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I was just watching the Wizards game earlier tonight versus the Jazz. I was thinking like on a lot of those players... offensive players didn't know where other people were. Defensively we were having problems, and, people seemed lost. I'm starting to think that it's not a talent issue but this is a problem that could be easily fixed. It's not about having enough energy on the court.

I think players need to talk to each other more, and, give signals, and not just shoot the ball the first moment they get the chance to. I saw a bit better communication in the 4th quarter... but like I have to ask the question: is communication and the lack thereof the cause of all our problems? What do you think?

I saw the title and thought you were talking about the country or maybe about people on the board.

That's a big problem, and nothing new either, if you ask me. Like playing defense and passing the ball around, general communication and both offense and defense seems like something that some teams do much better than others, and McGee and Young particularly could pay more attention to verbal and non-verbal cues of their teammates. Not the cause of all the problems (more talent would solve a few problems), but certainly a big factor.

Of course it's a talent issue.

No one in that starting lineup is starter material on a real professional basketball team except for Blatche, and maybe Miller. McGee, Foye, and Thornton are all bench/role players on quality teams. Nick, Linvingston, Oberto and the rest of the roster are 14-15 men on a solid squad.

Sure, you can point at random issues like communication, slow rotations, etc, but what it boils down to is that the Wizards don't have the talent to compete.

yungal07 wrote:Of course it's a talent issue.

No one in that starting lineup is starter material on a real professional basketball team except for Blatche, and maybe Miller. McGee, Foye, and Thornton are all bench/role players on quality teams. Nick, Linvingston, Oberto and the rest of the roster are 14-15 men on a solid squad.

Sure, you can point at random issues like communication, slow rotations, etc, but what it boils down to is that the Wizards don't have the talent to compete.

I'd agree on the talent comment but also add attitude. Its pretty clear that the team isn't really interested in putting forward the effort to even keep it close right now. They're just punching the clock and counting down the games at this point.

yungal is right. We're trotting out a team one true starting-quality player (Blatche), a sixth man type (Miller), a handful of 8-10th men (McGee, Thornton, Foye, Singleton), and scrubs that could be out of the league next year without anyone blinking an eye. It's pretty hard to argue that we are not the worst collection of players in the league right now.

If Arenas weren't suspended and Howard hadn't gotten hurt, we'd look much better right now. Not great, but certainly not this bad. It's really that simple. You can point out things like communication and effort and so on, but those alone won't do much of anything without the right base in place to make use of them.

yungal07 wrote:Of course it's a talent issue.

No one in that starting lineup is starter material on a real professional basketball team except for Blatche, and maybe Miller. McGee, Foye, and Thornton are all bench/role players on quality teams. Nick, Linvingston, Oberto and the rest of the roster are 14-15 men on a solid squad.

Sure, you can point at random issues like communication, slow rotations, etc, but what it boils down to is that the Wizards don't have the talent to compete.

I agree with yungal and others about the dearth of talent relative to other teams.

I also want to add that Flip's system of offense sure doesn't seem to generate many points. Also, he's not the type to motivate through positive reinforcement. Season's getting long and the coach is about like the players--not all that good IMO.

I think it has to do with the fact that we have low bball IQ players... Haywood was leading the D here and no one has his experience and savvy to do the same...

I also think our offense will be better of if we had productive guards, especially at point... Nobody is leading the offense, when we get our real starting caliber PG in Gil back (SL is not starting material), watch our offense hit 100+ about every other night...

Blatche is star-caliber player. The only other guy on the team who would start on a 35-win team is Thornton, and that's debatable.

To put it into perspective, a sound argument can be made that Singleton is our third best player right now. Singleton was an 8 minute per game garbage time scrub when he was with Dallas.

I agree with the general sentiments and only add that the team even as it is, is in the state that it is because the coach didn't get it right with the original group of guys that he had so I don't except too-much on the coaching-front either. You combine that with some poor decisions by the GM and you've got a hot mess.

What we've got here is... failure to communicate.

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:

yungal07 wrote:Of course it's a talent issue.

No one in that starting lineup is starter material on a real professional basketball team except for Blatche, and maybe Miller. McGee, Foye, and Thornton are all bench/role players on quality teams. Nick, Linvingston, Oberto and the rest of the roster are 14-15 men on a solid squad.

Sure, you can point at random issues like communication, slow rotations, etc, but what it boils down to is that the Wizards don't have the talent to compete.

I agree with yungal and others about the dearth of talent relative to other teams.

I also want to add that Flip's system of offense sure doesn't seem to generate many points. Also, he's not the type to motivate through positive reinforcement. Season's getting long and the coach is about like the players--not all that good IMO.

No system generates points. Talented players generate points within the framework of a system. Flip's Pistons were 4th, 6th and 6th in Offensive Efficiency. His three previous Minny teams were in the top 6 too. You have to go back nine seasons to 00-01 to when his Wolves were eleventh -- still above average.

It ain't the system, CCJ.

Come on, Fish. It has to be the system. These guys were supposed to be better with Caron, AJ and Haywood gone.

dandridge 10 wrote:Come on, Fish. It has to be the system. These guys were supposed to be better with Caron, AJ and Haywood gone.

They were better when the new guys were first just thrown together with little time to learn any "system" Were we not losing and playing horribly WITH Caron, AJ, & Wood?

sfam wrote:
I'd agree on the talent comment but also add attitude. Its pretty clear that the team isn't really interested in putting forward the effort to even keep it close right now. They're just punching the clock and counting down the games at this point.

