote:Seriously, what have we got to lose?

Some semblance of an offensive structure that allows us to develop our young bigs.

I don't see how playing Nick more will jeopardize our bigs development. He's trigger happy in the role hes been given now. Basically a gunner off the bench (like Juan Dixon). He was passing the ball a little better when he was in a starting role earlier in the year, and he was playing some good defense too. Remember when he shut down and outplayed Wade? He averaged 12.3 ppg on 44% shooting in about 25 minutes per game as a starter during that stretch.

Mosca wrote:I don't see how playing Nick more will jeopardize our bigs development. He's trigger happy in the role hes been given now. Basically a gunner off the bench (like Juan Dixon). He was passing the ball a little better when he was in a starting role earlier in the year....

If I actually believed that Nick was capable of running the offense, I would agree with you, but I have seen nothing from Nick here to make me think he's going to get us in our sets, run a pick and roll, drive n' dish or get the ball inside. My view is that he's regressing and barely qualifies as being a 'guard' and it's hard for roles to be established with Nick in there.

Besides, we already have Thornton as our designated 'my pants are on fire, but I'm 'a gonna score the rock anyway' guy.

....and he was playing some good defense too. Remember when he shut down and outplayed Wade? He averaged 12.3 ppg on 44% shooting in about 25 minutes per game as a starter during that stretch.

I agree that his defense can be pretty nice.

We've got two point guards that shoot too much and a shooting guard (Miller) that won't shoot enough. I'm beginning to think that Young will be gone after this season, but on the off chance that there is some sort of psychological block that he might play through, I don't see the long term harm in giving him the starting role or at least more consistent minutes. What if it turned out that Livingston was his savior, and all he needed was someone to look for him on the run?

can't find the right thread so i'll just post here...

If Miller isn't going to shoot, why play him at all? Doesn't DMAC do what Miler does, but with defense? or did flip entirely forget that we have Maguire at all?

and i'm sure this thread was instigated on by that nifty video that someone else posted of the Young/McGee/Blatche highlights. Young certainly did look good in that video, Crittenton too. I think Young, Blatche, and McGee have a real tight bond going on right now. The three of them have great chemistry, and I think if left on the floor with carte blanc, the selfish ball that N1 is usually prone to will evaporate.

If i'm the GM, i would take all of this into consideration. Trading young is a lose-lose situation. Young will never fulfill his potential, and we lose a capable sg (albeit backup at this point.) Miller is NOT going to shoot the ball, so he should be cut. Foye is a backup at best, at eiter guard position. Thornton is good enough at SF to compete and make Howard's resigning less of a priority. McGee has taken strides in the right direction, and has a good shot of being an acceptable C within the next 3 years.

Also, arenas coming back will throw a monkey wrench in our future plans. it's clear that Blatche and McGee are playing better with more minutes, but more importantly they're playing better without the big 3 out there playing the vet trump card. Arenas coming back will stagnant our offense, make it perimeter oriented again, and diminish the effectiveness of Blatche/McGee.

I would trade Arenas for pennies on the dollar. If philly was able to flip Iverson, i think we should be able to clear arenas. We just need a young pg in return to hang out with the Blatche/McGee/Young posse and work that chemistry. It's easier to toss oops to your friends, than someone you make grab your bags as a rook.

A 3-way with Minny would make sense. they've got the dollars but not the clout to sign a big name like Bosh, Lebron, or Wade. They desperately need perimeter talent to go with Jefferson/Love. Sessions (used to play at UN-R like McGee but i don't think they coincided) would make a good pickup. the rights to rubio would be an even better one.

the point is, our youth movement means keeping Young, dumping Miller, and dumping Arenas. I think with the emergence of blatche, the potential of McGee and Young, and the prospect of bringing in someone like Sessions or Basketball Gods willing Rubio, we'd have a team >= what they have in OKC.

Re: Trading Arenas

I think it all depends on the package. Conventional wisdom is that Arenas currently has negative value - meaning we'd have to include picks/prospects just to trade him for expiring contracts. If that's the case, then it makes more sense to retain Arenas, at least long enough to see if he can fit in with the "new look" Wizards.

That said, I share your concerns about Arenas being the right PG for this roster. If we can trade Arenas outright for raw cap space and/or 2011 expirings, then I'd pull the trigger. I wouldn't even need a young PG in return. I just don't think such a deal is likely to be on the table unless Arenas comes back, plays well and leads this team to some victories. Of course, if that happens, then we won't be so willing to trade Arenas for cap relief.

Nick Young is an offense killer. I've long since given up on him. Well, I never really believed in him from the start so maybe I'm biased.

I wish we could have dumped him a deadline. Outside of Gil, he's our worst contract.

I think the Wiz have given up on him as well. The next time the Wizards make a trade, I'd expect to see Young's name included.

Dat2U wrote:Nick Young is an offense killer. I've long since given up on him. Well, I never really believed in him from the start so maybe I'm biased.

Add me to that list of folks who never thought Young would amount to anything. At this point dealing him on draft night for a second rounder would be a steal IMO.