Seriously? I don't see that at all. I see a team that's simply overmatched on both ends of the court.

There isn't a player on this squad right now that has the luxury of simply punching in. Every single player on this roster has a career to play for right now.

These guys are lacking basketball IQ and talent.

Lets not forget that we turned over half of our roster 14 games ago, and those that are still here are taking on different roles than they had the first 1/2 of the season. How many practices have they had since the all star break? They have to know the plays to communicate them to each other, and I doubt the new guys have more than a handful of plays down yet.

Lets not forget that we turned over half of our roster 14 games ago, and those that are still here are taking on different roles than they had the first 1/2 of the season. How many practices have they had since the all star break? They have to know the plays to communicate them to each other, and I doubt the new guys have more than a handful of plays down yet.

Problem is basketball iq and talent. Foye is dumb..mike miller is dumb...thornton is dumb...mcgee is dumb...nick young is dumb...boykins is semi dumb

Josh howard and andray blatche..livingston...only ones with above average basketball iq.
Miller and thornton are both uncordinated going one on one combined with lack of basketball iq. Miller is plain lazy. He will make a pass before he even forces his opponent to react to his offensive threat. Mike doesn't even force his man to play defense. I am extremely disappointed with him. He can't post up even though he is 6"9. He can't put the ball on the floor an athletically attack the basket and draw fouls and he has no dribbling skills and agility. He has some lenght on defense but never have I seen him block a shot. He is probably better at defending threes than caron because of his height but outside of that..almost exactly identical. Josh howard was the real deal. We let miller go or sign to a dirt cheap bench contract. Same with foye. Thornton has no coordination when attacking the rim and he misses wide open shots. Low basketball iq. Basically more explosive caron not as good a shooter. Same problem undersized, can't shoot the three, no coordinated acrobatic ability. Thorton is way better rebounder and not a slacker like caron. Livingston is bench pg nice iq but his knee will forever keep him from fighting through screens on defense and I don't want to see another dislocated knee. We need to sign him for three years. The asset with him is the iq that he brings to the game after the game during practice. His leadership andability to see plays before they happen will allow him to indirectly increase the basketball iq of those ariund him. So its crucual to sign him to a multi year contract. Hope we can decline howard and then sign him to a reasonable three year deal. People say miller has a high basketball iq but if you don't have elite handle and you are uncoordinated so no one respect your drives to the basket..mwhats the point. Okur and blatche would look nice. Okur is strong and coordinated and can block shots. Mcgee doesn't even have leg strenght and coordination to elevate with explosiveness off two bounce dribble for a jumpshot. If he had any explosiveness to his legs with a 32 vertical..his release point should be so high that no can block him. But the kid has poor leg strenght balance and coordination. Not as bad as haywood but his movements are crisp, and explosive. He can't just stop on a dime and elevate. Takes him time to gather himself. Again not as bad as haywood. He need a bigman coach that actually understands how to train bigman to become offensively explosive. Wizards organization in general has low iq and cheap with poor longterm strategy for their players. We have some real low iq on our team and flip has failed to coach his player to third and fourth levels of an offense once the initial two plays break down. Mcgee has no idea where his team mates are suppose to be as a play progresses. Same ith nick foye and even miller. We just have low iq basket all players and flips has failed to significantly boost their iq in a short period of time. Coaching failure.

^^^ Why would we need Okur for...??? Oberto is more physical than that dude... We don't need more softness up front...

How exactly is Flip to blame for "not significantly boosting their IQ"...??? You can't magically turn water into wine... Some players never get it... You even say that most players on this team are "dumb"...

And damn, what's your beef with Caron... What has he ever done to you...???

I think the distractions and the losing is really taking its toll on the players. I think we have a lot more talent than we have showed recently.

I'm not sold that Blatche is a star yet. He's generating star numbers on a definitively non-star team. But I like the emotion he's showing, he intensely wants to get better and he's getting better.

McGee is the next best player in terms of talent. He has got to learn how to play good defense. He seems like a smart guy so he may get it eventually.

Again in talent terms, after McGee is N1, but he's not emotionally into it. Flip is failing to get through to him, but only in the sense that Flip tells him "do x, y, and z and you will be fine" and N1 is not doing it.

I think Thornton is better defensively than Butler, and he has a pretty jumper when he shoots it in rhythm. Not as good a player overall but I wouldn't necessarily kick him to the bench.

Miller is also having mental issues.

Foye is a backup two. Livingstone is at least a backup pg. Singleton is a backup four. Add an all-star pg to this team, either with Gil coming back or pick one up in the draft, and we are ok. Assuming we are set at pg we could pick up a two in the draft and move Miller to the three, or pick up a three and leave Miller at the two.

Gil, Miller, top ten draft pick, Blatche, McGee. That's what we have to work with. I think it's doable. If McGee figures things out and Gil comes back healthy and mature we could compete for a championship.

I think we have to consider mcgee a bench player. He is way to soft mentally to play center. Mcgee will avoid going for a rebound if he expects contact. I see his ceiling as good change of pace big coming off the bench but he has no passion for playing physical defense. Singleton, a smaller man with same frame is the exact opposite.
Miller is a bench player. A guy who comes off the bench to shoot the three and that it. He has no post up ability against smaller players and he is extremely uncoordinated off the dribble going to the basket.
Thornton just isn't that coordinated going to the hole. He has poor handles and he isn't that acrobatic in the air when attacking the rim. Caron butler with rebounding. Same size issues. Butler had better handles but even worse acrobatic ability than thornton.