Yep. Add me as well. I don't think you can point to Blatche and McGee as examples of why management should give Young more time to develop. Blatche always displayed a lot of skill, talent and smarts...it was his motor and work ethic that raised questions. McGee's athleticism is off the charts and although he is still learning the game, he has shown flashes of being able to be scorer and a big time defensive big. In addition, big men are supposed to take longer to develop so management needs to be patient. In comparison to Young and McGee, Young has shown that he doesn't have much basketball intellect, is a one-dimensional player (scorer) that doesn't even do that well, and is incapable of playing within a structured system. Plus, as it has already been pointed out, SG are supposed to develop much quicker than bigs.

pancakes3 wrote:can't find the right thread so i'll just post here...

If Miller isn't going to shoot, why play him at all? Doesn't DMAC do what Miler does, but with defense? or did flip entirely forget that we have Maguire at all?

and i'm sure this thread was instigated on by that nifty video that someone else posted of the Young/McGee/Blatche highlights. Young certainly did look good in that video, Crittenton too. I think Young, Blatche, and McGee have a real tight bond going on right now. The three of them have great chemistry, and I think if left on the floor with carte blanc, the selfish ball that N1 is usually prone to will evaporate.

If i'm the GM, i would take all of this into consideration. Trading young is a lose-lose situation. Young will never fulfill his potential, and we lose a capable sg (albeit backup at this point.) Miller is NOT going to shoot the ball, so he should be cut. Foye is a backup at best, at eiter guard position. Thornton is good enough at SF to compete and make Howard's resigning less of a priority. McGee has taken strides in the right direction, and has a good shot of being an acceptable C within the next 3 years.

Also, arenas coming back will throw a monkey wrench in our future plans. it's clear that Blatche and McGee are playing better with more minutes, but more importantly they're playing better without the big 3 out there playing the vet trump card. Arenas coming back will stagnant our offense, make it perimeter oriented again, and diminish the effectiveness of Blatche/McGee.

I would trade Arenas for pennies on the dollar. If philly was able to flip Iverson, i think we should be able to clear arenas. We just need a young pg in return to hang out with the Blatche/McGee/Young posse and work that chemistry. It's easier to toss oops to your friends, than someone you make grab your bags as a rook.

A 3-way with Minny would make sense. they've got the dollars but not the clout to sign a big name like Bosh, Lebron, or Wade. They desperately need perimeter talent to go with Jefferson/Love. Sessions (used to play at UN-R like McGee but i don't think they coincided) would make a good pickup. the rights to rubio would be an even better one.

the point is, our youth movement means keeping Young, dumping Miller, and dumping Arenas. I think with the emergence of blatche, the potential of McGee and Young, and the prospect of bringing in someone like Sessions or Basketball Gods willing Rubio, we'd have a team >= what they have in OKC.

I don't think Flip forgot DMAC. I think you forgot DMAC got traded.

Back to the original question. Given the options available and the lack of depth at the wings, if Young starts or gets more minutes, he (usually) brings good defense, he sometimes catches fire, he might have an epiphany (not holding my breath), he might enhance his value in trades, and there are drawbacks to all the other SG options as well.

One downside might be that his minutes hinder the development of a young offense, but it's hard to see how much they would actually develop and how much he could hinder them in the remaining twenty games, especially considering all the unknowns going into next season. The other possible downside is that he plays so poorly that he actually hurts what little trade value he might have, which is perhaps a legitimate concern.

I think he should get another look, for an extended period, for promotional purposes if nothing else.

you want to attempt to make Nick Young valuable, make him a 6th man as opposed to a gunner.

touche, D. next you know i'll be asking why haywood's not getting minutes

Dat2U wrote:Nick Young is an offense killer. I've long since given up on him. Well, I never really believed in him from the start so maybe I'm biased.

I wish we could have dumped him a deadline. Outside of Gil, he's our worst contract.

I think the Wiz have given up on him as well. The next time the Wizards make a trade, I'd expect to see Young's name included.

That really isn't saying much given that the only players whose contracts extend beyond this year include Arenas, Blatche, McGee, and Thornton.

I'm torn on this. Young could have a high return if he figures it out but at the end of the day probably doesn't fit into Flip's offensive schemes. Young has a long way to go although I doubt he comes the catch and shoot player Flip wants him to.

You don't just give young players minutes if they can't demonstrate that they've earned them. The coaching staff has had over 50 games to evaluate its players and guess what? Young can't be trusted with minutes.

Anyway, how are we going to start Young and Thornton?

You've basically got Foye and Blatche to run the offense. Thornton is basically a freelancer like young, but he's a more physical and aggressive version that can score some points inside.

As much as we hate on Miller's passivity, he at least provides some kind of structure which everyone else can work with.

You put Young in there and the whole thing breaks down as everyone's playing outside of their role.

The main reason is because he has fancy dribble handles instead of hardcore grind point guard handles. The kid can't even sprint with the ball to his waist, he has to dribble the ball in front of his body. Secondly, instead of spending hour studying f with flip side by side understanding where all five players are suppose to be in multiple offensive sets, nick is. out thinking about getting fresh hair cut at the barbers. Finally he would get more playing time if he was actually 41 inches off the ground on his release or if he had the dribbling skills to dribble away from his body with a forearm ramming him and still be able to powerthrough the forearm keeping a live controlled dribble and knowing how to make sharp passes to the open spot when he gets doubled on a drive. The kid just isn't strong enough to power through in the air and make an acrobactic layup. Not enough upper body strenght and he always looks wimpy after getting fouled like he is in so much pain. He needs a vmax 40 lb tailorized basketball weight vest and he needs to study josh howard tape ten hours a day.

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